On Tuesday, twenty years after the fall of the wall that separated the two Germanies, German Chancellor Angela Merkel went to Washington. For the first time since Germany’s Chancellor Adenauer in 1957, the topmost German addressed Congress—to roaring applause.
There was another wall. A wall of silence. Nobody in the US government—owner of General Motors—supposedly had heard a whisper that their most expensive ward of the state had changed their mind, decided to keep Opel, and go home alone. Before the speech, Angela chatted with Barack about high finance and the crock of shit also known as global warming. Not a peep about Opel.
After the speech—at Dulles her Luftwaffe Airbus is already getting ready for departure—Merkel dines at the Ritz Carlton in DC with the world’s most prominent bankers. Flanked by Dominique Strauss-Kahn, chief of the IMF, and Robert Zoellick, head of the World Bank, Merkel celebrates her success. While the dinner guests have their dessert, the cell phone of Merkel’s economic advisor, Jens Weidmann, vibrates. Fritz is on the line. Henderson tells Weidmann that GM will keep Opel after all. Angela flies home fuming. Only when the Airbus is in the air does GM go public with the news, Financial Times Germany writes.
At home in Germany, disgust and indignation reigns. Even GME’s boss Carl-Peter Forster is mad as hell. He says, the decision is “kaum nachvollziehbar” (hard to follow), a euphemism in Germany that is usually understood as “incredibly dickheaded.” Asked by Autobild what will happen next, Forster says, “I don’t know. I believe, the important gentlemen that made that decision don’t know it either.” No wonder Forster is looking for another job. He sounds like he has already signed.
The heads of Germany’s other automakers appear happy. Another sign of bad news: what they like can only be real bad for Opel. BILD called VW CEO Martin Winterkorn who pretended to be sympathetic: “I hope this will end well. I like a strong competitor more than a weak one.” Winterkorn’s nose didn’t grow as he said that. His colleague at Audi, Rupert Stalder, doesn’t find “the decision too surprising. GM reconsidered what they have in Opel.” Dieter Zetsche of Daimler “never could understand why GM wanted to leave Europe as a big blank spot on their map of the world.”
Even Magna’s Deputy head, Siegfried Wolf, appears appreciative: “A decision was made and must be noted. Life goes on.”
How will it go on? The bridge loan, given by the German government comes due by end of November. Jens Weidman, the man with the vibrating cell phone said to Der Spiegel that Germany wants its money back and that Germany is not much inclined to help a GM-owned Opel with more funds. “One can assume that the board of GM hardly cancels the sale of Opel without having thought about how to finance Opel for he coming months,” said the advisor while vitriol was dripping out of both sides of his mouth.
Der Spiegel thinks that you, oops, that we as US tax payers will have to carry a heavy load. The €3B which GM has budgeted appear as “hardly realistic.” Opel’s losses of 2009 and 2010 alone will be higher than €3B. Necessary investments into new technology will eat up another €10B, reckons an expert consulted by the magazine. Also, Opel is only present in Europe. No Opel in China or Brazil. The European and Russian markets are shrinking. In post-Abwrackprämien Germany, sales are expected to drop by a million units, or around 25 percent in 2010. Forecaster CSM Worldwide predicts Russian auto sales will fall by half this year, to 1.43 million cars.
GM may think that after the Brussel’s letter writing burlesque, the German government may be forced to hand them the €4.5B Berlin had offered Magna. “Think again” is the message from Brussels. EU competition commissioner Neelie Kroes said that “we cannot force member states to offer government help. We can and will scrutinize any government help whether it complies with EU regulations.” A warning shot over the bow of other EU states that may want to offer GM money to keep plants open. EU industry commissar Günter Verheugen also warned the EU member states not to start a bidding war, says Reuters.
However, there is another little item: Next year are elections in North Rhine Westphalia. Berlin’s center-right collation needs that state to maintain their thin lead in the Bundesrat, the upper house of Germany. The Bundesrat can block government decisions, just like Congress can. North Rhine Westphalia is home to a large Opel plant in Bochum. Political expedience may again trump economic reason in Deutschland.
Possibly, something along theses lines may be on the agenda—or not—of Guido Westerwelle, Germany’s new Foreign Minister. Not only homophobic government representatives in Washington expect his visit today with apprehension. It is unknown whether the openly gay minister will bring his significant other Michael Mronz along on the trip to DC. Next week, his counterpartesse Hillary Clinton will come to Berlin.
Tense talks ahead.
Angela Merkel giving the Nazi salute. Boy that is a cheap shot.
Should she really be doing that? It makes the French and the Poles nervous.
Very interesting story on a very interesting story.
I think Magna came out a winner here. No wonder co-CEO Siegfried Wolf says that “Life goes on.” Had Magna bought Opel, that may not be true for Magna. Best not get too close to someone struggling not to slip under the waves.
(That’s not a Nazi salute.)
She’s simply waving. We can still wave, can’t we?
—
BBC (GlobalNews: 05 Nov 09 AM on Podcast, released at about 8 hours ago) is reporting that Opel’s workers are preparing to strike. They briefly report that “two factories in Germany face closure.”
BBC also reports this was quite an unpleasant shock for Merkel.
German worker trust in GM now zero:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8343934.stm
” … their most expensive ward of the state … ”
Uh, that is probably AIG @$182 billion. Not that two wrongs make a right.
“Before the speech, Angela had chatted with Barak about high finance, and the crock of shit, also known as global warming.”
Repeat after me, TTAC is not a forum for pushing political agenas, or so I’m told.
“A warning shot over the bow of other EU states that may want to offer GM money to keep plants open.”
So it would have been OK for Germany to pay Opel to keep jobs in Germany, but Poland, France and the UK dare not have the temerity to play the same game. Got it.
Dang, Bertel,
You lost me after the “crock of shit comment.”
How about a comment more along the lines of “global warming, a phenomenom believed by the vast majority of scientist who study the environment to be influenced by human activities, but I believe has yet to be proven . . . “
That’s a Roman salute, not Nazi. D’Annunzio must be spinning in his grave.
Yeah, this is way too cheap and easy, but it sure is fun:
The new nationalized Opel is going to focus on down-market cars – ‘people’s cars’….
The marketing push will be tested in Austria. If that goes well, next will be Checkoslovakia, and then Poland. It’s expected that success in Poland may make competitors nervous enough to protest Opel’s sales strategy, but France will be the next target market regardless. The British market is, historically, tough to crack.
Bertel Schmitt the climatologist? Yes, I too stopped reading after that comment. Anybody that lame to feel confident opposing the conclusions of the world body of scientists could not possibly have anything valuable to say.
Merkel should know not to trust anyone called Fritz!
Fritz = Friedrich = “Ruling with Peace” (old German)
Something like that anyway. Bertel?
Didn’t Magna also make a $300M (or so) bridge loan to Opel? If so, I suspect that they, too, would like their money back.
I’m pretty sure the “crock of shit” was intended to be a Lutzism.
I thought the slam against the global climate change hoax was apt. Yes, the stakes in this debate are very high, that’s why the power-grabbing hoax deserves to be met with factual refutation and, at times, outright contempt.
This is exactly what I expected to happen. I cannot believe that anyone is surprised about it.
Opel not present outside of Europe? This is simply not true. They may be badged as Chevrolets, or Holdens, or Chevys but they are sold around the world. Most GM world cars are based on Opel-engineered platforms. Heck, even American Cavalier has clear Opel DNA. Only the weird American-only pickup trucks and large on outside/small on inside cars like the Grand Prix and Cadillac DeVille that have no hope whatsoever to sell outside NA come from American engineering operations.
Mostly, I just ignore the “crock of shit” rantings, nowadays. The scientists who do work in the field almost universally believe that digging up fossil fuels and burning them to increase atmospheric CO2 is going to have a dramatic effect. The number of researchers actively working in the field who think there’s no imminent threat is tiny and they don’t have any reasonable explanation for why the increase in CO2 won’t heat the planet, contenting themselves with their own, as-yet-unproven pet theories.
Internet blather, frequently right-wing political in nature, often fuelled by money from fossil fuel interests, blows the opposition to ACC out of all proportion and/or misrepresents research or just outright lies or cherry-picks data and reporting. And there’s no obvious way to stop the deceitful, lying sons-of-bitches, so why get excited? If they’ve managed to persuade people that a group of scientists have gotten together and agreed to collectively lie about their research to foster some dark political purpose (world government, confiscation of all wealth, subjugate Western powers to the bidding of the UN or whatever) even though it’s clearly not in the best interests of these scientists to do so, then we’re screwed and there’s nothing I can do about it.
So, why get excited? Denial of good scientific work is just one more way in which the US accelerates its own decline. Creationism does its bit, too, I might add. I’m certainly sorry to see it happen but I guess we get what we deserve. The collateral damage will be immense but I’ve done my bit to reduce my footprint, so my conscience is clear.
It’s really too bad… collective action to promote and fund developments in green power could have fuelled a real recovery and led to an export boom. Oooh… “collective action…” Bad, bad bad.
Retired and Order of Canada member Buzz Hargrove ex CAW head, yesterday on a local Radio Show commented the the new GM Board was out to lunch on this decision, he said it was a wrong move and also the new GM Board is not made up of Auto people but out siders, who know nothing about the Auto business!
I do think there is some truth to global warming. But I don’t see where human’s are influencing it. Th climate has changed for billions of years without man, how do we know it’s not just a normal change? I kinda of like global warming myself. Just a short time ago (in geologic time) the place where I live used to under 3 miles of ice! I guess those caveman camp fires caused all of that to melt.
Also, I can’t believe that a German Chancillor hasn’t made a formal visit to Washington since 1957! Some ally, even our enemies (USSR/China) have made formal visits more often than that!
Guys, it’s a throwaway reference to something that you’d think would be pretty well known on this site, that Bob Lutz has famously described global warming as a ‘crock of shit’.
It doesn’t have any bearing on the actual article.
Kudos to those who recognized the “crock of shit” as a Lutzism. For those who failed this test there are remedial reading assignments for you.
Bertel, I don’t see Opel/Vauxhall as being viable long term as a stand alone Euro centric auto maker. The European operation needs a link up with a major player for the long term, preferably one that has world wide reach with regards to platform sharing.
GM isn’t the perfect candidate, with all its impolitic baggage – and – internal bureaucratic culture – but its already there with no major integration issues as would be the case in combining with FIAT or Chinese player.
Let’s bottom line this one here folks….
GM is going all in that when the check comes due at the end of the month. Government (some government, any government Deutsche, UK, Spanish, even Uncle Sugar – take your pick) is going to cave in and supply some cash.
It’s not like its never happened before…..
Bancho: “Kudos to those who recognized the “crock of shit” as a Lutzism. For those who failed this test there are remedial reading assignments for you.”
There’s no “Lutz” context there, so there’s no reason to believe it isn’t a “Bertelism.”
Further, it’s a “Lutzism” that outraged many people who take ACC seriously, as Bertel almost certainly knows.
If one happens to believe that ACC science is fundamentally sound, then one also see quite a bit of risk to future populations – which may even include one’s own children and grandchildren.
Some negative feedback shouldn’t be surprising.
FleetofWheel: “I thought the slam against the global climate change hoax was apt. Yes, the stakes in this debate are very high, that’s why the power-grabbing hoax deserves to be met with factual refutation and, at times, outright contempt.”
The “hoax” is the idea that it’s only a “power-grabbing hoax.” If you believe it’s a “power-grabbing hoax,” please explain who benefits and how and just how those who will benefit could persuade a goodly majority – or even a goodly fraction – of the world’s climate scientists to line up in support of the scam. What’s the payoff to the scientists? How do the scientists manage the damage to their reputations if enough people break ranks? Why would they overlook the economic disadvantage to their own countries (you know, the places where they work, live and eat and depend on economic vitality for their own sustenance) and their own progeny? Why not just drum up some sort of war (you know, beat the drums about some tin-pot and reviled but toothless Middle Eastern dictator and then invade his country) or just go for power the old fashioned way; by making money (the research and mathematical skills necessary to become a pretty good researcher would also make one an excellent Wall Street trader/dealmaker/analyst) and then bribing Congress? Who was the far-sighted visionary who put together this conspiracy back in the 1800’s and persuaded Sylvius Arrhenius to do fake research into the properties of CO2 and the atmosphere?
C’mon, FleetofWheel, you’ve dropped an allegation that thousands of people are knowingly lying when it’s not at all obvious that knowingly lying is in their best interest. Prove it.
“Smell my armpit.”
Ah, the perils of governments getting involved in the auto business that they don’t understand. We won’t even talk about the other huge chucnk of private sector they would like to shanghai.
Thanks for the crock-o-shit comment. While Al’s still on his highly profitable global chicken little tour, I think at least he’s going to have to leave his hockey stick at home.
…he said it was a wrong move and also the new GM Board is not made up of Auto people but out siders, who know nothing about the Auto business!
Oh, yes, and the old board really knew the auto business. Sure.
Boards of Directors aren’t supposed to be insiders. They’re supposed to be a check and review committee for upper management whose job it is to ensure that said executives are working for the company’s best interests and not those of the executives. If they need help (eg, automotive market expertise) they go outside to get it.
GM’s old board, by comparison, pretty much just sowed up, earned a paycheque and buggered off.
KixStart…………Kudos. I couldn’t have said it any better.
There’s no “Lutz” context there, so there’s no reason to believe it isn’t a “Bertelism.”
I would think that “Crock of Shit” should be pretty familiar to most regular readers here. I really doubt Bertel meant in a factual sense and was instead just being witty. And indeed taking a stab at Bob “Why, yes, I’m VP of Marketing now” Lutz
Note, I’m on the pro side of the AGCC argument. I’m also trying really hard not to get armpit-deep in what would be a completely off-topic debate.
Stereotypical stupid GM move. How many Opels will be sold in Europe and Russia now? Anyone who thinks this will turn out other than an ongoing “us vs. them” theme isn’t thinking things through. Sorta like how the Board of Bystanders did it.
OK so then Magna and its Russian partner buy Opel which has fallen into bankruptcy from the sympathetic German judge for a fraction of what they were willing to pay. GM and its shareholders….learn a new version of “prepackaged”, and not the pretty kind either.
The Magna/Russki deal for Opel makes about as much sense as the Cerberus deal for Chrysler a few years ago. We know how that turned out. Stronach has a lot of ambition but that doesn’t mean he has much sense. Ambition and reality often don’t go well together. That is probably why his his deputy, S. Wolf, seems so relieved at GM’s return.
As for the Russian side – when is it ever part of a good business plan to link up with a Russian mobster/oligarch and Putin puppet? Is there long term viability for Opel when there is not a lot of long term viability for Russia itself?
The reaction of the German government and union is thus curious. Why the outrage when the search for someone to take Opel was supposedly a matter of stark and sudden political necessity, as in jobs=voters for Merkel, and when all options post-GM were, in terms of long term viability, next to absurd? If Opel as a standalone is not viable in the new global auto market would a Magna/Sberbank Opel be much more viable?
I suspect, without any proof that the Magna deal for Opel was just an interim play before Opel went to one of the larger German auto makers. Stronach would hold the fort until it became politic in the not so distant future for BMW or Daimler to absorb it. Stronach, we note, builds vehicles for BMW in Austria.
All this is not very Euro spirited of the German government, which would explain in part why the Eurocrats started to balk at what everyone assumed months ago was a done deal.
Exhibitions of German nationalism tends to make non-German Europeans nervous even now. The Opel workers should be relieved, you’d think, that they are back with a new GM rather than the apparent alternatives – would you want to depend for your paycheque on a Canadian/Russian business “entity” that was only brought into being for the sake of taking over your company? Can you spell fly-by-night? But then perhaps contempt for America is very trendy these days in Germany, Obama notwithstanding, and GM is quintessentially American.
“The marketing push will be tested in Austria. If that goes well, next will be Checkoslovakia, and then Poland. It’s expected that success in Poland may make competitors nervous enough to protest Opel’s sales strategy, but France will be the next target market regardless. The British market is, historically, tough to crack.”
Egads, it does sound like a replay of 1938-40, except for the Low Countries!
Except now there is no “Checkoslovakia”….
[How about instead, ‘Get a car, get a Czech’?]
In any case, vvk has a point; Opel’s value to GM may not be in their production capacity per se, or even in some of their current models, but in their continued technology infusion potential to the rest of the corporation. We’ll see if GMNA actually uses it well, but I’m not holding my breath.
“[Global warming is a crock]” is an opinion about an environmental theory, not a political one. And it is a crock, plenty of qualified professionals with contrary evidence. No amount of trying to paint the opposing opinion as knuckle draggers is going to prove the global warming alarmists’ case.
kamiller42: “And it is a crock, plenty of qualified professionals with contrary evidence.”
Enlighten us. Name some.
@kixstart and mad scientist:
I do not necessarily agree with the “crock of shit” sentiment but it is absolutely a Lutzism if you’ve really been paying attention on this site for any length of time.
In the context of this article I see it as a bit of snark and nothing more. The Lutz connection is simply the GM/Opel thread.
Internet blather, frequently right-wing political in nature, often fuelled by money from fossil fuel interests, blows the opposition to ACC out of all proportion and/or misrepresents research or just outright lies or cherry-picks data and reporting.
What’s important to understand about the anti-AGCC debate is that it uses the same basic toolkit as anti-vaccination and Creationism/ID: don’t teach facts, teach the controversy.**
Instead of coming out with research that directly refutes climate change (or the safety of vaccines, or evolution), the bulk of the opposition pumps the idea that there is disagreement while not actually exploring the nature of disagreement. This works because it so much easier to sow doubt than to do actual science. People don’t understand science—many actually resent it—but they do understand and are influenced by the same kind of histrionics that are used in bad legal dramas.
That there are no peer-reviewed, authoritative studies that refute AGCC is telling, even though Exxon et al would shower with gold the team that produced such a study. There’s lots of studies that talk about degrees, timelines and effects, but not a single damn one that refutes it as a whole. You’d think that with the billions the oil companies and associated industries have been awash in that they’d be able to drag up something.
This “conspiracy to control” is a funny one, and an extension of the doubt-sowing strategy. On one side, we have scientists and granola-heads, some politicians and a few small companies. On the other we have some of the oldest, most powerful commerical and government entities on the planet who are fighting against a concept that will cost them billions of dollars and rewrite their entire business model. And people think the conspiracy is on the part of the former?
Modern journalism helps this along through a false need to give airtime to all viewpoints, no matter how flimsy one side of the argument might be. Unless they’re Fox, in which case you get one side all the time.
** Big Tobacco did the same thing, for the record.
Instead of coming out with research that directly refutes climate change (or the safety of vaccines, or evolution), the bulk of the opposition pumps the idea that there is disagreement while not actually exploring the nature of disagreement. This works because it so much easier to sow doubt than to do actual science.
+1. It’s just a FUD campaign, sold to an audience that doesn’t like the idea of taking personal responsibility for how their behavior impacts others.
Modern journalism helps this along through a false need to give airtime to all viewpoints
Exactly. Not all positions are created equal. When one side has virtually all the science, it’s ridiculous for anyone to pretend that all of the viewpoints are equally legitimate.
This is what the “global warming” panic is all about.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=158141
Headline – Flash! The sun warms the earth….
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=114261
OK so it doesn’t take “Captain Obvious” to figure it all out, right? Even a vastly underpaid Russian can figure it out (not to mention at least 700 highly reputed scientists worldwide).
Which begs the obvious question about why so many so-called scientists claim global warming from CO2 (when CO2 is what plant life uses to make oxygen).
The obvious answer is follow the politics, money & power. The political powers that be want to control us by frightening us; they want to take away the affluent nations’ monies and redistribute them, too.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled automotive news….
BTW it is most certainly a good idea to conserve, use only what is needed, etc.
Look at how much more efficient cars are compared to even 10 years ago.
Look at how much less energy homes use, too.
All good things.
It’s also be a brilliant move to not import 70% of our energy needs, but the foolish powers that be seem to believe that we should continue to do that rather than utilize US sourced energy.
Otherwise, why would they have stopped offshore drilling and other drilling which Geo. Bush approved, as soon as they obtained office?
Just follow the money trail.
The Opel fiasco is going to come back and snap GM on the rump, big time.
It’s illegal (supposedly) to use US funds for non-US operations.
GM has to try to rescue GMDaewoo (and supposedly did so without resorting to US taxpayer money – and if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you).
Same thing with Opel. It’ll be taxpayer money, illegally spent.
Why even bother writing rules and putting laws into effect, if those writing them simply ignore then and wink at the perpetrators?
It’s illegal (supposedly) to use US funds for non-US operations.
Once out of bankruptcy they were free to use said funds as they wish.
I don’t think this is over on the Russian side either. Yesterday Autonews reported that non other than Putin himself has expressed his displeasure with this and intends to call the Pres to see what’s up.
His point was that GM put Opel in a Trust during the bankruptcy process and it’s now not their decision to make – it’s the trust’s.
So, rnc, we taxpayers have absolutely no say over this even though we were told that GM couldn’t use taxpayer funds outside the USA?
In other words (gasp) – the politicians lied to us (yet again)?
Why, I’ve never heard of such a thing!
I’m indignant!
(sarcasm off)
It’s also be a brilliant move to not import 70% of our energy needs, but the foolish powers that be seem to believe that we should continue to do that rather than utilize US sourced energy.
Otherwise, why would they have stopped offshore drilling and other drilling which Geo. Bush approved, as soon as they obtained office?
Just follow the money trail.
The money trail such as British Petroleum who last time I checked wasn’t Amuricun? Or do you mean USA as Union of South Africa? Either way, the money trail does not lend itself well to Al Gore or the environmentalist movement. However, big oil and big coal have more than enough tentacles to keep us in a strangle hold.
Possibly, something along theses lines may be on the agenda – or not – of Guido Westerwelle, Germany’s new Foreign Minister. Not only homophobic government representatives in Washington expect his visit today with apprehension. It is unknown whether the openly gay minister will bring his significant other Michael Mronz along on the trip to DC.
Did I miss something here? Is there something that relates to the article knowing the minister is openly homosexual? Whats with the right winged snark in this article? I’m all about discussing the issue of GM reniging on its promise to sell Opel, but was hoping it would stick to the actual issue, not social morays that have little to do with the morass.
Several posters have pointed out that GM’s board of directors, our government representatives doling out our tax money, and our elected representatives don’t know anything about the car business.
Nobody does.
Being able to recite the history of pick up trucks will not make a person able to know the future. Knowing which vehicles sold or didn’t sell in the past will not help much either.
Reading the book “The Black Swan” will help a leader by reminding the leader to be flexible.
Will we run out of oil next week? Will we find a huge new oil field in Maine next month? Will the Taliban take over Saudi Arabia next year? Will carbon fiber become very cheap to make? Will bees die off and our plants won’t get pollinated?
The leader who can respond to a “black swan” will be the success not the one who only knows how to keep doing the same thing.
Who knows if this leader is now building Apteras or washing machines.
Interesting comments about the GM board of directors. From my experience, I’m convinced that the board of a public company should try to do only one thing — hire and fire the CEO, and set his or her salary. Nothing else.
Those who try to impose other duties on the board of directors are, I think, pissing in the wind. Boards meet rarely, and have access to only limited, filtered data. Good boards or bad, they cannot realistically do much.
As evidence, has any company been a success or failure based on the quality of its board of directors? I can’t think of any example. Anyone else have one?
@Daanii2
A big part of GM’s problem was the CEO being chairman of the board and everyone else on the board were yes men. While, it wasn’t the only problem, it certainly allowed the problems to continue for far too long.
Back to the topic at hand though… GM was willing to sell part of Opel. Germany tried to force them to sell to Magna, in hopes of saving jobs, which wasn’t going to happen. There is simply too much
automobile production capacity worldwide.
Germany denied other bidders any real chance of allowing other bidders. This was a big mistake for the German govt. Letting Opel restructure through bankruptcy would have been the right choice. Now, that probably won’t happen either. Opel will likely restructure outside of bankruptcy, Germans will lose jobs, like they were going to anyway, and lots of production will be moved outside of Germany because it will be cheaper.
Mr. Carpenter: “This is what the “global warming” panic is all about. (Video of Lord Monckton claiming that President Obama is about to hand over “sovereignty” to Copenhagen)… Headline – Flash! The sun warms the earth…. (WingNutDaily article about a Russian astronomer with a theory)”
Let’s see… you’ve got Monckton telling the Free Enterprise Institute what they want to hear. You don’t suppose Monckton and the FEI have political agendas of their own, do you?
And it sure makes a lot of sense that President Obama’s going to run for office (which is certainly a way of putting his life on the line) and achieve every child’s lifelong dream of becoming President and then hand over the keys to some bureacrat in Copenhagen.
By the way… Monckton has “seen the document” but it didn’t occur to him to fire up the photocopier and make a copy for us? And Monckton says, ominously, that it didn’t mention “elections” even once. Why should it? Most treaties don’t. For putting up such an absurd straw man, I’d have to say that Monckton holds his audience’s intellect in very low regard.
And then you’ve got a Russian astronomer with a new pet theory of his own – that’s not endorsed by any other astronomer, let alone climate scientists.
I just love that. Twenty-five years ago, you wouldn’t have believed a Russian scientist who said the Sun rose in the East and set in the West and now he’s the last word on climate.
Did you suppose none of the other climate scientists in the world noticed that giant, hot orb in the sky raining down light and heat upon the Earth and nobody bothere to ask, “Gee… what if it’s not a constant heat source?” Well, here’s a news flash for you… they did ask those questions and – surprise! – they looked into it and the net, periodic change effect is smaller than the CO2-driven warming.
In other words, for that and several other factors (like El Nino and La Nina and the PDO and probably some other things that haven’t quite been figured out, yet), the pace of warming is not linear! And this is, shockingly enough, known and widely reported by scientists who are a) actually diligently trying ot figure out the truth and b) have signed on to the idea that, yes, we do have a problem.
People. Honestly, why this so much bleeding about the crock of shit?
Are you THAT sensitive? For those words? LOL
That there is global warming is more than evident/proved already.
And the ones complaining about Frau Merkel’s wave. Please, it’s obvious she was waving. Should we called Nazis because of waving? LOL
Political correctness is FAIL!!!!, a true crock of shit. Lutz FTW.
And Prius are a freaking fad.
I would like to know how is GM going to handle a pissed off German government and Opel’s unions/workers, the UE and the money they need to keep that operation afloat.
This where the chess game is going to be now. So, this soup opera will continue.
Nevermind the intention of Bertel’s “crock of shit” phrase, it sure didn’t help to keep the discussion in the comments focussed…
I don’t think anybody seriously suggests the earth climate has never changed, but the question is whether humans have caused that and then if the government should be able to reward some at the expense of others (even more than they do now).
Nice to see that referring to “crock of shit” in connection with global warming inevitably helps to induce Pavlov reactions with our do-gooders.
Predictable and boring, as usual. It is embarrassing, however, to see that masses of people believe in highly-complex mathematical models (man-made and error-prone, of course) intended to predict the future of the entire earth.
I’ll combat that by having some CIGARETTES (IMAGINE! WORSE THAN HITLER) & beers.
Heil Opel, anyway.
KixStart wrote:
Denial of good scientific work is just one more way in which the US accelerates its own decline. Creationism does its bit, too, I might add.
Two sides of the same coin, aren’t they?
I’ve never understood how people can have enough faith in science to get on an airplane (or allow a surgeon to operate on them) yet be so willing to reject science when it contradicts their holy book … or threatens their pocket book. Last time I checked, biologists and climatologists were using the same scientific method as aerospace engineers and medical researchers.
As the protester’s sign in the famous photo put it: Morans!
+1 for the global warming is a crock of shit. A couple years ago when I was in university, several students, each taking a doctorate in the faculty of science, proved to me, using proven scientific principles, that man made global warming is false. In the seventies scientists said there was going to be another ice age and it didn’t happen. It is amazing to me how much faith people have in this theory. Most practitioners in the field of science claim to believe in global warming because they are scared they will lose their job. That and the global warming theory, like most doomsday theories, prove to be cash cows. Scientists need to come up with something to land them public money so they can put food on the table.
Additionally, the U.S. is dealing with a crippling debt and many other problems simultaneously, so putting borrowed money towards a made up problem will only accelerate its demise.
Lastly, religion does not cause people to deny good scientific work, the global warming fanatics that put all their faith in phoney science are the true religious nut jobs.
It’s always interesting to see which issues people like to talk heatedly about but never listen. Global warming. Religion. Abortion. And increasingly, politics.
Back in my youth it was interesting to discuss some of those issues. Now little discussion takes place. Most exchanges are full of sound and fury, but signify nothing.
Everyone talks. No one listens.
I turned my mind off in reading after the “crock of shit” gratuitous political crack about global warming.
I am compelled to respond to this offhand statements of ‘fact’ because it is false. The science is in regarding global warming. Amongst the scientists that devote their lives to the field there is no longer any question about the fact of global warming and its primary causes. Their agreement is not a secret. What to do about it is an important issue for our time and people need to be well informed to contribute their considered opinion to that debate, which certainly has political and economic dimensions.
Uninformed opinion about the facts should be called out for what it is.
I do not mean to offend Mr. Schmitt, I have enjoyed reading his many contributions. He (and others) should, however, take some time to learn the facts re: global warming. The blog-o-sphere provides homes for opinion and articles (like those cited above) that have not survived scrutiny by the scientific community. For example, sunspot activity and solar output changes as an input to global temperatures have been studied for a very long time and the lack of correlation (in fact an anti-correlation!) with the global warming trends since 1970 is well established.
Bottom line, please stop with the gratuitous political comments on what is otherwise a fine website.
If Al Gore has such a good case, why is he so afraid to debate it?
All I can do is roll my eyes.
The Best & Brightest know that the crock of shit is a Lutzism.
The very Best & most Brightest point it out. To no avail. The discussion drones on.
+ 1, Daanii2 – everybody talks, nobody listens.
I’m in California right now. Today, I snapped up two conversations.
Conversation 1: No more Christmas carols in stores, people might get offended.
Conversation 2: No more men dressing up as women during Halloween, gays may get offended.
Can’t wait to get back to China, where nobody bats an eye if I run around in drag, belting out “Silent Night!”
“The Best & Brightest know that the crock of shit is a Lutzism.”
Sure, we know that. What we don’t know is whether or not it’s a “Bertelism.” In the context you used, it could be either one. Certainly, President Obama and Chancellor Merkel take it seriously. Neither one of them would have called it a “crock…”
I’ve been reading Scientific American since I was as little kid. Speculation about and then research into increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere goes back decades, yet the blogosphere is full of “Al Gore the scientist and creator of Global Warming” and “Al Gore the high priest of the Church of Global Warming.” That’s totally unwarranted and totally bullshit. And the weight of scientific opinion is, in fact, on the side of ACC. The effect is measurable, real and while there’s a lot of statistics and fuzzy numbers, the basic ideas are plain and simple and derive from three irrefutable observations:
1. CO2 will trap heat. You can determine this in a lab. If your planet’s atmosphere has more CO2 added to it then, absent other factors, your planet’s temperature will rise.
2. CO2 levels are rising. This is measureed through ice cores with good measurements that go back hundreds of thousands of years and via systematic direct atmospheric measurement since the late 50s.
3. Humans are putting the extra CO2 into the atmosphere. This is known two ways, first via estimates of human activity (burning fossil fuels, deforeatation, etc) and second by direct radioisotopic measurement. These two sources agree with each other.
Calling something that is this well-grounded in good science and has been such a long time in development by a wide range of scientists a “crock of shit” is irresponsible.
Oh my (excuse me) GOD.
I’m taking my red dress, my high heels, my bootlegged “Rudolph, the red nosed reindeer” CD, and I’m outta here.
Before I do this, I am closing this discussion.