This is my first General Motors pre-obituary. I’ve never penned one because I never liked having to face the reality that GM's killing itself one bone-headed decision at a time. But in carmaking as in any type of proto-warfare, turning a blind eye to stupid mistakes doesn’t make things any better. In the past few weeks, GM has made three product announcements that are so head-shakingly absurd they’ve earned themselves the starring role in a GM Deathwatch. Strike one…
GM has announced that it will be importing the Holden Ute– a modern day Chevrolet El Camino– to the U.S. The Ute’s based on the same Zeta platform underpinning the upcoming Pontiac G8, which has already been fully developed for the Australian market (where such vehicles are tremendously popular).
On the face of it, this is excellent news. Without even having driven the new Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8, you can count on it being an excellent sport-sedan. A modern rear wheel-drive platform, powerful V6 and V8 engines, up-to-date transmissions and strong prices all add up to a winning combination. A cute UTE would be icing on the proverbial cake.
Unfortunately, GM is going to sell this pickupish vehicle as a Pontiac. GM Car Czar Maximum Bob Lutz addressed this issue squarely between the [cross] eyes. “If we do the Ute…it could be the most enthusiast-positive decision to bring back the El Camino. But you look at their lineup and Chevy has too many vehicles.” Er, no. Chevy has too many poor selling vehicles. Although I can hear more “American Revolution” snickering, and I’m sure the Holden Ute holds plenty of hoon potential (light back ends making drifting even easier), the imported Aussie flatbed should be a Chevy. We build excitement. Pickup. No.
Strike two…
When the idea of importing a Holden sedan as a new Pontiac was first mooted, GM acknowledge the profit-busting exchange rate problems involved and said they’d be building the new G8 here if it sold well, as soon as possible. Back in February, MaxiBob told Automotive News that bringing over the G8 was a “transitional phase. It permitted us to get the car quickly and for a minimum of investment.” The unions (then in contract negotiations) breathed a sigh of relief as Lutz assured “It’s highly likely we will begin to produce [the Zeta-platformed Pontiacs] in North America.”
Fair dinkum. Let's get the first ever G8 into the American market ASAP. This week “probably will” became “probably won’t.” Gary Cowger, GM Vice-President of Global Manufacturing and Labor Relations, said there are “no plans at this point” to move production to North America. This despite GM’s excess plant capacity in the U.S. and Canada, which will build the Zeta-based Chevrolet Camaro.
Building the G8 in the States is the right thing to do. Holden Australia will have no problem recouping its manufacturing investment in sales to Australia, New Zealand, the Middle East, and China. The benefit to building Pontiac G8s in NA? GM doesn’t run the risk of slim profits or red ink losses as the American currency slides further down in value. Oh, and there’s the little matter of not pissing-off the UAW that GM just somehow persuaded to not revolt (yet).
But let’s give Mr. Lutz the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps when he was talking about adding U.S. production for “global rear-drive architecture” he really meant ANY rear-drive platform– not necessarily Zeta. Because hey, GM has announced that it has another, smaller rear-drive platform, this one called “Alpha" (rear wheel-drive from Z to A). Small, cheap, lightweight, rear wheel drive? It’s music to my ears.
Strike three… the music turns to noise.
The first two brands that receive Alpha cars are the worst two choices in GM’s stable. One is Cadillac, which we’ve already carpet-bombed for deciding to erode its image with an even cheaper car than the CTS. But the news of the week: the second company to get the Alpha platform would be… Chevrolet.
Last week Motor Trend “revealed” that Chevy, not Pontiac, would get an Alpha car. Since that’s totally schizophrenic (didn’t Lutz say Chevy “has too many vehicles”?), a GM fan fired off an email. Lutz allegedly responded that the Motor Trend claim was "Totally untrue. Don't believe everything you read on the internet! Valuable advice! Even in politics…or esecially! [sic]."
Note to Bob: Motor Trend blew the story. The internet is how you’re setting the record straight. Anyway, I’m not buying it. By thy duds they shall be know. Clearly, the Car Czar has no clear idea of which GM brand should get what and why. While rear-wheel drive is an enthusiast’s dream, unless GM sorts out its “global” production plans and domestic branding, great products will only go so far. In fact, not far enough.
Pontiac, Chevrolet…
Really, what’s the difference?
Cicero :
Pontiac, Chevrolet…
Really, what’s the difference?
Exactly!
Obviously nothing much has changed over at RenCen. Why does Rabid Rick keep allowing this loose cannon to sound off like he does. Barely a minute after he makes a statement another GM boffin contradicts him or he contradicts himself. I would love to be a fly on the wall when these things are being discussed. It gives me the general impression that GM has no idea what it should be doing. Just knowing about this on again-off again-on again sh*t from GM should make anyone nervous of buying cars from them. BTW, how many DW’s do you think will be published before GM meets it’s perfect storm?
I don’t know too much about the pick up market in the United States, so what I’m going to say is based on conjecture and perception but I’ve noticed one thing. It goes back to their branding.
GM have pick ups in the Chevrolet range, GMC range and Pontiac range. Now, there can’t be that much difference between all 3 brands (i.e one isn’t a “performance” pick up from a performance brand), so why do they waste time, energy and money selling the same picks up over 3 brands. Why not have just one brand concentrating on making pick ups? Surely that was the point of a brand? Pontiac for sports cars, Chevrolet for every day cars and GMC for heavy duty vehicles?
Don’t complicate your range. If you’re going to have multiple brands, manage them right…..
That picture of the Pontiac G8 makes it look to me like a Nissan Altima knockoff! Anyone else think so?
Don’t complicate your range. If you’re going to have multiple brands, manage them right…..
Katie, they cannot resist it as in you can’t really teach an old dog new tricks! GM really is an old dog! Look at the new CUV’s, they have spawned 3 brand versions so far and I believe a Chevy version is imminent. It’s a 1950’s business model and as long as they keep doing it they will continue to lose money. Looking at their dealer network maybe they have no choice. Either way it’s a problem of their own making.
One problem is the “volume image” differences between Pontiac and Chevy. Chevys are considered high-volume workaday vehicles and a small pickup would fit in well. Pontiacs are considered almost niche or even second cars (maybe it’s not good, but the way they are marketed), and niche cars aren’t expected to sell as well as working vehicles.
The nameplates chosen will set certain expectations for sales numbers, both inside GM and with the public.
Sorry I have to take offense at your statement jazbo, Pontiacs are second cars? I can see how the solstice would make a great second car, in fact, thats about the only time it would be good, due to the non-existent trunk, but would you really keep a “first ever” G6 in your garage for those sunny Sunday mornings?
If the Alpha Chevy is a replacement for the Impala, then it might be a very good thing. But I’d hope Pontiac gets one as a replacement for the Epsilon G6 soon. And I don’t think the Ute is a good idea right now, whatever division it goes to. I just can’t imagine that there’s much of a market for it right now outside of a handful of enthusiasts.
Speaking of pre-obits…
RIP
SVT Lightning
GMC Syclone
Ram SRT10
Subaru Baja
Dodge Dakota R/T
Chevy SSR
Stillborn
Ford Sport Trac SVT
Now GM is going to put a performance-oriented car-based el Camino on the market. Hmmm, good performance, useless utility, likely just as cheap to buy a Camaro or G8 (or the inevitable GTO or Trans Am variant).
Yeah, aces product planning guys! It’s not going to hunt no matter who’s badge is on the front!
Pontiac builds TRUCKS….oh what the heck..Lincoln built a TRUCK too…Poor Chevy ,poor Ford…It’s a shame it came down to this…Hey I wonder if Mercedes or BMW will build a truck, well that could happen because Mercedes has a wierd SUV or crossover that looks like it was grafted with Chrysler’s Pacifica. I saw another Merc SUV, it too looked liked it was sharing a JEEP platform..too ugly for my taste..Talk about Identity crisis!!
“GM have pick ups in the Chevrolet range, GMC range and Pontiac range. Now, there can’t be that much difference between all 3 brands (i.e one isn’t a “performance” pick up from a performance brand), so why do they waste time, energy and money selling the same picks up over 3 brands. Why not have just one brand concentrating on making pick ups? Surely that was the point of a brand? Pontiac for sports cars, Chevrolet for every day cars and GMC for heavy duty vehicles?”
They’ll have a Pontiac PU when they get the Holden ute. They also have a Cadillac PU.
The reason is that the General likes to give it’s dealers anything and everything to sell. A Buick dealer has no PUs to sell, because he’s not a Chevy dealer, so they have GMC make PUs. Even worse, Caddy wants a PU so they rebadge a Chevy PU and maybe give it some trim that doesn’t come on the Chevy, and brand it as a Caddy.
GM will never get it’s branding act together unless it does one of two things; 1) Just change all dealers to GM dealers, so they can all sell anything from GM. That way, individual makes can be different -Big, small, economical, luxury, sporty, ….etc., and no dealer needs to complain he doesnt have a vehicle in catagory X.
They’ve taken a step towards this by combining Buick/Pontiac/GMC – but the divisions aren’t differentitated enough.
2) Just tell some dealers they aren’t ever getting certain types of vehicles. Tell Caddy dealers for example that they just aren’t getting PUs, or economy cars. Tell the Buick dealer the same thing. Tell the Saturn dealers they aren’t getting sports cars. If they want to sell sports(y) cars, they should buy a Pontiac dealership.
You can’t make everything or nearly everything for every division and still have any brand identity.
Hey I wonder if Mercedes or BMW will build a truck, well that could happen because Mercedes has a wierd SUV or crossover that looks like it was grafted with Chrysler’s Pacifica. I saw another Merc SUV, it too looked liked it was sharing a JEEP platform..too ugly for my taste..Talk about Identity crisis!!
Carguy: Mercedes has been building trucks for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog
And the jeep-like SUV you saw with the Mercedes badge was likely a Gelandewagen (G-Wagon for short), and has been around for nearly 30 years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelandewagen
So my question about the Holden Ute/Pontiac El Camino is this:
Do the mullet wig and raccoon-tail antenna decoration come as standard equipment? Because if they don’t, they should.
This site seems to be more critical of Lutz than any other source. You’d think he might drop in from time to time and read some of the criticism. It is usually so logical and well-said that he’d be a fool not to listen to some of it. I guess that means he doesn’t read the site much. Nice editorial, Justin.
Holden will be to the UAW was Waterloo was to Napoleon.
Funny how in a world where green vehicles running on batteries are supposed to be the future, Aussies prefer rear wheel drive beasts just like Americans do. Ford does cars Down Under too, maybe they can bring some excitement over and call them Mercurys. I think we are witnessing the slow departure of car making by US automakers in favor of overseas production.
It’s very obvious that most of the posters are not in or everbeen associated with the automobile business. Does anybody really think that GM or Toyota for that matter is going to give out long term product plans. I have seen the GM product plans for the next several years and it makes great sense as it unfolds. But that will be a topic for death watch 1000!
cfisch: “It’s very obvious that most of the posters are not in or everbeen associated with the automobile business. Does anybody really think that GM or Toyota for that matter is going to give out long term product plans. I have seen the GM product plans for the next several years and it makes great sense as it unfolds. But that will be a topic for death watch 1000!”
I think Maximum Bob is reading this blog
1996MEdition?
Is he?
Bob, change your suits. You look like an accountant! Use some dark black suits. Something rather swish, like a Hugo Boss, perhaps? Look like someone in charge, not a jumped up little beancounter!
Oh and bring the Malibu to the UK….
Keep in mind that Holden (and Ford) are losing market share precipitously in Australia to Asian automakers. It may be cheaper overall for GM to keep their Ozzie lines running at capacity than start up production over here.
One could argue that GM’s problems stem in part from drifing away from their Sloan-era business model.
“GM really is an old dog! Look at the new CUV’s, they have spawned 3 brand versions so far and I believe a Chevy version is imminent. It’s a 1950’s business model and as long as they keep doing it they will continue to lose money.”
Well, having multiple brands is like GM in the 1950’s (or the 1920’s, for that matter), but back then no one had trouble distinguishing between a Chevy Bel Air and a Pontiac Star Chief, or between a Buick Special and an Oldsmobile 98. Egregious badge engineering is a more recent invention. Sometimes it’s even amusing: versions of Chevy’s small car included Nova, Omega, Ventura, Apollo — or N,O,V,A. If the Nova had been named the Novasc, then Saturn and Caddie could have joined the party.
GM’s squandering of industry leadership, corporate prestige and brand/buyer loyalty is an amazing story. And maybe unprecedented: how many other companies have driven a strong brand (Oldsmobile) from a million units per year to extinction in just a few years?
I bet Bubba Clinton is salivating on getting on new type El Camino, he is probably ordering the astroturf for the back as we speak and planning his road trip to visit all of the old flames in Arkansas.
CFisch: I am not in the autmobile business, but when is the great GM turnaround going to happen? I have been reading a long time of such reports, but every year they continue to lose market share, huge bucks and remain bloated.
I can’t friggen believe it! A year and half ago I wrote in my blog that GM and Ford have a salvation down-under. All they needed to do was NOT SCREW IT UP.
And I predicted that if they saddled them with the legacy name of American made POS “El Camino” and “Ranchero” then they would blow it.
So I was right. They took a good product, and slapped a name that brings back nothing but memories of 1970’s trailer-trash-livin’ made-in-Detroit garbage.
Pathetic. Perhaps Ford can do it right. They haven’t brought over their Aussie FPV utes yet.
“That picture of the Pontiac G8 makes it look to me like a Nissan Altima knockoff! Anyone else think so?”
That’s exactly what I thought it was until I moused over and read the caption.
@yankinwaoz:
Well, they are *not* calling it th El Camino. It’s going to be a Pontiac, called the G8 ST.
The G8 ST what? who thinks up these names or letters and numbers since they ditched the names that had relevance.
Someone metioned the Alpha going in a future Impala. Wouldn’t that be too small since the Alpha is smaller then the Zeta which is close to the size of the current Impala.
Maybe each division pulls a platform name out of a hat and that is how they decide who gets what, or maybe a dart board.
GM is like the dutch boy with his finger stuck in the dike. Only GM does not have enough fingers to fill all of the holes.
Last week when Roger Smith died I tried to defend him a little saying he actually did the best he could do considering GMs horrid internal culture.
Whenever a company get so big that the different division have enough power to trump the desires of upper managenet the game is over!
This has been the case with GM for god know how long. The top exec can’t implement a successful strategy without each individual division crying foul when they are not the first to get the new products. I am sure there is a great deal of politics going on for Pontiac to get the El Camino. The Pontiac dealers do not care what the hell this thing is as long as it is something they can sell. Just like Chevy dealers must have their version of the Lambda. It seems like during the 1980s GM decided to garranty that every divison would have a version of just about every GM product to sell.
I think R. Smith created Saturns as an attempt to break free of the entrenched GM culture. Saturn was an attempt allow GM to create and build cars that were not total dependent on GM than current suppliers of obsolete parts and the UAW piss-poor labor practices. To bad other forces in GM had enough power to beat Saturn down and allow the status-quo to continue. See in comapny like GM Saturn was more of a threat to internal fiefdoms than the real competition.
During the 1980s we saw the same thing with Ford trying to introduce the Merkur line in the USA. European Fords were seen as a threat to those in charge of Ford’s domestic production. Think about it, if Merkur and Saturn had been successful it would has been clear that the “locals” did not know what they were doing. Heads would have rolled.
Too bad!
There have been several attempts at bringing Australian models to the US. So far every one has been a dud. The ones I can recall include the Mitsubishi Diamante wagon, Mercury Capri (1990s version) and the Pontiac GTO’s Second Life version. Not a single one of these efforts has been anything one could call a sales success.
I don’t see any reason why GM’s latest efforts to bring it’s Australian products to the US will be any different.
I didn’t realize Alpha was going to be smaller, so I guess that doesn’t make sense for a new Impala after all. But then I can’t imagine a Chevy Alpha that would make any sense. Is it going to be another sports car, to slot below the Camaro and Corvette? Sadly, that wouldn’t surprise me.
Wait a sec…my head hurts…I’m confused.
First off, selling the Ute as a Pontiac isn’t right. Nothing too complex about that.
I thought that the whole purpose of making all these platforms and parts global was so you could more easily adjust when and where and how much production could be done at each plant.
As for Holden Australia, well…they’ve been getting beat down by Toyota in a bad way. Holden has sold 136,216 cars thus far. By comparison, the Japanese giant has sold 216,034! And it seems that every month, I hear about how Holden, Ford, Toyota and Mitsu keep suggesting that Australia is too small a market to build vehicles especially for it, and that production may move elsewhere. I’m not sure, but it seems like the Aussies leaned on GM a bit.
Thirdly, the Alpha platform should be going to Pontiac…somehow. The next G6, with sedan, coupe and convertible body styles would be my choice. Base 4-cylinder, with optional 3.6L V-6 and…can they fit a V-8 in there? A line-up of Solstice (with coupe), G6 and G8 would fit the new, lower-volume higher-profit all-rear-drive strategy I thought Pontiac was to follow.
Cadillac should get Alpha for the BLS, so they can finally move the CTS up where it belongs closer to $40K. “5-Series for 3-Series price” isn’t needed here, BUT…it definitely won’t work in Europe. They aren’t into the supersizing, Big Gulping culture as much as we are. I’ve always found that reasoning silly.
To play devil’s advocate, I can see a couple of methods behind GM’s madness:
1. The complete and utter failure of the SSR probably has product planners frightened that a similar fate would await another Chevy-badged sport truck.
2. The domestic brands probably perceive being unable to win on the subject of reviving classic nameplates. When they do it (i.e. GTO), they’re lambasted for not doing the original model justice, and when they don’t (i.e. G8 ST), they’re criticized for squandering potential brand equity.
BUT.
The SSR flopped primarily because it was ridiculously priced. Right on top of the Corvette, IIRC. If the ‘Ute’s pricing remains in the same $30K ballpark as its G8 progenitor, I can’t imagine it would have such a hard time finding buyers.
Also, unlike the Monaro nee GTO, the ‘Ute isn’t too hard to link visually to prior El Caminos(especially the ’80s ones with custom Monte Carlo SS front clips). The risk of a crippling credibility gap seems much lower than with the GTO.
Chevrolet and Cadillac are the only brands GM needs and can afford in the US. The rest are just noise.
The Commodore cannot be assembled as it is now anywhere else but Australia. Holden operates independent of GM in the US and has their own manufacturing methods and suppliers from that region.
Another factor not reported in this piece – Holden really needs this export deal. The new Commodore was engineered with US export in mind from the get-go. Holden is facing decreased sales of it’s fullsize car line at home and is becoming more and more dependent on their export business to sustain the company. The maximum amount of G8s they can supply is 50,000 and at that number their line runs at capacity. Without it Holden will lose money. That’s probably the real reason why the car and it’s Ute and Sportwagon variants are coming here. In fact the only reason the wagon exists at all in Australia was because they felt they could count on US export to make a good business case for it.
Oshawa is being retooled to build a variant of Holden’s chassis but not the exact same thing. The structure is changed enough from the Commodore/G8 for the Camaro that it’s unique to North America. The Commodore/G8 could not be built on the same line unless the car was completely redesigned. Barring a radical dip in the dollar that will not happen until 2012.
As for the Ute, it’s not the SSR.
The comparison is not only silly, it’s also stupid. The SSR was an expensive toy made out of the TrailBlazer aimed at the same audience that bought the Plymouth Prowler and retro Ford Thunderbird. GM made it in response to the concept. What sank it more than anything else was the price – it cost as much as a Corvette. It’s underpinnings didn’t make it a nice cruiser or a thrilling performer either.
The Ute as the Pontiac G8 ST does not have any of these issues.
It is a muscle car no different from the G8 sedan underneath, mechanically, B-pillar forward or inside. It’s not priced like a Corvette. It’s not based on a dismal SUV like the TrailBlazer. It’s reported it will come here in V8, fully-optioned trim at only $31,000. That’s cheaper than the loaded G8 GT sedan and very reasonable for what other V8 muscle cars like a well-equipped Mustang GT or Charger R/T go for.
The Ute is going to be sold by Pontiac because Pontiac is already selling the other two variants of this car. The Pontiac parts are already in production and ready to be put on each variant of the Commodore as they roll down Holden’s line.
Creating new parts for Chevrolet or any other brand would delay the release by a year or more and by then the window would be pretty much closed. It would also be obvious to most people that the G8 sedan and the Ute at another showroom would be very similar if not the same cars, the same rebadge insanity GM is constantly bashed for on this site. It would be as bad as selling Opels through Chevrolet and Saturn instead of just Saturn. Why have Saturn then if they can’t sell a unique product by themselves?
GM also wanted to avoid a wave of negative, purist reaction from sinking the Ute like it did the Monaro by not affixing the El Camino name to it.
The Ute is a great car. It’s not only a terrific performer and comfortable cruiser but it will haul as much in it’s tray as what most people use the beds on their fullsize trucks for. And it will do it without all the drawbacks of truck like abysmal fuel consumption, tippy-handling, poor acceleration, etc.
You can also be assured it will be one of the biggest head-turners of the year once it hits our streets. The styling alone should sell quite a few of them.
If GM markets the Ute not only for it’s tire-shredding performance but also as a credible car-based alternative to a truck much like Subaru markets their Legacy Outback wagon they may be on to something.
You can check out the Ute’s website and see what it’s all about.
http://www.evolutionendshere.com.au/
You can also see the Commodore Sportwagon which Pontiac will be selling as the G8 wagon as well.
http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/calendar/
Holden will be splitting their capacity of 50,000 cars up between the the G8 sedan, G8 ST and G8 Sportwagon models. Expect the majority to be sedans and numbers on the other two will be adjusted based on demand.
so, the biggest car company in the world has been left now only with 2 of her own platforms! well done, idlers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! best regards from Vauxhall, and `tales from the crypt`.
I cannot agree with Justin Berkowitz when he says.
The first two brands that receive Alpha cars are the worst two choices in GM’s stable. One is Cadillac, which we’ve already carpet-bombed for deciding to erode its image with an even cheaper car than the CTS. But the news of the week: the second company to get the Alpha platform would be… Chevrolet.
Cadillac is supposed to be a global brand and from what I have heard the CTS is only slightly smaller than the BMW 5-Series. In most of the world the 5-Series is considered a big car. BMW sells way more 3-Series than 5-Series, therefore to be a serious player Cadillac needs a 3-Series sized car.
I think that even in the US the Cadillac brand will not be damaged by a car that is the same size as the 3-Series.
@cthill
BMW 5-Series: 191.1 inches long
Cadillac CTS: 191.6 inches long
BMW 3-Series: 178.2 inches long
That’s right. The new CTS is juuuuust a little bit bigger than a 5-Series, and more than a whole foot longer than its supposed rival, which makes no sense whatsoever.
"Rival" "Competition" is really subjective in the end. I can choose to shop between the 528i the CTS or the Rolls Phantom. I'm not bound by GM's or any else's expectations or conclusions. A bigger car than the 3-series with similar luxury and price would be a good sell to me. Hell, 3-series size and price is marketable, Cadillac can even offer a smaller car at the same price as the CTS or higher simultaneously. Silly, dysfunctional and ridiculous perceptions of such moves, seem to often result in getting shun and shamed for having such opinions. What ever. I wish many people would wakeup, stop their dysfunctional attachment to cars as determinative of hierarchy or value. Stop shaming, criticizing and judging themselves and others. There is no real hierarchy or defective behavior on anyones part. Prices do not determine product, or competence. Prices are human set, the products do not price themselves. Each and everyone is individually free to come to their own conclusion. I can cross shop a Civic Si with a Phantom, and I am free to not feel bad about it. If I like changing gears in the Civic as much as riding in the Phantom, than perhaps the Civic is worth $350k to me or vise versa $16k for the Phantom, or any other amount. My life is my own, I'm a independent co-creator of my future, and owner of my choices. Other behaviors do not affect my life.
As for the Ute, it’s not the SSR. The comparison is not only silly, it’s also stupid.
It’s not at all silly or stupid to draw the comparison. It’s quite appropriate to wonder whether there will be much demand in the US for a car with a truck bed.
Aussies love their utes. But Americans haven’t bought any of these in quite awhile, so it’s unclear whether they’ll buy them now. Particularly if fuel prices stay this high, I have my doubts that this will sell in any reasonable quantities. Badging it as a Pontiac probably won’t help matters, either.
KatiePuckrik,
I think he is disguised as “cfisch” ;-)
If the G8 ST comes with a full 6′ box, it will prove far more useful than heavier, thirstier stuff like Sport Trac, Ridgeline, and SuperCrew that have minimal cargo space. 2 1/2 tons curb weight and a 4 1/2 –5′ box? Ridiculous!
But what about the loss of ground clearance? In Omaha, “We don’t need no stinkin’ ground clearance any more,” thanks to climate shift, global warming, or whatever the media calls it today. Most winter precip is sleet and freezing rain. Low center of gravity beats the macho look, here.
Just don’t fill up the fender wells with those ridiculous huge wheels that dumb-ass kids of all ages slobber over; or if you can’t resist that crap in warm weather, switch to smaller, more sensible 15″ or 16″ shoes for winter. The slush needs room for outflow.
Who cares what’s on the hood? The profit from a hot product all goes to the same place. The only GM brand that needs a clear identity IMO is Caddy. The rest is a wash. Basing future products on some marketing departments silly slogan would be stupid.
As long as these are gonna be really good cars that we’re talking about, I don’t understand how this anything to do with a “Deathwatch”. I think the fact that this is edition #156 is funny and ironic.
Does GM really believe somebody wants to buy a new el Camino whatever you call it? Wow, just when you think they can’t get any stupider they go and top themselves. Not to mention the inherently dull and clunky style of Aussie vehicles anyway. Look at the Holden web site – something about them just doesn’t look right – they’ll never sell here no matter whose nameplate you put on them.
Who cares what’s on the hood? The profit from a hot product all goes to the same place.
As do the losses.
Think GTO, which certainly must have been a money loser. (Even the modest sales projections were missed.)
I seriously doubt that this will be a hot product. I could see cultivating it so that it eventually becomes a reasonably successful, bread-and-butter vehicle for an unserved niche. But with the typical Detroit mentality behind it, I doubt that they have the patience to do anything as crazy as develop a coherent brand with products to match…
The only GM brand that needs a clear identity IMO is Caddy.
Brands matter! Brand is the reason that you pay more for a bag of Green Giant frozen vegetables than the Plain Wrap sitting alongside it, or why you might buy a cup from Starbucks instead of Bob’s Coffeehouse and Bait Shop down the road.
A great product can define or transcend brand, but that is rare, and it requires a great product. I like the Holdens myself, but they are good vehicles, not fantastic, stupendous ones. Like the GTO, this one will be crippled by its brand, not helped by it.
Dear S makes an excellent point.
Who is expected to buy the El G8 at 31k? People in this range can cross shop anything. It’s not even a percieved necessity at that price point because you can get a real truck for less. And let’s be realistic, the real trucks of today ride nicely.
I don’t remember who bought the El Camino last time around. What was the allure? Aside from it being different looking, I don’t get it. Is it a Nascar thing? (I don’t get that either. It’s not stock cars so it might as well be real race cars.)
And Omaha may get 5 feet of snow next week for all anyone knows. If you are betting on last year’s weather repeating, you are making a suckers bet with or without “climate change”.
I had a lot of Americans come to my wedding in NZ, they loved MY brothers straight six Ford Falcon and a friends Holden commodore V8 Utes.
GM should dump the NA biz model they have; Chevrolet for cheaper cars; Aveo(if you must), Cobalt/HHR, Malibu, Lucerne, Corvette & G8 which should be the Impala.
Cadillac if you want to go ritzy – spend some dosh on the CTS & the STS and send them after the Germans & Lexus, and trucks, SUVs = GMC
This model works for Toyota
I disagree on brands – the most important thing is product – I would predict a giant leap for Chevy if the Camry become one overnight
By selling the Ute as a Pontiac and not an El Camino, GM expands the target audience beyond mullet-headed meth dealers :).
The El Camino and Ranchero were brought out at a time when pickup trucks, generally speaking, were slow, underpowered, stodgy, and uncomfortable. They brought car-like power and acceleration, as well as comfortable amenities like AC, radios, etc, while still having the ability to haul light loads. Such was the state of the motor vehicle market circa 1957 (or was it 58?) when the Ranchero was brought out (the El Camino came along in 59 as a response to the Ranchero, IIRC. Not only copying the style but also the Spanish-sounding name.)
Now fast forward 50 years: Trucks are no longer stodgy, uncomfortable or underpowered. In fact, now that cars have primarily gone to FWD platforms with transverse engines (with a few notable exceptions) trucks are the last place you can get big honkin’ V-8’s in a RWD platform. And as has been pointed out here before, the interior of many modern “dirt haulers” is more plush than a whore house. Adjustable seats, leather, velour, multi-speaker surround sound systems, climate control, power everything, etc etc seem to be the rule rather than the exception.
Furthermore, car-based trucks didn’t just disappear with the El Camino in the mid 80’s. Dodge had the Rampage, VW had the Rabbit Pickup, more recently Subaru had the Baja, and all of them bombed miserably in the sales department because the raison d’etre for the car-based pickup has essentially disappeared, and along with it the potential customers.
This is quite reminiscent of the Dodge Challenger soon-to-be fiasco.
Message to GM: The 70’s are over. Deal with it.
Martin, I can confirm that pickup trucks are still generally slow, underpowered, stodgy, and uncomfortable compared to today’s cars.
I recently test drove a new Ford F-150, Dodge Ram and the new GMC Sierra Denali with 403hp and all are quite awful on the street. Everything you said about trucks still applies to them. The performance and comfort of every truck on the market still falls far short of modern cars.
I owned 1996 Chevrolet K1500 4×4 in the Midwest and only used it for errands because of how it drove. Now that I live in Phoenix and have driven the latest batch I will not own another one. I have no idea how people daily drive these things with their taxed acceleration, floppy handling or fit them in small garages and tight parking spaces.
Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the Ute is a far more practical choice for most people as a daily driver, quarter-mile burner, twisty attacker and hauler than the fullsize trucks on the market.
I drove the old VY SS model when I was in Sydney back in 2004 and it was an utterly fantastic car. Actually better than the Monaro that GM sold here. Like the Monaro this is an excellent car whether it catches on in the US or not. Holden makes great products that eclipse most of the transportation choices people make in this country.
Count me in the niche group, but I would buy a Ute here as a Pontiac or Chevrolet. GM doesn’t expect to move more than 3,000 to 5,000 of them and I’m sure that can be accomplished here in the Southwest alone where these types of cars remain popular despite their age.
Just because Mr. Berkovitz or Motor Trend say so, doesn’t make it the truth.
yankinwaoz condemns GM for getting it wrong and congratulates himself for being right all along, but not a single ute has landed yet on these shores.
It makes sense to me that if you got the product in one part of the world, try it out in another. If it doesn’t fly, try something else. Don’t knock ’em for taking business risks. The risk-adverse idiots in GM’s past ain’t there no more.
oboylepr is frustrated by contradictory news from the RenCen about production plans. I would bet its hard to make plans when 35mpg cafe legislation is bouncing around the House and Senate.
Sure the new Lambda CUVs are clothed by 3 and possibly 4 brands, but they are really different from one another, not like the cookie cutter GM of the 80s, and most of what I see coming out recently is pretty fucused.
If thats a stale business model from the 50s, then Toyota, Honda, Nissan/Renault, PSA, Volkswagen, Fiat, and Ford must be just as misguided as GM.
I do like the idea of turning all GM’s branded dealers into GM dealers. Course, that would cause litigation for years to come. But Hey, isn’t that happening to some extent with the new GMC, Pontiac, Buick dealer consolidation. Maybe we won’t have to suffer from pontiac minivans, econoboxes or SUVs anymore. Maybe a hot, rear drive, 2-seater with an open bed in the back could be my next car!
KatiePuckrik has the best advice! Bob, if you’re listening, get some better suits!
I am an ex GM dealer 33 years. JT Horner is dead on. GM is a 2 brand company , but there is no way to get there. All the rest of this speculation does not matter, too many brands to feed and no way to shut any down. There dead meat. thanks
It makes sense to me that if you got the product in one part of the world, try it out in another.
I would agree with that. However, it’s fair to challenge the brand and the price point.
The GTO was a flop because it was possible to buy a pony car from Ford for less money, and because the styling betrayed the name. I suspect that most customers who would be drawn to a “GTO” because of the brand legacy of the GTO would not have seen any lineage between a tarted up Monaro and the 60’s classic. It needed a lower price, a different name and some different styling cues. (Hell, why even change it? I could be alone, but I thought that the Monaro was a pretty handsome design that could work in the US.)
Pontiac has not done well as a purveyor of trucks and its brand is not oriented toward trucks, so why start now? Before anyone rushes in to remind me that it is built on a car platform, I already know this, but the question becomes whether the casual customer will know or will bother finding out.
Personally, I would have badged it as a Chevy, with a plan to eventually offer 4-, 6- and specially-badged 8-cylinder versions of it. And I would be patient with it — it could take years to prove itself. And I would accept the very real possibility that it could flop, no matter what you do with it, as it is unclear whether or not there is a market for it.
Martin, I can confirm that pickup trucks are still generally slow, underpowered, stodgy, and uncomfortable compared to today’s cars.
Which is a little like saying that a tomato is not nearly as sweet as an apple. It’s true, but it’s also irrelevant. Because trucks today are fast enough, powerful enough, and comfortable enough that combined with the additional capabilities that a truck brings, it’s not nearly the bad compromise that it was back in the 50’s.
If the market doesn’t have enough buyers to bring back the station wagaon then I don’t see how there are enough buyers to bring back the El Camino.
Personally I wish both configuration were readily available, but I seem to be in a very small minority of the market.