My father is a car guy in his late fifties, One day, he decided to buy a sports car. Anyone who’s clocked the age of the men in the Viagra ads should realize this isn’t an unusual phenomenon. Men fifty-and-over are the heart and soul of the U.S. sports car market. And the Chevrolet Corvette occupies the bulls-eye center of that prime demographic. The ‘Vette is also one of GM’s few bright spots: the only world-class car in Chevrolet’s showroom of mediocrity. Anyway, my father tried to buy a Corvette– and failed.
My Dad’s shopping list included several German cars, a couple of Japanese roadsters and the C6 Corvette. There was only one problem with his domestic selection: he couldn't get a test drive. A little wheel time in a box-fresh Porsche Cayman? No problem. To Infiniti and beyond? Right this way. A quick cut and thrust in GM's halo car? Forgeddaboutit. Not one of the Chevy dealers in our suburban New York county would give my Dad five minutes of Corvette wheel time– unless he bought the car first.
Dealers had three explanations for this “no test pilots need apply” rule. First, “it’s not our policy to allow people to test drive a sixty thousand dollar car.” Second, “people who buy these cars don’t want any miles on them.” Third; hey, you gotta understand: we get a lot of joy riders.
Obviously, Chevy dealers have been scraping the bottom of the barrel so long they can't distinguish between "time wasters" and serious customers. Or perhaps they simply don't want to distract their highly professional sales force from far more important jobs like flogging Aveos, Cobalts and other marginally profitable machinery.
Or maybe they're just lazy, short-sighted, arrogant, amoral opportunists. Why work hard to sell a car you don't need to, or you ain't got?
How much effort would it take for Chevy dealers to create a proper 'Vetting procedure, so potential customers like my father could get behind the wheel, realize the dream of a lifetime and buy a damn Corvette? My Dad's experience– or lack thereof– highlights Chevy dealers' complete insensitivity to the over-arching importance of long-term customer relationships.
Of course, VIP ropes around hot new models are one thing. Price gouging is the next.
When the Solstice and Sky fell to Earth, Pontiac and Saturn dealers had a field day. “Market adjustments” and “demand pricing” were deployed to gouge both regular customers AND those who hadn't darkened a Pontiac or Saturn dealership in decades. Many dealers slapped a new price sheet next to the official window sticker, adding markups of three to five thousand dollars.
You’d think Pontiac dealers would have learned their lesson when the Aussie-built, suppository-shaped GTO went from hero to zero in less than year. (There are still untitled 2006 and 2005 GTO's sitting on Pontiac dealer lots.) In a sense they did: grab the cash while the grabbing's good, 'cause it'll be back to [no] business as usual in no time.
I don’t mean to pick on GM. Chrysler dealers jacked-up the prices on the first highly-horsed SRT8 variants (Charger, 300C, Magnum, and Grand Cherokee). Ford dealers added extra profit on the new Thunderbird, Mustang GT, Shelby ‘Stang and Ford GT.
And American manufacturers aren’t the only car companies hoarding hay when the sun shines. For almost a full year after production, the Mercedes SL55 AMG couldn't be had less than $60k over sticker. The short-lived BMW Z8 also commanded premiums so high you had to be high to pay them.
And yet there are some important differences between the domestics’ price gouging and that of their Euro-counterparts.
For one thing, Mercedes and BMW already have plenty of footfall for their entry level and mid-market products. For another, they tacked a premium onto premium products. Someone who can afford a $120k Benz can probably swing $160k. Try applying that logic to the Pontiac Solstice. A customer shopping for a $24k car can afford $29k? Maybe, maybe not.
In fact, it's highly likely that a dwindling number of fifty-something Ameribrand die-hards are the only customers willing to pay premiums on sexy low-end domestic models. Do they care that the extra money's destined to disappear at trade-in time? Who knows? Can the domestics afford to risk punishing their most enthusiastic customers? I think not.
From a buyer''s point-of-view, there's only one way to beat a dealer's narrow-minded "you can't touch this" refrain and price gouging. Tell them to piss off, and then send a few tell-all emails to the corporate mothership AND the dealer group HQ. Keep calling until you find a dealer willing to play ball, shop used, buy something else or just wait for reality to return to the marketplace (as it always does).
As for my old man, he couldn't do it. He simply couldn't drop 60 large on a new sports car without a test drive. And GM wonders why it’s losing market share.
Justin, what you are describing is classic, and the answer is in your essay. Dealers who have no experience in high end merchandise are in a poor position to market it. The porsche, infiniti, mercedes sales depts. knows quality, how to sell it and who their customers are. Their sales force in suits or pants suits; probably be an older retired exec or middle manager from some business now selling fine autos. These are people who can tell your father, "sir if you have to haggle about price, you can't afford it". In fact, they won't have to say that, because the aura of the product and sales presentation including bringing the vehicle for the test drive to under their drive through portochere will be up-scale. The shop will look like a hospital operating room and your father will feel like "he belongs (or should) belong here". The chevy dealer can't do that, he has no other car besides his couple of corvettes a year to practice on.
They’re so silly…
Years ago I wanted to test drive a Mercury Capri Convertible. The dealer stuck me in a preprepped car with no air in the tires and told me to drive in circles in the back lot. I stopped the car in the middle of this, got out without closing the door and left the engine running right there.
Needless to say I did not buy a Capri or anything else from that dealer.
Pathetic and stupid. I always thought one of the few advantages to age was the fact you have some money in your pocket. Too bad this salesman was too stupid to know that.
I would think that every Chevy dealer would have one or two “Corvette certified” salesman that were a little higher up on the scumbag food chain. Experienced and trained to know everything about the car.
It should be no problem for such a person to be able to determine a joyrider from a serious buyer after talking to him for no more than 15 minutes. Let the kid who just starting selling cars 2 weeks ago schlep the Aveos.
And I’ve got news for guys who think that just because their new car has only 2.2 miles that it hasn’t been abused. Ever been to an assembly plant? Every car leaving the line (in domestic plants anyway) spins the tires on the way out. I also know a guy who used to unload Japanese car freighters in LA. They get paid by the ship, not by the hour. So – in short – the first mile is by far the hardest on the car.
troonbop:
It wasn’t “a” salesman. It was all the Chevy dealers in a highly populated urban area.
All of them.
I bought a Klein bicycle after a test ride. A high end bike like that is a big decision since I’m likely to put thousands of miles a year on it and own the thing for a number of years. The dealer adjusted the bike for me, it was prepped properly, and I was allowed to take my time with it. I paid full price without haggling because I got the proper treatment as a customer I deserved. Another shop was completely different with no test rides, bikes that were not assembled yet, and hairy eyeballs when I asked about warranty services.
Cars or bikes, same rules apply.
Well written illustration of a very simple matter:
In the U.S., franchise law hinders competition, and prevents manufacturers from becoming truly customer-friendly (unless they try awfully hard).
Probably, a lot of car salesmen will be posting comments, as they would, explaining that not all salesmen are bad. And so, a lot of car buyers will retort. It happens every time TTAC writes about the poor car-buying experience. What’s the difference?
I can’t blame the Chevy dealers. The vast majority of what they sell appeals to people with little money and/or brains. Would you want the average Chevy customer to go anywhere near a Corvette?
The problem here is that the average Chevy Corvette buyer is to the average Chevy Crapmobile buyer, as is the average Purdy Shotgun buyer to the average Hi-Point 9mm connoisseur.
The Corvette needs to become it’s own brand and sold through Cadillac dealers.
A couple of years ago a good friend of mine who is a bank VP decided he might like a Corvette.
So we dropped by a Chevrolet dealership where he lives, in Virginia. After at least twenty minutes of jumping through the hoops with first one, then two, then three of their people all tag-teaming him with various questions, we got up and walked out. At which point they asked my friend to wait just five more minutes and they’d pull a car up, but he was pissed.
They had at least a dozen Corvettes sitting on the front row with rusty rotors.
The reasoning behind no wheel time makes sense. Why would anyone buy a Corvette after having had wheel time in any other manufacturers equivalent (unless of course financial limitations are an issue)? It’s best to keep the mystique alive – especially for the Z06. “It’s sooo fast, it’s sooo agile, it’s sooo exotic and precious that a test drive is not needed to recognize it’s greatness. Now give us your money!” This is just a subversive psychological sales ploy that increases the seeming uniquity of a car to an unwitting buyer. A Honda dealership treated a co-worker of mine in like manner regarding a Civic Si.
GS650G:
I disagree that selling cars and selling bicycles are the same. I think there is a huge difference between the type of person who works in each field. A typical bike salesman is an enthusiast who loves the sport and enjoys sharing that enthusiasm with others. A typical car salesman is someone who, well, probably has different motivations.
This isn’t an unusual phenomena.
Virtually everyone in the car business that ever bought new went through the Car Nazi’s,”No test drive for you!” experience.
My late father-in-law was in the market for a Porsche. The dealership looked at his lack of ostentation and decided he wasn’t a credible customer. So…. he bought two at the nearest dealership and brought both of them up there. From what I understand, the salesman’s jaws literally went through the floor.
I would have similar troubles when I was writing auto reviews for the school paper. The most frequent offender was the Toyota dealership in Saratoga Springs. Sad part was, I already had a Celica GT-S as my daily driver.
I think it’s a local thing. Out here the Chevy dealers are literally dying to have someone test drive a vehicle like the Corvette. They’re actually pretty popular out here in North Atlanta.
I know ‘no test drive’ is laughed at in the auto industry, but it is very common in the motorcycle world.
In most areas, the only brands that allow test rides are Harley and BMW. Most others will not allow you a test ride. Dealers won’t even let you test ride a used bike, unless you are willing to ride around uninsured and with full liability should anything happen to the bike.
While there are other reasons for its collosal failure, the Corvette reminds me a bit of the Phaeton. They’re both WAY outside everything else their respective brands offer, and the dealers have no idea how to sell and service them (and by “service” I don’t just mean oil changes and repairs.) Further, some fence sitters who really might like to own a Vette or Phaeton simply can’t grasp having to deal with a Chevy or VW dealer for such a premium car. WTF does a VW dealer know about making a $75,000 car buyer feel like writing the check? VW’s epic quality problems with the rest of their line doesn’t help either. There’s little confidence to instill in a buyer to sign for a Phaeton.
The end result is there are lots of lightly used 2 year old Phaetons on the market for $30-$35K. And it’s not a bad car at all, really.
Back in 1976 or so, after Honda had introduced the Accord, I stopped by Herson’s Honda in Rockville, Md. I wasn’t in the market for a car, but several of my friends were thinking about buying Accords. I wanted to see what the fuss was all about.
As I was walking around the lot looking a salesman approached and asked if I’d like to take a test drive. I told him I was only looking. He then tossed me the keys. “Take it for a spin and let me know what you think,” he said. What, no fingerprints, no familay member as collateral, no I’ll drive it off the lot for you. Just here are the keys.
Well, I took that Accord for a drive. I told the salesman I was much impressed. I didn’t buy a car then, but, over the years, my family and I, and close friends that I’ve advised about, or assisted in, buying a car, have purchased eleven Honda’s. And I still tell people it’s hard to beat Honda engineering and build quality.
That first experience may not be the only reason I favor Honda’s, but, had it been a negative one, I’m sure they would have had a much harder time getting my business.
When Chevy was having its “Employee Pricing” give away a while back I thought I might be able to pick up a Cobalt SS for cheep to replace my ageing Jetta commuter car. I stopped by my Chevy dealer after work, in my work clothes (slacks, dress shirt, tie and sports coat) after wandering around the lot for 20 minutes, finally gained the attention of a salesman. I told him what I was looking for and that I wanted to test drive it. He gave me some song and dance about none being available, and “would you like to try the base model, they drive the same?” The guy made it clear that he felt I couldn’t afford the SS option and/or I was just there to take out a car for some recreational hooning.
In comparison, I walked into the MINI/BMW dealership owned by the same company, located on the other side of the parking lot, a few days later wearing old cut off jeans, sandals, and a t-shirt and had exceptional service, test drove a MINI and 3 BMW’s and no one questioned my ability to pay for any of them.
Now I am not a rich guy, but I do have a good job and a moderately good income. I can definitely afford to purchase a Cobalt SS and I just don’t appreciate some car salesman letting me know that he thinks I can’t.
Any guesses which dealership I will be buying from in the future?
A familiar story. A few years back I was in the market for a Corvette. I went to the local Chevy dealer (in a small north Texas town) and they had one on the showroom floor. I inquired about it and was told they would not take it off the floor for me to test drive – and in fact they wouldn't even let me sit in it! I asked about the price and they quoted me a price that was $5000 ABOVE the sticker price. Then they started making jokes about me buying it. And this in spite of the fact I had bought 3 other vehicles from the same dealership over a period of 3 years. (Yes, I've owned several Chevys, so when I talk about GM quality — or lack thereof — I speak from experience.) I told them to forget about it and left. I went home and started looking on the internet for other dealers with Corvettes in stock. This led me to Knippelmier Chevrolet in Blanchard, Oklahoma (just south of Oklahoma City). Not only did they have several new ones in stock, they had a selection of used ones as well. I contacted them via email and their internet sales manager told me they had all new 'Vettes at $4000 under sticker. I made the 140 mile trip and found the one I wanted. (Actually I wanted the Lingenfelter they had in their showroom but that was out of the question financially.) They let me take the one I picked out for a test drive — unaccompanied! No matter what questions I asked about it, the sales person knew the answer. I returned 3 days later with financing in hand and bought it. And much like Steve Lang's father-in-law, I took it back to the first dealership to rub their noses in the lost sale.
Kudos to your dad. I would have walked too. If they can’t even treat you right before the sale, there’s no chance of getting decent service after the sale.
this is my country….and these are our dealerships. run by the same Freuds that assemble and mastermind our chevy trucks and vettes. apparently the dealerships didn`t have a hostile net of green wobbly alien species that tried to neglect american products in favour of superbly finished adamantium coated scram-jet hyperengined teleporting pods . the same zit-favoured experience- and-wit- starving faces only embellished with glance suits and topped with glasses to simulate some expertize. yet only the nike sneakers give away their origin of shallow waters. the same yahoos serve your table , the same yahoos that had made the meal. the culture of worth-serving clients, presumtions and suspicions deplete already bulimic sales charts.
anyways, how would they now if the kid in horny torn jeans has come to take a vette for a smokey show- off wheelspin or for a serious fat-check transaction? here goes the old saying about champagne and the risk…………
oops, anorectic instead of bulimic.
I had a similar experience in a VW dealership recently. I was interested in the new GTI, but unsure as to which transmission I wanted, sure a DSG sounds great on paper, but would I miss the connection to the car of having to use both feet? I outlined from the beginning exactly how I wanted to spec out the car, and we priced out both options. When it came to the transmission choice, I stated that I wanted to test drive both the DSG and a manual to see which I preferred. I was then politely told that I had to choose one or the other, purchase the car, then if I didn’t like my choice, they would buy the car back from me IF I returned it within 24 hours. I was out the door within a minute.
The salesman sent a follow up email the next day, thanking me for my visit. I replied to him, and his sales manager, repeating what the salesman told me and outlined how I would never return to a dealership that doesn’t allow test drives, especially on a mere $32K hot hatch. It’s a shame, they could have had the sale if they wanted to play ball.
I suppose if you really want a Corvette, there are dealers out there who like Frank’s who sell high volumes and know how exactly to sell one. “Corvette Vicki” of Kerbeck in Atlantic City was always on the first page of the Autoweek classifieds when I subscribed, is she still there?
And for everyone else, there’s the past of least resistance/BS.
Back in 2000 I had a similar experience. I decided it was time for me to check out my dream car so I went to a Chevy dealer in Plano TX.
Plano is considered to be one of the best suburbs near Dallas TX. So I walk in with my wife and a salesman politely asks if he could help, I said yes, I told him I was interested in buying a brand new Corvette. He immediately took my wife and I to his office and we started to chit chat. To my surprise he started talking about financing options without even offering a test drive.
At this point I interrupted him and said there is no point in discussing financing since I don’t even know if this car is comfortable for ME. ( I had no doubt about its performance)
He said “We don’t test drive Corvettes” and added that “I would love the car” once I bought it. To say that I felt irritated would be an understatement so we left. They assured nobody would give me a test drive on a 50,000 dollar new vehicle which turned out to be true. (Corvettes anyway).
A few days later I decided to go to Corvettes of Dallas to see what they had. After only a few minutes talking to the sales person he tossed me the keys to a used 99 with 8k miles on it and said to take it for a spin. So I did, by myself no less.
I ended up buying that car right there. One hour later I became a Corvette owner and have been one ever since, I currently have an 06, not thanks to GMs dealerships but a specialty shop that knows how to treat Corvette shoppers.
Great car but not so great customer relations.
I don’t think I’ve ever been denied a test drive, though if I’m being treated poorly I usually don’t make it to that point. I can understand telling a 17-year-old kid to scram, but a middle-aged guy? They’re Chevy’s bread and butter — the only people that even buy Corvettes. I can only figure that car salesmen who deny test drives desperately want to fail at life, that or they get off on the power trip.
Okay, I remember one now. We were at a local Mitsu dealership, and had walked into the showroom and started ooh-ing and aah-ing over the Evo they had there. I don’t even remember why we were there… maybe it was to check out an Eclipse or something when I was looking to replace my Mystique (this was at least 4 years ago, before we got the LGT). We’d never seen an Evo before, and this was in Omaha, where they’re rare even today. Husband was just a few weeks shy of graduating college and our income was going to double, and I wanted a new car, dammit. So we stood in the showroom and checked out the Evo… and looked around… there were people milling about, but no one approached us. Hmm. Sat in the car, poked around, waiting for someone to try to… I dunno, sell us something? Or whatever they do at car dealerships? Nothing. After about 10 minutes, we walked. We went back sometime last year to look at a used car for my sister-in-law, with similar results. I think they went under eventually.
Martin is right — a lack of competition makes it easy for dealerships to survive. The only people that would buy a $60k car without a drive are the ones who can afford better cars than a Corvette.
Megan,
This may surprise you but I was 29 when I went to buy my first vette and to be honest most of the vette people I know are about my age.
great story – another reason to break up GM. I hope some corporate raider gets his hands on GM and chops it into little pieces
There’s a big difference between 17 and 29. I’m sure the number of 17-year-olds in the market for a new ‘vette is significantly smaller than the late-20s market. Or the mid-life crisis market. The only ‘vette drivers I see on the roads in Atlanta have gray hair and won’t drive over 55 on the roads. Why buy that much car if you’re not even going to use it?
I’m laughing at you guys.
I had trouble getting a test drive in a Jeep Patriot, for God’s sakes.
So I’m middle aged? Damn…that sucks! LOL.
re: “Or maybe they’re just lazy, short-sighted, arrogant, amoral opportunists. Why work hard to sell a car you don’t need to…?”
i heard something very similar from my father back around 1970 after i had recently purchased a slightly used 66 e-type jaguar coupe. my father had been a gm man – and employee – almost all his adult life and was more than a little disappointed with my selection.
at some point in our many discussions on the subject, i finally challenged him and said something to the effect of, ‘ya know, if gm built a car as desirable as this one, i probably would have purchased it instead.” and then posed the question, ‘so how come gm doesn’t build a car of this caliber?’ to which he replied, ‘we don’t need to offer more/better – we already sell every car we produce, just the way they are.’
and even though i probably didn’t realize it at the time, that statement was really all i needed to know. and most likely one of the main reasons why i never did purchase another car from the general or any other domestic automaker.
My mom and dad had a very similar experience buying a Corvette this spring. This is a 57 year old couple, retired, ready and willing to pay cash for a car they’ve always loved. My dad nearly had a major heart attack and ended up getting a stent placed in January, so they decided that now was the time to get back into a Corvette, having sold their beloved ’72 coupe when I came along.
None of the dealerships near their home would allow a test drive. One dealership told them “we get one Corvette a year and the owner of the place buys it at the end of the model year…and no, you can’t even sit in it.” Another had several in stock, but was selling them for $3-5K above sticker and would likewise not allow a test drive.
They spend a few days with my wife and I in Minneapolis, and though all of the dealerships here were more than happy to allow test drives (not a big market for Vettes in January in Minnesota), no one had the “just right” car they wanted.
They ended up finding Knippelmier Chevrolet in Blanchard, OK through the internet. They had the exact car they wanted in stock, and were happy to strike a cash deal over the phone. No games, below MSRP, a 2007 analogue of their old 72! They flew down to Oklahoma City, and their salesman met them at the airport with the car.
Distance matters little if you’re treated right. Someone should knock GM on the head for letting their dealers chase paying customers out the door. Oh wait…someone has. What’s their stock at today?
GS650G:
I disagree that selling cars and selling bicycles are the same. I think there is a huge difference between the type of person who works in each field. A typical bike salesman is an enthusiast who loves the sport and enjoys sharing that enthusiasm with others. A typical car salesman is someone who, well, probably has different motivations.
I don’t think you have spent enough time in bike shops………..
The sooner we can shed the dealer concept and move to a “test drive/delivery center” the better. I NEVER want to have to deal with a Dealer ever again. They are a cancer on the whole industry.
–chuck
About 2 months ago I found a used 2006 Vette at local dealership. I called them up, told them my situation (I’m 23, just graduated 8 months ago, have limited credit history, etc.) and they told me to come down and take a test drive the next day. I was pretty shocked at how easy it was for a young guy like me to get a test drive in an almost new Vette with no questions asked. I guess not all the Chevy dealerships out there are incompetent
There’s an exact thread on the big Impreza/Subaru forum discussing the ‘turned down for a test drive’ experience people have had with the STI. Lots of guys in that thread detailed exactly the same responses your dad received, so identical I laughed out loud when I read them written above. It seems to be a highly localized, dealer by dealer phenomenon. The proper response is indeed to walk. Fortunately I was immediately given a test drive when I was shopping for mine. I guess if I had been turned down and been thinking fast I could have said, “Okay, I’ll just walk the hundred yards down the road (literally) to that Mitsu dealer with three EVO’s sitting out front.” :)
sitting on the front row with rusty rotors.
Don’t let anyone in on the secret. I remember dealing with a salesperson who kept trying the old ‘this could go at anytime’ trick at which point I gestured at the rust encrusted rotors and just said ‘I doubt it’.
Your experience is no surprise. Just this morning I dropped by Ford to look at an Edge. Apparently, it was more important for not just one, but two, salesmen to finish their smokes.
In previous posts I’ve mentioned my recent GM experience and my vow never to return.
At another Ford dealership, I was looking at a used Mustang GT convertible. The salesmen went off to figure what they’d do with the price and my trade in. He emerged from his office and screamed ‘Hey R***** (my last name)!’ across the show room, and then gestured at me the way you would if you found your dog devouring some offal he found in the grass. I am not stuffy, but screaming your customers last name across a showroom doesn’t seem very sales friendly.
Last but not least, it has now been something like three months since I filled out Ford’s online form for arranging a test drive for an Edge. No word yet! Stay tuned.
I spent years in sales having to cold call. If someone actually sent me a form asking me to come see them, I would have lept for joy. Not these guys apparently.
(As an aside, I inquired about a TRD edition Solara located in Ottawa two years ago. They offered to drive it to Toronto for me to see….that’s a 4-5 drive. I was also able to take a Lexus SC430 for a test drive…unaccompanied.)
Even if the Japanese were merely tied in terms of product, they’d still win.
From Vettefinders.com
“..found the buyer profile in 1970 to be of interest. Corvette buyers in 1970 were 93% male. The majority were single – 56%. The median age was 27. Approximately one third had jobs which can be termed professional or managerial. The family size was 2.4 and the average income $15,500, with a new Corvette in 1970 costing about one third of that figure.
Today, the median age of the Corvette buyer is 48. It’s still a predominantly male crowd; however, 18% are female, a number that has gradually been increasing. Today’s buyers’ statistics indicate that 59% are in managerial or professional positions. A change from the 1970 statistics indicates that 74% of the buyers are married. The median household income is $112,500. Currently the cost of a 2002 Coupe is at the same ratio to household income as that of the 1970 model, approximately one third.”
http://www.vettefinders.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Vette101Story/ID/18
Oh yeah, meant to say…
If a man in his fifties walks into a Chevy dealer and asks to test drive a ‘Vette, you give him a test drive! That’s like turning down a couple with two kids who walks into a Chrysler dealer and asks to drive a Town and Country!
When I went into a Porsche dealership to test drive a Cayman S, I had the carefully-manicured style of having just slept the night on a park bench. Filthy, ratty, torn gardening sweatpants; 3 day growth of beard; tattered, threadbare hawaiin shirt dating from the plistoceane era, no socks, jail-issue looking flip flop thongs.
The nonchalent salesman, looking bored, flipping the keys to me said “have her back in half an hour and try not to go over 100.”
When I expressed shock about his cavalier attitude given my mushroomy hygiene he yawned and replied “Everyone looks like that when they test drive Porsches. It has something to do with the time Janis Joplin went barefooted and scraggly haired into a Mercedes dealership and bought a new one with stacks of $20 bills.”
I took the car out and never went over 70.
Wait, so this actually happens? I thought the “no test drive” bit was an urban legend…
Contrast this with an accidental experience I had last year: I mistakenly pulled into a Porsche dealer while looking for an Audi dealer of the same name (it was just down the street, naturally). I made no pretense of looking at Porsches, I just asked the first salesman I saw where the Audi dealership was. What did he do? He practically forced me to test drive a Cayman before letting me out the door. Bear in mind that I hardly looked like a big swinger – unless jeans and a 10 year old Honda Prelude is your idea of pimpin’. Thankfully I managed to get out there without the test drive, because I’m sure I would have fallen in love immediately. Nonetheless, I had an extremely positive experience despite the fact that I was never going to buy a Porsche that day. And that matters – if I’m ever in the market for an expensive sports car, that will probably be the first place I go.
I guess the lesson is pretty obvious: high-end dealers know how to sell high-end cars, and low-end dealers don’t know how to send high-end cars.
Some good comparisons are being made between the described Corvette/GM dealer and Phaeton/VW dealer scenarios. Dealers who specialize in high volume autos are, without specific training, ill-prepared to deal with the differences in selling high end automobiles. Some good suggestions are out there as to how best to deal with this situation, but has anyone though about how effective Corvettes are as “lures”? Some young guy coming in to check out the latest and greatest from GM and ends up walking out with an unplanned purchase of a Cobalt? Probably more profitable if pulled off twice than selling one Corvette.
I guess it’s my turn to post my dealer experiences along these lines. In 2004, my wife and I were in the market for a new car. We both liked the look of the new Mustngs and decided to give them a look. The delaership we went to in Santa Rosa, CA had some Mustang GTs but wouldn’t let us test drive one without putting down a $5,000 deposit and signing a contract to buy one. Needless to say that ended that. Fast forward to late 2006, and my wife and I are once again thinking about getting a new car, this time for her. We went to the Ford Dealer in Roseville, CA-she likes Mustangs. They had a great selection including Roush and Saleen Mustangs. We test drove a Mustang GT, looked at the ROush Mustangs, and were looking at a Saleen, when the salesman asked us if we would like to test drive the Saleen. We declined, but he was practically pressuring us take it for a spin. Quite a difference.
We just took a Mazdaspeed Mazda3 for a test drive about one month ago, once again in Santa Rosa (different dealer for Mazdas). We went there planning on just looking at the car when the salesman asked us if we would like to take a test drive after talking with us for a few minutes. This was despite a sign in the window saying that the car was not available for test drives. The salesman told us that was just for the people that would thrash the car, but he couuld tell we were serious about a new car, inother words, a sensible policy. In fairness to GM, the local Chevy dealer where I live had an advertising campaign a couple of months ago that included that they would allow you to test drive any car including the Corvette.
It’s really sad to hear all these tales of lost Corvette sales. The car really is good enough to warrant researching a Vette-friendly dealer to test drive the car. After that, ordering one and taking delivery through the Natl Corvette Museum is a unique, memorable experience….and the car is prepped by people at the NCM that truly know what they are doing.
Justin, what did he end up buying instead?
“Demand Pricing” is nothing more than fleecing the sheep.
The first-gen Miata generated the same sort of wild prices; I remember ads in The Wall Street Journal for Miatas at 10K over sticker when they came out. Same for New Beetles.
The reason there are GTO’s still sitting unsold is because of these “demand pricing” games; the dealers ran off potential buyers by the truckload so they could hammer the few idiots who’d pay the premium, now they’re reaping the whirlwind.
Look at the Shelby GT500. “There’s only 1,000 being built. So you have to pay.” I guarantee within a year they’ll be selling for below sticker. Hell, they’re doing it on the Shelby GT, and it has hardly any more power than a base Mustang GT.
Now if you’re wanting a Ferrari, and there’s a 2-year waiting list, then you either 1) Wait, or 2) pay the premium. But a GTO or Shelby GT500 is hardly a Ferrari.
The Corvette is now so far outside the Chevy orbit that it doesn’t even serve as a “halo” car anymore; it’s its own brand, and should be treated as such. Unfortunately, the same guy who got “ups” on the Cobalt buyer is the same one who may get you when you try to buy the ‘Vette.
I have to agree with many of the posters; I’d never buy a car I couldn’t drive first.
A few years ago, I was fresh out of college. I really wanted a 350Z, but I had no money (no job yet) and no major purchases on my credit history. I went to the local Nissan dealership just to drool and with the objective to just sit in one to see how comfortable they were. Of course I was intercepted by a salesman. After talking with the guy for awhile, and making it plainly clear I thought the car was cool but I had no money(at least not yet), he gave me the keys and asked if I wanted to drive it. My jaw hit the floor. He did ride with me, which considering I shouldn’t even have been driving the car was fine. Then he told me I should take the corners faster. I didn’t… I was too scared of messing up. A couple of years later with a really good job and with money in my account for a down payment I went back to the dealership. Talked to the same salesman. It turned out that they couldn’t get me financing (still no credit history) but the guy took me off to the side and said he saw a used one over at the local Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealership that was almost exactly the same model I was looking for. Once again, I was floored. I thanked him, went to that dealership. They tossed me the keys and told me to have fun. I bought it from them that day. I guess I’ve had good luck.
This seems to be turning into a vicious cycle.
More often than not, customers keep shopping car prices at different dealerships. This means that only one dealership does the work to “earn” someones business. (Answer technical questions, take customer on test drive, negotiate pricing, etc.) So what reason does any dealership have to take the time to take a customer on a test drive when all the customer will do is take the number and run out the door to the competition?
Find a dealer you like, where the salespeople don’t suck. Then look up the invoice price on the car you’re looking at and decide how much the dealer deserves if they treat you right. Then tell them UP FRONT if they get you your price, you’ll take the car, and won’t shop them. Understand that a dealership deserves some money if they treat you right and are straight-forward.
There are good car salesmen, and there are bad car salesmen. The good ones make friends with potential customers, whether you ultimately buy one from them or not, make you feel like you’re “the man” during the buying process, and lead you to believe that you got a great deal, regardless of how much profit you just made the salesman. These guys also rake in $200k+ a year. And then there are the prototypical horror stories of bad car salesmen.
These Chevy guys are trying to play the German game (e.g., the Z8 was asking for $240k, or 100% markup, during the post-Bond release, dot-com boom), but don’t know how the skills, and track record, to do so. Their loss.
You father can just swing by the next-door Porsche dealership to test out their $90k 911s, or to the next-door bimmer dealership to test out their $80k 6-series. And if the salesmen there give him such BS, yell at them, talk to their GMs, and have them fired.
You know what all of this reminds me of? Seeing $100 leather jackets at Ross or Walmarts locked up with security ropes and requiring someone with a key to open them up so you can try them. Yet, you don’t see the same thing with $1000 items at the higher end stores. Funny.
I had an interesting experience with High-end/Low-end the other day. I had my 325i in for service, and decided to stop to flirt with my salesman – he’d sold 3 BMWs to me so far, and since my car just hit 50,000 miles, I thought it might be time to start looking again.
Well, he’s gone. Has cancer and won’t be back, according to the young guy sitting at his desk.
Since I’m there, I tell the guy I’m there to ‘flirt’ with the numbers – see what you can do for me.
I ended up with every trick in the book. The bait and switch that was ‘sold’ but still on the lot with a ‘hold’ sticker when I showed up to talk turkey; the payments matched to my current payments by stretching the term… the whole used car show.
I should have seen it coming. The guy was so new that he was still using his “AutoNation” email address.
He was trying used car salesman tactics on a BMW customer.
Wonder how long he’ll last. I miss my old salesman. Now I’ll have to try a different dealer
Had this experience with the STI. Along with improving the interior and toning down the exterior to appeal to a new demographic, Subbie needs a new attitude at their dealerships.
Sorry Bob Peters I gotta disagree its the dealers job to make me all happy and comfy so that I am willing to exchange my hard earned money for said vehicle and part of that is giving test drives and simple courtesy, it is not my job to make the dealer all happy and comfy in order for him or her to give me the customer a freaking test drive by promising that I will buy the car etc.
Funny where are all the car sales people and dealers who post? Where are the its the customers fault because he didn’t wave a stack of hundreds in front of the dealer or he should have just bought the car postings?
In 1984 Triumph Motorcycles went under and pulled out of the US. They came back for the 1995 model year. Now, in the intervening 11 years, 99% of their clientèle was lost to Harley Davidson.
To show off their new line of bikes, they did something that, up to that point, was unheard of – they offered test rides. Anybody, any ages as long as you had a valid motorcycle endorsement, DOT legal helmet, hard shoes, jacket and gloves. Back then, just try to get out of a Triumph dealership without taking something on the road first.
Must have worked. They outsell Ducati in the US by a wide margin, and are either just behind, or actually outselling, BMW. 2500 bikes in 1995, something like 15,000 in 2006. Oh yeah, they’re still doing test rides – and so are more than a few other marques.
Never underestimate the power of a test ride.
Claude Dickson
I’m sorry you had a bad experience at a Subaru dealership. We went to our local one to check out a used CRV, and ended up leaving about a week later with a brand new Legacy GT. Now *THAT* is a salesman. He would have let us drive an STi if we were interested, no doubt, even though my husband and I tend to look like poor college students when we go car shopping. He took us seriously and we’ve sent him plenty of business in return.
I’ve heard a lot of stories of Subaru dealerships denying STi test drives, but I’m sure they get a lot of kids in there looking to joyride in a car they can’t afford. I can respect their decision to limit test drives, but if you’re presenting yourself as a serious buyer, there’s no reason not to. For crying out loud, they’re not worth that much money.
“Sykerocker: Never underestimate the power of a test ride.”
I agree. Speaking from experience, I was off work early 2 years ago and decided to swing by a bimmer dealership nearest to a freeway (in Berkeley) instead of sitting in traffic. I was driving my trusty Civic (with roofrack and all) and was not looking for a new car; although I was looking professional, with suit, tie, and all.
Spoke to a salesman, and told him that I would like to try out the SMG in his new M3 coupe. He initially (but feebly) gave me the “We don’t allow testdrives on M3s, buyers don’t want to see miles racked up on them, you have to make a deposit, yada yada” but I immediately cut him off. Told him in a serious tone that I’m not buying it that day, but if it looked good and finances allowed, I would consider it in a few months. In any event, I would never consider one w/o a test drive. And if I chose to buy one, it would be a special order with my chosen options, rather than what they have on the lot.
Two minutes later, the guy came back with a key and we were off to a test drive. And it was one hell of a test drive; I was sold on the high-revving engine and the flat out handling of the car. It didn’t help that the salesman told me to floor through a curved freeway onramp and bring the needle up to 80 when the sign only says 35mph limit.
I thanked him afterwards, asked for brochures and ordering info, and asked for his business card. Told him I’ll let him know what I think after a few weeks.
After further research and much convincing of the missus that we suddenly NEEDED a car with 333 hp and that we could afford it, I sent my email making my offer, agreed on the price, and filled out my purchase order. 2 months later (and after daily monitoring on the build and delivery progress on my car), a brand new black coupe arrived with a ribbon and my name on it.
A test drive DOES make a huge difference.
No wonder now, everytime I suggested to my wife that “we” should go to the nearest Porsche dealer and “just” testdrive a Carrera 4S that “she” mentioned she like, she immediately said “No.”
She too understands the power of a test drive.
Car dealers are quintessential opportunists, for the most part. The stores selling domestic cars – cars whose headquarters are in the States – have always been ready to mark up pricing. It’s part of that basic supply-and-demand equation they teach in basic economics classes; and unless the manufacturer steps in, the mark-ups on cars such as the Solstice will continue.
Manufacturers always offer the defense of “they’re independent franchises,” but they can always do end-run manipulations such as denying a dealer certain models, colors, etc. to get them to come across.
The foreign cars stores, especially those selling high-end European cars, might “pre-qualify” the buyer, just by looking at them or maybe making a phone call or two. But there are indeed circumstances wherein which even those stores will deny test-rides.
There was a Porsche dealer in Seattle, about 15 years back, that stopped offering test rides, after someone crashed a car, while out on a test ride. Finally, they gave up the franchise and it is now in the hands of a dealer in Bellevue, Washington. What his policy is in regards to test rides, is unknown to me.
It does seem odd that a Chevrolet dealer would deny a test drive to someone who fit the demographic so well. I believe the usual deal for any test drive these days, is for the dealer to take a copy of the person’s driver’s license – especially if they are taking the car out solo. But the insurance is always taken care of, by the store.
It sounds as if the Corvette club should probably talk to that dealer who denied Justin’s father access to a car.
The Soup Nazi metaphor really cuts to the heart of the thing. I don’t think dealers or salesmen who forbid test-driving are really trying to screen customers or preserve their demo cars’ value — I think they are playing power games. Tactics like this must run directly to the detriment of sales, as it’s clear that a comfortable customer who has a chance to try out the product is more likely to make a purchase (and perhaps also less likely to negotiate aggressively). Dealers’ testosterone-fueled us-vs.-them sales mentality is to blame.
GM had their Ultimate Adrenaline Test Drive here in Vegas last year (at the Sahara). It was this big track they set up in a big parking lot. In the middle was a huge mountain of dirt where off-roaders could test Hummers and such. For locals it was free for the first month, but outsiders had to pay 20 bucks to take two GM cars around there little track area. GM had every performance car out there including Saabs, Cadi V series, Corvettes, GTOs, etc… They make you drive with a person who’s supposed to be there to make sure you don’t flog it too hard.
I drove a GTO first where the kid with me was like, “Cool, that’s how you should drive it!!” The second car was a Corvette and the dude in that car started to cry when I took some corners at a sports-car-like speed. The guy said, “Take it easy!!” I told him, “Look at the big banner over there, doesn’t it say Ultimate Adrenaline?” Friggin idiot…
I just had to comment. I’ve had this happen a couple times…
Was in the market for a new car, so I stopped by a Mitsubishi dealership to drive an Evo. Was pointedly told “We don’t test drive Evolutions”. Later another dealer wanted to do a credit check, which I allowed since I was very interested in the car. Then they really pressured me to buy it, as they knew I could afford it …
Got to test drive an STI, but was told to keep it under 4k RPMS. Ok, I can understand that. Didn’t buy it though.
Went to drive a Dodge SRT-4, the 250hp Neon. The salesmen said “is this just a test drive, or are you serious about buying it?”. I explained I wasn’t ready to buy yet, but would still like to drive it if possible. He didn’t even take down my information. I bought the car from him.
I went to drive a 350Z. I didn’t want the “Track” (high-end) model, as it was too expensive and I didn’t need any of the stuff it had. They only seemed to have two of those though, so I found a salesperson and asked “Do you have any that aren’t quite so high end?” I was told “Well its a car for a high-end customer”. It didn’t quite register on me that he was insulting me and I said “WHAT” really loudly, but he was running off to help someone buy a Quest Minivan.
I now drive a 350Z Roadster, by the way. Not from that dealership.
It almost seems random, it must depend more on the salesperson than the customer … when I went to go drive my ZR, the salesman just said “Sure you can drive it, let me get the keys”. He then came back out with a rather attractive female and explained he was delivering another car, but the girl would go with me. I don’t know if this was a tactic or not, but it sure didn’t hurt! She didn’t know anything about the car, but she did make sure to tell me I looked good driving it!
Sometimes, it’s also the customer’s attitude that makes a difference in how the salesman treats him/her.
If you come in looking sheepish, “asking” for permission to test drive a car, and giving off the “uh…mister, please let me have a test ride…i promise it’s not a joyride…uh” impression, the salesman will play the power game and prey on you.
On the other hand, being confident & serious (not rude, obnoxious) while giving the impression that “you, salesman, are here to help me, answer my questions, sell me the product, and if I still like it after I test the product, we will talk”, the salesman would take the cue and treat you seriously.
Had similar experiance as your father at two dealerships.
In ’98 I looked at a Mustang Cobra. Until I showed the dealer Federal driving certifications they would not let me take the car off the lot. The car was a lot of fun to drive but I was so irritated with them that I’d pretty much decided not to buy by the time I was handed the keys. Also, as a result, that Cobra received exactly the test drive they were trying to avoid.
A few months ago my wife and I stopped in at the local Kia Store franchise in Louisville. The saleslady did not want to let us SIT in the new Sedona before she ran our credit. Some back and forth ensued where I explained that I was not going to fill out paperwork on a new minivan before I knew if I FIT in the freakin’ thing. Then she flat refused to let us drive the thing. At this point we were so PO’ed at them that I doubt we’d have taken the Sedona if they gave it to us. All I can say is that woman wound up being one heck of a Ford salesperson…idiot.
It happened to my friend who was considering a Prius a year ago (he’s a “29mpg is terrible!” kind of guy). One dealership said they didn’t have any. Okay fine. Another said they couldn’t be bothered with test drives, due to demand. And yet another was letting people drive half a block – the salesman would drive it out of the lot to a stop sign, then you’d take over and make two right turns, then the salesman would drive back into the lot.
After that dinky test he talked to the other customers that had been through that “test drive” and they were all too pissed off to buy the car. I’m sure some did, but not there.
In the “old days” a sales person was issued a “demo” and most dealers always had a good choice of cars for test drives.
Now the majority of dealers give a car allowance to a sales person instead of a demo. There have also been instances where dealer have been sued for demos involved in accidents.
Road tests become a “judgement call” on the part of the sales person, the dealership management.
There are many consumers that spoil it for everyone else by turning “road tests” into a Saturday pastime. The only thing that is not available “online” is a road test.
Its already a challenge to insure a dealership, the majority of insurance companies will not allow “road tests” at large, the insurance company demands that a sales person be in the vehicle, a road test form signed, with a copy of a drivers license.
Most dealers don’t even want to think of an accident happening on a test drive, or even worse personal harm to the sales person in the vehicle.
As for motorcycles, insurance companies do not cover road tests on a motorcycle. Its the reason manufacturers have these organised travelling Ride events from one dealer to another offering road tests.
I guess I’m in the minority here, but I don’t know what the inside of a dealership looks like. I buy my cars from the local, independent “boutique” dealer and never have had any problem with a test drive. I take the same cars to my local independent mechanic. The experiences and value with good independents is so much better than those from the dealerships. I must respectfully question the judgment of some of the “enthusiasts” that I have heard complaining about dealerships – both maintenance and sales. I have not been inside an automobile dealership in 25 years – and I’m a 35K miles/year driver.
Wow! These stories are depressing. How do these guys stay in business? Maybe we should name some of the offending dealers and salespeople individually, and let them reap the fruits of their own arrogance.
Actually, this stuff suprises me, as I have never been denied a test drive, and I test drive a fair number of cars on a regular basis. I don’t claim to have all the answers and am not necessarily a good BS artist, but here is what works for me:
– Show up dressed appropriately. Business casual seems to work well.
– When talking with the salesman, treat him with respect and with a businesslike demeanor, he is not your ‘good buddy’, nor should you automatically assume he is the enemy, until he gives you reason to believe that; then you walk.
– Show him that you have knowledge of cars and the model you are interested in. I usually say things like ‘I am cross shopping…., I realize this car has won awards for…., quote a few specs, etc. After this, they generally don’t try to blow smoke.
– Try to show up on off hours, if possible. If there are more salesmen than customers in the showroom, they are more likely to spend time with you and allow a test drive, because they may not be doing anything else anyway.
– If possible, show up with respectable wheels. If you’re trying to test drive a new Vette and you show up in a 20 year old rusted out Cavalier, they may become suspicious.
So far, this hasn’t failed me. Maybe it’s a regional thing, but in the Northern Detroit suburbs, I haven’t found these obnoxious behaviors, at least yet.
Show up dressed appropriately. Business casual seems to work well.
Like bloody hell. I’m there to buy a car, not apply for a gorram job. My money is good regardless of how I’m dressed, and if you want it, then you need to do your job.
If possible, show up with respectable wheels. If you’re trying to test drive a new Vette and you show up in a 20 year old rusted out Cavalier, they may become suspicious.
Right, because no one lands a sweet job and decides to spend that money they’ve been saving for years by not having to make exorbitant payments on a new car every 3 years. Or inherits a large amount of money. Or wins the lottery. Or just decides it’s time for a mid-life crisis.
It’s making judgment calls on appearance like this that loses sales. If someone walks into your stealership and wants to test drive a car, unless they have 3 cop cars tailing them, give them the keys. My husband and I look young, but we make enough money to drive even nicer cars than what we have, along with very little debt and amazing credit. If the salesman wants to blow us off because we don’t fit in with the beautiful people crowd, then we’ll go somewhere else.
If I want to wear jeans with holes in them and no makeup, why should anyone treat me worse than the woman wearing Prada and Estee Lauder? For all you know, she’s drowning in debt and you couldn’t approve financing for her in ten years. Woe to the salesman who lavishes attention on her instead of me, when I could afford to buy the car if he’d treat me like a human being, and no matter how nice she is, she’ll never be able to do it.
Or maybe I just need to flash more cleavage when I go car hunting.
Megan,
Like it or not, we all get judged by our appearances, whether we are buying a car, applying for a job, or trying to get into a swanky nightclub. This is not necessarily a good thing; in a perfect world we would be treated with respect regardless of appearance. (See anecdote below) However, if your goal respect from the dealer and a test drive, playing the game a little won’t hurt. No, cleavage isn’t necessary.
When I was in college, I worked for a summer as a porter in a car dealership. These guys were for the most part, scum. One day, a teenager rolled up on a 10-speed and was eyeing a year-old Z-28 on the lot. Inside the building, the salespeople were arguing about whose ‘up’ this was. The ‘loser’ of this disagreement reluctantly went out to greet the kid, who returned the next day with cash for the car. Did this change anything for the salespeople? Nah, they went on being who they were. Years later, I had gotten a couple of test drives from this dealership, no questions asked. Fair? no, but what is?
I am constantly surprised how many car companies and dealerships spend so much money on tv, radio and newspaper advertising and then throw the game when the potential customer actually walks in the door. Why aren’t the majority of car salespeople real professionals who like cars, like people, know their product line backwards and forwards and have been on the job an average of at least three years? Why do most dealers have a flock of untrained, inexperienced jerks and idiots as the front line face to the customer? There are exceptions, but unfortunately low quality sales staff is the rule, not the exception.
It is just dumb.
jthorner,
Its simple the present showroom car sales system generates high turnover among sales persons, hence the limited level of competence.
Have a low paid sales person do most of the leg work, then turn the customer over to a floor manager to close the deal, then the F&I person to get additional profit out of the customer.
Then bribe the customer with a gift to get a high CSI score on the purchase experience. Most customers will gladly bring in their purchase experience CSI questionnaire for a $50 voucher.
Because of gas prices; I’ve been looking into 250cc Kawasaki Ninjas lately for my 25 mile each way daily commute(all 70mph interstate). These bikes supposedly get ~70mpg.
The bike lists for $2999 MSRP on Kawasaki’s website. All the local dealers have it tagged at $3499 with an additional ~$200 “crating/assembly/setup/shipping” fee. I’d be walking out of there spending no less then $3700 and that’s before the 8% local tax($4000 now).
I read on a good site that the dealer supposedly buys these bikes for $2850 from the manufacturer. I asked a local dealer why the price was more then MSRP and he stated that they “couldn’t make any money selling it at that price”. They’d be “selling it at a loss”.
On Cycle Trader, I’ve seen dealers selling them for $2999 in Texas and Alabama. Road trip?
DoctorV8:
No purchase yet. Current interests include mostly what you’d guess – Cayman/Cayman S; BMW Z Coupe M; BMW 335.
Corvette is basically off the list, though. If it comes back into contention, we will end up at a regional “Corvette is our specialty” dealership 1 hr away from home, which allows test drives (to 50+ year old men), and which has uh, functional customer service.
In GM’s defense, the local Cadillac dealership treated me like a prince when I was there a few months ago. Although the outgoing CTS wasn’t my favorite of the cars I test drove, I was tempted to buy it merely because the sales staff and customer service was so damned good. Sales manager introduced himself, explicitly said that he wanted a “pressure free” environment, etc.
I ultimately bought my car from a Volkswagen/Porsche/Audi dealership that makes the owner’s personal phone number available to people who have bought cars in the event the employees are acting in an unsatisfactory manner. Bingo.
_____
Economically speaking, what the article talks about and what so many of you have also experienced, is laughably absurd. Jacking up the prices on cars that ONLY the diehards will buy, or punishing the only determined buyers accomplishes nothing. If GM wants to sell cars, they need to (1) maintain the loyalists by treating them well and (2) attracting new customers. Fleecing your loyal customers whenever the opportunity presents itself accomplishes nothing. And ripping people off or refusing test drives of expensive vehicles will just drive away anyone who isn’t dead-set on your product.
It seems like the system should be the opposite of the way it works. The sooner that franchised dealers die off, the better.
Justin,
All the cars on his list are worthy of the utmost consideration, but as you probably know, the 400 (soon to be 430+) HP Corvette will outperform all of them easily on the racetrack and in EPA gas mileage ratings, and in features like heads up display, standard low tire pressure warning system, and available magnetorheological shock absorbers, which were available in 2003, or 4 years before the Ferrari 599 GTB offered them.
Unfortunately, it is probably easier to score a test drive in any BMW or Porsche than the C6. Having said that, I hope your dad takes the initiative to drive the Vette, esp one with the MR shocks (exceedingly rare), as it offers a ride/handling compromise the other cars lack.
I wanted to clarify a few things that have been mentioned in this thread.
First, the brand that a dealer sells has no real bearing on how you’re treated as a customer. A dealership’s culture will primarily come from the owner and the high level managers that coordinate the day to day operations. Their style of doing business will have the greatest impact on what you experience regardless of how many clinics, training programs and surveys come about.
Second, it all comes down to sales. Really. A dealership that’s moving the metal is considered to be successful. Unless they are committing multiple felonies, corporate won’t get involved. Even in those instances it will sometimes take years to get that bad dealer out of the picture.
Certain dealers also hold a lot of the cards when it comes to dealing with these issues. The ones who hold sway over a wide variety of brands don’t have to be as fearful of the regional offices. If your dealership name is Bill Heard, Sewell, Leith, or Nalley, you may actually have more influence on what can take place in a given market than the manufacturer. In certain markets this is a good thing (really), while in others it results in some of the most deplorable sales tactics you can imagine.
Finally, you can tell an awful lot about a dealership by the quality of the facilities. I’ve seen little country fiefdoms and urban money machines that simply looked like dumps. Guess how the employees treated the customers?
There are two Toyota dealerships that are terrible examples of this. One is a dealership that has won the “President’s Award” for several years. Yet every time I go in there, I see large numbers of ticked off people sitting for hours in what have got to be the most uncomfortable chairs in the Southeast U.S. Black 1970’s vinyl with no seatbacks that are literally snaked around an old cracking floor. If this service department had been in Japan, they would have closed it down. In Atlanta, it works since the service department makes so much money.
On the other side, there’s a dodge Dealership only about 5 miles away that has an excellent service facility. We only use it when I buy a Chrysler that needs maintenance (my wife likes to mystery shop). TV, video games, play center for the kids, interesting RECENT magazines, and even a few books . The leather chairs are comfortable and the sales staff is simply fantastic. If I weren’t in the car business, my experiences there would definitely influence my car buying decisions.
Overall, I do believe the dealership model is going to be around for quite a while. Idiotic state laws that politicans erect to assuage their contributors will ensure that dealers remain in power for many years to come.
That is unless you choose alternatives to the traditional car buying process. In which case you’ll be wealthier, the good dealers will stay, and the bad ones will die a slow and painful death.
Seriously… your decisions dictate what CAN be done in the industry.
Never had such an expirience, then again I was never in the market for flagship vehicles … offcourse being in Canada helps.
if anything the Saturn guys showed disappointment when I couldn’t show up to test drive the Ion, then again Ion and Vette are two different stories.
If anything i found that Toyota & Honda dealership’s customer service was horrid compared to their american counter parts … One of the reasons to why i ended up buying the Fusion was the fact that dealership remained open past their closing time (1 sales guy, 1 finance lady?, one coffee guy?).
On the subject of dealers- why are their service and parts operations usually open until 5PM during the week? Can’t they spring for that extra hour to make it easier? There is a Honda and Toyota dealer here in Cleveland with parts/service open until 12AM.
K.
Need to throw in a dig at the Audi dealer in Cary NC. I told the guy I was looking at the A3 as a new family car. Wasn’t sure if I would prefer the stick, or the new DSG as advertised by Farago. Dealer would only let me test drive one of them – then, he wouldn’t let me drive off the lot – then, our test drive consisted of him “demonstrating” the car to me, with me piloting for 6 min on a crowded rural highway to get us back to the dealer. Dealer refused to discuss custom ordering a car because he was only willing to sell me one of the 5 cars on the lot. Complaint to Audi corporate was answered with: “take it up with the dealer.” No thanks, Audi.
I would NEVER buy a car without test driving it first.
Plenty of people buy cars on the internet, without ever even SEEING it. Wow.
I was in a Lincoln dealer to test a then new LS 5 speed – I was invited to take it for the WEEKEND – and if i didnt wanna keep my car at the dealer where they would happily wash it for me, the salesman would drop the Linciln off at my house and pick it up again.
Now we’re talkin about SERVICE !!!
About the vette – If the dealer is being such an idiot about the car before you even buy it – imaging how unbearable they will be AFTER they got ya.
I have owned three Nissans (acquired a used one as a gift, and two leased) in three different states so different dealers were involved. I have yet to find an honest Nissan dealer in both the showroom and service departments. I'm naming names, and I hope they are no longer run by the same clowns, but Independence Nissan in Charlotte, NC was the worst. I was in the process of looking at a new car due to the lease ending on the Nissan I had at the time. Due to a job transfer to Charlotte and longer commutes, I blew the mileage limit out of the water. This was mid-1998 and I was looking at maybe the redesigned Miata or GTI and not another Nissan. Due to the wording of the original Nissan lease (which I received the lease "up-front" money as a gift but was not present at the signing), the area Mazda and VW dealers couldn't work with me regarding the extra mileage. I then contacted Nissan, lawyers (to examine the language of the lease – this was before the "easy" lease paperwork of today), and even friends and family that have been in the same situation. It was stated by this Charlotte Nissan dealer that since I would be going Nissan to Nissan, they "would bend over backwards" to put me into a new Nissan and would not charge me due to the mileage since I was buying from them. Note – this was in writing. Long story short, I did get another Nissan (loaded Altima SE 5-speed stick with all of the options) and was happy with it until I started getting these calls regarding several thousand dollars I owed due to the mileage. I went back to the dealer once I realized the paperwork packet in the glove box was missing one critical piece of paper, and I found out my trusted and friendly croo…er…salesman was no longer employed and lo and behold, his paperwork vanished. To save myself a long and expensive battle, I paid it and will never purchase or consider another Nissan. Fast forward to now. I've been looking off and on for a new car (the great mileage I'm getting with my current one is hard to let go of given the gas prices) and I am using the Internet. I have developed a rapport with at least one sales person before I've even stepped foot into the showroom. Using the Internet, I've had a local Saab dealer have the car I'm looking for prepped and waiting for me in the front to test drive. I've juggled the numbers of three Honda dealers between managers. At the top end that I'm looking at, since the closest Lotus dealer is about 130 miles away, most of the business is done via e-mail and the phone, but the key is to have them comfortable with you before you step foot, especially if you are dealing with a Vette Z06 or a 911 turbo. They know I am not in a hurry and that I can wait until the right color or package combination or best deal comes through before I buy. Some send me friendly e-mails saying they have this new one on the lot and to contact them if I might be interested. Like many on this board, I flat out refuse to be treated like trash by a fly-by-night staff that knows nothing about the cars, has insane test drive procedures and rules, and is overall provides a nasty experience. For some of the higher end cars on my scale, I really didn't mind that the salesman/woman came along – sometimes you want to make sure the both of you will fit…and it helps to make sure you don't have a high-speed police chase on the freeway when you test the top speed of said car!
The test drive is the most important part of the sales process. I have been in the business for 26 years and can tell you from experience. If the salesperson does not offer you a test drive after a product presentation, they are making a big mistake. Any good salesman knows this.
If you walk in to a dealer and ask for a test drive upon meeting a salesperson they are going to think you are a “dreamer” Someone who has nothing to do besides go around and look at and drive cars they have no intention of buying.They usually just want to drive and not want a product presentaion first. And they usually say “I be in the market in a few months”. You let them drive and never see them again.
Parts:
What exactly is a “product presentation?” If its where the salesman tries to sell me on a car i’ve already researched and tells me things I know are incorrect, I think i’ll pass.
You let them drive and never see them again.
Cost of doing business.
To have a decent new car buying experience, go to a Saturn dealer (low end) or Lexus dealer (high end). Both let me take the car I was considering home and keep it overnight. Of course they copied my driver’s license first and presumably checked my credit rating.
Ok, so here is my current car shopping experience. I’m shopping for a replacement for my Mazda 6 SportWagon. Great car but my commute has changed and I would prefer a slushbox to my current manual. I would also like a little luxury as my 6 is a base model with zero options. The seats are like burlap. Attempting to make a deal on the internet as that is how I prefer to do business. For my past 2 cars, I have negotiated a price online; once a price was set that I was comfortable with I would go test drive. If I like the drive, I purchase. You would think it’s so simple.
So I started with the local Infiniti dealer; thought an FX35/45 would go nice alongside our G35x in the garage. Went to the local Infiniti dealer website, clicked on the model that I was interested in (they seemed to have a base FX45 listed in every color, odd) and sent a message. Keep in mind that every dealer that I contacted immediately sent a form email back “come on in!” ‘we have a great selection!” I get a message back from a rep, “we don’t have that base FX in stock but I do have one with tow package, nav and a bunch of other options that you don’t want/need!” I replied, no, I am interested in the one that is listed under “current inventory” on your website. He replied “oh that’s not our inventory, that’s just based on what we can get.” If you can get it, then why aren’t I driving off in my new FX today? Whatever.
I had contacted Honda about a Ridgeline but they were pretty scarce in my area for some reason. One day after a doc appt. I decided to drop by the lot to see if stock had changed and it had. Greeted by a salesman, nice guy, didn’t seem pushy; gave me the whole “product presentation” (no problem there even though I know how to turn the wipers on and where the key goes). We went for a drive, the truck drove nicely enough, went back to the showroom, he had my Mazda appraised and we started working numbers which were way off what I had expected to pay. I thanked him for his time and we parted. This freaking guy called me and emailed me twice a day until I finally told him that I was putting off the purchase for a bit. No problem and he hasn’t contacted me since, so that’s cool.
Next up, Acura for the mighty new MDX. Checked the website, inventory looks good, sent an email indicating my interest. Got back the standard reply, we will be in contact, etc. Then the salesman calls me at home at about 6:30 while I am eating dinner. I wasn’t pleased but whatever, he’s trying but it was definitely a strike against Acura. He eventually sent me a quote at about $2,500 over invoice. Not bad but I can usually do better. Called him for a test drive and drove the thing. It was nice but I wasn’t overwhelmed by it. Not a fan of the fake wood or the 10,000 buttons on the dash. I also wasn’t a fan of the torque steer under partial acceleration. Guess that what happens when you put 300HP to the front wheels. He appraises my trade and we start talking numbers. I start at invoice; he comes back with a number higher than the initial internet quote. WTF? Now of course I don’t expect to pay invoice (on a new model at least) but I am not going more than $500 over, I don’t care how hot this new model is. Ok, he goes away and comes back at $43,600. Getting there, still trying to haggle, he walks away and says ok, I can’t do 43.6, it’s now $44k. I guess it wasn’t meant to be. Funny thing, we were wrapping up and he put my Mazda keys on the table that we were sitting at and I grabbed them away really quickly. Both the salesman and the finance guy both chuckled (like they were trying to keep my keys).
Finally, off to Volvo for the XC90. I had contacted them probably last December initially but wasn’t really ready. Nice and low pressure, stop in, etc. Contacted them again this month, my initial contact had left the dealership. No problem; was told to call anytime for a test drive and we can go from there. My new contact was a lady. I think I actually prefer lady salespeople for some reason. She was really nice, low pressure and very knowledgeable about the whole product line. What do you want to drive? One of everything? No problem, here are the keys! Have fun and don’t get a ticket. I started with the base 3.2 which was actually very nice and I could see it in my garage. Next, let’s try the XC90 Sport. Holy cow! I felt like a kid again. I loved it and was ready to sign if we could strike a deal. The numbers were a little high and I though I could do a little better. I really wanted this one to work out too. I sent a message that I would have to balk at that price but am still open to negotiation. Got a message from the internet director that weekend with some survey questions, “how are we doing?” etc. I was happy to oblige as I thought this was among the best online shopping experiences so far in my quest. He wrote back and said he would work with my salesperson to see where we were at and hopefully we could work something out. That was a week ago and I haven’t heard back yet. I’ll give them until the end of month and see if things change, I’m in no hurry.
Oh, and Cadillac? I sent a message to the local dealer to inquire about the SRX. They never replied back. So GM! I may look at the X3 too; I think there are lease deals this month.
Bored:
A product presentation is exactly that. Showing the car to the customer. As far as misinformation goes, sometimes the info on the net is wrong too..
Since when is putting miles on a car and making it harder to sell “cost of doing business”? So someone can get their rocks off??
Partsisparts the whole point of this article is that yes it is the cost of doing business. The problem is that when people come into a dealership and ask for a test drive, that some of them are really looking to buy a car and that some are not. Since you do not have ESP you should treat every one as if they are a buyer. When you assume someone is there to waste your time, that is precisely when situations like the article illustrates happens. Sorry that is the cost of doing business, if you don’t then you lose the sale of the person who didn’t dress nice or who didn’t set up an appointment and say all the right things. I had the same thing happen to me at a Nissan dealer years ago when I was shopping for my first new car. You might think you know if someone is really a buyer but you really don’t know.
I think you missed my point. I am not doing this, I am just explaining why this happens. The first line of my post says the test drive is the most important part of the sales process. Then I got mocked by another reader regarding product presentations.
I agree never pre-judge a person.
You know I do have to say that how well you are treated at sales and service is quickly becoming a huge part of my vehicle choice. I presently have a Nissan. I purchased the car from a family friend during college and got a good price. However, I have since moved and have yet to find a Nissan dealership near me that isn’t full of scam artists. Last year, my car had a mechanical problem that was plainly listed as being covered by my extended warranty. I got three different excuses as to why it was not covered; the final reason being that the bolt holding the part broke and since it was not the part per se that it wasn’t covered. On the other hand, I recently took a trip with my mmother to her Honda dealership due to an isssue with her alarm. Not only was the service quick and curteous, but when I wandered into the dealerchip to look at the civic si the saleman was helpful and knew the product.
Long story short, I’ll likely be purchasing a honda and not a nissan for my next vehicle despite the fact that I can get a nissan at invoice.
Stopped by the local BMW store to browse the 3 wagon and X3 this afternoon. Every car on the lot had the $695 “paint protection package” in addition to $139 for floor mats. Unless that protection pkg protects against hail, I’m not interested.
I give up. Oh well, the 6 is almost paid off anyways…
pb35:
Unless that protection pkg protects against hail, I’m not interested.
When I was shopping for an Audi last year, the sales man told me the paint on all Audis was hail resistant. (I’m not making this up.) He said during hailstorms earlier that year, other cars on the lot were dinged but the Audis came through unscathed because of this magical paint. It took all I could do to keep from laughing out loud at him.
Which leads me to ask: if an Audi gets dented in a hailstorm, will they fix it under warranty because the hail-resistant paint didn’t work?
My problem was getting the test drive on a new Honda and the alignment was way off. The salesman asked me to pull over to the side – in a construction zone – and check to see if it didn’t have a flat.
I thought of giving him the Joan Crawford treatment, when she once asked a date to check a tire and drove off without him.
I ended up getting a Toyota – the 29mpg kind – and the bribes offered for getting the car were ridiculous. A plasma TV? I do not have a TV. Come on guys.
Then I offered cash and they really acted like the didn’t know what to do. It took them several tries to get the paperwork right.
The exact same thing happened to me 18 months ago when I went to buy a new car. I was looking at RX-8’s, STi’s, and Evos. Every Mazda dealer tossed me the keys and told me to have fun. The Subaru and Mitsu guys literally never let me drive or ride in the cars. I pulled up to the Subaru dealer in a brand new BMW and the mitsu dealer in a 1G Eclipse, the father to the Evo. The dealers just told me I had to buy it to drive it. The subie dealer even had a used STi that he wouldn’t let me drive. I’m not a young punk either- I’m 30.
I ended up with the RX-8. I love it, but I still wonder what I would have bought if I actually had a choice.
So, Cadillac finally got back to me! Hooray GM! Check out the body of the email, sales prevention at it’s finest!
Thank you for your interest in a 2007 SRX. At this time, we do not have any 2007 V8 SRX’s in stock, however we do have a 2005 V8 SRX in stock, in case you were interested in test driving this particular vehicle. Would you be interested in test driving this vehicle? I look forward to hearing from you.
You can’t make this stuff up!