According to The Age, GM Car Czar Bob Lutz is on a corporate walkabout Down Under, testing the Holden VZ ute (a.k.a. G8 El Camino) and the upcoming Canadian Camaro's Aussie homonym, the new Holden Commodore. Lutz told the paper that the weak US dollar mooted the possibility of importing the VZ ute stateside; which makes you wonder how the Hell GM can afford to sell the Pontiac G8 (a.k.a. Holden VZ Commodore) in the US for sub-$30k AND make a profit. Lutz also discussed his on-going desire to best Germany's propeller people, supported these days by GM's new rear wheel-drive Alpha platform. Lutz said the new Holden-designed Pontiac-branded car would be "equivalent to a BMW 3 Series in ride, steering and handling, although at a much cheaper price." And just in case you thought Lutz doesn't have a sense of humor, the Vice Chair and his people spent some quality time blatting around in an Elfin. The delightfully-named sports car company is owned by Tom Walkinshaw, who also owns Holden Special Vehicles.
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Nice to see GM utilise the Holden resources to go back to rear wheel drive platforms. Lutz is doing his job, talking to the “troops” and boosting “morale”.
Guys you do a car as good or better than a 3 Series!
Its a nice way of saying that an El Camino might only work in OZ, but why deflate their ego’s and national pride blame it on the exchange.
The Elfin has a Chevrolet engine, why not drive one, its the Aussie Vette.
I can get a Cadillac anywhere in the US. Don’t you have something, I dunno, more local?
El Camino?
El Caminooooo…
I’d dig a new El Camino.
His comments about matching the 3-series makes me remember Ford bragging many years ago that “if you like the Miata, you’ll love the Capri”. Of course that was before anyone had driven the late great Capri.
What a tool this guy is. Maybe if Lutz spent less time BS’ing with troops and more time and money on the product in their home market, perhaps GM could find a way out of the hole they dug.
Any idea how much Lutz’ boondoggle is costing the company? If GM wasn’t such an old boys club, maybe someone would step up and say, “Hey Lutzie, you’re not going anywhere until GM NA is cleaned up. In other words, until you do your job.” Typical GM – the building is burning down and Lutz is busy picking out new drapes.
“equivalent to a BMW 3 Series in ride, steering and handling,”
That’s potentially valid. He didn’t mention long term quality/reliability, reputation, perception, and resale value.
Someone at work owns a last gen V8 Firebird. The interior is just disgusting. The headliner is sagging, the sun visors are flat out disgusting looking. The material has separated and is hanging down and the flap on the driver side one is broke and flaps/hangs limp. His right front fender had came loose and was sagging and the door would rub on it when opened.
What’s funny about that car is how it’s rated(supposedly) at the flywheel for what; 245 or 275 hp? Just enough to smoke stock Mustangs all day long. He does and always boasts and brags to me(a Mustang driver) about how his car(stock) blows aways Mustangs. I’m thinking “man this car is lame”. It still beats stock Mustangs though. Way to go Ford. Selling those heavy, horsepower inept tanks. Watch history repeat itself. ’09 Camaro’s will have slightly more hp/tq then ’09 Mustangs and will whoop them all day long. All because Ford is unwilling to put some motor in the car. Could possibly blame it all on CAFE/fleet mileage requirements though. Build/offer some electric motor options and see how that tweaks the CAFE/fleet mileage. What type of mileage does an electric car get and how does that factor into/effect fleet mileage?
Like I’ve said before. Offer two or three engines for every single vehicle made. Mileage, performance, and potentially the half and half compromise, average, middle of the road motors that are currently installed in everything.
I saw a mint Pontiac Aztec on the road today. I thought: GM surely lost money on that vehicle. The amount spent on development and tooling vs’s the limited time they sold them and the limited amount they did sell; surely they didn’t recoup their investment? You know why? Two fold. For one; yes it was an odd ball looking vehicle which did not have mass appeal. The other is; it had nothing special. Every vehicle must have something that makes it unique or special. Low cost? Great fuel mileage? High performance? Hybrid? Diesel? Aztec was none of those and it went the way of the Aztecs(fitting name).
That’s what’s wrong with Suzuki/Hyundai. Average, generic, typical, mundane. I sure don’t want any of that bleak mediocrity in my life. I want excitment(and Pontiac: you don’t have that. You don’t have jack.). If Suzuki sold the automotive equivalent to their Hayabusa; they’d really have something.
The only imports that impress me are ~600 hp turbo Honda’s/Acuras. I don’t care what year, model, color. If it’s got the power and runs the number; that’s all it takes to impress me. Forget all that wing, body kit, big loud muffler nonsense. Strip it to the bare minimum and make it run.
http://www.honda-tech.com/
Toyota has no performance aftermarket. But every chick in town drives a Camry. I know some fool at work who drives the most dogged out Camry you’ve ever seen in your life. Dirty black stock stamped steel wheels(hubcaps have since flown off), a bronze type color car, the front clip looks like someone drove through deep snow and you can see the black plastic underneath where the paint is missing(looks awful), and a filthy interior that would make you puke because a bunch of little kids apparently eat in there and get food all over the place. Not to mention the car is full of junk/trash. Probably over 200,000 miles on it too. Reliable though… He did have it in for something or another though and that cost him some coin. Maybe it needed new brakes for $800 or some nonsense like that. Maybe the AC needed fixed for $1,000. How much are CV Joints? $600?(price at the shop+inflated labor, not parts store price)
“…although at a much cheaper price…”
I don’t know about others, but lately in particular, I have found that you generally get what you pay for.
Thinking about it some more; the Aztek could have been in the same situation the PT Cruiser is in. $9988. But nobody wants one even at that price.
A V6 Mustang might be affordable. But nobody wants a V6. Everyone wants a V8 Mustang. But that’s not so affordable. Give us the V8 at the V6 price.
I’ll show you how. You know that ridiculous “standard equipment” list on the window sticker(the stuff I don’t want)? Make it like the 1960’s again. Make all of that optional. You know what? I don’t want the stock radio, I don’t want your “fancy”(heavy/narrow/cast) wheels, I don’t need AC. I could strip the option list down so far we could have a V8 Mustang at the V6 price. Manual locks and window’s… Build it with shiny steel and spray it with clear or primer it flat black…
I saw a new Civic today. One of the smarter things I’ve seen in a long time. You know that ugly trim strip / door guard on the side that most enthusiasts/racers remove for a better look? The new Civic’s don’t have that. It’s in Honda’s best interest in every way to not have that. One less part to deal with and install. Less money. In the long term, the doors potentially get dinged up and that reduces it’s used car price. Used cars probably aren’t in the manufactures best interest.
Here’s a insidious idea if Ford/GM wanted to boost sales… Either sales in general or just one model. How many millions of dollars per year do the top people at those companies make? How much money do they have in their bank accounts?
Here’s the idea: Buy the new cars and sell them at a loss. Stay with me here. Buy a ~$20,000 car. Sell it for $18,000. Yes; you lost $2,000. But you got $18,000 of it back.
How many $20,000 cars will one million buy? Only about 50. That little marketing maneuver/number inflater exercise only cost you $100,000. How many millions do they waste on worthless marketing(print/TV)? They could sell more cars using that money to sell cars at a loss then run some add for the entire year for a pickup in the front of a magazine that I never look at(let alone read what the ad even says!!!)
Everyone is too scared to buy a Ford Fusion. It may be a good car. Who knows. Who is willing to take a chance. Sell a great number of them at a loss using marketing money to get them out there.
If on my drive to work; nearly every car on the way there and back and in the parking lot is nothing other then a Civic/Accord/Camry; well the common person might get the impression that must be a pretty good car and a good choice(consensus rules). When I see the occasional, odd ball Fusion or Edge drifting down the street(about one a week): What’s that? Must not be any good otherwise there’d be more of them around.
Here’s an idea: Take straight up trades. An Accord/Civic/Camry in exchange for a Fusion.
Or better yet, make the Ford Fusion an exciting, desirable car. Right now, it’s nothing new. Can I get a hybrid Fusion? How about a performance model? Can I get one cheap? How about one that gets ~50 mpg? Take a leap. Offer an electric Fusion, ~200 mile range to start with. Range will increase with time.
Let’s see here: 2008 Ford Fusion, ~$20,000 +/- $4,000, four doors, 3,100 lbs, four or six banger, 150 – 200 hp/tq, 20 city mpg, 26/27/28 hw mpg, yeah; your going out of business Ford. That dog will never sell. Your rep is too damaged and you give no reason to buy.
2008 Honda Civic, $15,000 – $20,000, two OR four door(2 door Fusion would be neat/nice)(hell, a rear wheel drive Fusion would be exciting/more desirable!), 2586/2628 lbs(very nice!), 115 hp is lame but 36 mpg on highway is decent(40 would be nicer(Corolla?), hybrid option is really nice, mileage is really nice 40/45, could be nicer like the Insight, stick that setup in it! Stick a turbo on that Honda! Put a turbo on the Fusion! Do something!
2009 Fusion? HA! ($50 says it’s just like the ’08 model. Same for the 2010 model.) Hey eveyone look, a 2011 model Fusion(just like the 2006 model).
Here’s a good one…. This is a stinger right here. You know that so called “fuel sensor” in E85 vehicles? Offer some car with a turbocharger. Make it a “normal” car when using gasoline. This way the EPA test it on gasoline and everything is normal. Using that E85 sensor, when the tank is filled up with E85, crank up the boost and have large enough injectors to compensate and double or triple the power!
Here’s another one. Install a button or even a switch. Potentially even somewhat hide said button. EPA tests the car and all is normal. Flip this “magic” performance switch and now double or triple the power all while meeting EPA mileage and emissions(on the default setting!).
I could see this on the diesel trucks. Theres something to be said about a crew cab diesel dually Dodge ram that has ~1,000+ ft/lbs of torque.. It should be like that from the factory. At least as an option. And the Viper should have a V8. What’s the point of a V10 when it can’t beat the V8 Corvette? Why buy a slower car for $80,000 when a faster car can be had for less?
Lutz said the new Holden-designed Pontiac-branded car would be “equivalent to a BMW 3 Series in ride, steering and handling, although at a much cheaper price.”
I hate that guy, he just completely ruined the G8 for me. Everything that comes out of his mouth is 180 degree opposite when it’s introduced in production, cheap it the only truth. I thought the stats on that car were very promising and as much as I hate GM I was going to give it a fair look. Not after that BS line, he’s pumping it up so I can be disappointed later. I think I will still take it for a test ride but I’m sure going to drive it like an M3 on the autobahn to see just how wrong Lutzy is.
Lutz can’t stay in Detriot, they don’t build cars people want there. So he is headed off to foreign lands to bring back cars people will actually buy, or he thinks they will buy at a huge loss to GM.
I haven’t worked for any car makers who didn’t have the BMW 3 or 5 series as benchmarks, and none of them have ever gotten even close. They all seem to think that BMW is standing still from the moment they benchmark …
I suspect that GM will easily equal the 3 series. The 1992 version.
Oh why on earth did GM decide to import the Holden Ute and call it an “El Camino”? Oh the humanity.
Does GM even know what the American public associates “El Caminos” with? Think “My Name is Earl” trailer park trash Cira 1976 (yea I know… Joy drives a Brat).
The Aussie Utes from Holden and Ford are fantastic cars that should, if given a decent chance and marketed properly, do very well in the US. Plus, the Germans and Japanese have NOTHING like them.
But for Christ sakes GM. Don’t go saddle them with a name that screams 1970’s junk favored by the same drunk guy wearing a wife-beater getting arrested on Cops.
One more time, GM clutches defeat from the jaws of victory.
And Ford, if you import the Ford Ute, like the SS, please, oh please, don’t name it Ranchero. That name is just as bad as GM’s ‘El Camino’.
GM claimed the 1980 Citation X-body to be “equivalent to a 3 Series”. They’ve had 27 years to live up (down) to the claim.
Oh why on earth did GM decide to import the Holden Ute and call it an “El Camino”? Oh the humanity.
Where does it say that they decided to import the Ute? All I see is that Lutz said it doesn’t make economic sense to import it right now.
yankinwaoz: where does it say that GM is importing the Ute as an El Camino? [Hint: it doesn’t]. RF was merely saving us the trip to the Holden website by telling us that we could picture a Ute by picturing a G8 El Camino.
rtz :
October 10th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Someone at work owns a last gen V8 Firebird. The interior is just disgusting. The headliner is sagging, the sun visors are flat out disgusting looking. The material has separated and is hanging down and the flap on the driver side one is broke and flaps/hangs limp.
Hey, my ’84 crapalier did this. Nice to see that in 10 years or more GM declined to address this problem. And, these are issues that JDP initial ownership surveys fail to capture, but ARE issues that keep me from entertaining the idea of purchasing another “domestic” offering.
Oh, yeah, my Toyota does not have this problem. So, for all you domestic apologists out there that feel it is my obligation to at least look at their new and improved products (no, really!), this is exhibit A as to why I will not do so.
GM: 10 years, same problem.
Toyota: Never a problem.
Bruce