Well neither does the National Highway Safety Traffic Administration, apparently, as it's not going to issue a safety recall for the 3.5 million full-size GM pickups and SUVs built in 2003 and 2004 at risk of speedo failure. GM says it will repair faulty units– as long as the trucks so afflicted have less than 70k miles on the [hopefully functional] odometer. KXAS-TV tells the tale of a GM customer who disagrees– but can't do a damn thing about it. "The speedometer in Sonia Martin's truck makes her look like a speed demon. With her husband on disability, Martin said she can't afford the $400 it would cost to fix it. 'I didn't have that kind of money, and I took it to two different dealers… You have to hope and pray you're not going to get a ticket or get in a wreck or get run over by a semi.'" After learning that Ms. Martin's truck is only 1k over the limit, GM told the TV station that dealers can make free repairs in cases where the mileage is close to the limit. So… why didn't they? Once again, GM and its dealers show their true stripes.
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And to think I’m stupid enough to be interested in a CTS, then I hear stories like this and I go “GAH! That’s right! I’d have to deal with GM dealers! FORGET IT!” and I go back to looking at Benz and BMW.
From Planes, Trains, and Automobiles
(When John Candy and Steve Martin are pulled over while driving a burned out hulk of a rental car)
Cop: “Do you know how fast you were going?”
John Candy: “No sir… It’s a long story, but the speedometer’s melted.”
Cop: “Do you have any functioning gauges?”
Candy: “No sir, not a one.”
Cop: “…”
Candy: “Funny thing though, the radio works perfectly! Clear as a bell! *giggles*
Not to defend GM(as if anybody could), why didnt the owner contact GM Customer Service instead of going to a TV station? Could not the owner have requested a meeting with the local GM District Service Manager?
If the customer was diligent in the upkeep of the vehicle, kept all service receipts, and had all the work performed at a GM dealership, you KNOW she would have gotten some financial assistance in her speedo repair situation. Maybe she pays for the labor, GM gives her the parts, or vice-verse.
TV stations do not repair vehicles. Yes, she may be taken care of in this instance now, but the damage is done.
Not to defend GM(as if anybody could), why didnt the owner contact GM Customer Service instead of going to a TV station? Could not the owner have requested a meeting with the local GM District Service Manager?
If the customer was diligent in the upkeep of the vehicle, kept all service receipts, and had all the work performed at a GM dealership, you KNOW she would have gotten some financial assistance in her speedo repair situation. Maybe she pays for the labor, GM gives her the parts, or vice-verse.
I think the actual premise behind this article is that it should not be that difficult and as much of a hassle to get a simply “safety” repair on a 4 year old vehicle that is ONLY 1000 miles beyond the warranty cut-off point. Somehow I bet the majority of Toyota dealer will bend over backward to make a questionable safety repair for an EXISTING customer with a 2004 Tundra simply BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SELL THEM ANOTHER NEWER, MORE EXPENSIVE TUNDRA TOMORROW!
As long as GM (and its dealers) are willing to tell their EXISTING customer to go F*&k themselves they can expect to continue to see a decline in their marketshare. There is soooo much competition out there today! I bet their are Ford, Nissan, and Toyota dealers that are looking this woman’s contact info up this morning and ARE goingto give her a call!
Yep, next time she needs a new truck, where will she go first? Ford or Toyota, dollars to donuts.
GM is typically very un-accommodating about even slightly out of limit warranty repairs. 500 miles over, tough luck. Honda, on the other hand, has been extremely generous in doing goodwill repairs of known trouble spots well past the warranty period.
Last year Honda replaced a failed load module detector (whatever that is) on our Accord even though it was 18k miles out of warranty because it was a known trouble spot with a TSB out on it. The dealer called Honda, Honda authorized a free repair and that was that.
I’ve been saying for years that Detroit should take a big portion of it’s largely wasted advertising budget and use it to fund a much more generous warranty/goodwill allocation in order to make it’s customers happy. Happy customers come back. Pissed off customers join the Never Again Club.
When will those overpaid MBAs figure this out????
Terry
Ever contacted customer service for an auto manufacturer?
The manufacturer views safety-related equipment and parts differently than the customer. Brakes, restraint systems,steering, suspension,items that can cause a fire or occupant seating issues, controls, etc are on the list. Not speedometer or guage problems.
What IS true is how desperately the carmaker or dealership wants to retain the customer, and in that area, the imports have it all over the domestics.
You say..”only 1000 miles beyond the warranty..”, but, what SHOULD BE the statute of limitations concerning the warranty? 2000 miles beyond?5000, 10,000?
Did she buy the vehicle new, buy an extended service contract?
All she had to do when given the bad news by the service advisor was to ask the service manager to contact the factory service rep. Not that difficult.
Remember–the dealership is a business, and as such exists to make money, not to lose money. The dealer will be reimbursed for the labor and parts by either the customer, the manufacturer, or an extended service contract company–but not the dealership itself UNLESS the dealer is responsible for the failure.
It was evidently too difficult for the customer to contact the manufacturer, but not too hard for them to contact a TV station??
# andyinsdca :
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Terry
Ever contacted customer service for an auto manufacturer?
YES, I do it every day, as do our service advisors and service managers on behalf of our customers.
Business as usual over at GM.
Try it from the customer side. I’ve dealt with Chrysler (Jeep), and Audi and I’ve permanently sworn both marques off because of those experiences. In fact, with Audi, the experience was so bad, that if someone wanted to give me a free RS8 with free gas for life, I wouldn’t take it.
*THIS* is the kind of crap I like to bring up when a Detroit apologist flies the Tundra recall flag in front of my face. Yes, the Tundra has had recalls–but that’s because Toyota is willing to admit and fix problems!
If I wasn’t one before, I am now an import bigot. GM can go George Michael itself.
Also, if you’re counting on your speedometer to keep you from getting run over by a semi, your demise is inevitable. Park your truck and don’t leave the house anymore.
In GM’s defense, my Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealer recently repaired my 2007 GTP’s rear window defogger grid for free, even though it had been broken by the monkeys I paid to tint my windows.
If GM told me that the speedo was going to break and no warranty when I bought the truck along with the 400+ TSB’s put out for these units, I would have ran out the door immediately to the competition. Unfortunately after premature mechanical, starter, window regulator and poor quality chrome, paint and interior items I now have to contend with another non safety issue. GM will not have to worry about the competitors, they will self destruct themselves. They beat down the engineers and vendors on price, so what do you get? Lousy quality…. When was the last time you heard of a speedo not working in a new vehicle. This is not a wear item, you do not replace this at 70,000 miles. It is not in the scheduled maintenance last I looked. This should be a one time no mileage fix if they have a solution to the problem.
G.M. has allways given the dealers too much leeway.We can bust our butt building great cars,and all it takes is one crappy dealer and its gone.
If I was at the top rather than the bottom at G.M.I would personaly pull the franchise of any dealer anywhere,that treated a customer like that.
General Motors should be ashamed of some of the bandits that drag the G.M logo through the mud.
If G.M wants to keep the turn around alive they gotta take on the dealers now!
This doesn’t surprise me. My Buick Century recently had it’s LED Odometer display go blank and I had to buy an entire gauge module. I suspect that is probably the same for current GM cars. If the speedometer stops working, you probably need to replace the entire gauge module. Not cheap and GM’s lawyers are more powerful than mine.
whatdoiknow1: My parents had a Corolla with a defective battery. Dealer refused to acknowledge they sold them the battery despite the fact that my parents had a receipt. My personal experience is that GM dealers are much better than Toyota dealers. My advice is always to find a good dealer. It’s more important now a days than a good car.
“All she had to do when given the bad news by the service advisor was to ask the service manager to contact the factory service rep.”
Why should she? Why should she be expected to know that? The customer shouldn’t need to understand the internal organization of the vendor. When the guy refusing the repair is standing under a huge “GM” sign and has “GM” sewn on his shirt — to the customer, that’s GM. If GM doesn’t want to lose customers over it, that’s their problem.
Poor treatment of this customer aside, the speedometer should _never_ break and should always be under warranty. I see people complaining about how the switchgear wears out prematurely in domestic cars, but I can understand that people take care of things differently and that the manufacturer cannot be held liable for that. But there’s no way for anyone to abuse the speedometer. Pick a long service life (say 20 years) and design the part to last that long. If you can’t do that, then I don’t want you building the rest of my car.
GM is hardly the only manufacturer with niggardly, short-sighted warranty administration policies.
By 16-months and 7,300-miles we twice had difficulty starting our new Acura. This time it failed to start. Though the new car warranty fully guaranteed the battery I had to forcefully demand a replacement from the Service Manager, a distasteful and unnecessary episode. The new battery appears to be of significantly lesser quality than the original.
We have not been back to the dealer for service since. Though we like our Acura, life is too short to put up with crap. When the time came to buy a new second car we chose an Infiniti.
uh-oh …. Bad news … this happened on the speedo of my 2005 Impala on the way back from Florida. It resolved itself at the Georgia border (The speedo magically began to work properly, and hasn’t happened again since).
I was/still am hestitant to take it back for service. The diagnostic charges would have put me in the poor house, and likely would not have resulted in any fix – even after changing mulitple components (Yep, its been out of warranty for a while).
The good news is there should be a dealer bulletin out shortly.
ERP
Problem is customers want it both ways, they knowingly buy a poor quality vehicle they can’t afford just because it is discounted and then they go and whine when it isn’t repaired free even out of warranty. At the same time they drive like total retards and when they finally get written up they blame it on the non functioning speedo.
What they need is a clue by four over the head.
I’m sorry but this isn’t a GM issue. It’s a dealer issue.
I’ve seen plenty of safety and condition related issues be ignored by import and domestic brands.
Toyota – Engine sludge (ignored for years and fought tooth an nail by the parent company), catalytic converters (highest failure rate I see for late model vehicles… and no recalls to boot.
Honda – Odometer issues and transmission issues that still have not been recalled.
Volvo- Seat belts (believe it or not), ABS modules (notoriously bad in mid to late 90’s models), 5-speed automatic transmissions.
You can pretty much go down the list and find any automaker and/or dealer with a fuzzy line for defect issues. I remember I had a 1991 Toyota Celica GT-S with a defective solenoid sensor that was just barely out of warranty. The dealer refused to take care of it… period. Is that Toyota’s fault? Not unless the dealer laws and recall standards in the North American market get changed dramatically.
I’m sorry but this isn’t a GM issue. It’s a dealer issue.
From the customer’s standpoint, it’s six of one, half dozen of the other.
KPS above nailed it: The customer shouldn’t need to understand the internal organization of the vendor. When the guy refusing the repair is standing under a huge “GM” sign and has “GM” sewn on his shirt — to the customer, that’s GM. If GM doesn’t want to lose customers over it, that’s their problem.
Amen, brothers and sisters. When the market share keeps falling, you’ll know who to blame, and it won’t be the customer or the TV station.
Consider me the choir for singing that song.
Speedometers should not break period!
This is the concept that GM need to get into its head if the general truly wants to compete. Repairing broken speedometers under warranty is NOT what GM needs to be doing nowadays. GM needs to install speedometers that do NOT break!
This is a no brainer and honestly I have only seen broken speedos on very cheap cars or VERY OLD cars. Take your pick, but a broken or defective speedo on a vehicle that is only 4 years old is BAD NEWS for a company with an already bad reputation for quality and reliabilty. Like I said speedometers should not breakdown and to see a broken one in a fairly new car says corner-cutting, cheap part using!
What else is going to fail under regular non-abusive day to day use?
Gm should not be concerned about how other comapnies handle these types of issues. GM needs to be concerned with how GM is handling these issues.
Yes, the customer shouldnt need to know the inner workings of the manufacturer or dealership…but she knew enough to get the media involved! Did she not get papers with her new truck–a WARRANTY BOOKLET– that spelled out the terms of service and what to do if a disagreement arises?
And whether a speedometer should work for a given length of time isnt the issue here–just how long IS the warranty? If the manufacturer refuses to foot the bill should the dealership?
If the warranty specified 4 years and 4 years and a day later, the warranty is OVER-PERIOD.
Concerning the Toyota oil sludge issue…the Toyota franchise in our dealership network has seen FEW sludge problems with those cars. I ask ALL of you–do any of own a sludged Toyota, know anybody personally with a sludged Toyota?
In talks with the Toyota service advisors in our network, the main problem was lack of maintenance, and in all cases Toyota stepped right up and authorized the repairs.
I guess what youre all saying is that vehicles should be warrantied bumper-to-bumper for life. Does that about sum it up?
Those Dallas / F.W dealerships (not to mention Corporate) are really serious about fighting off the inroads being made by the Tundra, aren’t they? Recall the Tundra is built in San Antonio.
This lackadaisical, half-assed, attempt at satisfying customers of one of GM’s most profitable vehicles signifies everything which is wrong with this company- it is rotten to the very core and will NOT redeem itself.
It doesn’t know how.
YES, I do it every day, as do our service advisors and service managers on behalf of our customers.
You might want to ask yourself why neither GM dealership suggested that route. Or perhaps she did contact the DSM, you have no idea if she went straight to the TV station or if she sought them out at all. Point is, when an obvious design defect like this comes along, it was a pre existing condition, on the verge of failure when it was well within warranty. In fact one could argue that since the ODO is faulty how can you trust what it says anyway? This is a very serious problem that will render a car unfit for the road in many places and greatly affect resale value. How can anyone trust the milage on one of these cars now in the used market?
Tankdog, I cant speak for GM dealerships, but just look at the imfamous 3.1/3.4 V6 intake manifold coolant leaks. Many customers are paying hundreds of dollars repairing these engines, many more than once. You could make the case that a coolant leak renders the car unsaleable, and unsafe as well if the engine runs out of coolant in stop and go traffic. Engine design error? Dexron coolant issue?
Where does warranty coverage start, and where does it stop?
Nuts. I had to drive a Suburban with this problem a while back. It was still under warranty at the time. Any GM dufus that doesn’t get this is a safety issue ought to get a pink slip Monday morning.
Tankdog, I cant speak for GM dealerships, but just look at the imfamous 3.1/3.4 V6 intake manifold coolant leaks. Many customers are paying hundreds of dollars repairing these engines, many more than once. You could make the case that a coolant leak renders the car unsaleable, and unsafe as well if the engine runs out of coolant in stop and go traffic. Engine design error? Dexron coolant issue?
Where does warranty coverage start, and where does it stop?
I had a 1993 4 Runner with the 3.0L engine. They had faulty head gaskets, Toyota recalled it and replaced it even though it had not failed yet. It then did fail well out of warranty and Toyota replaced it again because there had been a second update to the gasket which I had not received. It went another 50,000km before I sold it, I assume it had no more problems since. Where does warranty coverage start and where does it end? Not at GM aparently. Warranty is supposed to cover you against manufacturing defects within the warranty period. Well if a defect has been identified to have been in a vehicle right out of the factory, that is within the warranty period. Some comanies own up to their mistakes, like Microsoft with the Xbox, some don’t like GM with just about everything. Unfortunately, as Toyota has taken GMs sales numbers it appears they have also adopted some of their policies.
1987 Chevy Cavalier Z24 digital dashboard.
None worked past 70,000 miles. – How does an electronic instrument cluster with no moving parts fail so frequently?
My particular cluster was repaired 3 times – all broken “flexible” circuit connections. It seems GM or their suppliers have not figured out, in 20 years, how to manufacture a reliable instrument cluster.
I’m a former GM owner now a member of the Never Again Club.
-ted
It’s possible that the customer exceeded 130mph and simply “broke” the speedo – that would fall under “abuse”, and thus would not be covered. (/non reality)
A co-worker’s son bought an old fixer-upper Honda CRX (a mid 80’s rust bucket, essentially) and found out about a seat-belt recall on the Web; he called a local dealer; they ordered new seatbelt assemblies and installed them for free. Now I don’t know if the government mandates free repairs on seatbelts, but there was no guff from the dealer, and the service was reasonably fast.
An aside: That GM speedometer is nearly identical in appearence to the one in my ’97 Camaro (which is still functional, possibly because it’s mechanical?).
Saftey recalls like seatbelts are gov’t mandated so you’ll always get those done no problem. However, “some” manufacturers actually voluntarily recall things because they are prone to premature failure and/or do not operate as intended, even if they are not a safety issue.
Many of these recalls will have a milage limit on them, that limit will be the average service life of the part were it not defective. Which is only fair. For example: I shouldn’t expect to get a new muffler out of GM at 150k just because it had a recall on it back when it was new and I didn’t bring it is to be replaced then. Recalled or not, I got more than the average expected the service life out of that part.
Now maybe this speedo thing is not as common as it sounds on GMs trucks, maybe there was just a bad batch of them out there for a limited time during production but they can’t identify which vehicles have them so they are going case by case.
HOWEVER, the fact that they are only covering up to 70,000 miles tells me that their expectation for the mean service life of a speedometer is 70,000 miles. If it was a limited problem and most speedos out there are ok, them GM should be able to offer unlimited milage coverage without it costing them any extra money. That in itself is pretty telling, personally it would never cross my mind to budget $400 for speedo replacement on a new or used vehicle of any milage, but I buy Toyotas and Hondas.
Geek alert! I’m gonna get techy now.
shaker: An aside: That GM speedometer is nearly identical in appearance to the one in my ‘97 Camaro (which is still functional, possibly because it’s mechanical?).
Not likely, I haven’t seen a cable driven speedo since the 1980s. And the cable driven units are the ones most likely to fail, bouncing needles when they get out of shape.
Today’s speedos get binary from the engine computer, which (usually) gets the word from a vehicle speed sensor in the transmission. The same info is used for engine (idle speed, fuel injector duty cycle, etc) transmission (torque converter lockup) power steering (variable speed boost) stereo (volume compensating) and God knows what else in the UK nanny state.
That means if the truck works fine aside from the speedo, its one component in the gauge cluster that needs to be fixed: a $50-ish speedometer (GM’s cost) and maybe 1.5 hours of labor (@$75 hr) at the dealer.
This problem reeks of the “sweep under the rug” attitude GM has with piston slap in their trucks:
http://www.pistonslap.com/
GM did in fact admit it had a problem and that its engineering department was working on the fix. The fix was promised to be made to consumer’s engines in the spring or summer of 2002. As the number of slapping engines grew and the cost to repair them grew as well, GM changed its policy.
.
Around 1998, GM switched from a “Select Build” method of manufacturing and/or assembling engines to a “Net Build” method, in order to save money on manufacturing and/or assembly. In the Select Build process, pistons and cylinders are matched for size and fit. GM’s new “Net Build” method of manufacturing and/or assembly, in contrast, assumes all pistons will fit equally well in all cylinders and does not allow for variations in the size of engine cylinders or pistons. The pistons of slightly varying size (all within spec) are not individually matched with the cylinders of slightly varying size (all within spec).
Pre GM saab covered wheel bearings under a recall, with no symptoms or issues. Bob Sinclair era Saab covered radio issues and such also beyond the mileage.
Today BMW covered me for Satnav issues past warranty, and the people there really cared and wanted to make it right for the next customer.
No one writes for good news, but I’d consider BMW again in a heartbeat…..
It may also be true that support for a “luxury” brand is a lot better than a base brand. Sadly, as the owner of luxury brand usually has more options (cars in the driveway) than the owner of the mass market car.
And whether a speedometer should work for a given length of time isnt the issue here–just how long IS the warranty? If the manufacturer refuses to foot the bill should the dealership?
If the warranty specified 4 years and 4 years and a day later, the warranty is OVER-PERIOD.
Terry, with all due respect, if you are trying to confirm everyone’s worst fears about the flimsiness of warranties on domestic cars, then you did a fine job of it.
Here’s the basic problem: A lot of us think that domestic cars (or at least a lot of them) suck. To get us to stop believing that, consumers are going to want to see the manufacturers go the extra mile to stand behind their products.
How many customers do General Motors and its dealers need to lose before it finally realizes that they are going to lose their way out of business? It’s incidents like these that explain why GM is losing market share and why those who do buy them often expect to be bribed with high incentives and steep discounts in order to buy them.
PCH–I understand your concerns, but where is this “flimsiness” you refer to? Are not the details of the warranty spelled out in the warranty booklet?
What you are after is “after warranty expires treatment”.
I can’t speak for all situations at other dealerships, but at mine, for example:
Customer comes in with a transmission slipping complaint–all records in our files indicate he has maintained the vehicle as per manufacturer specification. I verify the complaint. Technically, the vehicle is out of warranty, either by miles, time, or both. At this point, my service advisor will have the service manager contact the district service manager, and the usual outcome is a new transmission and labor FREE. All in the interest of retaining customer loyalty. In other cases, the customer will pay half the repair, OR the parts, OR the labor, depending on maintenance. You have a customer that has purchased several vehicles, you want to keep that customer happy as a dealership and as a manufacturer.
The salesperson will sell the customer his 1st car–after that, it’s the service department that sells the rest.
If, from this thread you deduce that SOME domestics are somewhat clueless or uncaring
in that regard..well….look around you in traffic, see how many imports are now on the road…
Somewhere along the road, somebody either lost his a$$ in depreciation, reliability, or had a poor service experience.
Terry
The domestics are clueless and uncaring. That’s why out here in Socal, there are tons more Hondas/Toyotas/BMW/Benz/etc than there are domestics on the road.
And if that’s the way things work at your dealership, you’re probably the only domestic dealership on the planet like that. Horror stories abound here in San Diego about the domestic dealerships.
Sajeev:
I dug out the Haynes manual for my car, and it appears that you’re correct — the removal instructions for the instrument cluster make no mention of a speedometer cable…
So it begs the question: Car manufacturers will apparently seek the lowest price supplier, even if it means the risk of a defect that didn’t even exist before (i.e. speedometer failure). It must certainly be difficult to beancount this way, as it may result in an affordable vehicle with nice features, yet you mortgage your future on shaky customer satisfaction.
The real pisser is that the little motor that drives the speedo needle is probably (by itself) a $5 item, yet is buried so deep in the assembly that the labor cost to replace the $5 item could run into many hundreds of dollars.
So, split the difference, and replace the instrument cluster entirely. (rolleyes)
# andyinsdca :
November 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Terry
And if that’s the way things work at your dealership, you’re probably the only domestic dealership on the planet like that.
Well….actually, I am a Mazda dealership. But the same philosophy concerning customer treatment exists throughout our entire 13-dealer network, both for the domestics and the import lines.
Customers are customers and without them youre doomed. Doesnt mater if your selling or servicing TVs, toaster-ovens, or anything else.
Many times I view the traditonal domestic manufacturers as one big circular firing squad.
As I see it, the domestics are now the “foreign” cars, the transplants are the NEW AMERICAN CAR INDUSTRY.
PCH–I understand your concerns, but where is this “flimsiness” you refer to? Are not the details of the warranty spelled out in the warranty booklet?
Because domestics do not have the reliability and durability of their better transplant rivals, they need to do more to make up for that deficiency. Not just average or the same as everyone else, but more.
I see this as one of the real problems that the domestic makers have in mounting a recovery. They really don’t understand that have poor reputations that were rightfully earned — they are convinced that they have been getting it right all along, and that it was the customers who were wrong. As a result, every customer grievance is chocked up as a “perception” problem, when they are actually part of a big ugly reality problem.
Bad reputations can only be remedied through consistent, sincere, extraordinary acts of redemption. The domestics will have to go the extra mile, again and again, in order to convince the skeptical that they are worth another chance.
Fighting customers over something slightly out of warranty that should not have broken in the first place is proof positive that they still don’t get it. If they put 1/10th of the effort that they spent whining about their “bad luck” into earning customer trust, they might actually become profitable again, but I’m not holding my breath.
shaker: Of course there’s no speedo cable. When I’m not writing for TTAC, I’m a bit of a grease monkey. :)
It must certainly be difficult to beancount this way, as it may result in an affordable vehicle with nice features, yet you mortgage your future on shaky customer satisfaction.
Its pretty easy when you think stock prices and short term market share gains. After all, when you pay a multi-discipline team of beancounters to use the cheapest resistors, flimsy ribbon connectors…the list goes on…they must be doing something right to keep the company afloat.
This isn’t a UAW thing, its a management thing. Heaven forbid management instills a culture of thinking about the consequences of your actions. Then again, installing crappy parts is a pretty good idea for a Car Czar’s Christmas bonus.
This is why I blame Jac Nasser and his cost-cutting goons for putting grade “C” Firestone tires on Ford Explorers. Problem is, we don’t hear about the garbage parts until the recall hits the media.
This doesn’t deserve a recall, but I think GM should step up and extend the warranty on that component if it’s a common problem.
I think it’s strange that she can afford to own and operate a relatively new full-size truck, but she doesn’t have $400 of spare money to be able to fix it. Automotive repairs are inevitable.
A co-worker’s son bought an old fixer-upper Honda CRX (a mid 80’s rust bucket, essentially) and found out about a seat-belt recall on the Web; he called a local dealer; they ordered new seatbelt assemblies and installed them for free.
My Honda dealer will fix or repair seatbelts for the life of the vehicle — recall, warranty or not.
I’m sure Honda is doing this for some product-liability calculation and not altruism, but it’s a nice service to the customer and it builds loyalty that they’ll cover you on safety issues.
WRT: http://www.pistonslap.com
“Around 1998, GM switched from a “Select Build” method of manufacturing and/or assembling engines to a “Net Build” method, in order to save money on manufacturing and/or assembly. In the Select Build process, pistons and cylinders are matched for size and fit. GM’s new “Net Build” method of manufacturing and/or assembly, in contrast, assumes all pistons will fit equally well in all cylinders and does not allow for variations in the size of engine cylinders or pistons. The pistons of slightly varying size (all within spec) are not individually matched with the cylinders of slightly varying size (all within spec).”
Someone posted this link some time ago and, when I read the above paragraph, I burst out laughing.
The idea of Toyota or Honda doing “Select Build” is just laughable. I am quite sure that they manufacture their parts to such tolerances that a line worker could not find the best fit in the parts bin. As the assembly line moves along, parts built to the right tolerances are just merged together as they come along.
GM, if you must “Select Build” your engines, you’re making the parts wrong.
—
Speedometer failures, “Select Build,” whatever; none of this has me panting after a new Malibu.
Terry: One only needs to look at Mazda’s handling of the RX-8 engine problems vs. GM’s of the piston slap issues. RX-8 owners get a new (reman) motor (after some bad press and general internet bashing). GM owners get a piece of paper stating that where 1 quart of oil usage between changes was normal when you bought this truck, times have changed and now 4 quarts between changes is normal. However if yours is using 5 quarts befor eyour warranty is up, well 5 quarts will be the new normal for you.
GM just does not get it. You can’t get away with this stuff anymore, not with the everyone having easy access to the internet. People now compare notes, when that district service manager says “This is the first time we’ve seen this happen.” we know damn well he’s lying.
What GM needs to do is exactly what Hyundai did, any idiot can see that. The problem is they don’t want to give up an extra dime to the customer now in order to gain an extra dollar later. They are the dinosaurs, blissfully munching away on the last remaining plants as the darkness takes hold.
It’s just a little bit different in this case, Tankd0g.
The RX-8 “issues”(you dont wanna know) happened DURING the stated warranty period, early in the product’s life. This speedo problem in this gal’s truck case, whether identified earlier or not–happened after. Also in terms of priority, an engine that won’t run takes priority over an inoperative speedometer, dontcha think?
I personally think between the import dealerships and the domestic dealerships,we are talking 2 different cultures. The domestic customers accept the foibles of their carmakers, the import owners will not.
I also believe that, while a sale is a sale, the domestics have given up on trying to get the import owner to buy their product. The best they hope for it to retain what customers they do have, and evidently they’re not using service to accomplish that.
A company that builds undesirable products, products with questionable reliability and resale value, and has poor product support in the service side deserves to die on the vine.
Side note: to many of us, the domestics already dead, and the typical import–or transplant–owner doesnt even have the domestic manufacturer on his radar screen.20+ years later, many consumers have never even owned a domestic car, and have no reason to switch to them. Those that have switched wont go back. So my question is…unless youre an investor or work for the domestics, why the continued interest in the Deathwatch Series? Isnt it like beating a dead horse?
Yeah, sign me up for the new Malibu (aka.CamCordia beater)!! This makes me believe GM really is turning the corner and is committed to quality.
Why does anyone continue to buy GM products? I really want to know.
“Why does anyone continue to buy GM products? ”
Maybe they are Detroit Bigots :).
The better question is why would anyone think the american public is going to suddenly jump out of their Accords and Camrys in droves and switch to the Malibu and Fusion just because they are nice looking cars.
Many are gonna wait for their Toyondas to drop the ball (Toyota dealers are already guilty of that) and for Consumer Reports to give the Malibu a clean bill of health.
Speaking of, the Fusion already got CR’s green light, has that helped sales in the past 6 months?
Terry: Why did you take my apples to apples comparisons of faulty engines within warranty and change it to apples and oranges? If you think domestic buyers accept this sort of treatment and (lack of) quality in their automobiles then you must have gone to the same school most of the GM brass did. It boils down to this. GM, Ford and Chrysler have been building cars to last for the duration of the warranty period. As if cars are computers, to be discarded every 3 years. This is the perfect car for fleets. This is not a successful business model for building repeat retail business.
I didn’t know that my 10-year-old Ranger still had a warranty,tankd0g. Not that anything has broken in a long time.
Ford and GM won’t see me for a long time because I keep stuff ’til it barely makes it to the junk yard under its own power and that’ll be some time in the 20-teens if some idiot doesn’t total either my Aztek or my Ranger.
tankd0g :
November 25th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Terry: “Why did you take my apples to apples comparisons of faulty engines within warranty and change it to apples and oranges? If you think domestic buyers accept this sort of treatment and (lack of) quality in their automobiles then you must have gone to the same school most of the GM brass did.”
Tankd0g, perhaps I didnt correctly make my point.
The domestic consumers in our dealership(we had Oldsmobile along with Mazda and Subaru before GM pulled the plug on them) have given me the impression that poor fit, finish, leaks, etc are just normal, since that is what they’ve become accustomed to.
Then they buy a Toyota(Maz/Hon/Nis etc) and it’s like the big hammer dropped out of the sky, hit them in the forehead, and now they can see the light.
Ive seen many seniors in the waiting room boasting about how this one’s on his 2nd engine, this one’s on his 2nd transmission, this one is having his intake gaskets replaced for $900, all of them smiling the whole time.
To me, working in a dealership, the attitudes and expectations of the domestic customer couldnt be any more different from the import owner. Hence my perception of 2 different cultures.
For the record, I work on ALL cars both domestic and import with the same high regard for the customer. But this isnt about me, it’s about who best serves the customer,and by extension who best serves the company.
The import/transplants are simply doing whatever it takes to build customer loyalty, to not give customers reasons to shop elsewhere, and to make the consumer feel as though both the customer and the company have a mutual investment. An investment in customer satisfaction that will be rewarding to the manufacturer and the vehicle owner.
To your apples and oranges comment, I do see your point. But the RX-8 issues should have been ironed out LONG before the car was introduced, and in many cases the car has been a black eye for Mazda compared to the other cars in their lineup. Mazda had no choice but to tackle the problems promptly and forcefully lest the rest of the line be painted with the same brush.
Do you think GM thinks the same way?
We all know which manufacturers are into customer satisfaction, loyalty, and retention. And who arent.
zenith: I suggest you don’t buy anything from them designed in the last decade (unlike the ranger), that trip to the junk yard will be a lot sooner than you figured.
Terry: We seem to be in agreement? :)
# tankd0g :
November 25th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Terry: We seem to be in agreement? :)
Absolutely!
$400 from the dealer ?
why not just go somewhere else – I’d imagine it can’t actually cost more than $100 to fix – I fixed it in my old MR2 and in my Civic
probably less if you look up how to do it on the internet and do it yourself.
$400 from the dealer ?
why not just go somewhere else – I’d imagine it can’t actually cost more than $100 to fix – I fixed it in my old MR2 and in my Civic
probably less if you look up how to do it on the internet and do it yourself.
For that matter, get a $99 GPS and you’ll be far more accurate than any GM speedometer ever was. Not really the point of this story of course.
“That means if the truck works fine aside from the speedo, its one component in the gauge cluster that needs to be fixed: a $50-ish speedometer (GM’s cost) and maybe 1.5 hours of labor (@$75 hr) at the dealer. ”
Sajeev, I beg to differ in opinion. If one component in the guage cluster fails, you replace the entire gauge cluster at significant more money than just the broken guage. You may look in the service manual and find part numbers for each gauge, but I doubt you’ll be able to actually find the individual parts, even from GM. In some of the new cars, have you seen those wonderfully fit dash designs? At least 2 hours to get at the gauge cluster.
Two reasons. Cheaper for GM to manufacture and stock the entire gauge cluster (though more expensive for the car owner), and with the gauge cluster being all electronic, it is difficult to actually trace where the failure occurred in the electronic circuit. It may not be the gauge mechanism itself.
At the same time, something as critical as the gauge cluster should never fail. It should not be a wear and tear part.
After the treatment I’ve recieved from GM, I’m a disillusioned former GM fanboy that’s joined the Never Coming Back club.
Try THIS: ’07 Mazdaspeed3, 176 miles, the hi-beam indicator doesnt work. All indicators in the cluster are LEDs, soldered into the main circuit board along with all the guages. All functions work except for the high-beam indicator.
The repair? REPLACE THE CLUSTER ASSEMBLY.
Such is the price of progress and technology…
The only car I’ve ever had a speedometer failure on was an ’84 Cutlass, when it was 11 years old. This seems like a fluke, which happens to anything that is mass produced. However it sounds like GM is doing their level best to come out looking like a monkey attempting intercourse with a football…again.
We’ve had superb luck with Ford handling warranty issues. I’m taking my 11 year old Crown Vic to get a recall of the cruise control module taken care of, at no charge to me.
Read all about the settlement terms on http://www.gmspeedometerrecall.com. My Silverado VIN was not covered. Given the extent of the stepper motor problem, GM really should issue a recall and stop hiding behind their lawyers!
Good Day Terry,
I purchased my GMC Yukon with 4 miles on it. I maintained it and completed all the required maintance update at the required time. At 85,000 my coolant fluid began to vanish and I didn’t know what was going on. I took it in to the dealer and they informed that it was the head gasket and a tune of $2,000. Than I found out this was a known problem, so I asked the dealer who repaired the GMC and he asked me if I expected GMC to warranty the repair after 85,000 miles on it. I told him that no I did not expect them to warranty a part that should not have gone out in the first place. I had a 1997 Ford Explorer that I put 300,000 miles on it and the only part that went out on it was the brakes. I still have my GMC with 120,000 miles on it and the speedometer is now sitting at 50mph parked in the garage. This not an up keep problem, but more of a part gone bad and the company knowing that it’s going to go bad. I expected GMC to contact me and repair the bad head gasket along with the speedometer. I will be in the market for a new SUV again in 2011. GMC has lost me; it’s sad that my boy hood dreams of owning a GMC has been crushed by a product that is not dependable. My dad for 60 years owned GM vehicles and this year he switched to a Ford. One by one we are walking away, so there will be no need to warranty the units. They will not be on the market no matter what the Government tries to do
Dream Crushed
Just an update, I still ahve the truck and still have the problems
1. Speedo not fixed 250,000 km
2. GM not willing to acknowledge the crap they sell and do not stand behind.
3. Recieved a letter that it would be repaired under warrranty if you qualified within the mileage/date restrictions
I wonder in light of the recent history of the “Government Motors” if the Parts and Service VP’s were feeling thier collective necks before and during the bankruptcy and were not willing to put thier names on the call to not repair the speedo. Will they now do the right thing and do that which is the right thing. Wonder if Akerson will be advised of this or will he stick his head in the sand and let it die a slow death until there are no more customers? Come on Ed and Dan show us what the new GM is really about, or is it the same old GM where your words meant nothing.