Sometimes the toy in the window is just a little too dear for the parent of a young child. Fast-forward a few decades and the shiny thing on the dealership floor is priced just north of what that same kid’s wallet can handle. Such is life.
But what if you and the OEM were able to strike a compromise — a reduction in power for a fairly significant drop in price?
Sometimes a compromise comes about without a late-night phone call to a CEO. Those can get awkward, after all. No need to mention names…
While a vehicle in its purest form — the guise intended from the outset of development — is a thing of beauty, sales considerations sometimes delivers a version that ticks most of the boxes; power might not be quite as abundant, but the reduction in price suddenly brings the model within range of less-monied buyers. Take the reborn Supra, for example. Last week we learned that, for 2021, Toyota will offer a 2.0-liter four-cylinder beneath the hood of its two-seater. Horsepower drops 24 percent from a 2020 inline-six model, weight falls 200 pounds, and the expected MSRP falls from a hair below $50k (for a 2020 model) to just north of $40k.
With 295 lb-ft of torque routed to the rear wheels of the slimmed-down coupe, spirited driving isn’t out of reach — and neither is the price for a new pool of would-be buyers. Other sporting models generally follow a different route, preferring instead to climb the power ladder after launch while draining more and more cash from the buyer’s wallet.
With this in mind, what model on sale today would you suddenly consider if the manufacturer offered a modest reduction in power and price?
[Image: Toyota]
Ok, I know there is less than 3 of us asking for this combo, but I would consider a Canyon or Colorado with the diesel and manual trans. 330-lbft and 170-160hp. Setting the powertrain combination aside, is $25k unrealistic for no options except power doors and locks?
God yes. Perfect combo, although I’d probably have to forgo the manual as the wife never learned, and must have AC. I don’t understand how GM can put their mid-size’s diesel behind such a huge paywall.
Mid-size extended cab, seats in the back optional, with the bed they put on those extended cabs and a diesel reasonably priced would be a sale for me. I have a full size I don’t really need any longer, but why trade it in on a mid-size when I can’t get anything I actually want without topping 40k?
You do realize what you’re asking for is a cheap truck with an expensive engine? Don’t think you’re going to get it.
Exactly, you’re lucky to get a V6 manual for $25k. Diesel? LOL.
Of course I wont get it. I believe this one falls within the realm of mechanical limits possibility but outside the realm of profitable.
In that case I’d like a $40,000 Porsche Cayman. Don’t think I’ll get it.
There is a difference between $30k outside the price range and $5k outside the price range. Given the large parts bin at GM’s disposal, a base diesel manual Colorado is within the realm of possibility.
“ a reduction in power for a fairly significant drop in price?”
Yes x10 give me a Big Block V8 over a turbo 6 cylinder any day, and have it for cheaper? Sign me up.
As far as a 2.0T in an actual car I have to drive on US highways? Not in this lifetime. The Supra I sat in at the auto show was nice, but it wasn’t special. It’s incredible how they can make a car with a great many attributes but make it completely sterile at the same time. The Supra is a fantastic $30k car with the inline 6, it’s going to die a slow death as a $50k+ car OTOH.
What is the purpose of the pricing on the Supra? To keep it from stepping on the 86s toes? This is not a $50k car I sat in.
What do you consider a $50K car?
Personally, I think $50K for the I6t Supra is about right but I’m one of its few fans on TTAC.
I’m basing it off of the unit I sat in, it felt like an 86 contender not like a 50k car. The odd design, oddly layer out cockpit, small engine, and a dealer network that’s better served selling Camrys and 4Runners than.
I went from being mildly interested to being completely apathetic and indifferent to the car once I sat in it.
On the other hand the Fiata still gets me excited despite that Italian engine every time I sit in one.
I actually had the opposite reaction sitting in one at the auto show. I don’t care for the exterior and I still think its a hard sell vs a V8 ponycar overall but I was impressed by the interior, especially the spaciousness, and the seat comfort. You could do a lot worse for $50K.
That’s odd, I suppose it comes to personal tastes, I saw the car in it’s bright red paint and was taken back at first, I didn’t even mind the design in the front, the rear still didn’t sit well with me, but once I sat in the car, I was mentally over it, it wasn’t for me at all.
There are plenty of cars with 2.0 turbo engines that have far more power than necessary to maneuver easily past traffic at any speed without breaking a sweat. And they do it smoothly and quietly. You really need to drive something other than a lumbering truck.
“to maneuver easily past traffic at any speed”
But not as easy as it is with whatever engine is offered on the step up trims.
“You really need to drive something other than a lumbering truck.“
I’ve owned both a C6, and now an SS sedan, but since your apparently an expert on all things I’ll let you tell me how those count as lumbering trucks. Explain to me oh-great-one how your truck like 2.0 Chicom crapboxes are comparable?
I’d consider a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder + manual transmission in a Wrangler for a reasonable reduction in cost. I don’t need a Pentastar with nearly 300 hp for off road driving, and I have zero interest in an auto only e-torque hybrid. Maybe the 2.4L from the Cherokee if it can be adapted to RWD.
The only problem is whether there would be any real savings vs. the V6, and if not then there’s no point forgoing the power.
None, I’m always on the lookout for the car that will allow me to up the power if I so choose. It’s not that I want to go fast I just want a vehicle that lets me do what needs to be done, whether it be towing, hauling, passing on the uphill, power should just be there when I need it
If I were going to buy a Mustang, I’d get the turbo 4. If I were going to buy a Camaro, I’d buy the V6. If I were going to buy a Supra, I’d go for the four banger, and it’s not a matter of money so much as a matter of getting the weight off of the front wheels.
Last week, I accompanied my sister to her first ever track day, at Palm Beach Intl Raceway. I flew down so I got a rental ponycar, which I have done in the past. This time I was given a Mustang GT, whereas in the past I’d gotten 4 cylinder Mustangs and 6 cylinder Camaros. The turn in on these cars is better than it was on the Mustang GT, and the extra power didn’t add to my enjoyment all that much.
I’d gladly trade the extra power for better turn in, regardless of the price.
Good insight, FormerFF. From my perspective, GM and Ford don’t currently offer a Mustang or Camaro that’s not some flavor of fast. There’s really no base-ish engine between the two (which in today’s market would hypothetically be longitudinal versions of the Malibu’s 1.5T and the Fusion’s NA 2.5). I’m glad V8s are available for those who want them, but cost-benefit would steer me to the other engines, and not just solely on the basis of price.
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Re: the Supra, I still question the division of labor that went on between BMW and Toyota. I’d rather have the 2.0T out of the Lexus RC. A friend’s 328i currently is on its third head gasket (N20 rather than B48, but it still doesn’t inspire me with confidence in BMW).
I can see some appeal to the V6 Camaro but the Ecoboost is a (powerful) tractor’s engine compared to a 7500RPM V8.
Similar thing the Supra 2.0T. there just isn’t enough lungs on it for me.
Te V6 Camaro sings sweetly at its 7500 RPM redline, and if you’re on the track the transmission takes it there. If you only drove it on the street, you’d probably never experience it.
If you are talking about the Supra, no. Even with the 6 and a steep discount it would be no. It isn’t a handsome car and it has BMW DNA and neither make the Ultimate Driving Machine anymore. For those monies, I would buy a Cayman. Used or new depending on how much I had to spend.
Nobody asks for less power – especially in a sports car. If the price isn’t right just wait for trade ins to start appearing on the used market. Something tells me the Supra is going to have some serious depreciation especially now that the 2nd year has more power (on paper). Those who paid full price or some crazy markup when it first launched are going to be hosed big time.
Some of these fancy trucks could stand to lose some interior bits and or options if that lowered their price. Not everyone wants a leather dash, aluminum trim and heated seats. I am waiting for an infotainment delete option where you can just dock your phone and use some OEM app to manage everything. Backup cam, streaming audio, navigation… all could be run off an well designed app. Sure there would be developement costs but the OEM has to develop factory apps to handle all this stuff today. This would free up costly hardware and avoid complex proprietary systems.
I agree, I would much rather have less content then less power
agreed
I would go for less content and less power. Less is more
I think it’s a smart move, and that 200lbs saving is in the right place making it probably a more nimble car.
It also makes it a Celica…not a Supra.
Maybe it’s a Celica Supra. Full circle, right back to the start of the Supra.
I just bought a new ‘19 vette for the heavily discounted price of $47k. It is an amazing car for the money. 460hp v8, 7M tranny, and an amazing sound from the adaptive performance exhaust. I can’t imagine spending roughly the same amount for some 4cyl auto tranny car but to each their own I guess.
The big question, did you get MRC?
I didn’t but maybe I should have. It was another 10k to get me to a grand sport and a side from the money, I was scared by the numerous reports of cracked/bent rims. My stingray handles amazingly well without MRC but maybe that’s because my precious car was a lowly Infiniti. I thought about going all in and getting a Z06 but the discount wasnt really there and I had a tough time spending more money than on a new C8. But the lack of a manual eliminated the c8. I’m glad I went with a 7M manual. It’s so much fun!
The C7 is an astoundingly good car, the price for what you get is also phenomenal, I believe one day I may wish I had snagged one of the last ones with that M7.
I remember buying my first Honda in the 8o’s.
Car price was 13999 ish, I could afford one option.
Automatic transmission for $1200, or air conditioning for $1200.
I went for the air.
Want more buyer. Take out some options. Loose the sunroof, electric windows, cruise control.
Porsche does that with the RS. Those silly customers pay more for less?
Have you driven the 911 GT3? It’s astoundingly good.
Ford Ranger. Put in Ford’s naturally aspirated 2.5 and drop $5k or more from the base price, and it would be an interesting cheap truck.
Various luxury sedans. Why does a luxury sedan need to go 0-60 in 5 seconds? For the most part they are driven in city traffic anyway, and many are chauffeur-driven. I think a Lexus LS 350 with a NA 3.5 V6 or a Mercedes S 300 with a hushed-into-oblivion version of the 2.0T would be fine products for the New York chauffeur car market.
I drive a 3900 lb sedan with a 2.0L normally aspirated engine, and I’ve never needed more than half throttle. Back when I started driving there were lots of slow cars, like 0-60 in 15 seconds slow. Even that was sufficient for day to day traffic. Why people want these super quick cards I don’t know, no one drives them that hard.
The best drivetrain for a luxury car would be an electric one, they are smooth and near silent.
No. You haircut the other stuff to buy power, not the other way around.
This
I’ll take a base Mustang with a normal roofline, 5.0 and LX badges! If I am getting a Turbo Mustang I’d assume it have SVO badges and a twin turbo 3.5. Not really the spirit of the question, but IMHO you always check the more power box first and add other options as desired up to your budget unless I am buying an OG Boss Mustang…make mine the 302, not the 429.
I replaced my ’89 Supra Turbo (232 HP) in ’01 with a one year old very low mileage 185 HP Audi TT Quattro, which cost me about $8K less than a brand new Audi TT Quattro with 225 HP would have cost. That was a significant savings, but I regretted it for the ten years I owned the TT. That was the only time I bought a vehicle with less horsepower than my previous one; I learned my lesson.
I hear good things about the 1.5L Miata, and it’d be quick enough for around town. If it also translated to a lower base price, it’d be a nice option.
I was also more interested when it had the 1.8 instead of the 1.4, but a Golf GT-Line (or whatever they wanted to call it) with all the GTI mechanical bits except for the engine would be nice, as it was still a plenty quick car in base form.
Civic SiR at 30k. 250-ish hp and torque.