Something appeared on social media yesterday that inspired a healthy bit of conversation among the denizens of the TTAC chatroom/lounge.
On the subject of cars that are not actually “cool,” one participant in the chat — we’ll call him “Adam T” (wait, that’s too obvious; maybe “A. Tonge” is better) — posited that a certain rear-drive sports sedan does not deserve the label of “cool.”
Perhaps you agree.
The original post, which prompted a stifled burst of laughter from yours truly, can be found here. Now, Kia deserves an awful lot of credit for keeping passenger cars alive in a market that shuns them like a coughing passenger on a crowded flight.
So many cars in that lineup, and one of them is a tempting rear-drive liftback sedan that can be had with a potent twin-turbo V6. All-wheel drive is available at the buyer’s request. Interesting, no? On the surface, such a car could be called cool.
Our very anonymous chatroom member disagreed, however.
Claiming that the Kia Stinger is not a bad car, this shadowy voice added, “It’s cool until a cool car pulls up.”
True, the Kia Stinger can’t be had with a manual transmission, and, falling under a Korean economy car badge, it certainly doesn’t pack a sporting pedigree. It’s known to be soft in corners, displaying too much body lean for a car of its stated purpose. Yet few reviewers will claim it’s not a solid attempt at a sports sedan, even if it falls just short of the mark.
Painted black, in GT guise, the Stinger cuts a pleasing profile. That said, it looks better before certain German, Italian, Japanese, and maybe even British sport-luxury sedans appear on scene.
You might agree with this take, you might not. But there’s certainly cars out there that, for whatever reason, are not cool, despite supposedly being just that — at least in your mind. What are they?
[Images: © 2018 Chris Tonn/TTAC, Kia Motors]
There’s an @$$ for every seat, if the owner thinks it’s cool, good enough .
-Nate
The Stinger is fine. If you thought the 1998 Grand Prix GTP was “cool” then the Stinger is “cool”. If you think the Grand Prix was lame then you probably don’t like the Kia either.
The big trouble the Stinger ran into is that the YouTube crowd dumped an annoying overload of effusive praise on it in 2018, which is causing some “Acktually the Stinger isn’t good” backlash since then. The reality is somewhere in between.
DDM buying one is a kick in the balls though.
Came here to say the Stinger is a “Gran Turismo” which meant it was good for crossing a continent at high rates of speed. I’m sure it is.
We shouldn’t criticize it because it isn’t a Mustang with a Track Pack.
This.
From Motor Trend –
Well, the Stinger started last, as the 12th car Randy Pobst lapped, but he instantly declared it “the biggest surprise of the week, with better balance than some of the big names that I’ve struggled with.”
Pobst recited the “B-word” (balance) eight times in his post-session download. Yes, the car is softly sprung and damped relative to this field, but it always laid over and took a nice, predictable set, carving corners with little need for steering correction.
And the “Original Venice Crew” (members of the Shelby American team that developed the GT350R) who tune Mustangs liked the Stinger when they drove it hard.
Of course, they thought it could use some upgrades (such as stiffening the suspension).
Except the 2018 Stinger’s interior is as dated as the 1998 Grand Prix.
The interior design will come back and be cool again. My neighbor’s teen daughter thinks her grandfather’s ’73 Dodge Monaco is cool, especially the fact she can roll down the windows with the engine off, just by turning a little crank. For kids today, even the past is a world of wonder.
As far as the question itself goes, I pick the C8 Corvette. It seems like a good sports car but it really doesn’t excite me.
Hell, I’d go with the nuclear option of saying the Corvette hasn’t been cool since around the time the Apollo program ended. It is an undeniable performance bargain, which makes it a great car. I’ve even got a huge soft spot for the C4. But they mostly just aren’t cool.
Wait, wait ~ what about those super cool color matching coveralls with the crossed flag patch over the left breast pocket ? .
If I had one of those, _THEN_ I’d be a cool Corvette driver, right ? .
I remember have great fun with Snake Pit in his ’68 Corvette top up or down .
I don’t think I ever drove it but it was fun and had a four speed .
Once you’re old & rich enough to buy a Corvette or BMW roadster, you’re automatically cool, non ? .
-Nate
My C7 brings a smile to my face every time I fire up the V8 and shift (yes with a manual) into 1st. So I’m fine being uncool… I’m just keeping up the tradition I started in high school.
I mean, if most owners logged the sort of track time you do, it’d probably also be different.
I’d have to agree overall. Most Corvettes don’t register as cool with me.
1993–2002 Camaro’s are not cool.
1974–1978 Mustangs are not cool.
Any Ford Galaxie/Fairlane after 1969 are not cool.
Being from Detroit I’ve reached a point where I no longer think muscle cars in general are all that special because everybody who wants a “cool” car has one. During the summer Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers/Challengers and Corvettes are as common on the road around here as Camrys and Corollas. Plus I’ve met too many douchebags who own standard fare Mustang GTs with a couple bolt ons that they pretend are Ferraris.
@Runfromcheney – I do agree that most of the “cool” muscle cars are babyboomer play things which render them uncool to everyone else. I see Harley Davidson in the same light. Something that is basically the exclusive domain of us old farts is not cool.
Mustangs absolutely own the muffler delete demographic in suburban Maryland. Challengers get underbody lights and instagram decals on the back window. Camaros are too scarce to have a stereotype.
Corvettes have never appealed to me, but I dig the C8
It was as if they took out the front seat of a 2+2, put the engine there, and you drove from the back seat. It’s just a goofy setup.
They seemed clownish and for old people that never drove them fast, or over 2K RPM and crashed them when they did.
Now the original MR2 I was wild about from the jump, and mine was taken away too soon. I guess I’d rather have a CRXsi than a similar value Corvette.
@Dan – In my town the “muffler delete demographic” is usually driving older diesel pickups. Rollin’coal types.
Harley riders are another group of the “loud pipes annoy lives” demographic.
If it helps, BMW no longer makes a cool car either.
The only thing I really dislike is the tablet screen inside. I don’t like engine noises piped in either, but the screen is such a terrible LOOKING integration it would be a deal breaker.
I DO like that you don’t have to get AWD either.
Doug DeMuro buys a USED Stinger…
But, but the WARRANTY :)
If these prove out to be fairly reliable, and have massive depreciation due to a sedan-scorning market, the 3 year old off-lease ones may be a nice way to go. Of course that assumes the motor and/or trans doesn’t blow at 100,000 miles.
I was referring to DeMuro’s series on his Carmax Range Rover and it’s warranty claims. Doug knows how to work a warranty and more then likely bought this Stinger with an iron-clad warranty
Doug’s Stinger was a leftover new 2018 bought in January. So it comes with the full Kia new car warranty.
See, Doug knows a good warranty and how to abuse it :)
Bumper to bumper warranty on an old Aston, Doug was not sweating when his was being lifted onto a flat bed.
I think DeMuro was smart – these are a very solid buy used. Like this one:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/812072770/overview/
Loaded-out, 3600 miles, $36,000? Wow.
This is an amazing car for the money. When it’s time to dump the Audi in a few years, it’ll definitely be on my radar. And I bet a Genesis G70 will also be a similarly good deal.
I agree, I generally agree with Doug’s reviews and his purchase strategies
I find it amusing after the shade that got thrown at him here from that other guy on the roster, that Doug went on to be come internet famous and turned out to be a cool guy because he’s a 2-shirt cargo short wearing normie that actually makes reasonable adult decisions. (There’s more of that and less of the persona on his second channel).
The Stinger is a great deal. However the badge snobs will not approve. It’s not “cool” but if you buy cars based on a coolness factor then you’ll be broke very quickly.
True, but know what badge snobs get for thirty-five? A Mercedes A220, which they’d probably insist on calling an “A-Klasse.”
(By the way, there is no truth to the rumor that “A-Klasse” translates from German as “you dumb s**t, you just bought a $35,000 Mazda3.”)
Tells you all you need to know about the badge snobs, if you ask me…
Find DD annoying as heck, and he could have found a similar deal on a ’19MY which has some of the tech upgrades that he was complaining that his ’18MY doesn’t have (other things will have to wait for the F/L); a year older vehicle already has greater depreciation as well.
My personal definition of cool:
(1) Goes, stops and handles well.
(2) Comfortable to drive and ride in.
(3) Doesn’t cost a fortune to maintain after the warranty expires.
(4) Not so ugly that I have to be led to it blindfolded.
You’ve described a Ford Fusion Sport.
I’m a bit confused with how the question is worded.
If it’s asking what is something I like that most others think is uncool, my answer (at least compared to the typical TTAC crowd) is lifted trucks/”brodozers”
If it’s asking what is something I think is uncool that most others like, my answer is the GTI.
I’ve never owned a fast car, a sports car, or an objectively cool car.
Back when I got my 05 Scion xB1, my kids thought that was cool. My coworkers thought it was cool because I drove them to lunch every day in it.
For me, a clean 30+ year old car is cool, no matter the make or model.
We just bought a Pacifica. The kids (18,10) both think it is cool. We have a 427 S/C replica that both kids also think is cool. Eye of the beholder and all that.
My kids (almost 6, almost 2) have been watching Disney+ heavily with the “stay at home” orders. My 6 year old daughter went into the garage and confidently stated that my 67 Mustang has “racing tires” because they have raised white letters on them. ;-)
@ Principal Dan
My Wife loves her Equinox. Our 15.9 year-old son loves his ‘new’ 2000 GMC Sierra 4X4. Our 6 year-old son loves Daddy’s F-150 because he can see better out of it and can reach the window switch. Only Daddy loves his CTS-V, which has the hood up once a month in the driveway. The rest of my family might be on to something…
This is my middle finger – does it look good to you?
Drive what you like.
[Now, *how* you drive around me, I do care about.]
If you post this on Twitter, I will create an account to like the comment.
My 2013 Accord coupe is cool until it’s next to something that costs twice as much. I do love it. Just got back from a post Covid ride to the bank.
“True, the Kia Stinger can’t be had with a manual transmission, and, falling under a Korean economy car badge, it certainly doesn’t pack a sporting pedigree.”
Stick doesn’t matter, and you don’t drive a pedigree, you drive a car.
All the “we used to make sporting cars” or “we make OTHER sporting cars but this isn’t one” in the world won’t make a car sporting or cool – the car *itself* has to do that.
I don’t want a RWD hatch [AWD wagon for me – and not in theory, I drive one], but if I did, the Stinger would be a fine choice.
back a few years ago:
mid-90s Impala SS = cool
mid-90s Buick Roadmaster = grandpa’s car
even though they had the same engine/transmission, etc. I loved my LT1 Roadmaster even though it handled like something from a 70s cop show.
I’ve gotten quite a few positive comments about my 2014 Mustang even though it is just a V6. Your average person can’t tell that it’s missing the 5.0 badges and doesn’t quite sit as low. To them it’s a Mustang with dual exhaust.
Of course there’s the negative of driving it – having the guy in a new Blazer RS trying to drag race it.
The 3.7L V6 and a manual transmission, makes for a lot of fun. It’s not a V8, but it has no problem tossing that car around a lot better than people would have you believe.
Pathetic Automatic Scum
All the cars at my house would be considered uncool cool cars because they’re all automatic.
2007 Legacy GT wagon? Cool!! Is it a stick? Not available. Oh…
2006 GTO? Cool!! Oh… it’s automatic.
2006 BMW Z4 3.0Si? Cool! Automatic :-(
And then there’s the one that’s a CVT and a Lexus.
Somehow the Land Ark gets a pass simply because it’s so old I guess.
I dunno, in that segment, I don’t think the Stinger is tragically uncool. At least it’s trying where the Q50’s given up and the 3 series has become lost. I think its G70 cousin is cool (I thought the base stripper one I checked out at an auto show was he most appealing thing I’d seen in ages) but it’s too hidden away in obscurity to matter.
What IS uncool is my Civic Type R. Cosmetically it’s WAY overdoing it, doing it WAY too late (at least in the North American market) at a time when Honda’s overall corporate image is going elsewhere. The OG NSX on the other side of my garage thankfully does not share that fate: Innovative (but not gimmicky) technology. Senna. Supercar-beater. Cool and casual at all times.
I think the person mentioned in the OP is kinda missing the point. What makes the Stinger cool to those who like it is that it’s different and there aren’t a lot of them out there. The Germans are starting to become victims of their own success, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi have been three of the best selling luxury brands in America for well over a decade and they’re now common enough that everyone who wants to have “more refined” tastes in cars has one. It’s reaching a point where even Porsches are becoming too common and are losing their cool factor, something not helped by used Boxters and Caymens becoming one of the top go-to rides for budget ballers. Then there comes the matter of how Germanic even mainstream cars have become over the past decade and everyone from around the globe has relentlessly copied their engineering.
I think the big question for the Stinger is how it’s going to hold up long term. Will it maintain its fan following past the point of obsolescence or will it end up like, say, the Grand Prix GTP or Thunderbird Super Coupe where it was kinda cool when new, but a decade or so later was little more than a dim memory to most enthusiasts? I’ve already seen credible arguments that the Stinger is struggling on the market because its running face-first into the Genesis G70. Now with a 300 HP Sonata N-Line and possibly a 300 HP/AWD 2021 Optima GT coming, I think come Christmas we could have a good conversation about whether or not the Stinger is losing its luster. Is it really worth the extra $15-20K over the performance trim Sonata/Optima? Will it become enough of a depreciation special that anyone who truly has their heart set on a Stinger should just buy a used one?
Going back to the Germans, I think there may be an opening for an upstart brand like Genesis as the economy recovers because like I mentioned, the same 3-4 brands (if you want to include Lexus) have dominated the market for so long, there may be enough buyers out there who are ready for something different. I think Alfa-Romeo had a chance to be that brand but were undone by how aside from being nice to drive their cars are woefully uncompetitive and their terrible quality. Three years later it seems that the only people who drive Alfas are mid-level FCA employees who want to prove to everyone in the office that they’re a big boy now.
Similarly, being from Detroit I’ve reached a point where I no longer think muscle cars are all that special because everybody who wants a “cool” car has one. During the summer Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers/Challengers and Corvettes are as common on the road around here as Camrys and Corollas. Plus I’ve met too many douchebags who treat their run-of-the-mill Mustangs and Camaros like they’re Ferraris.
I agree with you 100% on the German cars. They simply aren’t cool anymore, and that’s partly due to their ubiquity, but also because the standard-bearer BMW 3 Series has become so boring. It’s amazingly competent and well-engineered, but not nearly as cool as, say, an E46 or E90 with MT and Sport Package. And the M cars will be too expensive to be truly cool.
I do think the Stinger is totally cool. It’s an interesting design, not terribly common, fun-to-drive, and to me the Kia badge is actually a plus. Maybe I’ve inherited my mom’s attraction to things with “reverse snob appeal,” or maybe the Stinger is the natural landing spot for former Saab owners. Who knows? I test drove one, and even with the less-than-awesome 2.0T, I loved it. The rear-biased AWD system is pretty sweet, and the transmission is surprisingly good.
Plus, the Stinger is slated to get that 2.5T that’s going into the Sonata N-Line and Optima (K5) GT, so the four-cylinder model will also be cool. Hopefully the base model will get a full suite of safety tech as well. If it does, I’ll want one.
Porsche 911. I always saw them as the prize you settled for, when a Ferrari was out of reach and you couldn’t accept a Corvette reality.
But that’s just me.
I thought a stick shift G70 would be the coolest car to own. But driving a stick these days is not like driving a stick used to be back in the days. Combine the turbo characteristics with the fact that cars are more powerful these days, and I find that I have to upshift from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th in such rapid succession that it is a bit ridiculous. I guess I can skip gears. In the old days, you take your time upshifting, as there is no useful power at 1500rpm, so there is a natural rhythm to rowing your gears as you drive about town at normal traffic speeds. With the G70, it’s like, “I have to shift up again? So quickly?” There is no time to enjoy rowing through the gears. Plus, the dazzling chrome grille is a little bit too much around here in the Midwest. Now, if they imported new Land Cruiser 70 series with stick shift to the US, that would be cool. That would be an unpretentious, no-nonsense vehicle for a country gentleman.
I poured one out when I bought a car with an automatic, but there’s so much truth here…a stick is a pain in the a** in today’s traffic, and that (plus the fact that most automatic-equipped performance cars have tiptronic and/or paddle shift setups) goes a long way to explaining why they’ve become so much less popular.
One problem with the stick-shift G70 is the transmission itself. It isn’t very good. I didn’t like it, and even the “Save the Manuals” crew at Car and Driver think the G70 is better with the automatic.
I’ve been a die-hard manual driver for 25 years, even when I had a fairly long commute, but: (1) it is getting to be a hassle with the increasingly brutal traffic; (2) my left knee doesn’t like it; (3) automatics now have better performance and efficiency than manuals, and; (4) very few cars are available with MT anyway. I’ve given up on requiring a manual for my next car, and in the past couple of months I’ve realized I might not even want one.
Reviews on the G70 manual have been hit-and-miss. I’d say it is worth someone checking out for themselves if they have interest.
@emineid
Get a Gen I CTS-V, if you’re in the USA. +/-$9000 and you’ll have four doors; 6MT; 400HP; and 395TQ. They do 60 MPH in five of their six gears; also, lots of power and long gearing can make for fewer shifts. I love mine – though it takes some maintaining…
@ Tele Vision: The first ‘feature’ you list after the price is what turns me off. Four doors are NOT “cool.”
And therein lies a serious rub :
When I was a young man I often had sedans, two and four doors because after nearly dying when others drove I realized I’d only feel safe if I drove so I had to have at least a four seater, sometimes a station wagon .
Now, out of all my jalopies I think I love my 4 door Mercedes plodder 240D the best although I drive others more often because I like to motorvate faster than it will go .
Some time ago I was in Beverly Hills and heard a serious caterwauling approaching, it turned out to be a teen-aged middle eastern kid in a yellow Ferrari rag top going maybe 20 MPH in first gear acting like he was cool….
It’s hard to be a bigger dork than I am but he managed and made sure everyone was watching him make a public fool of himself .
-Nate
Sounds like that dude didn’t know how to drive a stick.
Moves to Germany after a 34 year absence. Wants to buy a cool German car you can’t get in the US. Runs out of time in temporary quarters (while using a VERY used Mazda3). Wants a good BMW 1-Series five-door with manual, but can’t find one quick enough. Wife keeps pointing out a Mercedes on the small lot across the driveway from temp housing. Goes to look and finds out it has super-low km, and is a six-speed manual! Settles and buys. Posts pictures to friends back home, announcing “I bought a Mercedes!” Friends see a little grey box on wheels and wonder, WTF? Yep…a 2012 MB B180. Probably NOT cool…
I guess you just have to ask, “What is a ‘Cool Car’?”
My only answer to that is, “The car that’s ‘cool’ to you.” Most of what others call ‘cool’ is boring to me. What I would call ‘cool’ is demonstrably boring to others, considering their commentary in response to statements made here and elsewhere over the years.
For most non-readers of TTAC, a cool car is one of four things:
1) An SUV
2) A lux branded vehicle
3) Any car above mass market brands with a big screen, making it easier to drive distracted
4) New exotics
For readers of TTAC, a cool car is also one of four things:
1) Manual transmissions
2) Wagons/low hatches/fastbacks
3) Old Porsche, BMW, Mercedes – from the generations when they didn’t have screens.
4) Lexus LS up until 2018. The older the better.
On TTAC and other automotive websites, you’re not allowed to call it a ‘wagon’. It’s a ‘shooting brake’. Sometimes you can get away with calling it an ‘estate’.
You better not be making fun of my Lexus LS400. Don’t make me post pictures of it! It’s a 1996 and it’s the best car ever.
The cool car I was looking into was 2017 Mini Clubman. It was cool until it wasn’t. There was nothing cool about it besides those doors in the back and the interior/exterior design, and the fact that you can totally customize it, A to Z
The Stinger to me looks like it was trying to be cool by tacking accessories on the body from a Pep Boys circa 1992.
Cool is different things to different people, but the niche that thinks the Stinger is cool is way smaller than that that thinks a GT-40 is cool.
I’ve always appreciated the Pontiac Aztek. Look at any Japan brand today and tell me they were wrong. If you want scary, look at JDM Toyota Esquire minivan and it’s Aztek meets Transformers.
Since the days of the Fox notchback Mustang 5.0 cop car, any legit cop car in civilian hands.
I’ve nothing but respect for the Stinger, but fully loaded, it’s a bit close to my C43.
Yea, at GT2 levels the Stinger makes less sense. I got my base GT in 2018 for $34K, and I’m sure the TTAC negotiating gurus can beat that. That’s more high-trim Camcord pricing than 6-cylinder German sports sedan.
YMMV, but the only thing I feel like I’m missing out on with the lower trim car is the upgraded stereo. Performance-wise the base GT lacks the electric suspension (which hasn’t been given rave reviews anyway) but is otherwise the same as the GT2.
A C43 similarly equipped will run in the mid-$60k range.
Plus, liftbacks are pricier than their 4-door counterparts (see 4 Series GC and A5 Sportback vs. the 3 Series and A4, respectively).
I learned to drive on a ’67 Mustang – 6 cylinder automatic – in 1969. My 17 year old friends and my girlfriend sure thought it was cool. And they were the only ones that mattered.
Wheel covers, AM radio, driver side remote mirror stalk and back-up lights. Thanks, Dad, for buying Mom cool wheels.
It’s a ’67 Mustang! It could have a hamster under hood and still be cool.
Most like-vehicles these days can’t be had w/ a manual.
The Ford GT, Nissan GT-R, Chevy Corvette, Dodge Challenger SRT (and beyond), Nissan Z, Toyota Supra, etc. are all sold under economy/mainstream badges.
Yes, it’s on the softer side (not as sharp as its corporate cousin, the G70), but unlike the G70 which is a sports sedan, the Stinger is a Grand Tourer.
Having said that, would be a good thing if Kia brought to market a harder-core Stinger; they have been developing one and the rumblings indicate that the Stinger will eventually get the higher output (420 HP or so) 3.5 TTV6.
Think will take what Randy Pobst and the “Original Venice Crew” (members of the Shelby American team that developed the GT350R) say about the Stinger.
From Motor Trend –
Well, the Stinger started last, as the 12th car Randy Pobst lapped, but he instantly declared it “the biggest surprise of the week, with better balance than some of the big names that I’ve struggled with.”
Pobst recited the “B-word” (balance) eight times in his post-session download. Yes, the car is softly sprung and damped relative to this field, but it always laid over and took a nice, predictable set, carving corners with little need for steering correction.
Hagerty’s also deemed the Stinger a future classic/collectible.
420hp sounds like a good level. If there is a 2nd gen Stinger GT then I hope it can hang acceleration-wise with the M340i (so like 3.9-4.1 0-60).
I also get that current suspension isn’t set up for track duty but I hope they don’t turn the car into a kidney bleeder.
Based on Stinger owners who have come from German vehicles – say that they get a lot more attention than in their previous rides (don’t know if that qualifies as being a “cool” ride).
EverydayDriver has a good comparison w/ the 4 Series GC.
Cool car for me is the one I own at the moment.
My car isn’t cool, but it’s a whole lot better than people give it credit for.
Let me guess…Some kind of Toyota?
Some kind of Ford. A Ford that TTAC reviewed, poorly.
I have Ford Fusion and it is cool and fast.
I have one. First automatic I’ve owned, after 34 years of owning cars. It’s much sportier with bigger anti sway bars, ride’s a bit stiffer but I like that. A bit over styled, yes, but at least it’s not boring. People who come up to me in parking lots either know what it is and think it’s cool, or say “Wait, that’s a Kia?!” I think it’s cool. Great GT car. Fuel tank is too small though, lucky to get 300 miles per tank.
..
2020 Tip: “Uncool” vehicles help with social distancing.
“True, the Kia Stinger can’t be had with a manual transmission, and, falling under a Korean economy car badge, it certainly doesn’t pack a sporting pedigree.”
And there it is. I am getting so sick and tired of the “badges” BS; the BS of the Mark V Supra being BMW and not a Toyota; and other BS “arguments” like it.
Automakers like Kia et al are doing you, me, and everyone in this space a favor by making and selling cars like the Stinger at all. Why? All of them would be just as well or better off making and selling ANOTHER CUV/SUV instead of a product we, at least ostensibly, would like.
What do we do when a legitimately good car like the “Stinger” shows up? Turn up our noses.
The writing has been on the wall for a long time, guys n’ gals. In 10-15 years the only relatively affordable “cool” car(s) left will be the Mustang and/or the Corvette. And even then the Mustang will have electric CUV variant. We should be at least praising the “Stingers” if we cannot buy them.