We've never known quite what to make of the A3. Sure, sure, it's a great car with the DSG and the AWD and the big engine, but then the price tag can bump $40k and well, STI please. Those in the know also know that underneath the A3's pretty skin sits the guts of a Volkswagen Golf, er Rabbit. Even at "just" $25K, that's expensive. However, those that don't know, don't care and the A3 has been selling well. Well enough in fact that Motor Authority is reporting Audi will be developing a number of A3 variants. These include but are not limited to a 3-door hatch, a convertible, an S3, a wagon, a small sedan, a sportback and an A3 Allroad. Also, one can never forget that Audi is a German company, meaning that each successive must be bulkier than the previous. And since the new A4 has swelled to nearly BMW 5-Series proportions, expect the 2011 A3 to compete size-wise with the Bavarian 3-Series. If not price-wise, too.
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maybe it’ll be a lithe 1500kg this time?
so how do Audi and BMW square up now
A3=1 series?
A4/new A3=3 Series
A4/A6=5 series
A6/A8=7 series
A8=?
A5=6 series??
about right?
DrBrian
Considering BMWs keep porking up as well (3400 lb 1-series ? ? ? ) you can assume the 1 competes with the A3, the 3 still competes with the A4 and A5, the 5 still competes with the A6, there is no 6 competitor, and the 7 still competes with the A8.
and they’ve all got various bimbo box iterations like the x3/x5/x6 and Q7 and whatever the hell other monstrosities Audi decides to spew forth.
“STI please” I’m inclined to agree.
A nice interior is a nice interior, but sometimes that excuse sounds like a cop out. “Yes, that MS3 (that costs thousands less) toasted me at that stoplight and then on that backroad, but look at this interior!!”
My thing is interiors and brand cache only have so much mileage with me when it comes to price. If I’m paying $35-40k for a car it better be one of the leading performers in its price range.
That A3 ragtop makes the VW Cabrio look butch.
I think people seem to forget that the #1 single factor most people consider in the purchase of a car is style. Many deny it (citing safety or economy or whatever, which makes them sound more discerning).
The STI is a terrific car, no doubt. I haven’t driven the latest version, but I just don’t see it attracting the junior executive crowd the way Audi does.
Regarding interiors…well, I value it because that’s where I spend all of my time. Not strapped to the hood so I can admire the lines.
IMHO, Audi (and to a lesser degree, VW) delivers on both interior quality and exterior style, and does it fairly well. They’re not in the business of building questionably-attractive-but-screamingly-fast-at-all-costs machines.
ash78- agree completely.
I get the A3. Yes, underneath it’s a Golf, but it’s a Golf where every little piece has been made a little bit better. If you’re looking to spend about $25-30k on a car, the 2.0T is competitive. The STI & MS3 are downright ugly by comparison.
All the points- you get a better interior, slightly different suspension, optional AWD, and of course the Audi design, are perfectly valid. But then there’s also the added prestige of driving an Audi vs. a Volkswagen- especially at the entry-level price point. Making it easier to step up to an Audi may mean that the purchaser will buy another Audi next time… maybe an A4 or 6.
It’s a bit like the Camry vs. ES. Yes, you could buy a fully-loaded Camry, but the ES is quieter, has a more luxurious interior, and sleeker outside lines. Plus it has a big L on the front of it…and you know, when the buyer reaches… 80.. they might buy an LS…
I have a 2002 A6. I will look at a similar sized Audi next time around – after 2009. I think that means I’ll be looking at an A4.
I’ve driven A3 loaners, no VWs. I’d consider the former but not the latter, based on difference in the local dealer reputations, both sales and service.
ash78, I also agree. I dearly wish I had miles of winding back roads at my disposal, and that I could simply opt for the best performance for the money. Unfortunately, I spend more time stuck in traffic (I work downtown in a fairly large city). It is during those times that I appreciate the interior of a car.
Also, many of us (I, for instance, am a financial advisor) have to take clients and prospective clients out. Much as I love them, one look at the STI’s exterior or MS3’s interior is going to be all it takes for a client to say, “no, I don’t think I’ll be investing my money with him.”
so, in this case, prestige = brand snobbery.
Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t mind a nice interior and exterior. However, the Mazda isn’t a Kmart special. It is a good looking car that is nice to sit in.
I just don’t agree with paying extra for a Golf because it has Auto Union badge just for the sake of it and you might impress your peers with it is justifiable. That’s like the reason to buy Armani is to impress the other person who can careless about you and how up market the suit you wear is.
If style is your arguement, that’s fine. People should buy what they want. But when a GTI that’s parade itself as an Audi starts to creep towards $35k+ an Infiniti G35/37 starts to look pretty stylish too.
just sayin’.
“Also, one can never forget that Audi is a German company, meaning that each successive must be bulkier than the previous. And since the new A4 has swelled to nearly BMW 5-Series proportions..”
Agreed that’s my biggest issue with cars of late and German cars in particlar. However the 2009 (B8) A4 is expected to reverse that trend. The 2008 (B7) A4 3.2 Quattro Automatic weighs about 3750 lbs., where as the 2009 A4 3.2 Quattro Automatic is expected to be about 3500 lbs. If that holds true and they bring over a turbo V6 for the B8 S4, I may have found a replacement for my ’01 S4.
“STI Please”… I don’t think so. Since when is the A3 a direct competitor? Never. You seem to forget that only about 7% of all cars sold are sold with manual transmissions. That alone means no to your STI’s and no to your MS3’s. Many people looking at Audi would not even look at those cheap brands, so how would they ever buy one of those cars??? I like performance and probably know performance better than anyone here, but it really doesn’t matter to much of the world.
I like performance and probably know performance better than anyone here
Thanks for slumming with us.
You seem to forget that only about 7% of all cars sold are sold with manual transmissions.
My gawd that is a depressing statistic.
–chuck
I cross shopped the A3 with the MS3 as well as the GTI, but when push came to shove, the MS3 is where I put my money. Acting as though the A3 is anything more that a gussied up Vee-Dub is pure brand snobery.
John R :
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I just don’t agree with paying extra for a Golf because it has Auto Union badge just for the sake of it and you might impress your peers with it is justifiable. That’s like the reason to buy Armani is to impress the other person who can careless about you and how up market the suit you wear is.
That logic breaks down when the other person does care about the suit you’re wearing.
If you’re going to ask someone to trust you with hundreds or millions of dollars in an investment portfolio you don’t usually show up wearing jeans and driving a 240SX.
It may be a self fulfilling prophecy, and it may be stupid, but if the majority of your customers expect you tow ear a nice suit and drive a suitable car that’s what you do.
Obviously that isn’t a “everybody all the time” rule- I’m sure there’s a big-time financial advisor doing business in shorts and a t-shirt from the back of an F150 right now- but if you haven’t developed a reputation that can carry that outfit you buy the Armani and the Audi.
I have to agree with Mj0lnir and BigMass, I can definitely see being embarassed that you drive an STI or EVO. I definitely can’t see you taking your boss to lunch in one. However, I can’t see a good reason to have one over a GTI.
Why not go for the ultimate A3? Make it an Allroad Cabrio. Heck, why they are at it, make it an amphib.
Now that I put all that down, I realize that VW already made the Schwimmwagen. I wonder how it sold?
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I wouldn’t be embarrassed to drive the MS3 or the STI (my brother has a regular 3 hatch, and it’s really nice). I’d actually love either car. However, to me at least, the MS3 looks like a college kids car and the STI looks like a boy racer’s car. There’s nothing wrong with either of those things at all, but with respect to my clients, perception is reality, and I need to seem as professional and conservative as possible. Believe me, I’m not a fan of this, as in my previous life (working on a doctorate in mathematics) I had cool long hair, earrings, and shaved twice a week. Needless to say that is no longer the case. And for disclosure, I did look at the A3 vs. the GTI, and picked the GTI (it no longer has the GTI badges, and the red grill ring has been painted black to make it seem more appropriate to my clients). They are very, very different cars in my estimation.
Strippo : That A3 ragtop makes the VW Cabrio look butch.
Thanks, I plan to put the top down this afternoon. I’m a dude with a beard. I figure I may be the only American male driving one of these with a wife and kids along for the ride.
VBG!