Buick's communication manager, Dave Darovitz, takes exception with TTAC's blog about the Enclave's sucky sales. We received the following message from Mr. D.:
Just so our buddy Frank has the correct information – that is your outlet claims to be about the "truth" – let me give you and Frankie a dose of it. The Enclave IS the hottest selling crossover in the industry. We've sold more Buick Enclaves in half a year of production than Mazda CX-9 sold in one full year. And, 90 percent of our Enclave sales are of the uplevel CXL model – the highest contented, richest model we offer. Nearly half of our Enclave customers are new to GM, and we've had a waiting list of paid customers since we started producing the crossover. Finally, customer and dealer demand for this standout Buick far exceeds what the plant can physically produce. So, if this "sucks", what's Frank's definition of success?
Well Davie, I'd like to know how you define "hottest selling." Even the Enclave's corporate-cousin Acadia far outsells it month after month, as do the Lexus RX and any number of other CUVs. The CX-9 hasn't been on the market for "one full year" — it went on sale in February. And with all the awards the CX-9 has gotten over the Enclave, they're getting a lot of free press which will drive sales up. Incidentally, you only sold about 4K more Enclaves than Mazda sold CX-9s. Can you sustain this, or will Enclave be like other GM models that tank once you satisfy the initial demand?
So what if the CXL model is the best-selling trim level? I don't know anyone who tracks sales by trim level. It's good you can pull some new buyers from outside GM, as Buick's traditional customer base is dying off with alarming regularity. How long do you think your "paid customers" will wait when they see other comparable vehicles readily available?
Finally, if demand is that high, why aren't you diverting production at this overtaxed plant (where they recently shut down the third shift) from the Outlook (which is busy gathering snow on dealer lots) to the Enclave and 1) bolster dealer morale and let them average more than five sales per month, 2) satisfy all these customers who are lined up money in hand, 3) help Saturn deal with their almost 100-day supply of Outlook and 4) drive up Buick's overall sales numbers and bottom line (which is never a bad thing)?
My definition of success? A car that sells well without artificially manipulating supply against demand and keeps on selling well even after the initial demand has been satisfied. So far Enclave has yet to satisfy either of these expectations.
Your serve.
customer and dealer demand for this standout Buick far exceeds what the plant can physically produce.
Right, just like the hot-selling Pontiac Solstice.
Not the use of “hottest” selling (which can mean anything), and not “best” or “top” selling. Hottest could be interpreted to mean year over year, and since the previous year’s sales were zero…
Methinks “hottest selling” = average # days the cars sit on the lot, Given the Enclave’s limited production, this number doesn’t mean a whole lot.
The local one-price dealer has just two on the lot, but they’re going for about invoice. If the Enclave were truly in demand, they would be asking for more $$$. By comparison, they’re asking $1200-$2000 over invoice for the Highlander Hybrid.
There was an article on this topic in the Washington Post some time back. GM is trying to avoid the blunder it often made in the past of overproducing a model that was in demand and “dumping” large numbers of the model on dealer lots (which is perhaps what happened with the Outlook). They’re also trying to make more profit on each car by keeping demand high, which is something Toyota and Honda have often done on their hot-selling vehicles. However, I can see both sides of the argument; GM needs vehicle sales volume more than anything else right now, and keeping production of the most in-demand model of the trio low seems like a bit of an odd decision.
I live in California and don’t believe I’ve seen a Buick Enclave on the street, period. It’s possible this has something to do with a lack of Buick dealers, or that I don’t live near a Leisure World.
I did spot a Saturn Sky yesterday; that one seems pretty rare.
Wagoner, Lutz and company appear desperate to ensure the illusion of a successful GM turnaround. The substance will arise when the cars are superior.
Hottest selling just means that the only way Enclaves are moving off the lot is due to stealing. It will be interesting to see how many of these thieves bring the Enclave back when they realize what they have…
GM didn’t report any sales of the Enclave for January and February, so the 10 month comparison between the Enclave and the CX-9 is 29,286 to 25,566 units. In December, Buick booked 4,726 units whereas Mazda sold 3,066 CX-9s.
HOWEVER, Buick isn’t competing with Mazda (although its worth noting that Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander sales trashed both the Enclave and CX-7), its supposed to be the new Lexus. Lexus sold 103,340 RX350/400hs in 2007 including 11,385 in December. This is a decrease of 4.9 percent from MY2006 sales, but Buick’s sales of the Enclave still SUCK in comparison
I believe the Enclave sells at a slower rate month-to-month than the Acura MDX too.
Most of my dealerships are fighting tooth and nail to get Enclaves right now. I wont go into detail on current wait times and such as I’m not sure its my place to do so. That, and I kinda like my job. I find it odd that you go back and bring up the CX-9 (which my parents own and love, one of the first purchased in the state) winning awards, yet everytime a vehicle wins an award, this is the first site to say its simply advertising. So, either the Buick sucks, or they don’t pay enough advertising to win awards. You can’t have it both ways.
Just because TTAC doesn’t like a car doesn’t mean a good chunk of the population doesn’t.
Virtual Insanity :
Most of my dealerships are fighting tooth and nail to get Enclaves right now.
How great is that? Does the short supply make the Enclave hot or GM not?
I find it odd that you go back and bring up the CX-9 (which my parents own and love, one of the first purchased in the state) winning awards, yet everytime a vehicle wins an award, this is the first site to say its simply advertising.
You got that right. But Frank was pointing out that the CX-9 is benefiting from the nods, not that they were “good” in and of themselves.
Just because TTAC doesn’t like a car doesn’t mean a good chunk of the population doesn’t.
Correct. But I think you’d benefit from a quick re-read of our TWO Enclave reviews.
“Highest Trim Level” == most profitable sale, right? Good for Buick then.
I was next to an Enclave in traffic the other day. Those things are huge – minivan sized.
“We’ve sold more Buick Enclaves in half a year of production than Mazda CX-9 sold in one full year”
How long has Buick been in direct competition with Mazda?
I think Frank Williams and TTAC just got OWNED by Mr. Darovitz. As I was reading the original article yesterday, I was somewhat shocked by what seemed to be a complete contradiction of every other story I have read regarding Enclave sales. I am not a huge Buick fan but I do like the Enclave, enough to consider replacing my Japanese SUV with one within the next year. I have driven it, and it is very well done, good enough to shrug off Buick’s old timer image IMO.
It is a mystery why GM hasnt diverted some production, but it is just that much better for Enclave owners. Though the author brings up some interesting points, from my perspective, this response to Mr. Darovitz looks an awful lot like defensive (foot in mouth) backpedaling.
Come on GM, why aren’t you telling us the whole story? If the Enclave REALLY IS that hot, then WHY isn’t GM increasing production? And GM better not dare say the plant is running at full capacity and that they can’t change the production mix of models at the plant currently.
Enclave. The name says it all. It is limited in growth because it is surrounded on every side by another larger entity. Lincoln ought to bring back the Continental.
I find Buick’s Dave Darovitz’s remarks offensive in the extreme. First of all, he has the gall to call Frank Williams “Frankie”, and then, without the benefit of even a limited Google search, pronounces “the Enclave IS the hottest selling crossover in the industry”.
Pray tell, Davie, (you don’t mind me calling you that, do you? Because some people object. No?**) OK then, Davie Baby, what industry is it in which the Enclave is the hottest selling crossover? Because it isn’t the automotive industry, as a glance at Forbes.com sales figures would tell you. Perhaps it’s the tarted-up farm tractor industry. No, maybe not — too wide a sector.
BTW, it was Davie Baby, not Frank, who brought up the Mazda CX-9 as a competitor.
Just guessing, but I think the Enclave may be the hottest selling crossover in the Incredibly Corpulent Overweight with Too many Doo-Dads Category. Is that a limiting enough category in which to lead sales?
It’ll do.
** With thanks to John Cleese and Monty Python.
gamper:
In the big scheme of things, 26,286 Enclaves sold in 2007 isn’t anything to write home about. As for low production: what’s better for Enclave owners? having to wait to get one? The dealers suffer because they don’t have vehicles to sell.
The local one-price dealer also sells Acadias for invoice +/- a few hundred bucks, just like the Enclave, not exactly a sign of high demand. Contrast that with the Highlander Hybrids that they can sell for more.
Gamper,
The reason you are reading positive articles about Enclave sales is due to the success and hardwork of their PR people. There are only a few real automotive journalists in the world. Most of them are regular reporters whose stories are practically written by corporate PR marketing and PR types.
If these hacks are above average they might bother to check the facts on a claim like Buick outselling Mazda. Very few have the sense or integrity to question if that means anything at all.
They get paid to produce stories, and if they can’t get return calls from the corporate spokespeople they would actually have to work harder.
It is clear from reading TTAC that there are two kinds of GM cars – those in demand because they are not making enough, and those filling lots. This might be a sign of a turn around if the ones they can’t make enough of were being produced in any real numbers.
The evidence actually suggests that there if GM can make a decent car, and not overproduce it, they can keep up demand. Unfortunately, they would need dozens of more models (and not just badge engineered ones) to come out of their slump.
A question for everyone would be to look at the data and see if badge engineering is helping or hurting. How many badges is too many?
Actually Dave Darovitz response is quite comical if you re-read it. This guy simply picks out one out of god knows how many different CUVs that are on the market claims that the Enclave is successful because it is out selling an over-priced MAzda that is a questionable fit for the brand as it is. Big Efen Deal!
Lets have a run down of all the players in the large CUV segment:
Arcadia/ Enclave/ Outlook
Edge/ MKX
Morano
Higlander/ RX350
FX35/45
Pilot/ MDX
CX9
Tribeca
XC90
TaurusX
Outlander
XL7
Other SUV Competitiors:
Toureg
Grand Cherokee
Explorer/ Mountainer
Trailblazer/ Envoy
Forerunner
Pathfinder
Mini-Van Competition:
Odyessy
Seinna
Quest
Grand Caravan/ Town& Country
MPV
WOW, all of the above can seat 7, the majority are available with powerful v6 engines, and just about all can be equiped with AWD. While some may appear to be different all can accomplish the same mission(s). All can be equiped and optioned out to compete in the $30,000+ category.
If GM reall thinks it has something “hot” on its hands with the Enclave they are the dumbest fools in the world. I have named at least 27 different models that are competeting for the CUV $$$s. This segment is over-saturated and there are MORE players on the way! Toyota has just drop a new much-improved Highlander to replace an already super successful one. Honda is also about to debute a new Pilot that will be replacings another very successful product.
IF GM had any bit of sense they would understand that the Lamdba CUVs window of opportunity was 2007. Last year and right now is the time to push market these things while the competition is in the down-cycle. I beat there are a few Toyota dealers that are willing to buy out an Enclave down payment to steal yet another GM sale!
I think a couple of things might be noted here.
1. IIRC, the 1st Enclaves were not even delivered until May. Acadia has been being delivered considerably longer and remains a couple of thousand less for “comparable” trim.
2. I love the comparisons to Highlander Hybrid. It is a Toyota after all with a well-earned good rep. The Highlander Hybrid is grossly overpriced and difficult to find. Actual gasoline Highlanders are not setting sales records.
3. Believe it or not cars like the Enclave do fill a niche. Just because a number or you find it bloated or just plain silly does not mean there is no legitimate demand for a large people of cargo carrier. Most of these buyers would no sooner be caught in a mini-van than YOU would.
4. Take the time to read actual customer reviews in Edmunds. Overwhelmingly positive.
I am not sure why TTAC is getting their undies in a bunch over this. Detroit (well, GM and the new Ram) are showing that they can build vehicles that are equal or better to the quality of imports. With the Enclave, we have a visually stunning vehicle inside and out, 7 passenger seating (2 more than the Edge), the same gas mileage as the Edge, and the use of very quality materials.
The bigger story should be peoples vast misconceptions about the quality of import vehicles. Look at the joke the Tundra has became.
Believe it or not cars like the Enclave do fill a niche
The problem is by GMs own admission the Enclave is meant to be a core product NOT a niche player. GM wants (i’m sorry NEEDS) high volume sales of this thing for it to be a success, just like the Malibu. To NOT make sales in high volumes amounts to a failure on GMs part no matter you you sum it up. Remember this thing aint no Corvette, it is just a player in a crowded field and folks WILL seek out alternatives if the Enclave is not available for sale. This is not the type of vehilce the average buyer will wait a year for.
Put any GM generated hype aside and the fact of the matter is the Enclave is NOT that special. The styling is subjective, the power is just average, the interior capacity is quite similar the many other players in the segment. Hell, GM itself has essentailly the same vehicle piling up at the local Saturn dealer. This says a great deal about the hype. If the Enclave or the Lambdas in general were so great would not these Saturns be moving also, or do GM Dealer not cooperate, meaning the Buick Dealer will not inform a customer that an Outlook might be avaialble ASAP.
Wow , that was exact wording from an official sent out document? That just reads so utterly childish, I don’t know how to comment. I can see people ON blogs and web media writing something like that , but an Official person from a MASSIVE corporation? Never mind the factual issues, the wording comes across like a child sent it out. I would seriously expect, that if Buick was to send out an official statement by a PR person, they would actually take some time to make said piece presentable.
The biggest question in all of this is…how are sales of all three Lambdas going to be affected when the Chevy Traverse comes in with the same 7-seat configuration and the same 3.6L V-6 engine and undercuts them all by at least a thousand bucks? Seriously, how screwed will the Outlook be then?
After reading this write up and the comments that follow lead me to believe that there is some truth to what Jonny Lieberman and RLJ676 wrote. I wonder how different the comments would be if one were to simply replace the word “Enclave” with “CX-9”. Hmmmmmmm.
My father in law NEVER purchases vehicles new. He has never bought a new car, truck, tractor, etc. in his life. That will probably change in the next month as he is looking real hard at the Enclave.
@timoted:
First, Jonny Lieberman didn’t write what you’re referring to. He wrote a blog post at Jalopnik, and a random person in the comments went off on an anti-TTAC diatribe.
Second, TTAC doesn’t pull punches with any manufacturer. The Enclave’s sales are good, but to apply the word “hot” is way off base. If Mazda, Toyota, or anyone else was running around saying a car with 30,000 sales is “hot,” TTAC would be sticking it to them.
Look, I love Buick and I like the Enclave. And I think it’s a good car for GM, profitable, and nice that it’s bringing new people into the brand (for now, as buyers in this segment tend to be extremely fickle). But let’s not pretend it’s a Lexus RX350 in volume or Porsche 911 in profit margins.
wmba : I find Buick’s Dave Darovitz’s remarks offensive in the extreme. First of all, he has the gall to call Frank Williams “Frankie”,
Well—-considering “Rabid Rick” , “Big Al”, and “Maximum Bob” are used more often than a cheap whore by some on this site—I don’t see where the objection is.
I’d also like to remind people that the Enclave did not start prodcution until April and did not hit most dealers until June-July. In yesterdays column, Frank did a good job elaborating on the July-Dec data—it gives a better picture as to how the Enclave is selling vs the competition. Last—I think we can all agree that the loser Outlook production needs to be pulled back–and the Enclave should get more production units….you can be exclusive without starving your dealers.
Justin Berkowitz :
But let’s not pretend it’s a Lexus RX350 in volume or Porsche 911 in profit margins.
Thanks for reaffirming everything. I assume you’ve got the inside track on all the numbers to back up everything. The Enclave is a fine vehicle that was not meant to compare with the likes of Lexus and Porsche on the balance sheet. Compare apples to apples, not apples to Kiwi.
jimmy2x:
I love the comparisons to Highlander Hybrid. It is a Toyota after all with a well-earned good rep. The Highlander Hybrid is grossly overpriced and difficult to find. Actual gasoline Highlanders are not setting sales records.
Grossly over-priced? What other large crossover hybrid on the market is available right now for 33K MSRP and one that gets good EPA numbers as well as has a good reputation? The Ford Escape and Vue Green Line don’t count, as the Highlander Hybrid is one full size class bigger than either of them.
To call the Highlander Hybrid “grossly overpriced” indicates you are making a comparison to other equivalent competitors, which there are none at the moment. When GM unveils a hybrid Outlook or hybrid Acadia or when Ford shows us a hybrid Edge and gives us pricing, maybe then we can talk.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2008010326480
Last month in December Toyota sold 14,714 Highlanders. December was a slow sales month for everyone, so this number is significant. To compare December sales figures, the Highlander outsold ALL the competition including the Acadia and Outlook *combined*, it outsold the Edge, Pilot, Escape, CX-7 and CX-9 *combined*, and it even outsold Toyota’s own Rav 4.
The ONLY CUV that had higher sales than the Highlander in December was the CR-V, which is much smaller and not in the same class as the Highlander. So what was that about sales records again? The Highlander was the sales leader in its class for the month of December.
P71_CrownVic:
The bigger story should be peoples vast misconceptions about the quality of import vehicles. Look at the joke the Tundra has became.
The bigger story is Detroit’s continued inability to stop making excuses and to start posting consistent profits.
timoted:
The Enclave is a fine vehicle that was not meant to compare with the likes of Lexus and Porsche on the balance sheet.
By GM’s own admission, the Enclave is meant to compete with Lexus. In Enclave advertising, GM directly compares it to the RX350. Now whether or not consumers in reality are actually cross-shopping an Enclave with an RX is an entirely different discussion.
Frank,
I think the tone of your response to Mr. Darovitz is unfortunate.
Three or four non-prosaic bullet points would have shone the light on the falseness of his spin re. Enclave sales. The real truth uncovered here, though may be that the GM folks actually believe what they are spewing. No surprise, then, that they are on Deathwatch.
Re. the Enclave. It is really good looking from the outside. But I bet it will age quickly. They better move them while they can!
Justin Berkowitz :
Second, TTAC doesn’t pull punches with any manufacturer. The Enclave’s sales are good, but to apply the word “hot” is way off base. If Mazda, Toyota, or anyone else was running around saying a car with 30,000 sales is “hot,” TTAC would be sticking it to them.
If GM was earning a profit of $10,000 per Enclave, which they definitely are not, then the Enclave would be bringing in $300,000/year. Assuming that wildly optimistic hypothetical number was true, this is still a car that offsets the price of one executive’s salary.
Last time I checked 30,000 sales with a $10K profit on each was about 300 million in profits. That will pay a few salaries.
Comparing the Mazda CX-9 with the Enclave is a very good comparison. Almost all of the other competitors mentioned dont perform the same funcions as the GM Lambdas and Mazda CX-9. Both the Mazda and GM have usable 3rd rows wich are easily accessable, similarly priced, similar size, can be similarly equipped.
If the criteria for a failure is not building enough vehicles to satisfy demand (as the article suggests), I am quite sure that any manufacturer would be quite happy to have a number of such failures on their hands. The original premise of this article makes no sense and defending it makes even less.
jimmy2x:
I love the comparisons to Highlander Hybrid. It is a Toyota after all with a well-earned good rep. The Highlander Hybrid is grossly overpriced and difficult to find.
I used the Highlander Hybrid comparison because the dealer posts their prices and inventory on their web site, and as a means of gauging demand. If you’re comparing the two versus each other as competitors, feel free to go right ahead.
There are 2 Enclaves in stock, the mean transaction price is about invoice, which means this isn’t quite the hot seller GM makes it out to be. FWIW, I bought a Toyota Sienna from this dealership back in 2004 and they asked $300 above invoice after the minivan had been out for over a whole year.
OTOH, there are 10 Highlander Hybrids in stock, asking price is $1200-$2000 above invoice. That’s hardly difficult to find – actually easier to find than an Enclave, and they’re able to command that much for them as demand is higher.
Just to set the record straight.The 3rd shift was only for ramp up purposes.G.M informed the UAW of the situation right from the start.
This vehicle might not be for everybody,myself included,but sales look good.Whats good for G.M. is good for me.
On another note I checked out the comments on Jalopnik.And ah ah ah mmmm,nah, I’ll let that one go.
However I will give TTAC kudos for having a web site that dummys like me can navigate.Jalopnik is a nightmare.
I have seen one Buick Enclave, two GMC Acadias and zero Saturn Outlooks on the road. The local dealer has two Enclaves sitting in the front row.
There is a new Infiniti FX35 and three new Lexus RX 350s on our street. In fact, excepting a three or four year old Chev Tahoe, there are no domestic cars whatsoever on this street.
@timoted:
Thanks for reaffirming everything. I assume you’ve got the inside track on all the numbers to back up everything. The Enclave is a fine vehicle that was not meant to compare with the likes of Lexus and Porsche on the balance sheet. Compare apples to apples, not apples to Kiwi.
You are completely misconstruing my point. I was saying exactly the same thing you are. The Enclave is an excellent car, but it’s not selling in the volumes of Lexus or with the profit margins of a Porsche. That’s okay, and it doesn’t mean it is a failure. What it does mean is that it is completely inaccurate for Buick to blather on about how “hot” the Enclave is.
Hot compared to what? If Buick is saying the Enclave is the hottest selling car on the market, they are not comparing apples to apples either. They’re comparing the Enclave to everything else. And in the scheme of everything else, 30,000 sales is not “hottest selling crossover” on the market.
Also, the Enclave is absolutely supposed to compete with the Lexus RX350. Despite having a third row of seats, Buick has been clear that it wants to be “American Lexus.” They both cost $30-$45k and are luxury crossovers.
Gardiner Westbound—where do you reside ?
I’ll probably never buy one, but I do like the Enclaves styling, and I’ll give Kudos to Buick for having a vehicle that brings back a bit more of an upscale (and perhaps even sexy) look. I will say that I’m biased towards the Lambdas – I like all of them, but just find them a bit big.
As odd as this might sound, we actually have four Lambda class vehicles in the space of a dozen or so houses on my street – one guy actually has 2 Enclaves and his neighbour has the Acadia, so I see three of them a fair bit (the Outlook is the “other” way down the road and I don’t notice it as much). For comparison’s sake we have but one “new” Toyota Highlander (didn’t see a hybrid logo). While I’d say the majority of mid/larger SUVs/CUVs around me are still imports (Nissan/Infiniti/Toyota/Lexus), I’m definitely seing some movement towards domestics this year…
Personally, I’ll still probably just by another Land Rover and call it a day!
Well up here in Ontario then there must be a slew of folks willing to fork over $49,520.00-$55,635.00 (right off the local dealer website btw) for what I consider a middling (for that dollar) vehicle. I mean it’s ok, but I’d choose the Acadia over the Buick, and at 40 grand for the Acadia, it’s also way overpriced here in Canada. So there’s financing… used a spreadsheet to project ahead on it? While receiving some positive comments, there’s no way of knowing what the longer term reliability of these vehicles will be, and that will translate into residual value, or not. Use that same spreadsheet there too. History is a lesson oft ignored. Credit where it’s due, both have a LOT of legroom up front, something many manufacturers seem to have skimped on of late.
I think the real question has got to be why isn’t GM producing more Enclaves if it is in such high demand? This goes hand in fist with the inexplicable megabucks Malibu advertising campaign months before it was available. It also reminds me of how Ford misstepped when they introduced the latest generation of Mustang. They only estimated that demand for the V8 would be about 10% of total Mustang sales. As a result the Mustang GT was a hot car-long waits priced well over invoice-but they also undoubtedly cut into their own profit through customers settling for the lower-priced, less profitable V6 Mustang or buying an entirely different car. How is this a good thing? In general, you aim to maximize profits by meeting demand at a price point that earns you the profit per unit you deem necessary. There are of course exceptions to this, e.g. Ferrari in the auto industry, Rolex watches, etc., but I don’t think GM should be aspiring to exclusivity with essentially bread and butter cars.
Lumbergh21- Launch mix and production not only a domestic automaker problem. Toyota’s recent Tundra launch had huge mix issues
Lumbergh21 has it right-Why isn’t GM making more of them? Keeping it in such short supply doesn’t seem to make any sense, especially since a clone of the Enclave, made on the same production line, (the Outlook) is overstocked, and they are only running two shifts instead of three (you make more money per vehicle running three shifts instead of two because fixed costs are spread over more vehicles). Now, keeping it in kinda short supply makes sense, to keep transaction prices up, but it’s in such short supply that it just pisses dealers and customers off.
That is, look at Scion. Toyota intentionally makes it so that basically there’s no stock of Scions-but there isn’t a three month waiting list either. That’s how you do it. The Enclave is in way too short supply for no obvious reason-GM is losing profits as potential customers go buy Lexus RX350s instead of waiting forever. If they are trying to make it a status symbol or something by keeping it in short supply-um, it’s a Buick, that ain’t going to work, especially since the other two Buick models are pedestrian and overstocked.
As for the Tundra, it did have a product mix problem. They thought that the base V6 version would only be 15% of sales-turned out it was even less than that. So they lowered production on the base models and piled on incentives on them to get rid of them. Not really a big deal, all things considered.
Let me get this straight. The Lexus RX330 was released in, what, 1999? It has had almost nine years of existence to carve its niche as one of the more conservative vehicles in the class, backed with all of the “Lexus” brand cache. Nine years of Toyota “constant improvement,” etc. Same with the Highlander.
GM introduced the Lambda triplets — a brand new platform) — and again compare the sales of all three since they have the same engineering under the sheet metal — in model year 2007. In a year and a half of Lambda existence, the triplets have been able to compete very well in sales against the well-established and brand-cached RX330 / Highlander.
That’s pretty amazing in anyone’s book. I am sure that GM is pretty happy with its effort.
If I understand correctly, Scion’s kind of a special case; most options are dealer-installed, so there’s less reason to carry much inventory. That seems smart but it also skews the meaning of Scion inventory when measured against other vehicles.
In any event, yeah, why not make somewhat more Buicks, hopefully looking to see which packages move the fastest and targeting them?
Is also have to wonder if offering upscale trim levels only is shifting people to other CUVs?
By the way, I don’t care for the looks; it looks to me rather like a cartoon car. I’ve only had a chance to ask a few others for their opinions but no one I asked happens to like it, either. Not a terribly signficant statistical sample, of course, but a car that doesn’t appeal seems less likely to be a “hot seller.”
OK, so lets deal with GM logic here.
Build 3 virtually identical vehicles off of the same platform in the same factory.
One of the triplets (Arcadia)is selling very well and GM is prodcuing enough vehicles to meet the demand.
One of the triplets (Outlook)is NOT selling very well yet GM continues to produce moer vehicles than it can sell.
One of the triplets (Enclave)is in very high demand and the dealers have waiting list of ready costumers yet GM refuses to (OR CANT) increase production to meet the demand.
There is something very wrong about this story and I get the impression that GM is full sugar, honey, and ice tea. Only a GM fan can swim though this sea of illogical B.S. and not think they smell like shit afterwards.
There is probably more to this story than GM is letting us in on. Are there production problems with the Enclave? Maybe GM is actually having a hard time getting those new fancy panels to fit together and line-up evenly. Maybe the supplier of the interiors is shipping too many defective parts. Or maybe GM misjugded the demand and is unable to make enough of the top of the line model Enclave and folks are NOT interested in the base or mid-level models.
Can it possible be that the demand for the Enclave is actually “niche”. The demand is for the loaded models that costumers are considering as budget RX350s. Is it possible that there is rather limited demand for the POS looking base models because the Arcadia is handling that demand easily. This can easily just be a model-mix problem and the Enclave is NOT the “hot” product that GM is claiming it is.
Is also have to wonder if offering upscale trim levels only is shifting people to other CUVs?
@KixStart:
I’m afraid I don’t know what you mean. Are you saying that by having a large percentage of expensive trimmed vehicles in stock, people who can’t afford it move down price-wise to another car? I don’t think that’s what Mr. Darovitz was saying. I thought he was saying that the customers preferred the high-line CXL, so they had to keep making more.
Dave’s rejoinder to Frank’s article reminds me of the time I went to drive an A4. When we talked price, they wouldn’t negotiate. When I asked why, he told me it was because the A4 is a low volume car and that it’s exclusive.
After I picked myself up laughing, I went down to BMW to lease a 3 series for less money than Audi wanted for their 4 cyl. A4.
Dave, there’s a sales job waiting for you at Rusnak Audi.
True that most options are dealer (or port) installed on Scions, but you still have color and transmission choices (and side airbags for the xA and tC, and traction control for the xD).
In any case, if almost all Enclaves sold are of the highest trim level, then the variety of options would also be minimal, probably breaking down to mainly color and whether or not you want a nav system.
In any case, my point was that there never was a long waiting period for any Scion-maybe a week or two at the most. Not true with the Enclave-one or more months seems typical. It’s the difference between Just-In-Time and Way-To-Late.
Carshark, yes, that’s what I’m wondering. Maybe the waiting list is people waiting for a less expensive trim.
Also “waiting list” (and I’m not sure how “paid” figures into such a thing) seems strange when viewed in juxtaposition with dealer ads for invoice pricing.
If Buick’s making money – great. However, I have more questions than answers.
I love all this pointless bickering…Do all of you honestly think the Enclave is a bad vehicle? Have you been close to one? Sat in one? Driven one?
paulpita07: I love all this pointless bickering…Do all of you honestly think the Enclave is a bad vehicle? Have you been close to one? Sat in one? Driven one? And there you have it: Detroit's current attitude towards its competitive woes (and the lapdog press that follows behind). "We're building great cars now, so quit your bitching. What do you want, blood?" The thing of it is, the U.S. is a cut-throat market. There's plenty of blood running through the streets of Detroit in the form of red ink, no matter how quickly or stylishly you drive over it. Until Detroit faces up to its RELATIVE excellence (or lack thereof), it's doomed. And yes, I've driven the Lambda triplets. Review of the GMC Acadia soon.
jimmy2x:
I love the comparisons to Highlander Hybrid. It is a Toyota after all with a well-earned good rep. The Highlander Hybrid is grossly overpriced and difficult to find. Actual gasoline Highlanders are not setting sales records.
Grossly over-priced? What other large crossover hybrid on the market is available right now for 33K MSRP and one that gets good EPA numbers as well as has a good reputation? The Ford Escape and Vue Green Line don’t count, as the Highlander Hybrid is one full size class bigger than either of them.
To call the Highlander Hybrid “grossly overpriced” indicates you are making a comparison to other equivalent competitors, which there are none at the moment. When GM unveils a hybrid Outlook or hybrid Acadia or when Ford shows us a hybrid Edge and gives us pricing, maybe then we can talk.
Should have made myself more clear. Since the Enclave would be considered somewhat of a luxury car I was comparing pricing on the Highlander Gasoline Limited ($32,000 base) and the Hybrid which starts at $39,950 which is one heck of a price for a Highlander. I’m not knocking Toyota but drive a Highlander and then an Enclave and tell me which one you like better.
In my opinion, if they’re building great cars, then what is there really to bitch about?
Just a couple of more thoughts. 1st of all, I am not a GM “supporter” as the only one I’ve EVER had was a ’56 Chevy.
I have driven all three of the Lambda models.
1. The Outlook should have gone to Chevy in the 1st place. Dumb decision as they would have far more exposure to the market. Right or wrong, many buyers do NOT like the policy or no negotiation at Saturn and the number of dealerships is far more limited.
2. The Acadia looks a lot more “trucky” and a lot of potential “SUV” buyers like that along with the fact that the price is negotiable.
3. Enclave is a very good-looking vehicle and if it wore a Lexus badge nobody would blink an eye. I’m not saying that it is as “good” as a Lexus but comparably equiped is a hell of a lot less expensive and will seat 7 easily. You cannot do that in an RX350. Additionally, it is as quiet as the tomb, a feature that a lot of potential buyers for this type of car really like.
I’m still looking and will not buy until this summer, but I’ve yet to find another vehicle with the features that I want in it that comes close without costing tons more.
# detroit1701 :
January 15th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Let me get this straight. The Lexus RX330 was released in, what, 1999? It has had almost nine years of existence to carve its niche as one of the more conservative vehicles in the class, backed with all of the “Lexus” brand cache. Nine years of Toyota “constant improvement,” etc. Same with the Highlander.
GM introduced the Lambda triplets — a brand new platform) — and again compare the sales of all three since they have the same engineering under the sheet metal — in model year 2007. In a year and a half of Lambda existence, the triplets have been able to compete very well in sales against the well-established and brand-cached RX330 / Highlander.
That’s pretty amazing in anyone’s book. I am sure that GM is pretty happy with its effort.
The Highlander and RX share a platform the same that the Lambdas do and have been strong sellers from Day 1. The current models are the second generation of each. I don’t know that anyone’s arguing about the Enclave being a nice vehicle – its more about whether GM’s claims that its a sales success is the Truth. Maybe by their own diminished standards it is. However, by their book, Toyota and Honda would not consider it to be such an amazing success for such an important core product. The bottom line is that GM’s Lamdbas combined sell half of what Toyota’s Highlander/RX sell in spite of three vs. two models and more sales outlets. That Lexus sold almost as many RX’s as Lambdas explains why they’re profitable and GM is not (“Highest Trim Level” == most profitable sale, right?).
Can you sustain this, or will Enclave be like other GM models that tank once you satisfy the initial demand?
Sounds like a little venom there, no?
In December, Buick booked 4,726 units
That’s about 56,000 annually.
In 2007, Chrysler sold about that many Pacificas.
OUCH!!
That was a fairly unprofessional communication from Buick. Sad really.
That is, look at Scion. Toyota intentionally makes it so that basically there’s no stock of Scions-but there isn’t a three month waiting list either.
Good example. In its first year of production, I read a little blurb in the Wall Street Journal that indicated the Scion xB had the second lowest number of days in inventory (Prius had the fewest), yet when I went to my local Toyota dealer, one block from work, they had three in stock. Not a great inventory by any means, but they also told me they had five more coming in that Friday. I could try out either a basic manual transmission xB or one of two different trim levels of an xB with auto. that would be plenty to make a decision regarding the car itself, while the incoming Scions offered me another color choice for the manual or three other color choices in two different trim levels for the auto. That is a good production to demand ratio IMO. To artificially limit production in order to increase desirability of what is an ultimately basic car like the Enclave doesn’t make sense to me. They should be making hay while the sun is shining.
ouch!!!
paulpita07 :
January 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
I love all this pointless bickering…Do all of you honestly think the Enclave is a bad vehicle? Have you been close to one? Sat in one? Driven one?
Isn’t that what the internet is all about?
I think most of us-certainly me-are just wondering what the reson is that they aren’t increasing production of Buick Enclaves to meet the demend for this declared “hot product”? Personally, I’m opining that the guys at GM are out-thinking themselves, so to speak, and making a collosal blunder in an attempt to say, see look at these long waiting lists, it must be in high demand and a great car.
I suppose that I should weigh in on this, as I was in the process of researching an article on this very topic of the overblown, not-quite-so-hot Enclave. I’ll touch on a few points that supplement some of the points made by Frank Williams and others above:
> The Enclave is a combined replacement for both the Rendezvous and the Rainier. Assuming a current sales pace for the Enclave of about 50k vehicles per year, Enclave sales are below both of those retired models collectively, and less than the Rendezvous individually. (In Buick’s defense, I don’t have fleet sales data for the Enclave and the Rendezvous did a pretty brisk fleet business, so a comparison of the retail sales figures might be a wash. Still, a wash is not the same as a home run hit.)
> As noted by some above, it’s disingenuous for Mr. Darowitz to make the unqualified claim that “The Enclave IS the hottest selling crossover in the industry” when similar vehicles such as the Ford Edge (130k sold during 2007), Lexus RX (103k), Acura MDX (58k) and even GMC Acadia (72k) all outsell it.
> Meanwhile, Buick’s overall US sales fell 23% between 2006 and 2007. Overall, the brand is not performing all that well in the United States.
> As mentioned above, the Lansing Township plant where the Lambda triplets are built has cut its third shift. Clearly, the plant is not operating at full capacity, and Mr. Darowitz’s claim that “customer and dealer demand for this standout Buick far exceeds what the plant can physically produce” isn’t accurate.
The initial plan was to build the Enclave and Outlook in about equal numbers, with the most share going to GMC. I hadn’t yet gathered all of the data, but I’m guessing that the relatively low Buick inventories are not part of a brilliant plot to stimulate demand, but mostly the result of poor product planning and Saturn’s failure to materialize as a credible player that could sell its share of the product being produced.
I suspect that the real story lurking here is not the alleged success of the Enclave, but of the nail being pounded in a coffin that will be prepared for Saturn. If the Astra flops, my bet is that barring some miracle, Saturn will eventually join Oldsmobile in the great automotive junkyard in the sky.
“Saturn will eventually join Oldsmobile in the great automotive junkyard in the sky.”
Three strikes and they’re out. As it would involve buying out stand alone franchises, closing Saturn would be costly.
Adrian Imonti:
So basically, Buick is selling the number of Enclaves forecast a year or two ago, and because of that it’s touted as a raging success? GM must not be able to switch allocations, so much for shared platforms.
The truth is that there are few people who need full size third row seat 99% of the time. It is a limited market. That being said, I wonder how people get by in Europe. There in lies the key.. North America will eventually move away from big huge vehicles… Efficiency will take over as it is unavoidable. Buick Enclave doesnt look like an efficient vehicle.
The problem lies in that 1% of the time – however, we’ll all go buy a Ford S-Max, Saturn Zafira, Honda Stream, Mazda5, Toyota Verso et al
In answer to Starlightmica’s question, I can only surmise what GM expected to produce, not what it expected to sell. We know the approximate production capacity of the Lansing Township plant and we know the approximate product mix among the Lambda triplets, which allows us to back into a rough projection. But why they chose the product mix that it did is an answer that I can’t provide you (which is one reason I hadn’t yet run with this story.)
The good news: the low inventories are a good sign for GM, in that overall demand for Enclave is well matched to supply. That limits the need for incentives, supports the profitability of their dealer network, and should lead to better used residuals.
However, this issue of allegedly long waiting lists have me baffled. The waiting list story may or may not be true, but whatever it is, it isn’t consistent with GM’s own reports of days-of-inventory data. Competitors that often maintain similarly low inventories in the 20-30 day range (e.g. BMW and Lexus) maintain strong sales prices, yet don’t carry these extensive waiting lists. Meanwhile, Edmunds reports that average sales prices are about $1k below MSRP, again another sign that there shouldn’t be considerable waiting lists.
Overall, I am led to believe that GM had relatively modest expectations for the Enclave, and that low hurdle was met and possibly exceeded.
GM’s press spin has been hyping the low inventory data, which itself is a good thing. But the inventory data only tells you that the company is producing supply in line with demand, not that the vehicle is wowing the market. While I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a flop, there has been a lot of PR hype about it being a raging sales success, even though the unit sales figures don’t support that conclusion.