Torque and towing aside, I am a diesel skeptic. These Interstate soot-belchers are on par with the jerk that pulls his finger and farts in a crowded room, laughing at everyone in his wake. And now that the good oil is far north of $4 a gallon, I feel truly vindicated. Or not. That's because my girlfriend needs a new whip, and her ultra-clean 2006 Jetta TDI took a serious depreciation hit. Not buying it? Neither is Carmax, to the tune of $2125 less than KBB's trade in value, over $2800 less than Edmunds. The No-haggle Superstore's appraisal said it all in two words, the "market conditions" are a changing. Sure, this ain't no Carter-era diesel Cutlass, but Jettas aimed at enviro-friendly gas savers just met the cruel reality of history repeating itself.
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Sorry, but stating that the offer is based on ‘market conditions’ is a complete lie.
Carmax valued a 2008 Honda Fit Sport that I recently purchased from a lady at $11,500. I offered her $12,900 which was far more reflective of the actual wholesale price. I have it online for $15,500 as of this afternoon and have already received three separate calls on it.
Sajeev, I would be happy to pay $500 more than whatever Carmax offered, fly into Texas, and drive it back. But I’m willing to bet you could get thousands more by selling it privately.
Just an FYI, I wouldn’t be surprised if Carmax makes a net profit in the nine figures by low balling the public and selling these cars to the dealers. They do approximately 4000 of these deals a week and their net has to be at least $1000 per car. I don’t really blame them for doing it. It’s a market opportunity based on the owner’s ignorance, and said owner has the right to say yes or no.
But if you personally want a healthier balance sheet, you ought to simply sell the car yourselves.
Sounds more like KMX smells (ha) the new diesels right around the corner and doesn’t want to tie up money in the last-gen.
The new ones are going to be pretty sweet. I don’t think a temporary* swing in diesel prices has much effect on the long-term depreciation of the car, but it can definitely affect a company who plans to flip it quickly.
*Historically, diesel has always been at or below gas prices. Historically, the S&P 500 returns 8%. That doesn’t mean both can’t suck for short periods of time ;)
FYI: right now we are trying to sell it privately. Got one bite, probably not gonna take the plunge.
Thanks for sharing, Steven…I was hoping you’d comment. $500 over Carmax is what the VW dealer offered, which isn’t enough to justify the tax savings of trading in at the next dealer she buys a car from. But the reason for this blog is about the size of the discrepancy between KBB/Edmunds trade-in values and what three dealers offered.
How wrong are KBB trade-in values on average? Over $2000? This blew me away.
I’m with Steven Lang on his assessment. I would definitely sell the car privately. In some places, there are waiting lists for diesel VW’s, new or used. It should sell quickly, dependent upon pricing.
We have been seeing people post for the past couple years extolling the virtures of not only the upcoming (whenever they finally arrive) cleaner diesels, but the current dirty crop as well.
The argument for the current dirty diesels has often rested on resale value. Well I hope you all sold in time, because like the housing slump, if you didnt get out at the right time, you are screwed. With insane diesel prices and a soon to be glut of (unsold) new cleaner diesels, no one is going to want to buy these old soot-mobiles.
I will always remember driving to Vegas in my Prius (70 mph averaged 49 mpg), getting passed by a shiny WHITE diesel Jetta with a nice big black patch on its bumper. NICE!!!
Hmmm…so are you now still vindicated?
Seems to me you still have your anti-diesel bias showing even though the replies seemed to slap back.
Are you even at all any knowledgeable about diesels?
Or do you simply need to hold your position, regardless of facts?
Damn the torpedos, straight ahead!
Don’t you just hate it when facts get in the way of a good argument!?
I have been pursuit diesels in the used market for a long time, and NOTHING holds their value more.
And you and all diesel haters never discuss long term reliability of these. Do you know why trucks use diesels?
I like TTAC but sometimes the writing(ers) feel more inclined to hear their own colorful use of words and phrases, rather than direct, reliable and unbiased analysis.
Oh…and one more thing.
Please stop calling the current/past crop of diesels “dirty”.
Over 50 percent of all cars, including sports, sold in Europe are diesels.
Although “dirty” by our wonderfully environmentally aware USA laws, the “dirty” Europe seems to do really well.
So, what gives.
Their cars are all diesels, but to us they are dirty!
ppellico: Seems to me you still have your anti-diesel bias showing…
I wrote this blog with an anti-diesel bias by design. They seem to depreciate like mad here.
Some people love them, but all the not “clean” models still belch soot everywhere. Hey, sometimes its cool to fart in public.
ppellico: Don’t you just hate it when facts get in the way of a good argument!?
Unless you can tell me why everyone in town wants thousands less than published trade-in values, I’d like to know just what “facts” you’ve got to counter this “biased” blog posting.
While our diesels are very clean, they are still not quite as clean as Euro diesels…but that is changing with the new “blue” (urea injected) generation coming forth.
We still have a low-content of sulfur in some markets, Europe has no sulfur diesel.
You’ll get a much better deal if you sell on the private market! Diesel sales have been down due to fuel price and the added cost of the diesel powerplant. Right now, the extra cost doesn’t outweigh the savings in MPG.
Although, the additional torque is what I like about diesels the most. But it seems that cars are sold on horsepower, not torque.
ppellico: Please stop calling the current/past crop of diesels “dirty”. Over 50 percent of all cars, including sports, sold in Europe are diesels.
Europe has used (about) 0% sulfur diesel for years. America uses crap diesel by comparison.
You’re talking Apples to Oranges!
@ ppellico-
Do you really not see the flaw in your argument?
The 2006 TDI is literally 17 times more polluting than a 2006 Prius. As in HC, CO and NOx, and that is not even counting the particulates (of which the Prius has virtually none). Particulates can cause heart trouble (or heart attacks) and are a suspected carcinogen.
I wrote this about 3 years ago. Presceint? Have a read.
One of the big reasons I purchased my 2005 Toyota Prius (title and first sentence) and waited for it for 9 ½ months, was because I feel strongly that we Americans must begin to make a change for the better, and start to wean ourselves off the oil economy.
While purely electric vehicles probably are not yet practical for use in much of North America, and in fact the technology for same appears to be hardly any better than 1925, the hybrid electric vehicle seems to be the short-term answer, at least.
Having researched the new Prius starting in the autumn of 2003, when the second generation car came out, and then having seen both the new Prius and the new Honda Civic hybrid at the Grand Rapids, Michigan International Auto Show, I knew that it was time to take a stand. The Civic was too small inside and the mileage could not meet that of the Prius, therefore I selected the Prius. However, the 2006 Honda Civic hybrid appears to be competitive with the Prius, so if your preferences lie with Honda or you do not require the flexibility of a folding rear seat, the new Civic (soon to be introduced) is a good selection.
Most Americans seem to feel as if they need a massive SUV or pickup truck to feel safe, however, that misconception is one which seems to have been foisted on the public by a cynical and profit-driven automotive near monopoly centered in southeastern Michigan and dare I say it, by paid minions in Washington DC. What else can anyone conclude after looking at how SUVs and massive trucks were given tax breaks for years, CAFÉ (corporate fuel economy) breaks for years and emissions-test breaks for years? (Cars must pollute less than light trucks, according to current law. Why? Politics).
In fact, SUVs and pickup trucks are historically less safe for drivers, passengers and other vehicle users for several reasons. First, the high center of gravity means that taller vehicles are more prone to tipping, rolling over, and departing the road. The old saying of “keep the shiny side up and the greasy side down” is actually less easy to do with a tall vehicle. It is simply a function of physics. Second, it is human nature, especially for parents, to want to make a safe environment for their children. Cynical auto companies have pushed the idea that ‘your wife will be twice as safe’ idea of 4 wheel drive since a 1965 advertisement for the Kaiser Jeep Wagoneer used those very words. In fact, four wheel drive gives many drivers a false sense of security, leading them into a potential for accidents. Why? Because, it is easily forgotten that in low traction conditions, just because all wheel or four wheel drive provides extra abilities for forward movement, it does absolutely nothing in regards to the all-important steering or stopping of said vehicle. Third, the current crop of larger SUVs and virtually all pickup trucks except the Honda Ridgeline, are built on what is called a full frame – sort of a bridgework of steel on which the bodywork is placed, rather than the alternative, called unitized construction, where the body shell is welded into one piece, kind of like an egg is one unit. The problem for other vehicles is that tall, larger SUVs and trucks’ frame rails are right at the level of their heads or shoulders in a side-collision. Recent developments are reducing this danger, but it is still there, and in fact, with the average US vehicle age now nearly 10 years, it will take another decade for this danger to diminish.
In fact, some 7% of new vehicle purchasers are now buying minivan type vehicles, and this, along with the new crossover segment, are likely to grow. But once again, the same factors come into play. Besides, what exactly is mini about a so-called minivan weighing in at more than two tons, anyway?
Purchasing a vehicle which is adequate for 90% of one’s needs, rather than purchasing a vehicle which is suitable for 99% of one’s wants, is where the future must be if we are to not squander all of the resources and therefore take away a decent level of living standard from our children and our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren. In fact, I submit to you all that if you look at what your true needs are, that a new Honda Civic hybrid or new Toyota Prius hybrid is likely to be able to handle virtually all of it, and if not, then perhaps in approximately a year, when and if Toyota and or Honda finally bring out a hybrid minivan or crossover with 7 or 8 seats (in North America), you should have a vehicle available to handle your needs. >
In fact, it is widely known that virtually all of us drive to work without carpooling, and the average vehicle has fewer than 3 people in it even on a weekend.
This pretty well leaves most Americans without excuse as to why they shouldn’t consider a true hybrid vehicle – the biggest hold up being the lack of supply.
Just do put things into proper perspective; we still have a mid-sized conventional automobile in our household, since we cannot afford to purchase two new hybrids at the same time. Our 2002 Hyundai Sonata V6 obtains about 24 miles per gallon on average, and has done so consistently. Our 2005 Toyota Prius hybrid has averaged almost exactly 50 miles per (US) gallon carefully measured over the first 5000 miles of use, and now in the autumn and winter (in northwestern Michigan), with full winter Bridgestone Blizzak tires, it has obtained 49.1 miles per gallon over the past 2000 miles.
The interior room of the Prius is actually somewhat larger than the Sonata, though the trunk in the Sonata may be slightly larger and the car can supposedly reach 60 mph a second or so faster. The Prius does make up for the deficit in luggage area by being a much more flexible hatchback with folding rear seats, compared to the Sonata, which is a sedan (though does have folding rear seats, as well). The performance difference in real life is virtually non-existent.
Obviously, this means a 100% improvement in miles per gallon for the same functionality.
The biggest problem I have is replying to the many people who stop me to ask about the car, and want to know if I have to plug it in at night.
So, what has this to do with the title of the piece? Well, if everyone in the United States drove a suitable hybrid vehicle, within a decade, we could cease imports of oil from nations which, apparently, seek to destroy our nation, our freedom and our way of life.
Perhaps some of our way of life (wastefulness, for example) is not worth keeping, but much of it is. If we are to survive as a culture, as a nation, as a people, we must look beyond our own stomach (i.e. selfish desires) and consider the future. This includes practical measures and decisions which can be taken on a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly basis.
Listen up AGAIN folks.
Diesel is now high because of a lack of refining capacity in the US. The first new refineries/major expansions since the seventies are now being built to refine mostly diesel. Be patient, it will be another year or so.
How many times do I have to post this?
PS.
Sajeev, tell the lady to keep the car. It’s only 2 years old! She will do much better selling it in a couple more years. Don’t be guilty of trending out the recent depreciation into the future.
Man oh, man oh, menno …that was some venting man.. I’m no SUV lover nor do I love Prius, but all that you have said is just common sense truth and I agree with you. Well said.
What happened to the good ol’ common sense in the people of this country?
Landcrusher: its good to hear more diesel processing is in our future. We sure has heck need it.
Sajeev, tell the lady to keep the car. It’s only 2 years old! She will do much better selling it in a couple more years. Don’t be guilty of trending out the recent depreciation into the future.
Don’t get me wrong, its a NICE car, and we would keep it. The DSG with TDI torque is fun, and 43mpg highway rules! I’m even okay with the puff of black smoke I see from it under a hard load.
Mitigating circumstances forces the sale of the car. (sad face)
Even if all cars in the US were traded in for hybrids, I think it’s a fallacy to believe that we could get off of foreign oil imports. Even if switching were to reduce our consumption by 50 percent, a 4% growth rate in the economy would have us back to the same consumption level in 18 years.
My whole problem with the ‘green’ movement is that we aren’t truly trying to save the environment, rather, we are trying to find a way to keep driving cars by ourselves to work, keep ordering crap overnight, and not have to use mass transit.
Here in Seattle there is at least one operation converting VW diesels to run on cooking oil, then marking them up 50% or so. There should be a similar operation in the People’s Rupublic of Austin. Sell it to them.
Carmax may lowball, but not as much as dealers do when they take trade ins. Having a Carmax appraisal in my pocket when I traded a 2003 Accord LX for a Toyota RAV4 last September, got me an extra $1000 in trade in value.
“How wrong are KBB trade-in values on average? Over $2000? This blew me away.”
The Accord was valued at $12,500 by KBB and Edmunds ($13,500 by NADA) at the time, when Carmax bid $12,000. The dealers first bid between $10,000 and $11,000. When I came back with the Carmax bid, I was able to get one of the dealers to match it.
One reason the Online used car services run high on their estimates, maybe that there is a time lag between the transactions they use and the time you get the estimate.
Another factor, at least in my case, is that I traded in the fall. I had bought the Accord in the summer of 2003. When I traded it, it was just over 4 years old. But, it was fall, the new Accord was out, and my car was now 5 years old. Sort of like horses, which are all assigned a birthday of January 1.
America uses crap diesel by comparison
“Used”. In CA and several other states, ULSD is sold. In other states, it is coming.
what the original poster fails to mention (and critical for this argument):
MSRP of the vehicle 2 years ago,
current KBB / Edmunds trade-in value,
and the projected price of the 2009 TDI (due out in 2-6 months depending upon who you believe)…
all VERY important considerations!
As recently as last year, industry rumors had both Honda and Hyundai all gung-ho to import diesel vehicles into the United States.
Recently, I undestand, Hyundai’s Korean bosses apparently nixed the clean diesel for the states.
Honda is dead quiet with regards to when (or if) their clean-diesel Accord will go into production for the states.
I suspect both are le morte’ and only the stubborn Germans will try to make the math work.
The Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive system now costing LESS than a dirty-diesel system (and very probably SIGNIFICANTLY less than a clean diesel system) is possibly the nail in the coffin for diesels in the US. Again. Still. Yet.
Europe has used (about) 0% sulfur diesel for years. America uses crap diesel by comparison.
You’re talking Apples to Oranges!
Those of us who travel in Europe know their ‘clean’ diesel is still way too dirty. No Thanks.
MSRP of the vehicle 2 years ago,
About $28k. TDIs were going for $500-1000 over sticker at the time.
current KBB / Edmunds trade-in value,
KBB: $19.1k
Edmunds: $19.8k
and the projected price of the 2009 TDI (due out in 2-6 months depending upon who you believe)
It should be out in September…and my guess is that $30k for a DSG TDI isn’t out of the question.
SM: ouch – those are high numbers (MSPR / trade in value)…
i guess that’s what comes from buying a 28k jetta in the first place (ie: loaded)
Though, a loaded 09 tdi with dsg may cost 30k, the base model should come in at ~ 21k (add 1k for dsg) and you get 22k.
your tdi depreciation in terms of overall dollars is on par with my 2005 jetta 2.5 value edition (new may 2005: $18.5k, current trade-in: ~ $10.5k with 37k miles)…
too bad on your part. seems like you might have missed out on the tdi resale ‘craze’ by a couple of months…
even though your tdi is loaded (a package 2 given your msrp), i cannot fault businesses for giving you a ‘low-ball’ offer given the cost of an 09 tdi being ~ $22k base – though the base is by no means a stripper…
The issue here isn’t the resale value of diesel powered vehicles. The issue is the owner’s judgement for considering the sale of a vehicle $2-3K below its value.
The only other piece of data we have on said owner’s judgement is that she is dating Sajeev.
;-)
And don’t hold that data against her. :)
A single anecdote means deisel prices are plummeting? Amazing how far those leaps of logic will take you.
I don’t have much to go by, but Carmax quoted me 10.8% less than KBB’s trade in value on my (gas powered) Focus recently. That’s roughly on par with the 11.1% drop you received on the TDI.
We’d need a lot more data to draw any conclusions here, and taking the salesman’s word doesn’t cut it.
KBB and Edmunds are completely worthless. They don’t use actual purchases or sales for their valuations.
The only book I ever use for a vehicle is the MMR (Manheim Market Report). It’s based on millions of transactions and can pretty much tell you right on the button for a late model vehicle. Your credit union should be able to furnish a quote for you. If they can’t, email Robert and I’ll be happy to
Hmmm… maybe I should write an Editorial called “‘Trade-in’ Ignorance”. Between the $300 97′ Escort, $1500 2002 Kia Spectra, and $12,900 2008 Fit Sport I got this week, I sure have plenty of material. If you think those were cheap, you should have seen the lowball offers of the last two before I bought them.
If diesel cars are so evil and if they are so dirty (I like them FWIW) then why aren’t be beating the crap out of the pickups, semi-trucks, construction equipment, trains, and delivery vehicles that all burn diesel???
There are how tiny a number of diesel cars in this country compared to the Macks, Catepillars, Greyhounds, GE locomotives, and John Deere burning thousands and millions of gallons of diesel fuel each day.
I won’t even speculate about the amount of diesel that the US Navy ship I was stationed on (USS Ashland) burned each mile, especially when we were running at full speed with the turbos spooled up (four Colt Industries 16 Cylinder Diesels – think locomotive size engines).
So get off the backs of the little four cylinder cars getting 50+ mpg and let’s talk about some serious diesel consumers!
Steven Lang : The only book I ever use for a vehicle is the MMR (Manheim Market Report)….
Hmmm… maybe I should write an Editorial called “‘Trade-in’ Ignorance”. Between the $300 97′ Escort, $1500 2002 Kia Spectra, and $12,900 2008 Fit Sport I got this week, I sure have plenty of material. If you think those were cheap, you should have seen the lowball offers of the last two before I bought them.
Do it. This is one side of the business many of us need to learn about.
Busbodger,
Keep in mind that half the homes in the US are heated with “oil” which is very similar to diesel.
Continue to clean up the American diesel fuel and get those homes off heating oil and onto something cleaner and more efficient or at least make the houses only partly oil fired.
It seems we really like the go the easiest and cheapest route in America. I think that may be the short term vision that we talk about the car companies being guilty of.
Why not encourage solar, super insulated, ground heat loops more?
Oh I forget, free markets at work… VBG!
Generally speaking you are going to get a better price for a small diesel (Jetta TDI, Liberty CRD) the closer you are to California.
I could sell my 2006 Libery CRD into CA right now for 75-80% of what I paid for it new in 2006.
The Air resources board ban on new sales creates a lot of demand in the used market that supports prices.
Unless you absolutely have to I’d wait a few months until gas prices catch up with or overtake diesel.
With a niche feature like a Diesel or AWD on come cars you are better off selling private party.
Diesel and Hybrids are both good technologies that have promise. They each have strengths and weaknesses, hybrids are stronger in the city, diesels on the highway.
Indeed, I think “diesel depreciation” seems unlikely. A decent used VW diesel is very very hard to find. I can’t remember ever seeing one on a used car lot. They’re not dealing on new ones either.
incitatus :
April 30th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
What happened to the good ol’ common sense in the people of this country?
It’s only common sense if you agree with menno’s underlying assumptions- that failing to cut fuel use will harm our children’s lifestyles, that that the best way to cut oil dependency is by cutting private vehicle fuel use, and that what we need is more important than what we want.
If you disagree with any of those three, or any of the several assumptions I didn’t mention, it’s not common sense.
Read this and enjoy, hybrid talkers.
I keep getting accused of comparing apples to oranges.
Sajeev…isn’t that exactly what you started when comparing a diesel to a hybrid?
One is city help…one lives for highway and power.
But to help with the MPG…use the link and read this (and sorry about the non TTAC link.)
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008/04/vw_jetta_bluetdi_for_the_us_ma.html
Yes, Mj0lnir, it is rather unfortunate that the term Common Sense is an oxymoron, isn’t it?
Because it certainly isn’t common to have much sense.
Just look around the world about you!
I love the TDI’s (regardless of model) but absolutely despise the automatics.
My favorite has been a 10 year old 1998 Jetta TDI that had one owner and a good maintenance history. I bought it for $2870, replaced the ignition switch, a small hose in the ECM, one headlight… and nothing else. That one could stay below 2250 rpm’s, coast down hills for what seemed like forever, and got me nearly 50 mpg combined.
I had to sell it for profit. But I easily could have driven that thing for another 100k and come out well ahead in the overall cost to own category. It’s too bad that my mule trading hobby (a.k.a. flipping cars) require that I remove myself from a steering wheel at the earliest possible opportunity.
ppellico : Sajeev…isn’t that exactly what you started when comparing a diesel to a hybrid?
Excuse me, when did I compare a diesel to a hybrid?
I’m still waiting for you to explain those facts you’ve got to counter this “biased” blog posting, about finicky Diesel trade in values. (NOT hybrids)
steronz : We’d need a lot more data to draw any conclusions here, and taking the salesman’s word doesn’t cut it.
Agreed. But, if all dealers in town are colluding for accelerated depreciation curve for Diesels, its an ugly trend. (not to mention the trade-in blog above this one, mentioning diesels specifically)
I traded in my 2005 Golf TDI 18 months after I bought it for 16,400. In that year and a half I put on around 15K miles (total of 70K) and invested one oil change (it was due another, but not my problem now).
The dealership gave me $15,200. A loss of $1200.
I’m OK with that.
As for diesel in the USA… I tried, and I’ve given up. Diesel is never goign to take off in this country no matter how many enthusiasts and German makers tell us its going to. In the end, I was paying a 30% fuel premium over RUG for a 40% increase in economy. That’s not enough to matter for all of the many other inconvienences.
I had to sell the car out of neccessity (its too small for two car seats and me), but I’m not sad. As I said in the beginning, I managed to more-or-less break as even as one can for the time of ownership.
Maybe 5 years from now will tell a different tale, but at this time and place I’m here to tell you that life with a diesel car wasn’t all that.
Sajeev…others have already explained the error with submitting a saleman’s offer for a diesel and then making it a national trend.
It simply isn’t so.
Any amount of time searching used diesels will show how they hold their value.
As far as you anti diesel slant, if needed, I will go and copy your remarks on other news blogs concerning diesel.
But folks, its OK to like one or the other.
But they are not offering the same.
Hybrids do give tremendous city mpg, but diesels do great and offer the hwy, longevity and power I require.
Oh, and here are two links to help this.
Please read and respond.
First, be honest and tell me which would you REALLY prefer, a Prius or this.
Be honest now, kids…
http://digiads.com.au/car-news/latest-VOLKSWAGEN-news/2009_Volkswagen_Jetta_TDI_SportWagon_Diesel_200711/photos_6.html
OK hybrid vs diesel
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/121734/article.html
Sajeev…others have already explained the error with submitting a saleman’s offer for a diesel and then making it a national trend.
Which is fair, but the more people I talk to in the business, the more the trend becomes valid.
Any amount of time searching used diesels will show how they hold their value.
Over the course of 10 years? Sure.
In the short, term? Absolutely not. Just today I spoke to a ’07 Powerstroke owner (fleet owner for a company) who lost $5000 in value over the past 60 days. Yes, he traded it in for a Triton-powered, 87 octane pickup because he is more sensitive to fuel prices than the monthly payment on his trucks.
As far as you anti diesel slant, if needed, I will go and copy your remarks on other news blogs concerning diesel.
Whatever works for you. As to my “anti-diesel” slant on this blog, I do like diesel trucks to tow my toys around…
BUT:
1. More people get sick of their cars in 5 years (or less) than they do keep them for a longer period of time. We live in a disposable society, even if people here do otherwise.
2. Its common practice to trade at a dealership (to save $1000+ on sales tax) so this is a common concern around the country.
3. The price sensitivity for Diesels in the SHORT TERM is a big problem. Especially on cars, because we as a country are not keen on diesels like Europe. Overall, trucks are a different story.
4. People used to selling cars and using Edmunds/KBB for a guideline will be in for a surprise if they have a Diesel trade in.
5. Things will change in the long term, and the blog will be dated after that.
6. Pre-2008 Diesels are still sooty and smell like farts when you hit the throttle.
As such, there’s nothing wrong with what the blog states, bias or not.
Long term, in most places demand of diesels exceeds supply, KBB notwithstanding. Current diesels aren’t dirty, and diesel is a whopping 50 cents more a gallon than gasoline – big deal. Given the MPG difference, the price would have to be 50% higher before I come out at a net loss. That makes a difference when you drive 20-25K or more per year. I think the depreciation issue is overstated – it matters if you lease or buy a new car every two or three years, but I buy a car and run it for 10-12 years. Most people buy diesels because the power curve and performance are a match for what they’re trying to do, I don’t see that changing.
Sajeev… I’m afraid they’ve got one fact right that you get c onsistently wrong: New passenger diesels aren’t really that dirty, at all. I can’t speak for light duty trucks, and you’re right as soon as people start to dicker around with the system, but out of the gate modern diesel engines really aren’t nearly so dirty. Mine would emit one puff of soot on a cold start, and that was about it.
The smell, on the other hand, is undeniable.
By the way…this IS fun.
I wish we could all gather around a bar on stools and do this unrtil the sun rises.
There is nothing I love to do more than talk cars!
Thanks everybody for the fun.
I wish we could continue this forever!
Paul
Holy Heck..
What is this?????!!!!
http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/priusvert1/1001331957
gfen: Sajeev… I’m afraid they’ve got one fact right that you get c onsistently wrong: New passenger diesels aren’t really that dirty, at all.
Compared to what? An oil burning 1982 Rabbit?
Diesels are still emissions exempt in my home state (Texas) and can’t meet the cleanest air quality standards of gasoline engines.
And they still smell like farts. I like my g/f’s Jetta and my Mom’s E320 TDI (both 2006 models) but they still stink up the garage quicker than any gas engine. I have to turn off my A/C when I’m behind them when they hit it to merge on the freeway. :)
ppellico :By the way…this IS fun….I wish we could continue this forever!
For another day, and another blog. :)