The LA Times reports a growing rift between supporters of plug-in gas – electric hybrids and fuel cell fans. In fact, it looks like we're headed for pistols at dawn. "Proponents of the two most hyped technologies… are vying for publicity, manufacturer acceptance, favorable regulation and, especially, funding for research and investment in infrastructure and marketing. The battle has been simmering for several years, but with the technologies coming tantalizingly close to commercial reality, the stakes are higher than ever.' And from the Why Can't We Be Friends Department: "'It's just unfortunate that there has to be so much infighting,' said Patricia Monahan of the clean vehicles program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, which calls itself 'agnostic' on which technology holds more promise. 'Sometimes it seems almost personal.'" Seriously. Plug-in hybridistas have taken to calling their rival's technology "fool cells;" claiming the hydrogen production process makes the propulsion system inherently inefficient. Hydrogen hypers counter that batteries can't offer sufficient range, and they get their power from electricity plants that burn fossil fuel. So there, nuh.
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Both sides make a point. I think the use of batteries is AWFUL for the environment!!! Those car batteries will probably last 5 years at best, then all those environmentalists are going to dump them into the landfill, grand. Further a valid point – they charge up from fossil fuel generators. Doesn’t mean that solar cells couldn’t be set up or wind generators though. Which brings me to my next point – hydrogen stations are not efficent at all, HOWEVER, at least they are being demonstrated using solar power, so no matter how inefficent the whole process is, there’s no harm in it since its solar powered!
It’ll be interesting to see how things turn out over the next 10-20 years. Personally, I am avoiding buying a hybrid because of the battery issue. I think in the long run hydrogen will be here to stay, and batteries will provide the mean time solution.
I really get tired of hearing the batteries-into-the-landfill foolishness. The batteries in hybrids are designed and intended to be recycled. The heavy metals are very expensive, and nobody intends to throw them out. Probably will work sort of like printer-ink cartridges do, with the case being reused as well.
Battery manufacturer’s either have their own recycling program or are involved in an existing program that recycles batteries. They DON’T end up in landfills. Any batteries that end up in a landfill are because of end-user negligence.
I agree the battery in the landfill is not reality. Professionals and home mechanics return batteries where,with few exceptions they are properly handled.
I see the plug in as an early technology and the fuel cell as a later one. Both are going to require serious electrical generation changes if we are to use them widely.
At this time solar and wind cannot generate enough power. The power density is not there now or in the near future. The land use would create a whole new uprising from a different group of enviromentalists. Like it or not we need nuclear and clean coal with CO2 capture. These solve other geopolitical issues as well.
It is really not a car issue. Both technologies are well on their way. It is a fueling infrastructure issue.
According to this faq:
http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html#battery
on hybridcars.com Toyota puts a phone number on each battery pack and pays a $200 bounty to help make sure that they do get recycled.
The other day I talked with some Toyota people.
They still seem to believe in the feasibility of fuel cells as a good alternative to large batteries in electric vehicles.
Of course, car companies are not responsible for the fuel supply.
In particular, electricity as an energy source will be far cheaper than hydrogen. And therefore, fuel cells would have to be far cheaper than large batteries to be competitive.
I agree the battery in the landfill is not reality. Professionals and home mechanics return batteries where,with few exceptions they are properly handled.
But think about home mechanics and motor oil….
John
And therefore, fuel cells would have to be far cheaper than large batteries to be competitive.
Exactly! Last I checked fuel cell cars went for ~$1 million a piece.
Sure, they just have to get them into mass production…
Hydrogen hypers counter that batteries can’t offer sufficient range, and they get their power from electricity plants that burn fossil fuel.
And where does the hydrogen come from? It comes from the hydrogen tree!
Great quote:
“I know nothing about cars,” said Robert Koch, a partner there. But, he said, he has experience in battery technology, which he thinks is an essential component of future vehicles.
“Once you have the battery and the propulsion system, building a car is not that complicated,” Mr. Koch said.
-NY Times (may require registration)
http://tinyurl.com/37zjq4