"I would be surprised, shocked and dismayed if we decide not to do it." "It" is the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid, and the speaker is Bob Lutz, quoted in the New York Times. Unfortunately, time waits for no man, even Maximum Bob. It's a little over two years until 2010, when GM has promised they'll have Volts on the road, silently whizzing around on their lithium-ion batteries. Except they still haven't developed a Li-Ion battery capable of powering the car. And once they finally have a viable design, auto industry economist Walter McManus surmises "when they break ground on a plant to make batteries, two years later the Volt will come out." In the meantime, GM is already advertising the Volt on TV, but with the disclaimer "Not yet available for sale" in small print at the bottom of the screen. Perhaps they should listen to Tony Posawatz, vehicle line director for the Volt, who admits "Until the product is done there is always some degree of uncertainty. No such batteries exist today, but our confidence builds as days go on." And as days go on, the clock keeps ticking down to 2010. Tick. Tick. Tick.
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Volt = Vapormobile, just like the beautiful burgundy red Honda FCX cars that Honda showed off awhile back, promised for 2008. Yeah, IF the FCX shows up at all, it will be available for lease in Japan and California and left unsaid – in “limited numbers” as in “a few cars costing half million each”.
Vapormobiles. “Good for PR use, only.”
Honda announced the Production FCX just this week!
I suspect the Volt will emerge from development like the Tesla Roadster: lots of hype, more than a little late and not-quite ready-for-prime-time (i.e. too expensive and not performing up to the original spec).
I sure hope GM’s got a company historian on this one. It strikes me as Wagoner’s Great White Whale.
Huh?…the FCX version 1.0 is already for sale in it’s weird hatchback style. There are over 100 in the US in various government fleets and there are 2 in consumer hands. Albeit these are a kind of beta test for hydrogen vehicles.
Honda just announced production plans for the FCX version 2.0 (that sleek red sedan). They do plan on actually keeping their word (unlike GM’s constant promises to innovate and make big changes – remember all the promises about environmental responsibility they made and how they will be the leader by 2005?).
I’m not sure of the numbers they plan on selling but it will be the first true hydrogen fuel cell stack powered car sold to consumers. Most other mfgr’s supposed hydrogen efforts use it as a fuel to combust in a modified internal combustion engine – BMW for example. Honda’s technology is far beyond anyone elses in this domain as they started working prototypes in the early 90’s. They partnered with Ballard and made significant improvements on early fuel cells – switching it’s operation over to a vertical setup to use gravity, increasing it’s power and range (efficiency) and even overcoming the major problem of startup below 32f / 0c temeratures.
As someone noted the Volt is a vapormobile by GM – and the usual puffery for a vehicle that doesn’t yet exist nor does GM have a clue how to make it within their prescribed deadlines.
Honda does something that is rare in the auto industry…they back up their promises with actual delivery.
We need a Chevy Volt countdown clock, so we can watch it tick down while the excuses keep coming.
“May never be available for sale” should be the disclaimer.
While the cost may initially hold Honda back from producing the number of cars many would like to see, the FCX is indeed a real car, as others have pointed out.
Honda – 10/2007: Honda’s next generation hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle will make its world debut at the Los Angeles Auto Show, November 14, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today.
Based on the FCX Concept that has impressed journalists at multiple test drive events over the past year, this all-new fuel cell vehicle will be marketed to fleet and retail customers in the U.S. and Japan beginning in 2008.
And they’ve thought the thing through:
Automobile.com – 2/2006:
And that brings me to the last item relating to this revolutionary concept [the FCX]: Hondas Home Energy Station (HES). The HES is an all purpose energy station for home and vehicle energy needs. When fed a steady diet of natural gas (which, at the molecular level, consists mostly of carbon and hydrogen) that is readily available in most residences, the HES converts the gas to straight hydrogen. The hydrogen is then stored for future use, piped into your hydrogen-powered car, or used by the HES for its own set of fuel cells to generate electricity for the home. The system not only reduces carbon dioxide emissions by some 40 percent, it also is expected to lower the total running cost of household electricity, gas and vehicle fuel by 50 percent. Who wouldnt want to save 50 percent on their gas bill? [Crazy people, thats who, and maybe the guy that who just bought Exxon stock, and probably the Saud family!]
Honda: Executives passionate about research and engineering.
GM: Executives passionate about PR– and their annual compensation.
Robert Farago: I sure hope GM’s got a company historian on this one. It strikes me as Wagoner’s Great White Whale.
Or a 21st century copper-cooled Chevrolet…
You mean it was just a slap dash concept inventory mish-mash thrown together to steal some ink during an autoshow?
That’s never happened before. ;-)
While it is absolutely true that Honda is planning on a “production” FCX (to use the term loosely) – I stick by my point that there is not a whole lot of difference in the real world between having a few dozen experimental cars “in production” and having promises, promises.
The point is – I can go down to my Honda dealer virtually anywhere in the world and buy a Honda Civic IMA hybrid, and can go down to my Toyota dealer virtually anywhere in the world and buy a Prius or Cambry Hybrid.
Repeat after me, please. When the FXC “production” car “comes out” it is going to be only LEASED in California and Japan.
Sound like a rehash of the GM Saturn EV1 to me.
glenn126: I stick by my point that there is not a whole lot of difference in the real world between having a few dozen experimental cars “in production” and having promises, promises.
Okay.
We promise to build the Volt (GM).
We do build the FCX (Honda).
Whole lot or not, there is a difference.
How long did it take the new platform-based but very conventional Solstice to get from styling mule to on sale?
Take that number and pick an integer multiple greater than one for bringing the Volt to market.
What was it…3, 4years?
I pick 3 as my integer.
2015 if they are real quick.
Bunter
OK Glenn Swanson, I’ll grant you that you’re right. I have also got a lot more admiration for Honda than General Messup, no doubt about it.
But you’ll also want to be admitting that it probably won’t be a great idea for me to sit outside my Honda store here in Michigan waiting on a chance to buy an FCX, any more than it will for me to be waiting outside the Chevy store next door, for a chance to buy a Volt. (Not that I’d ever buy a Chevy again but that’s beside the point). Either way, it’s going to be a LOOOONG wait.
Wow…
The Volt certainly has stolen the vaporware thunder from the new (still unreleased) Camaro.
When was the last time GM got more press about an actual production car than one of its concepts?
GM is still the absolute master of overpromising… Then underdelivering… Several years too late.
At this point, I’d say the best way for GM to bring the Volt to market in a reasonable time frame at reasonable cost is to base it on Hybrid Synergy Drive and build it side-by-side in a NUMMI factory with the Prius.
You know, like the Vibe. Perhaps, like the Vibe, the GM version will look better (IMHO).
“GM may have to abandon car due to poor planning and lack of technology whilst Bob Lutz does his best impression of ‘Comical’ Ali. In other news, the sky is blue and the grass is green……”
You know, I think reading this site has made me a touch more cynical……!