In an introductory post last week, I detailed a couple of cars I was considering as a replacement to my decade-old Infiniti M. The comments (some filled with unusual anger) prodded me to add another car to the list.
A week later, I can tell you that two of those former options are absolutely out of the question.
The first coupe cancellation was the E350. On Friday, I went to check out a 2017 E400 at a nearby dealer. It was too new and out of my price range, but I wanted to have a look and see if the model was worth pursuing further. After a few minutes of unattended poking around an unlocked car, I had my answer: No.
Doors felt nice and heavy, solid. But upon entering the coupe, the lack of headroom was very apparent for even my six-foot self. Hard leather (or maybe it was synthetic) resided underneath me. Climate control buttons made cheap click-clack sounds when pressed. In the back, the dashboard-type material around the covered cup holder was cracked at two corners. Entirely put off by this quality in a 2017 Mercedes-Benz, I left.
The next day I sampled the Mazda MX-5 (an RF one) which was raised unanimously as the best answer for all questions. I found it loud and buzzy, with accurate steering and a jerky transmission. While the interior was fine from a price point perspective, sloppy seals here and there were required to accommodate the RF’s metal roof. Over my left shoulder, the exposed hinges of the roof were arranged like a metal origami display. At 70 miles an hour, the wind and road noise in the closed cabin was shockingly high. I expected more, and it delivered less. The MX-5 was not for me.
Running out of Saturday afternoon hours, I was on my way to drive a local GS350 when I had another thought — a thought of Infiniti. It dawned on me that I’d driven the high-zoot Red Sport 400 Q60 (too expensive), as well as the economy level 2.0t (bad), but never the standard 3.0t in the middle of the range.
A half hour later, I was looking at the white one shown here. I wouldn’t buy this particular one — it had some bad paint match because of an accident history, and was equipped with unnecessary all-wheel drive. It also lacked the Premium Plus package for navigation (a must have). It was engaging enough to drive, had the sort of quiet isolation I desire, and felt well-made. In person, the looks impressed, as did the power coming from the smooth twin-turbo 3.0-liter. Used market Q60 options will be unfortunately limited by a rear-drive requirement, the navigation which should be standard, and the light colored interior. But the miles and price are right in line.
As of now, just one coupe and one sedan remain as options. The next task will be the test drive of a local GS350. It’s another white, all-wheel drive example (Ohio drivers have a type). Maybe I won’t hate it.
[Images: sellers]
What is it with this pragmatic approach? You need a classic car :)
I can’t do it!
Don’t mess with a classic unless you have lots of time, money and patience
I can only manage one of those on any given day.
I had that feeling, Corey ;-)
You need a 90’s car. You get modern engine controls and reliability in a car that still has some physical connection between the driver and the motor.
Actually that sounds like like an excellent suggestions 28 cars. Since this is more of a pleasure cruiser sort of vehicle that you’re not putting many miles on, why NOT an older used car that would hit all the right notes as far as interior quality and aesthetics go? You’d save a boat load on the front end (depending on what you buy of course), and depending on what you buy, would probably not suffer any depreciation at all. The big question mark would be how much an older car would need in terms of repairs and maintenance.
I’d be looking at W126 560 SECs, or something newer like an SC430 if the aesthetics sit well with you. Going older yet, an Old American boat from the 70s? A cushy and gorgeous oddball like the Lincoln MKVIII?
Nope, I’m not going to get into something old with a carb, or something that doesn’t have modern air conditioning. I want it to be usable on a daily basis. I do not like the SC430’s looks.
MKVIII or some flavor of older Mercedes coupe still fit the bill?
I’m not a huge fan of the Mark VIII. I don’t think they were particularly well built, and the interior is a joke of ergonomics.
The 560SEC is beautiful and a dream, but I’m not going to count on that to work all the time and not have random issues.
“I’m not a huge fan of the Mark VIII.”
Maybe the Mark VIII was not a huge fan of you!
Mark VII!
It probably isn’t. I can’t even spell Initeck.
With the rate at which you accumulate miles, I’d have thought you would be more tolerant of non-critical issues that could spring up. I dunno, an older Benz with a good history doesn’t spook me too bad, as long as a PPI was done by a specialist beforehand.
“If you will it dude, it is no dream”
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/560sec/2176028.html
Not the absolute cleanest one, but a very nice driver that’s been maintained by the look and sound of it. I bet there’s a fair amount of wiggle room in the price too. Ad says RF fender repair but to me it looks like the driver’s side front fender that has a slight paint match issue.
I looked at an RX at that dealer before. In no way would I buy anything from that incredibly shady place. So much sketch.
Nobody likes the SC430’s looks. This is why you by an SC300/400. Stupid low mileage example exist and this is a “Peak Toyota” design with a look that has held up well. It may very well be my next car if I can shake this need to own an LS Swapped third gen Camaro with Van Halen’s Greatest Hits stuck in the tape deck.
A clean ’92 SC300 came up on Craiglist for 5K here. Sorely tempted.
I love the SC430’s looks, so there one. Probably the only one.
Speaking of the MBs switchgear, it amazes me how many makers can’t comprehend that simple task. It might cost $5 more per car to put some nicely damped knobs and levers in a car. Sends a strong message….
Corey dealing with a 70s carburetor could be its own TTAC series.
NOT INTERESTED
Smart, compared to modern fuel delivery systems a carburetor is like have a hand pump and outhouse when indoor plumbing is available
https://www.amgcarsonline.com/used/INFINITI/2017-INFINITI-Q60-aa3091bf0a0e0ae776d497649db5a1d1.htm
This is the leading Q60 contender I’ve found.
I really like the color.
Listen closely…it’s saying something. “Hey, Corey buy me…”
Seriously, if it’s this or a Lexus GS, this wins 9.99999999 times out of ten.
The dealer I was working with on a Q50 had a ’18 coupe in that metallic cherry red / tan interior on the lot. Of course, it was a ton more than I wanted to spend, but Lord, was I tempted.
BTW, I noticed the infotainment took forever to spool up on the Q50s I looked at – did they ever fix that?
Bad part on that blue one is that it was a rental (which seems to be a large number of the ones I find for sale).
The red paint is reserved solely for RS400 models, as is the special steering and digital suspension options. So I won’t be having a red one.
I didn’t notice any slow infotainment of the one I drove either in Tennessee in 2017 or the other day.
Not loving the rental aspect. Can CPO warranties be had on it I wonder?
How much should I buy this for?
gatewayclassiccars.com/TPA/1335/1990-Oldsmobile-Toronado
It’s not perfect, so $5k.
Yeah, I agree. ~$5k seems like the max. It’s very clean, but not amazing condition. It also has no VIC and has cheesy aftermarket exhaust tips.
9 is very steep for that.
Classic car with navigation to boot! You don’t like android Auto for Waze?
Oh just get the AWD model… (Q60 that is) 3.0 TT it will help you put the power down to the pavement in all weather conditions.
The Q60 has an open diff for it’s AWD syayem and is not the best example.
But yes, I do also recommend AWD if you ever see rain with a 300 hp/trq vehicle.
I had actually typed that you should look at a Red Sport Q50 in the last post but got distracted here at work and closed it out. I drove one recently listed for about $34k with low miles. I liked it a lot, though unlike you I would have preferred it be AWD. I’m going to guess you are trying to keep the price sub-$30k And probably closer to $25k.
I’ve noticed the Q60 is thinner on the ground but usually priced a bit less spec for spec with the Q50.
I think you and I have cross-shopped a lot of the same marks. My window was a little wider though so I was considering a new Charger 392, Kia Stinger GT, and oddly, a Mazda6. My top 5 after driving most of them are:
1. Lexus IS350
2. Q50 Red Sport
3. Charger
4. Stinger (admittedly the most fun to drive during the test drive when I had it step out making a turn)
5. Mazda6
I’ve been hot for the IS for a few years now – despite the looks. And if you haven’t been inside a 2014+ you should check it out. The old back seat was laughable and the current one is much more spacious – though still maybe not actually spacious.
Oh, and I should point out that I haven’t bought anything.
Yep, $25 is my current area of search. Thought the Q50 RS excited me, I don’t think the regular one has as much going for it, especially with the styling which I find just OK.
I don’t hate the idea of the IS, but I don’t like the styling at all. And I want more (larger) sedan than that if I’m going that route.
Hard pass on the IS350, its just too small. The Q50 Red Sport or Charger R/T Hemi would both be an absolute blast to drive. Id lean toward the Charger because it has actual usable infotainment.
I’m not surprised given your stated interests that the MX-5 was not for you, but I appreciate you checking one out and providing comments all the same. It’s good to have some perspective on them, since I drive a pretty loud unluxurious vehicle these days and am thinking of going MX5 someday haha.
Have you looked at the BMW 2 series? I didn’t see that discussed but it may be a good fit. It’s on my to-consider list but doesn’t have many used ones with manuals.
Used BMW is not on the table for me, as I’m not willing to deal with the potential maintenance headaches.
Fair enough. For a while the 2 series was tracking well in CR reliability metrics, but it was a new platform so they only had new cars in the sample. Now it’s about average. The E class Mercedes, however, is “worse than average”, so I figured I might as well mention the 2 series if you were considering that at one point.
You drove the previous car 15k over 10 years. What on earth “maintenance” costs are you worried about?
Seriously, your 25k budget pretty much limits you to 50-70% depreciated 2nd or third owner entry level luxury cars. How on earth are you gonna worry about maintenance costs? Buy a decent 996 or go lease a Lexus.
There was a time when a used, cpo warranty BMW made sense. That time ended around 2010.
If the MX5 was a serious consideration, then you really need to test drive a new Mustang V8. Give the Detroit home team a chance!
I like this idea, but I’m not sure the Mustang’s interior would impress Corey. Given that he could probably find one new in budget might change his perspective. I wouldnt bet on it, though.
The seats are very supportive and comfortable. That’s why I say test drive one, be surprised!
A new Mustang is probably very close to the price points of the used cars Corey is looking at.
Are there luxury trim V8 Mustangs?
GT Premium Fastback
GT features plus these and more:
Leather-Trimmed Heated and Cooled Front Seats
SYNC®3
Heated Mirrors with Integrated Turn Signal Indicators
Selectable Drive Modes with Toggle Switches
Nine (9) Speaker Stereo System Details
I test drove a base 2017 Q50 and found it to be very fast but treacherous in the rain, can’t imagine how bad it would be in snow! Also I think its older M37 and M35 predecessors were built using better materials and higher quality overall. A pristine G37 coupe if you can find one that wasn’t abused would likely be fun and comfortable for 2 as the rear seat is very tight.
I won’t be driving this in snowy conditions, as that’s what the wagon is for.
Dinging a Miata for having a cheap interior doesn’t feel fair. Used Q60 sounds good though. It’s a real stunner that hauls the mail, even if it isn’t the last word in refinement.
For the price point, I think it’s acceptable. Just not something I’d live with. The implementation of the folding roof should be cleaner.
Buick Regal TourX wagon
Actually, RWD RCSB Ram R/T
Dave, are you just mad that you can’t buy a TourX in Canada?
I didnt even know that. I just like trolling my author.
Personally I’ll never buy another sedan ride height vehicle while I live here. The road and transition grading is terrible. Even stock cars bottom out pulling off a parking lot to a main road all over the place.
Our RVR has been rock solid and awesome (50k kms in 16 months, no issues). Our 02 Accent finally crapped its transmission, and I’m shopping for a 13 Avalanche to put the highway miles on to protect the 10 year warranty miles on the Mitsu. I really like the Avalanche and can happily maintain it on aftermarket parts, wrenching myself and Indy mechanics. GM gets no more of my money.
I can’t believe Dave’s recommending a Buick.
Its more “recommending”. For gits and shiggles.
That said my brother has a 14 Sierra SLT and my parents a 2016 Regal 2.0T AWD and I’m very happy they have not had any issues, never mind issues like mine. I guess I took the bullet for the family.
Just think of it as a rebadged Holden Commodore Sportwagon RS.
“The comments (some filled with unusual anger) prodded me to add another car to the list.”
Anger? WTH?!?
We were shaming him for so much as considering an automatic Miata. I stand by my bullying proudly!
Yeah, automatic Miata??? If you want an auto and a good deal, go get a Cascada. The LeBaron of 2018.
@Corey I re-read the comments from your earlier piece . Apart from the old “stick vs manual” thing , I’ve certainly read a whole lot more anger in my years as a TTACer.
That’s not the part I was referring to.
Okay
For well under $25K there are loads of low mileage C5 and C6 Corvettes that have been babied and polished by their 70 year old owners. All reports I’ve seen say they are reliable, cheap to keep up, and even get good fuel economy if driven sanely, and the vast majority of automatics. You will never have anything more fun for the money.
I’m not a big fan of either of those generations, really.
Yep, ST or RF the MX-5 is loud AF. I have the ST and on long highway drives it’s actually more pleasant with the roof down (it’s louder, but for some reason less punishing). RF apparently is worse with the top open.
I agree with whoever said Mustang GT. The interior is a little bit cheap but the car has so much personality and giddyup that you forgive it.
I’m a hard core domestic fan . As far as coupes go, a Camaro SS is pretty sweet. Having owned one for a short period of time I found it nightmare as a daily driver. Somebody mentioned a V8 Mustang ? If you can find an unmolested one, without the in your face graphics they’re kinda nice. I also wouldn’t rule out a Challenger .
Ahh…something told me Corey wasn’t going to be rollin’ in a Benzo. And I figured a Q60 was coming. That’s a good call!
Hold out for one in that awesome cherry red color. With tan interior.
Ever thought about doing Carvana or a similar service?
Forgot to mention the 2015 GS 350 I tested had the highend nav package with the huge screen and the mouse like controller was simply awful. It makes the crummy I drive in our BMW 7 series a joy to operate in contrast. Check out the comments on the GS 350 electronics before buying one. Otherwise the GS 350 F-sport is fun to drive for a Lexus.
Definitely would be okay with red, white, light ice blue, or dark blue.
I’ve looked on their site, but even if they had what I want, as I understand it they do not negotiate at all. Feels like then the pricing wouldn’t be appealing.
If you are looking at the Q50 and Q60, make sure you test drive them with and without the electronic steering to see which one you prefer, and shop accordingly.
Do not want the electronic steering, I know that already. I do want the DDS dynamic suspension.
So far I haven’t seen a breakdown on the packages available and what they include (and how to tell).
During this winter I thought about getting a AWD car. I don’t want a SUV. Subaru Imprezza is popular around here, I suspect because they are pretty cheap. Since I currently drive a TSX Sportwagon the TLX came up, but it strains my budget a bit too much.
Now the snow is melting and I discovered Instacart will deliver groceries to my place. So I’ll keep my Sportwagon a little longer, maybe get studded tires for the front.
You should consider just getting 4 highend non-studded snow tires, likes of Michelin xi3 or Nokian R3.
I already have Michelin, but there is a block long patch of ice on my road that I can’t get over without chains. So I drive about a mile with the chains, take them off for the rest of the trip. Then of course I have put them back on as I get close to home. I think the studs on the front will get me enough traction on the ice.
Just get a full set. If you’re quick with the wheel and careful about slowing only in a straight line, you might avoid ever spinning it. But the difference between studded and studless can be dramatic on warm, wet ice. For that reason, it is illegal in some Canadian provinces to have studded tires only on the front.
http://www.skstuds.ca/2015/10/04/the-studless-tire-deception-ice-temperature-and-why-studless-tires-frequently-outperform-studded-tires-in-tests/
I wouldn’t have any fear of personally running studless winters up front with a decent set of all-seasons on the back as long as nobody else ever drove my car. Car and Driver lapped considerably faster in testing with that setup than with four winters, using the persistent oversteer to their advantage. But I don’t think I’d want to drive anything with studded tires on the front only.
Go with the Nokian Hakkas if you want to experience the best.
http://www.skstuds.ca/2019/02/14/2018s-best-the-latest-and-greatest-winter-tires-tested-by-the-naf/
Corey, that GS is likely the winner. Even in non F-Sport trim, it’s sport firm. No ‘even for a Lexus’ qualifier needed. Great seats. Base stereo is just ok… definitely worth springing for the Mark Levinson unless AM radio or audiobooks are your jam.
I don’t need it to be too firm, so no worries there. I don’t like the metal interior trim on the F-Sport anyway, prefer wood.
I’m discovering that both the adaptive steer and digital suspension are reserved for the Q60 RS, so I won’t have either of those on a 3.0t.
I think a used Genesis 5.0 2015 and above.Even the v6 is fast on paper.Nice, quiet interior. Updated tech.
I think if there was one local to check out I’d go have a look. But there are none.
I’ve got a ’15 Genesis 3.8. It’s a fantastic car but it’s not really remotely in the same category as these others; it’s a luxury cruiser. It can turn if you ask it to, but it’s huge with a capital big, heavy, and relatively isolated. And the nature of the engine makes it not super fun at low speeds.
A G80 sport with the 3.3T is probably a bit closer to the mark, but those aren’t in the price range.
How about a Caddy ATS? There are a surprising number of RWD examples available north of the Mason-Dixon line. Here’s a coupe, perhaps slightly above your budget, but it has the 3.6 V6.
https://drivechicago.com/cars/2015-cadillac-ats%20coupe-schaumburg_1G6AB1R36F0125534
ATS does not appeal to me, as I know that it was originally intended to be a Pontiac.
An odd reason to dismiss a car, but you do you. Good luck with your search.
How about a Jag XF? MY16s pull at 24 in mid trim and 21,3 in base. Nobody wants RWD only in Ohio so its a tough sell and Jag offers something like an * year CPO warranty.
It’s not a Jag. It’s a Jaaaaaaaag.
I’ve never been big on the XF. The design looked old to me very quickly.
Oops forgot you still want a coupe’
btw JLR does have the best CPO warranty,6 yr 100k bumper to bumper . Which is why I bough a 6mon old LR in 2017
2016+ Honda Accord Coupe V6 touring
CarPlay/Android auto standard
Should find one in good condition between $20-25k
Isn’t everything on the road today a “Coupe”? I’d normally give the Lexus GS the nod for it’s durability and reliability, but looking at current Lexus, I have my doubts, at least on the durability side.
Q60 strikes me as a watered-down, lesser version of what you’ve got now.
I still think you should get the Cosmo. Check off those Autojourno Cred boxes!
If you are not into the Miata or the Mustang…
And if you are not considering my prior suggestion of the Dodge Ram…
Then how about the Alfa Romeo Giulia? If you get the non-Quadrifoglio model, it can be pretty reasonable in price. Sport leather seats and a nice color:
https://cargur.us/rjl3L
I know it’s questionable in terms of reliability, but you can actually be getting some factory warranty and still stay close to your price point.
Also, you could consider the Porsche Boxster or Cayman.
Buying a used Giulia is like dating a super-hot woman with three baby daddies, and expecting not to be number four.
But this model is still young … There’s still a chance it will work out! :)
Giulia is an interesting car… it’s the only sedan I can think of I found difficult to get into and out of. There’s something odd about either the shape of the door opening or the amount of space to move in and out of it.
This is a big problem as you’d be needing to get into and out of the car a lot at the dealer’s service dept.
No no no….You are all wrong. Submitted for your approval:
https://barnfinds.com/1982-chevrolet-camaro-z28/?fbclid=IwAR1c-nazUWbCjdIR3lmu44FyB31OLVpZCoBvDvDTUHBaILvOyw_82sTPHtk
All she needs is a licence plate on the front that reads “B!+c#!n\'” and Night Ranger’s Greatest Hits.
“rare 305 4bbl”
That takes some brass ones.
Corey,
Mustangs with the premium level trim are very nice. My wife even paid extra for the 2 tone interior (black and red), and it is stunning. Even the rental convertibles,4 cyl, have a pretty nice interior. Had one of those the other day.
Or, you could be really daring and buy my 2007 BMW 335i coupe, excellent condition and complete service history, for only $5500. Sure it may need some work in the future, though probably not for a while, but it’s a lot more fun to drive than any of the cars you’ve been looking at.
Bob Elton
Leather test: Press your index finger into the seat material perpendicular to the surface. If it forms an ‘even’ depression, it’s synthetic. It if wrinkles unevenly, it’s real leather. (Check all the panels separately, as ‘leather seating surfaces’ hardly ever means the entire seat is covered in leather.)
Unsolicited buying guideline: If you do decide to go older, don’t go back past 1996 because OBD-II (and get a scanner with real-time data capability).
I wouldn’t put nav as a must have. Lots of options out there that work better than factory nav.
Problem for the Q60 is that the nav is packaged with things which are required, like heated seats, remote start, and memory seats.
2-Way Driver’s Seat Power Lumbar Support, Heated Steering Wheel, Remote Engine Start System, Auto-Dimming Exterior Mirrors, Memory System For Driver’s Seat, mirrors and steering column settings, Power Tilt & Telescopic Steering Column w/Memory, easy entry, INFINITI InTouch Navigation System, InTouch services, navigation synchronized adaptive shift control, SiriusXM Traffic including real-time traffic information and voice recognition for navigation functions including one-shot voice destination entry, Power Driver Torso Bolsters, Heated Front Seats
Ah, well that sucks that they are all tied together but I see your point.
Sorry to hear that the MX-5 RF was a letdown for you. I blame the automatic!!! (kidding…) Reading your feedback suggests you wanted something a little more substantial than an MX-5 – something built to a higher price point. Hopefully Sweeney wasn’t too much of an awful experience. Peak MX-5 buying season starts very soon so I’m wondering what kind of dealing will be going on this spring.
My new boss JUST sold his 2016 GS350 (in Cincinnati, but wasn’t the same car from the earlier link) so I was asking him about it. He said two words: “Get one.” He’s already missing the car.
I think if the MX-5 had the sort of interior pieces and refinement from the 3, it would have been a very different story. But I know that’s expecting too much from a small, lightweight roadster.
The salesman was a bit pushy, when I told him I wasn’t going to buy something that day, he replied “Why not?” in an incredulous tone.
Hoping to make time Saturday morning and go check out a GS.
And that’s where you hit the nail on the head. Every MX-5 I’ve driven (and earlier Miatas) always stood out as a little hollow on the inside. In Mazda’s quest to save every gram of weight, some materials do suffer. At least they are screwed together well – my BIL’s NB-generation weekend warrior Miata still feels solid, but the lighter, hard plastics are the norm.
Have some fun – wait until the snow starts flying on Sunday, then go out and test some high-powered RWD cars! Just grab the keys with an evil grin and say “I’ll be right back…”
What about a later Jaguar XK if you want a coupe? Aluminum body for lightness and a very comfortable interior. From the friends I know who own them, very reliable too.
Also very safe, one friend walked away after being T boned by a semi. This was on a very rainy highway in the mountains and a idiot in a Dodge pickup (is there any other kind of Dodge truck driver?) was going too fast and tapped the rear of the Jag in an effort to convince my friend to go faster. It was off center and spun the Jag, bounced it off the barrier where it spun again and was hit by a following semi. Car written off, friend fine except for bruising from the seatbelt. Dodge took off of course.
I am so afraid of maintenance and electrical nightmares. Though I think the XK is beautiful.
Through one of the Jaguar clubs I am in I know some XK owners very well. The car seems solid, and nobody reports electrical problems. I think that’s more of a myth of Jaguars from 40 years ago, the XK was a flagship car that was well designed.
I wouldn’t recommend an earlier XK8, partly because of ZF transmission issues, but a 5.0 XK absolutely.
Nearest one I could check out is in Indianapolis. There’s a definite age to the interior – it got a bit better with the rotary shift update and things, but still.
OK – since search didn’t turn up references and it’s all a bit TL;DR this morning I’ll be the one to do it.
Many of your target vehicles appear to strike directly at the heart of pre-owned Model S territory. Purchased from the big T directly, these strike me as some of the biggest bargains out there considering models with less than 50k on then carry a new 4yr /50k warranty plus the balance of the 8 yr unlimited mile powertrain warranty. Some can be had in the $30k range which could leave you enough spare cash for a used Miata as a toy as well. Get into the $40k region and you can get into an 85D with 4.2 second 0-60 and “emissions testing mode”.
You’re right, very evident you ;DR.
The future’s much more interesting that the past.
I think you should just stick with a GS based on what you describe.