Premium. Is there a more alluring and misunderstood word in the world of vehicle branding? Occupying the rung just below “luxury,” — a category it’s often mistaken for, as language is malleable — premium concerns itself with value. Higher price, (presumed) higher quality, and, most importantly, a higher level of desirable content. All of these things give a premium product value. And there’s value in being seen in a premium vehicle, too, though maybe not as much as a true luxury vehicle.
Rolling up to the club in a Genesis G80, only to find yourself surrounded by Bentleys, Rollers, and Ferraris, would fill anyone with pangs of self-doubt. You’re not likely to impress anyone in that bathroom lineup with talk of the safety suite and ventilated leather you got for $10k less than the Germans.
As brand experts will tell you, luxury is more about the brand name (and what it brings to the table) than the functionality of the product. It’s about wants, not needs. With premium gear, buyers are looking to score themselves the trappings and quality everyone desires, only at a reduced price. There’s the value argument again.
With a solid tier of premium brands seeking your attention — a field Mazda apparently hopes to join — which premium automotive brand fails the hardest at actually being premium?
There’s numerous elements to consider, but the biggies are price, content, and cachet. Some brands have all three (it’ll vary depending on which model you’re looking at), others come up short.
Maybe the features you crave are only attainable after inflating the vehicle’s MSRP by that of a subcompact car; perhaps the brand itself, despite offering decent content for a competitive price, has seen some of its lustre rub off in past years.
It can be argued that Lincoln and Cadillac, once shiny beacons of luxury motoring, as well as brands everyone wanted to be associated with, now reside in the premium class. Confusingly, Cadillac offers a Premium Luxury trim. Mmm … okay. For the sake of this exercise, these two shall be deemed premium, joining the likes of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Buick (yes, Buick), GMC, Genesis, Alfa Romeo, and whatever other brand you feel deserves the label. Maybe Mazda exists on your list. Hey, newcomers are allowed; it’s up to the automaker to prove its premium worthiness, and it’s the consumer’s privilege to throw the label back in the OEM’s face.
As you’ve got no shortage of brands, models, trims, and packages at your disposal here, I won’t pollute the conversation with my own choices. There’s plenty of argument fodder here already.
So, have at it, B&B. Which premium brand does the worst job at being a “premium” automaker?
[Image: Acura]
Chinese built Volvos, and I don’t think it’s particularly close.
I do not know how many China Built Volvos end up in North America but I would guess it is a pretty small number, not really sure Volvo gets the hate it does, it seems their China owners have mostly left them alone and gave them cash to continue making cars. Perhaps you would prefer them to go the Saab route and make cars in good European countries but go out of business.
I believe every S90 in North America is now made in China although I’m not 100% certain. So whatever the sales figures for that car are.
The S90 is beautiful inside and out, but I’d rather not take the chance on a 160 hp/L twin-charged engine in a Chinese built vehicle, simply based on my experience with Chinese machinery. I think it’s pretty cynical to try to pass that off as premium.
I just looked it up, I know the long wheel based model was made in China for the s 60 and the S90 ( called Inscription think) but did not know the for this year the S90 inscription is now the base model so you are correct all S90’s I think come from China. Well I am positive Buick sells more china made product here than Volvo you are right on the S90, I think the volvo wagon and cut are either made here or Europe.
XC60 made in China
I was coming here to suggest Volvo holds the tin crown. They’ve never been luxurious or elegant, and now they’re China-tainted, exclusively four cylinders. and somewhat embarrassing to be seen in. Who wants to have to explain to everyone who knows something about cars that theirs isn’t one of the volume models made in China and that lots of real eurotrash cars also have time bomb drivetrains?
Once upon a time, people looked down their noses at the idea of a luxury car made in Germany. Then they looked down their noses at the idea of one made in Japan. Then they looked down their noses at the idea of one made in Korea. Now they look down their nose at the idea of one made in China.
If the product’s good, it’ll succeed. If it isn’t, then it will fail. Point taken about the unknown reliability of Volvo drivetrains, but time will tell.
I have been around long enough to see that whole progression.
Germany didn’t hit the luxury point until the late 60’s early 70s MBZ S class.
In the 50s the joke was that everything made in Japan came from recycled beer cans. Over the next 20 years came world class optics then electronics and then autos.
During this period for the most part American Corporations invested very little in R&D and quality control for consumer products. They didn’t stay in touch with their customers’ tastes. The result is what we see today.
Volvo itself has already weighed in on their thoughts on the longevity of their new cars and SUVs. They’ve changed their CPO program from a 7 yr/100k mile warranty to a 5 yr/unlimited mile warranty.
In other words, they’re saying that after year 5, their confidence in their engineering prowess isn’t so high. If they’re not feeling great about it, why should buyers feel any differently?
@jkross22…
Ding ding. A CPO Volvo (particularly a S60 wagon) WAS an attractive idea. WAS.
Let’s put this misconception to bed right away. Everyone knew Mercedes-Benz was back to their pre-WWII premium ways when the 300 S luxury sedan reached production in 1951 and then Mercedes-Benz proceeded to effortlessly dominate the top classes of international competition until the accident at LeMans in 1955. After that, everyone who knew anything about cars knew that 300SLs were the top expression of the automobile. The only people in denial of what a big Mercedes meant in the ’50s were in Detroit. The 600 launched in 1963, and nothing else could even pretend to compete during its entire eighteen year run. The only people looking down their noses at German luxury were people who were rightly angry about WWII.
Japanese cars were once considered a joke, both because of WWII and because they were tiny and derivative for years. By the time the Acura Legend launched in 1986, nobody was laughing. Detroit was running on Pepto-Bismol, the French and Italian were driven into the sea, and Saab was soon in the hands of GM. Japanese cars were known to be the best and people were just looking for ways to spend more money on them. Lexus was even better received.
Korea is meeting some resistance to their efforts to launch luxury products. They still haven’t made anything that holds up all that well since Kia stopped assembling Mazdas. Hyundai Genesis sedans are now some of the worst used cars you can buy. If they can afford to subsidize the leases and figure out what to do with the cars when they’re turned in, they will look like players in this field. That’s what the Germans do now too.
China is running before anyone has been convinced by their walk. Nobody has been surprised by how much more dependable and fun to drive their Chinese econobox was than the Impalas it replaced. Nobody is so dazzled by Chinese consumer goods that they’re hungry for a car as superior as their Chinese-designed camera or wristwatch.
Hyundai Genesis sedans are the worst used cars you can buy?
Based on what?
I think Hyundai, Genesis, and Hyundai Genesis are among the BEST used cars you can buy. They depreciate like a rock, and actually have good build quality. I don’t think there’s a better value out there than a CPO Hyundai, a CPO Genesis, or a CPO Hyundai Genesis.
+1, arach. I’d love to know why a Genesis is such a lousy car to buy used.
They combine the complexity of a luxury car with the quality materials of a Fiat. They disintegrate. Stuff fails that even a former Mini Cooper owner is surprised by. I haven’t seen one in the past three years that was on its first alternator, and replacing them is a four figure job at retail rate. They also have cooling systems that fail earlier than BMW’s. A five year old Genesis is as likely as a fifteen year old Cayenne to have filtered down to someone who can’t afford to maintain it, let alone fix it.
It’s Todd. He’s the most jaded person on TTAC. The only things I’ve only ever seen him praise are some older or high-dollar Japanese vehicles and the way he talks about most cars makes one think they’ll leave you destitute from buying one.
I don’t doubt his experiences as a mechanic, but he’s like an ER doctor or long-time beat detective at this point. All he knows is horrors.
None of what Todd’s saying seems backed up by sources like CR. Looks like one year had some issues, but aside from that, this doesn’t look like an unreliable car by any means. Ownership satisfaction looks high for pretty much the entire run.
I guess when all you see is the ones that have blown up, you assume all of them blow up.
The only thing “SAD” about Genesis is all the CPO ones in my area are 3.8 naturally aspirated V6 models. It is easier to find a V8 K900 round her than a V8 Genesis.
The 3.8’s a long way from bad, though. Have you tried it out?
Loved the interior. Lots of nice, easy to use buttons and switches. The thing feels very well built.
My main problem with the Genesis was that it just wasn’t very exciting to drive. But if you’re in the market for a big, not-too-cushy sedan, this one would be a good deal.
You guys should definitely act on your convictions and buy sedans powered by the Tau V8. The best values will be the ones with 100K miles. It is true that my sample size is tiny relative to the number of Triton 5.4 V8 F150s I’ve seen, for example. That’s why its funny that I’ve been able to guess that a customer was talking about a Genesis just by the problems they were experiencing. Whatever. Buy and enjoy.
I’ve known two experienced mechanics who have relatively high opinions of Hyundai/Kia. I don’t understand it, and all they can say to defend it is that the makes every other decent mechanic in the world reveres aren’t as great as is thought. I believed the hype about a decade ago, and people who trusted my opinion paid the price. Nobody’s cars have improved in durability since then, and Hyundai’s maybe least of all.
Agreed with Mike on the 3.8, at least in the Genesis G80. Plenty of power where you need it for that kind of car. The V8 seems like it would be overkill for such a cruiser.
“They depreciate like a rock”
Why is that if they are so beautifully built? I know that Hyudai/Kia are cheap by just sitting in them and enjoying interior quality.
Yeah, so much “resistance” that the Genesis/G80 was regularly the 3rd best selling RWD midsize lux sedan (after the E Class and 5 Series).
And Kia’s reliability IMPROVED once they started switched from using Mazda to Hyundai components.
I cant argue with that, I enjoyed most of my older Volvos (90-95) but I would never call them “luxurious”,most were too slow, way too cheaply made interiors, and not enough silly gadgets. Then you had the unreliable engines in the upper-market models (all of them but the 8V Redblock and the turbo).
Jumping from my 240 to a ’96 Concord (let alone a few Japanese cars from that time) was a night and day difference in interior quality and space. None of the cars had the 240s neat “vintage” feel, but they were much quicker and quieter on the freeway.
The newer ones might be made in China but at least they’re better at pretending to be luxury cars. Though I cant see them going for 300,000 miles.
Toddy, even in Brazil, which is not a first-world country as you know, Volvo does not have this premium image than Mercedes, Jaguar and BMW, but they are developing a lot, even if it was bought for the Chinese.
“Who wants to have to explain to everyone who knows something about cars…”
Why do I get the feeling you corner people at parties to berate their choice of car? I agree on the Chinese production being an issue, but if Audi can badge most of their cars as 2.0T and not have to answer for anything, I don’t think having a four-cylinder has anything to do with the common public’s perception of Volvo.
You get that feeling because it probably wasn’t the first time you trusted your instincts and said something wrong today. It’s funny that you edited out the part of the sentence that made it clear I was saying that Volvo being Geely’s north American distribution channel is their most objectionable quality. It suggests that you know you’re dishonest for the purpose of being wrong. I’m glad we don’t attend the same parties.
If you’d prefer I was a little less judicious with the editing’
“Who wants to have to explain to everyone who knows something about cars” … “and that lots of real eurotrash cars also have time bomb drivetrains?”
Am I missing something here? Is this not part of one cohesive thought (which, yes, also acknowledges Chinese production, and yes, that’s a point I can agree with you on).
That said, it’s a bizarre framing, that your objections are around having to justify it to some anonymous car person. Looking at it as a car person, have some conviction in your choices – if you feel you know something about cars, and you feel that some specific Volvo was the car you wanted most, stick with that as you can surely justify it (and if you don’t want a Volvo, I don’t think you have to justify that to anyone). As a non-car person, how many do you actually think know that Volvo has some Chinese production, or have any opinion on “time-bomb powertrains?” Given the number of Mexican-built vehicles with Buy Domestic bumper stickers I’ve seen, I think most people are a little ignorant to automotive production, and if the typical luxury buyer was concerned about long-term fragility, the entire luxury market as we know it would implode. Plus, I don’t think the average person puts any stock in the opinions of car people, given how the crossover segment has grown.
Acura all day. Take a Honda and crib BMW marketing. They are only lucky they start with Honda. Ocassionally a sporty car escapes but its the exception
Honda+!
The TSX was just a Euro-Accord, and the TL was a much nicer, bigger Accord.
The TLX will always be outclassed and dated, because two years after its debut, along comes the next Accord!
They’ve needed a distinct sedan architecture for years, but have rested on their laurels. The SUVs are OK (and the RDX is bespoke), but the rest is too little, too late.
Their downfall started when they replaced the Integra (a super-Civic with Accord-level fitment and legendary performance), and replaced it with the Mac-strutted, alphabet soup-named RSX! Then came peak beak on the 2nd-Gen TL, and sayonara! (Of course, the ILX shows how good the RSX was!
Original TSX (European Accord) was a fun car to drive. But luxury? Not even close. Just drive TSX and then A4 – TSX is not even close, still a Honda. New TSX was a garbage, not even fun.
The TSX shamed the A4, especially the FWD A4s. It really wasn’t even close, to the level that bought German shill Car and Driver couldn’t award a comparison test win to the A4 over the TSX. What do you think you mean when you say luxury? Vinyl-laminated cardboard? Felt? Wiring shorts? Understeer? The A4 lover was a marketer’s dream.
While a nice, lengthy debate would be fun- is there really a discussion here? Its Buick. That is the answer.
Now we can debate whose number 2 for a while. I think “Acura”. I say that primarily because if someone bought an Acura or a honda, I see them as interchangeable… IE I don’t feel like Acura is “better”. The rest listed are a bit more “premium” than their mainstream-stablemates
+2
Yep, this exactly:
1: Buick. Which GM fancies to be a Lexus competitor. Its not.
2: Acura. There really is no good reason to buy one over a Honda.
3: Volvo. Not luxurious, high maintenance, and packed with Chinesium.
4: Land Rover. Luxurious until the first service call, its all downhill from there.
I agree Buick is so obviously not premium that there’s a case to be made for removing it from the list. Buick is just the car brand available at GMC dealerships so they have a full product line like the Chevrolet dealerships. Their real premium brand is Denali.
I like Honda cars, but could never justify paying more for an Acura. In my mind Lincoln has the same problem, selling mass market Ford vehicles at a higher price.
Honda Accord actually looks more premium than Acura equivalent whatever combination of letters it is now called.
I would say Alfa, it is not a premium brand , it is a sporty brand but most folks will just see it as a weird Fiat.
I love my Hondas, but the answer is Acura. The only premium that Acura brings to the table is premium gas!
Essentially the same V6 as my beautiful coupe and yet it needs premium? I know I’m wrong but just a bit.
Acura’s sedan lineup needs a revamp. Kill the ILX, replace it with the CDX. Move the TLX and RLX to the new Accord’s platform; equip appropriately. Time is running out. Such a waste.
zactly!
I think the whole “fix Acura” movement is based on remembering how good their stuff used to be. I don’t think that super-Accords will fix it.
@FreedMike – you said Buick is Oldsmobile…
Acura is currently more Oldsmobile than Oldsmobile was on it’s best day.
Oldsmobile with a performance twist. Yep.
Sportyaccordy, Acura can’t fix the “Acura Cake” problem. There’s not much room in the marketplace for cars that are neither price competitive with mass market vehicles nor something people aspire to own like the real luxury brands. People either stretch their budget to lease higher or save their money and buy lower.
Well today if you want a new V6 AWD Honda, that’s not a SUV, then it’s going to be a Acura.
Correct answer! When the ILX appears year after year without a motor, the answer has to be Acura. “Hoisted by their own petard”.
Is Buick considered premium, or higher-end mainstream? Because Buick takes the cake.
Normally I would also say Acura, but since they have the NSX that puts them a bit higher than Buick.
Not going to put Lincoln and Cadillac on this list because they have a few actually desirable vehicles viewed by the mainstream public as premium.
Genesis is too new for me to place where it would end up being in the luxury tier.
Around here Infiniti/Acura are the “I couldn’t afford a Mercedes or BMW or Audi” brand. Lexus somehow seems to escape this unfair generalization.
Buick premium? Ha. They’re still cars for senior citizens. I loved my Buicks btw, but driving a Park Avenue or a Roadmaster meant everyone was out to pass me the first chance they got.
Buick then GMC followed by Acura. Gets a little blurry after that.
I respect Mazda’s enthusiasm, but while their styling and interior materials make the grade, their powertrains and dealership network do not. Call them upper mainstream for now.
I would say judging GMCs by some of the vehicles they share driveway space with I would call them premium. I’ve seen more than a few Denalis sharing driveways with BMW and MB.
Kind of like how Chrysler was shocked to find out after purchasing AMC that lots of XJ Cherokees were sharing driveways with BMWs.
Select models maybe, but the brand is not premium. Ford has as many premium trucks as GMC.
Mazda doesn’t even deserve upper mainstream. They’re a tad below average. Yes, they have premium trims that are pretty nice, but so does everyone else.
Pretty cars though.
At somewhat less than 2% of the US market I’d argue that Mazda isn’t really mainstream. Mazda, however, see’s itself as an upmarket premium brand for what that’s worth.
Unless I’m missing something I don’t see how the answer is anything other than Chrysler. A “premium” brand so bad at being a premium brand that they themselves don’t want to be thought of as a premium brand anymore.
I dunno, maybe I answered my own question?
I’m with you on Chrysler. Unless you want to go all the way back to Imperial (which was still a Chrysler), I don’t see any premium brand that’s less so.
You did answer your own question. No one thinks of Chrysler as being premium, so we didn’t consider them. Thanks for pointing out what we couldn’t see, even though it was right in front of our face.
Chrysler was once premium–in the days when both Plymouth and Dodge existed, they were the top of the line for their company. That disappeared, though, long before it became Daimler Chrysler, much less Cerberus (sp?) and FCA.
Any that wants to charge extra to enable CarPlay and Android Auto. Luxury shouldn’t nickel and dime for features standard on a $15K penalty box.
In descending order:
Lexus
GMC*
Genesis
Jag-yoo-uh
Infinity
Cadillac
Volvo
Buick
Acura
Lincoln
*(because Texas)
Lincoln below Buick and Acura? Just wow! But then you have GMC second, so …
As A Scientist pointed out, Chrysler is so forgettable it didn’t even make your top 10.
Says something when so many (presumably auto enthusiasts) still can spell “Infiniti” correctly.
Brands shouldn’t qualify for this because even “luxury” brands these days sell FICO 500 junk. Perhaps the product should be judged premium vs semi-premium vs luxury?
I seriously doubt anyone with a 500 FICO could even buy a new Hyundai Accent (if they even still make those). BH/PH, yeah.
Absolutely a 500 fico can buy a new car…..
I’m shocked. Is that with like 35% APR ??
I disagree. The question, to me, isn’t whether these guys sell “unworthy” entry level models, but whether there’s anything truly worth aspiring to in the line. We can complain all we want about a brand like Mercedes selling a crap-heap like the CLA, but there’s plenty of stuff on the same showroom floor that’s worth selling a kidney for. Same is true of BMW, to a lesser extent. A luxury brand has to give you a next car to fall in love with.
Then we have Acura, which sells a glorified Civic as the entry model, and graciously allows you to step up to a glorified Accord, a glorified CR-V, or a glorified Pilot (and, no, I don’t include the RL, which no one cares about). Be still, my beating heart. At least the showrooms are pretty nice. No wonder they’re not doing well.
I argue “luxury” brands not selling luxury product is demeaning to them.
Entry level luxury cars are nothing new. Back in the ’80s, Mercedes would sell you a 190 with a four-banger, vinyl seats, a rear compartment that no human could fit in, and a 0-60 time of about three days. Lexus’ original lineup included a glorified Camry. I remember Cadillac selling cars with vinyl seats, AM radios and no A/C. And so on.
But in each case, there was something great for that base-model buyer to move up into, so the model worked.
As someone who’s sat in one, I disagree about the 190’s back seat. It had a more sensible roofline than 2010s sedans do, so rear seat room was OK. (Today’s top three design criteria seem to be in varying order: aero considerations, fore-aft dimension for baby seats, and styling. Headroom is no better than fourth.) My take was that it split the difference between the four-door E30 and the E28 in terms of roominess. Not a limo, and not my first choice for a cross-country trip, but something I’d be fine in for a couple of hours.
My dad owned a 190 back in the day. Granted, he was tall, but even when my mom drove the thing, the back seat was cramped.
We just bought a new Accord Touring and with the level of equipment it comes with Acura seems pretty irrelevant. I do think the new RDX is a good effort of making the brand a little more premium, but they still don’t seem that much better over Honda. The ILX and are outdated and make the newer Honda’s look much more appealing.
Buick is another obvious candidate. The only customers that actually think it’s premium are dying off and there’s no standard for the brand. Look at the models. We’ve got Chinese/Korean SUVs that have okay interiors, German Sedan/Wagon that have cheap looking and little luxury features (no cooled seats for example), and an American sedan/3-row. These at least have the most luxury, but they still seem like nice Chevy’s at the end of the day.
GMC doesn’t really seem premium, but people believe it is and buy up the Denali line, so it gets a pass for me.
Can I add in Jaguar too? This might cause some heat, but I’ve never been that impressed by recent Jag interiors. Especially on lower-end trims. Depressingly dark, terrible infotainment, nothing that makes me think “wow this is better than one of the Germans”.
I shopped for a new car last summer and discovered that the Lexus ES and the Mercedes-Benz E class come standard with a VINYL interior. How “premium” is that?
Actually the MBtex wears well and looks great. Very few will be able to distinguish between this and the optional leather.
MBTex is not the MBTex of old. Maybe its more ‘green’ in composition or ease of recycling, but it no longer holds up better than other vinyl interiors.
Agreed
I have never owned anything with MBTex but the 1970’s BMW vinyl was pretty tough.
Most petrochemical derived materials (tires, containers, panels) have a much shorter shelf/use life than they used to.
Living in sunny California I much prefer a high quality fabric interior over hot leather or vinyl.
When I had the convertible top replaced on my Mustang the upholstery shop was bemoaning the fact that tops barely last 10 years anymore and the old ones lasted longer.
I said: “Yeah but those tops 40 years ago didn’t have to think much about MSDS and worker/environmental exposure.”
Pablo said (yeah I’m on a first name basis): “I never thought of that!”
Mercedes has been selling cars with vinyl interiors since JFK was in office. Back in the day, plenty of “luxury” cars were sold with vinyl seats. I hear you, but this is nothing new.
It looks OK, but doesn’t feel like you’d expect. It’s just like iguana.
+2 to RSF & FreedMike – This phenomenon is just the industry’s deciding to follow the Mercedes model and make vinyl rather than cloth the standard trim for the US market. To further RSF’s point, a lot of automotive leather is so processed that it may as well be vinyl. (I think some brand’s give you the option to upgrade to better leather that’s more akin to leather as it was a generation ago.)
Lexus vinyl, e.g., is pretty nice. I haven’t sampled BMW’s or Cadillac’s, but I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt until I see and touch it firsthand.
The real shame is that good-quality cloth has disappeared from these brands, at least in the US market. In a perfect world, good cloth and good vinyl would both be choices on base trims.
There was a time when vinyl was the extra cost option in lesser brands, but that ship sailed in the 80’s when Velour became the extra cost option over the standard vinyl.
Call me what you will but I’m not buying an expensive vehicle who’s seat material is so similar as to that in my base model trucks, and will likely be less durable than my trucks.
PETA premium, I guess.
#1 Cadillac
#2 Acura
#3 Lexus ES Otherwise known as the Toyota Camry xle+
At my house, Dodge is the premium brand LOL
My new Charger R/T has a $5,900 “Premium” package that includes more “stuff” than you can imagine, and at a sticker price of 45 Grand (which I paid nowhere near) it has pretty much everything you get on vehicles costing tens of thousands more, minus any badge/snob appeal whatsoever. Which I am fine with, I can always drive the Lexus or Jag. But I want for nothing in the Dodge.
To me, a “luxury brand” means the following:
1) A product line that has “aspirational” vehicles in it – there’s nothing wrong with Mercedes selling the CLA per se when they also have a $150,000 S-class AMG sitting ten feet away on the showroom floor.
2) A product line that’s sufficiently differentiated from the manufacturer’s “popular” line.
3) An upscale dealer experience
Based on this, the “winner” here is definitely Buick. The dishonorable mentions are Lincoln and Acura. Lincoln’s improving, but there’s still way too much Ford going on in the dealer experience and product. Acura has generally nice dealers, but the product is all glorified Honda.
And, no, I’m not including Cadillac in this dishonorable list…not yet, anyway. But I fear they’re soon to join the losers.
Overall Lexus has to rank higher than the domestics, because there are chunks of the country that hardly consider the domestics at all, while Lexus is considered desirable as premium everywhere. Disagree with folks not considering Alpha as premium—it is one of the group that, when considered, is always considered at least premium—its problem is the “when considered” part.
My list—
Lexus
Infiniti
Cadillac
Lincoln
Volvo
Alpha
Acura
GMC
Genesis
Buick (barely premium)
Mazda
Ford
Chrysler (not really premium, but name is salvageable, if anyone cared to)
A – L – F – A Darn it. This is a car site for crying out loud. And the Alfas I drove were more premium feeling than the BMWs across the street.
A lot of Buick hate. I will, for the 8 billionth time, mention that I am leasing a ’16 Regal GS. I spent yesterday test driving cars and I have been behind the wheel of about every brand that is in the same segment as the Regal in the last year or so. IS350, TLX, Q50S, and Mazda6 Signature most recently.
While I 100% agree that Buick doesn’t carry the same name weight as the other brands it competes against, but dang, I can’t find anything in my price range that comes close to providing the things that make a car “Premium.” The infotainment system is brilliant, the materials inside are top notch, the steering wheel feels like it costs a fortune and it’s heated, and the seats are comfortable enough to drive across country in complete comfort. Obviously I am looking at used IS350s, but they are contemporary to the year of my car and I find myself wondering what I am getting for the $10-12k premium paying for a similar year Lexus to justify it. Yes, there’s more power but today Premium brands are all going 2.0t. Change it to the current GS and the difference there is eliminated.
I get that being considered a top Premium brand is about more than content and power. But, I’ll say, if you haven’t looked at a Buick recently, you ought to.
And as always, all that said, I won’t be buying my GS at the end of the lease. Though I will consider another new Buick.
The Q50 Red Sport 400 is awfully nice though.
Yes, the Regal is nice, but Buick’s not a premium brand.
If it wasn’t available as a cloth interior blank buttons special, would it be premium?
(Sorry the cloth interior as available in Buicks and how far you have to step up the trim ladder to get heated seats really chafes my hide in Buicks. Just make all that crap standard and I might start to think of you as “premium.”)
I’d say no. Buick is basically Oldsmobile at this point.
The question is not “Is Buick a premium brand or not”. The questions is “Is Opel a premium brand?” The answer is – lately they tried to be premium, just like Mazda does now.
Buick is affordable luxury!
Norm, I rented one of your “affordable luxury” cars – an Encore – this summer for almost a month while my car was in the shop with hail damage.
I respond to your comment thusly:
youtube.com/watch?v=fikv5ByrVyM
I think the new Regal is a big downgrade compared to your version. The interior does not have a premium feel and uses the same crappy GM plastics found in Cruze, Malibu, etc. You can’t even get cooled seats in the stupid thing.
The interior of the 2018 Regal is a big downgrade compared to 2017. I bought a 2017 Regal sports touring with 50 miles on it on clearance in 2018 for $23k. I dont consider Buick a luxury brand mainly because of products like the Encore and Envision
What is PREMIUM? What is LUXURY?
Those words have lost meaning for me in the automotive realm.
I can get a $40K Impala with heated/ventilated seats and a heated steering wheel with the premium of 300 hp. (Cheaper than I .can get the same features in a Lacrosse.)
I can get a freaking Hyundai with a heated back seat.
Toyota has made their safety tech largely standard across the board.
I can get a Kia K900 with a twin turbo V6 as standard (same as a Lexus LS in our current reality.)
WHAT IS PREMIUM? WHAT IS LUXURY?
I’d say it’s something you aspire to. No one aspires to a 300 hp Impala. They do aspire to a 300 hp Lexus. It’s not rational, but buying a luxury car isn’t a rational thing to do in the first place.
I guess I was raised wrong (read – right) in that I can’t figure out why I would buy a Lexus ES 350 over a lesser V6 midsize/full size sedan with the same features for less money.
Back in the day when you had to hit certain brands/price classes to get certain features and toys and pampering in the interior I could but not anymore.
If you approach car buying rationally – and kudos for doing it – then you’re not a luxury car buyer.
But you’re right on target here – the fact that non-luxury cars can be optioned up and perform like a luxury car explains a great deal in the current market.
Interior Colors?? 3 or less options, standard 4-7 choices,premium 7-12 luxury any color you want ultra-luxury
Here’s what I think:
Premium (Best to Worst)– Porsche, Lexus, Benz, BMW, Infiniti, Lincoln, Jag, Rover, Genesis, Cadillac
Non Premium (No particular order) Toyota, Honda, Acura, Nissan, Ford, VW, Buick, GMC, Chevy, Subaru, Mazda, Volvo, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mini, Hyundai, Kia
RSF: Good lists.
Wholeheartedly agree!
Appears to be missing a pretty important brand, Audi.
1. A premium brand should be widely recognized as a premium brand – after all why pay for premium status if neighbors and co-workers don’t notice? Violators of this premium rule in alphabetical order: Acura, Alfa, Buick, Genesis, GMC, Infiniti, Mazda, Volvo, VW.
2. The volume models of a premium brand should offer clearly more luxurious and/or more technically sophisticated vehicles than top-line versions from the platform sharing sister brand: Violators of this premium rule in alphabetical order: Acura, Audi, Buick, GMC, Lexus, Lincoln
3. A premium brand should offer a better dealership experience than mainstream brand. Violators of this premium rule in alphabetical order: Acura?, Buick, Cadillac, Genesis, GMC, Infiniti?, Lincoln, Mazda, VW
Brands that violate all 3 premium rules: Buick, GMC
I’m going to say Buick. Buick’s lineup is an odd collection of misfits orphans and rebadges. There are no unique models or powertrains, or any unique features.
Why not Chrysler? It’s a dead brand so it hardly matters anyway
Why not Acura? Because even though Acura essentially sells rebodied Hondas, they at least try to have unique features like the RL hybrid, the SH-AWD system, and the NSX.
Why not Lincoln? Because even though every Lincoln is a rebodied Ford, Lincolns have totally unique designs inside and out, the push button transmission, unique powertrains like the 3.0TT and the new 3.5 Hybrid system, the Black Label trims, and the recent Continental Coach Edition.
I would totally slap “Buick by Opel” badges on a Regal, along with stripping off the “TourX” badge and putting “ESTATE” on there.
But then my capstone project for my bachelors involved a little known German politician from the interwar period. I’m a geek like that.
Lincoln and Buick are the leaders in this loser category. Why? Because you can buy the same vehicle down the street just with a different badge stuck on it. Thus zero credibility as premium. Acura and Infiniti have products that are only available at their own sort-of nicer stores so they are bit special. Volvo is unique so I consider them a premium brand, even if they are not popular. I owned a Volvo for awhile and it along with the dealership felt up market. Same goes for our current Infiniti despite the fact that I know its a fancy Nissan.
I don’t even consider GMC a brand, to me its just a Chevy with different options. Genesis is too new for me to consider it a luxury product. Mercedes maybe premium here in the states but over in their homeland of Germany they are as common as Fords and used as taxis.
You can buy a Continental down the street with a different badge? You can buy a 400 HP MKZ down the street with a different badge? You can buy a 450 hp Navigator down the street with a different badge?
They share platforms, or versions of them, with Fords, but this is no different than many luxury brands. You might want to update your rationale for hating Lincoln since they started offering things that their Ford equivalents don’t. The days of the MKS are behind and Lincoln has made considerable improvement in distancing their products from Fords, including unique engines and far different interiors.
The brand I’m surprised that has had zero mention so far is Tesla. Many people like to say it is a premium brand. I don’t see it as a premium brand when the Model 3 build quality is no better than an 80’s GM and the content is no better than most mainstream brands. However there is no shortage of rabid fans who keep touting that the model 3 is the best selling premium sedan.
Point taken about build quality, but the same could be said for Ferrari for many, many years. Does anyone consider Ferrari a “non premium” brand?
Tesla is premium because the product is next-level innovative, performs like nothing else on the road, and therefore costs a lot. Pretty much the same argument you’d make about Ferrari, if you think about it.
(But, yeah, Tesla needs to solve its’ quality problems, stat.)
As much as I despise electric cars, Tesla does have an aura of desirability about it. Not to me of course, but Im aware that it exists to a certain type of buyer. Id say Tesla is definitely premium, based on its being aspirational, and its uniqueness. Build quality doesn’t necessarily mean premium…at that point, ‘80’s/‘90s era corollasvan civics are ‘premium’.
Least premium to premium
GMC – Why is this listed?
Buick – A Chevy with nicer interior materials. Not premium
Alfa – Italian Chrysler
Lincoln – Too similar to Ford designs
Acura — Honda with more power and AWD. Seemingly no difference in materials
Infinity – High performance Nissan w/o CVT in most cases (for their sake I hope it stays this way) – so so interior
Cadillac – A nicer GM product but a GM product none the less. Crappy quality especially long term. Escalade is just garbage
Genesis – Seem like premium products. Need to fix the line up for todays market
Volvo – I own them, I love them but it is what it is. Premium in some ways but not all.
Lexus – Quality has dropped over the years but still premium lux
Jag/ LR – Recent entry level market products detract from the whole – interiors in those models needs help
BMW – Again, entry level models really detract. Those interiors are not premium. I believe that they have lost their way with things like electric steering racks, drive by wire and run flats. Living on their reputation right now. Hopefully they get called on it soon and change their trajectory.
Audi – Went through a rough patch with interior materials but seem to have emerged from it. Models look too similar.
Mercedes – Still premium. Even entry models have nice interiors. Disclamer: I own a 2014 ML. good SUV but some missed opportunities. New tech on new models annoyingly complex for simple functions.
Porsche – I just feel that their products have a more “premium” feel to them. They definitely perform that way.
Rolls / Bently – I have no experience but the reputations and brand names hold their own.
Disqualified:
Tesla – No interest so not included
Missed Maserati, not mentioned by anyone, for me would be the Italian Porsche with a ticket in the bentley.
I wouldn’t recognize “premium” if it stranded me the first day off-warranty.
Thy answer is Chrysler – it’s not even close.
Then it’s a three-way race between Acura, Buick and Volvo.
I sort of agree on Chrysler. And it’s their own fault since even though the 300 is as premium and desirable a car as any, they simply aren’t propping it up as the halo that it SHOULD be. That car was all the rage for about 5 years and while it still has the style and substance, FCA seems content to let it sell steadily in a vacuum. I just don’t get it. The brand still has cache, the style, content, and powertrain are all top notch.
Off the subject , but I would prefer the QOTD offered a survey format with the results available after voting. Kinda like every other forum I previously was a member-bimmerforums, e46fanatics, myg37 etc.
Once Honda started offering leather, heated seats,Nav, etc etc and Acura started with crappy style(after 04-08TL) they made themselves irrelevant. I drive Acuras! Except for the MDX they got nothing.
It would be a win win for the consumer if Honda went back to simple and inexpensive with cloth seats and basic radio. You want more? There is Acura on the adjoining lot.
Don’t forget Volkswagen’s Phaeton. Amazing cars, terrible brand image. I still don’t understand why someone as canny as Piëch didn’t simply sell them under the Audi or Bentley brand.
I think Subaru’s Touring trim level on the Ascent and Legacy is as near-premium as you can get without overstepping the line.
Can VW enter as a premium brand? I mean since the quality feels of its materials, the way they drive and the technology applied to its cars?
Acura, Infiniti, Genesis in that order.
Alfa, Volvo, GMC and Buick should not even be on this list.
My personal list of non-luxury “luxury cars”:
Saab: This is more so GM-Saab, the cars themselves werent necessarily bad but they dont strike me as luxurious either, they’re just regular (usually dated) cars with Saab badging and needless gizmos tacked on. Older Saabs I know little about beyond them being temperamental.
Volvo: Once upon a time they made nice fairly simple cars (cheap timing gears aside), in the 70’s they starting making slow but nice cars, around the 80’s they made slow and somewhat nasty Chevy A-body-looking “luxury” cars with the aging 240 in tow, later they made cars that now litter classified ads as “mechanic specials”, now they make over complicated Chinese cars. I’d like to see one compared with whatever Hyundai calls their fancy brand.
Mazda: Unless if they’ve changed drastically in the past 5 years I’ve yet to experience the luxury, and the recent Hyundai-face lift does not help.
Older Diesel Mercedes: Specifically stuff like the W123, it was a third-world taxi cab that was slower than an air-cooled VW (while being just as noisy and smelly) that sold for as much as a Caddy of that time. Classics? I guess, but not luxury. In modern times a car like this would be a joke.
Lots of Buick mentions and a couple of Chrysler. My question: When did Buick and Chrysler become premium brands?
Both have always been in my mind a mid-tier, a little better than a Dodge or Chevy, brand. Full disclosure, I own a Buick and like it very much but in no way feel that it is a premium car, a spectacular value 2nd hand yes.
Volvo is kind of new to the luxury/premium market in my mind. They were the quirky safety folks similar to Saab and they moved themselves up market if only by the sticker price of their offerings.
From a pricing point, how can you tell what is premium and what is not anymore. You can buy a MB for 33k new and a Ford F350 for just about 100k if you check every box. Fun and thoughtful QOTD, but their is so much nuance to each brand it is hard to pin point who is a failure at anyone segment as most are blurring the lines.
Both Buick and Chrysler have been floated as either premium or semi-premium brands in recent years, and were premium way back when. Buick isn’t premium anymore and Chrysler is just…dead.
Since Alpha Romeos look and drive better than the Acura, my vote goes to Honda’s premium brand. Very greyscale and IKEAish are Acuras. Blech!
At the other end of the scale, the “luxury” brands have become so Broughamy in presentation that I find I more appreciate the quiet, clean cut, just-enough premium that Volvo, Tesla (ugly tablets notwithstanding), Buick, and, Mazda bring to the premium category.
A – L – F – A…This is a car blog and we are talking about a legendary marque.
Alpha Romeos has potential as the name of a dating website for hypergamists.
“Alpha Romeos has potential as the name of a dating website for hypergamists.”
+1. To Infiniti and beyond!
I’d say Lincoln or Buick (2nd place).
Volvo to some people too because of the Chinese branding.
There’s “premium” and there’s “luxury,”
Buick is arguably a premium brand, but isn’t luxury.
Same goes for Acura w/ its FWD-based lineup.
Problem for Acura is that its mainstream counterparts gets the updated platform first (so Civic > ILX, etc.) which is backwards (except Honda knows that selling gobs of the Civic, CR-V, Accord, etc. does more for their bottom line than any Acura).
Also doesn’t help that Acura sold what was the Euro Accord as the TSX and a variation of the Civic in Canada as the CSX.
Another problem for Honda is that the brand only exists in limited markets and doesn’t even exist in its domestic market (most Acura models aren’t even available in Japan) and even the NSX is sold as a Honda.
Infiniti suffers a similar plight domestically (altho available in more markets than Acura) and its sedan flagship, the Q70, has not only been sold as Nissans in Japan, but as rebadged Mitsubishis (both the Q70 and Q70L).
Right now (w/ its limited lineup), would place Genesis ahead of Acura.
G70 > ILX
G80 > TLX
G90 > RLX
Once Genesis fills out its lineup, including w/ 3 CUVS, would place it above Infiniti due to the fact that Genesis has a sedan in the flagship segment whereas Infiniti does not (supposedly has an electric flagship on the way) and Genesis will have RWD=based crossovers whereas Infiniti’s are FWD-based.
On the latter basis, in due time, one can even argue that Genesis will supercede Lexus, esp. if Lexus cancels the GS as expected (Lexus already is a predominantly a FWD-sales brand).
Something like the A Class/CLA is premium, not luxury and arguably the C Class isn’t luxury as well (altho its closer than it ever has been) – so a luxury brand can have models which aren’t luxury, just as a premium brand can have a model or 2 which are luxury.
Mazda is trying to be what VW used to be in the US – a more premium mainstream brand.
Lincoln. It’s an insult to real “luxury” or “premium” brands.
Although Lincoln is more of a trim level on a Ford…..not necessarily their own brand…
I don’t know…People will pay 6 figures for one, seems like there is some desirability there. If anyone is buying a six figure Buick it is a several decades old one at Barrett Jackson.
How many multiples of suicide door Continental production does Acura sell NSXs?
Many, but how many fewer do they sell than they projected. It is a bust
Not that the Continental is a smashing success with normal doors. But it does show there is at least some desirability in the name.
If they’d announced they were going to make only 80 Acura NSXs, they’d have sold out in an hour for a million dollars a piece.
Making Lincoln a Ford trim level might not be a bad idea and might save them some money.
Buick is not a premium brand. I believe that its purpose is for BM… I mean GM to have a step up name between Chevy and Cadillac. Want proof of who’s premium? Go down to your local CarMX delear where they let you wander around without adult supervision and sit in a few cars. To me a premium brand is more than just name recognition and marketing. Its more than just initial quality. Its how their products are designed and how they hold up over time. Its how they excel performance wise within their segments. You sit in a Mercedes thats a few years old and then go sit in a Chrysler 300 or Buick LeSabre and you see and feel the difference between what is premium and what disintigrates into a pile of garbage in a few short years.