The Wall Street Journal reports that "Chrysler LLC is betting its new Dodge Ram pickup truck, coming this fall, can pull customers from rivals." Dodge is finally offering a crew cab version and is counting on it to for super-sized help. "I don't think there's any question that we can gain market share," said Ken Zangara, a Dodge dealer in Albuquerque, N.M. "The question is how big will the overall market be?" Yeah, that's the question alright! When even the dealers offer qualified optimism for a new product you know things are bad. Dodge has massive overcapacity in trucks with three factories poised to crank out over 600k trucks per year compared to 2007 sales of about 358k units (this year's numbers are even worse). Ram sales tumbled 24 percent so far in 2008, which means Chrysler has 1.5 truck factories too many. UPI and others report a massive glut of used trucks on the market which are both competing against new truck sales and killing trade-in values for potential new truck buyers. Year on year trade-in comparables are down 14 percent. A nose job and crew cab option are not going to lift Dodge out its permanent third wheel status. But not to worry, soon Nissan will get a version of the Ram to not sell.
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The Ram wasn’t a best seller when big trucks with big engines were popular, I can’t see that trend reversing anytime soon.
Chrysler needs a smaller truck in its arsenal. Either a pint-sized Indian/Chinese import or a Ridgelinesque trucklet based on the Patriot/Compass/Calibre chassis.
But not to worry, soon Nissan will get a version of the Ram to not sell.
As if the Titan was selling!
In NJ, I generally see two kinds of Rams: either old and dirty, or shiny and full of aftermarket parts , including generally a wing. More often than not, people driving them don’t use them for work, and I see them as poseur trucks.
Besides the GMC Sierra, it’s the sharpest-looking truck out there. That counts for something, right?
Don’t forget Ford is tossing a new F-150 into the fray this fall. I see blood in the water, and big piles of cash on the hood.
Dodge is finally offering a crew cab version and is counting on it to for super-sized help.
Dodge has been offering crew-cab Rams continuously since the 2002 Ram was introduced. Most Rams sold since then have been crew-cabs.
I don’t know where you are AKM, but here in the great 609 I see just the latter type of Ram or shiny and full of aftermarket parts , including generally a wing
Still, I like the look of the 2009 ‘1995’ Dodge Ram coming out. It’ll be even better in 12-14 months when I can buy the 2009 ‘1995’ Dodge Ram for $8,000 cash new.
I agree with AKM, the Ram Double Cab with the Diesel is the favorite amongst the Urban Cowboy Ego Prop set. Of course with the 4-6″ of lift, giant tires and wheels the cargo bed is so far off the ground that it is effectively worthless.
I’ve always viewed crew cab pickups as Macho Minivans. The often unused cargo bed is just there to remind you that is a truck.
All Chrysler needs to do to have an effective small(er) truck is put a 2007 emissions 2.8 VM diesel in the Dakota with a 6 sp manual. Heck you could even offer it in lieu of the 3.7L base gas engine in the Ram.
The same engine in my aero pig 4WD Jeep gets 25mpg mixed. In a lighter 2WD vehicle with a 6 speed 30mpg would be obtainable.
The crew cab statement was infact stated in the WSJ article.
“In the short term, Chrysler is banking on a first-ever crew-cab version of its Ram to attract new shoppers, said Michael Accavitti, Chrysler’s director of Dodge brand and high-performance-vehicle marketing communication.”
Can we get Michael Accavitti on the phone and ask him what the 2002-2008 four-full-door Rams were if they were not crew-cabs? There were no extended cab models during these years. You’d think that the director of Dodge and High-Performance marketing communication (what a title) would be on top of things better than this.
No delusion like self delusion.
As I said earlier today, trucks were once 10% of the market. They went to 50% of the market. They are headed back to 10%.
If the market is 16 M vehicles a year. That means 1.6 M trucks. If Chrysler can keep 20% of that market, it is 320,000 vehicles.
They best be closing at least one plant. And making sure they have the other two set up for flexible manufacturing. Using one of them to build Titans for Nissan would be a good idea.
@N85523
“Can we get Michael Accavitti on the phone and ask him what the 2002-2008 four-full-door Rams were if they were not crew-cabs?”
I don’t believe that Chrysler actually considered the four-door Ram to be a full crew cab. They marketed them under the same “quad cab” moniker that was used for the previous clamshell door Ram. Instead of tooling up for both an extended cab and a crew cab, Chrysler shot for the midway point and tried to kill two birds with one stone. If you look at four-door Rams from the period, the rear doors are noticeably shorter than those of the competition. They are most comparable to the doors on the current extended cab Tundra.
I like the RAM with a Cummins. But will anyone buy a big truck anymore that really doesn’t need it? And there are a lot of choices…
Chrysler needs to build the JT!
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1857/img1170vn4.jpg
@ Philip Lane
Agreed. Once there was cab, cab-and-a-half, and double cab trucks. Then Dodge split some hairs. The “quad cab” was actually cab-and-three-quarters. The later Mega Cab was 2.25 cabs.
Dodge split hairs with the Dakota as well. The eliminated the single cab in favor of about a cab-and-a-quarter. the current F-150 is similar – even the “regular cab” has small clamshell doors to that extra quarter of a cab.
My greatest dream is that pickups revert to what they once were: simple, relatively efficient work/hauling vehicles. If you’re as old as me, you can remember when pickups had straight sixes and a three-on-the-tree manual transmission. Those workhorses could get 25mpg all day long.
Philip Lane,
Point taken. I’ve always considered a pick-up with four forward-hinged doors to be a crew cab, but Dodge’s current “Quad Cab” does appear to have a shorter rear compartment than the competition.
IF you can find one – look at the Jeep Gladiator pickups (built from 1963 to about 1985ish) and then compare that to the size of current pickup trucks. The Jeep was competitive in size to the concurrent Chevrolet/GMC twins, Ford/Mercury (for Canada) twins, and Dodge/Fargo (for Canada)/DeSoto (for the middle east) triplets, and the International pickup trucks of the era. In fact the Jeeps had a 50/50 split front axle (even on the 4×4’s), front torison bars and a far lower “built to be 4wheel drive” design which enabled ladies to climb up without showing too much leg (remember, we’re talking the EARLY 1960’s here).
The point is, the Jeep pickup had 230 cubic inches, weighed in at less than 6 million pounds, and didn’t take the room of an 18 wheeler on the road, as most “normal” size pickups do now.
Maybe it’s time for a return to basics.
What about the Mega Cab?
How about a super mega mega cab with seating for 8 and a 2ft bed?
If Chrysler is lucky then they can halt the decline of their share of a rapidly shrinking market. While more power may make the new Ram the ultimate urban cowboy overcompensation vehicle an engine with better mileage would have probably been a better bet.
You can see the vintage Jeep pickup truck here:
http://trucks.about.com/od/classictrucks/l/bl_1963_jeep.htm
It still looks good today. I like trucks which look like trucks!
Dodge has made a decent truck but it cannot sell enough to save itself. I have a 1998 LB with an 8 that is still pushing the original transmission and it started life as a mule for a roofing company 130,000+ miles ago. May not be a 6 with a floor shift like some purists claim they want to see, but mine is still going, AC and PS work, body and interior integrity is intact, window handles mystify young riders, it pulls various boats, hauling dogs, making trips to Cedar Bluff at 12 mpg (with a tail wind) and whatever else my family and neighbors need to get at Lowes/HD.
Warranty be damned, I see a lot of new 4 door Rams around north GA and western Alabama, even though the .8 manufacturer does not have a dealer in every place with a city charter north of I-20 like the other 2.
The reason has to be price and the macho/semi looking face. If you ever go to a Dodge truck forum, people are bragging about fixing blown plenum gaskets, awful mileage, bad AC diffusers, cracking dash boards, transmission replacements, accessories and debadging. That last one is an interesting sub-culture item the cubicle dwellers who want a diesel VW might not identify with.
Do not even try asking an owner about the dealers.
Unless every utility company and local government decides to put their fleets on a one year rotation, the Ram is toast.
Put a fork in them, they are history, they just haven’t announced it yet.
SherbornSean :
What about the Mega Cab?
But that was the Mega Cab. Before that was the Quad Cab. Now they’re going to sell a Crew Cab. Their crack marketing and product planning staffs probably spent months coming up with that.
As a diesel (Duramax) truck owner and user, I consider the Dodge to be a lukewarm truck with a great diesel engine. At least the 5.9 Cummins was a great engine. The current enlarged Cummins has an enormous appetite for fuel and even the Dodge bigots I eat breakfast with admit that current reliability is not that good.
The above posters were correct in that the current Dodge is not a full crew cab, although it has a bit more rear legroom than my Silverado extended cab.
Increase market share in these times? Oh yeah, and the flux capacitor makes time travel possible…
I did a summer internship out in Auburn Hills back in 1999. One highlight of my tour o’ duty in Finance was a tour of the Design Center including an intro to designer Freeman Thomas. He had already designed the New Beetle and Audi TT. He was working on two prototypes at the time – the 300C (already long in the tooth) and a really cool “microtruck” (axed before even hitting the autoshow circuit). It had a bulldog snub nose, wheels pushed out way to the end and a narrow, compact frame.
Dang shame – they’d be really well positioned with a 4cyl shorty truck in this market. I’m actually really surprised that Hyundai/Kia haven’t intro’d a basic pickup
Is this the new Dodge/Chery crewcab Ram?
It seems the market today might be ready for a brand new version of the utilitarian Toyota/Datsun pickups of the 70’s. For most folks working with tools, the addition of a roof rack makes the “little’ half-ton pickups a pretty decent work truck.
I read the original print piece in the WSJ today and couldn’t help but wonder “What were they thinking?” to proceed with this “new” pickup. Same old, same old and for whatever the market share is, Ford and Chevy will likely continue to dominate the full-size market with their quite decent products. For those willing to drive a midsize, the Tacoma gets good reviews from its owners and the reinforced plastic bed is an excellent design.
They’re trying to get the biggest slice of the pizza, but nobody told them the pizza is now just one of those Bagel Bites.
“A nose job and crew cab option are not going to lift Dodge out its permanent third wheel status.”
Just to bring the TRUTH to this discussion it should be pointed out that the new Ram is all new, as in new generation. This is not a mid cycle refresh. Or even a heavy modification (That would be the so called “new” Ford F150 that is about to come out).
Uh, how come no comments on the interior? It’s supposed to be light years ahead of what they have now. This should be a forshadowing of the new interiors for their future product.
Also I want to point out that this replacement was well under way before the current surge in energy prices (just like Ford’s and Chevy’s programs). The Ram is now the oldest truck on the market. It’s their turn to update that’s all. All pickups are remodeled on a 6-8 year cycle. We may see a lengthening of that to 10 years now that less will be sold.
Toyota has a new truck. And it has a larger percent of a smaller market. Anyone one criticising Toyota for chasing a larger piece of a smaller pie?
The current enlarged Cummins has an enormous appetite for fuel and even the Dodge bigots I eat breakfast with admit that current reliability is not that good.
That’s very disappointing. From what I understand the 5.9 Cummins was a great engine, probably the single biggest strength of the old Ram.
“Anyone one criticizing Toyota for chasing a larger piece of a smaller pie?”
Actually, yes. Many have questioned the wisdom of Toyota making an over $2B investment to build a new factory in San Antonio to go after the shrinking US large truck market. The difference is that Toyota can afford to make some sub-optimal decisions while Chrysler is not in such a position.
I don’t think anyone, even inside Chrysler, expects the redesign to vault Dodge trucks up into anything even close to parity with Ford and Chevy/GMC in truck sales. Thus the permanent third wheel characterization. Toyota is still in a distant fourth place and the Nissan Titan was such a failure that Nissan is quietly turning over production to Chrysler’s Mexico truck factory. I wonder how you say Hemi in Japanese?
Actually no. All the criticism I’ve heard is that the truck has had teething problems and is not the usual Toyota bedrock reliability. As for having a true full size pickup, Toyota was admired for going after the “last bastion” of the Detroit 3. All the talk was about how this would put pressure on the domestics. I never saw a comment like “how can Toyota justify this with gas prices rising and fuel economy becoming a concern for customers”.
Of course now might be the best time to get into the truck market, ironically. It might be better to have a product in the market ready to scoop up market share when the other producers go belly-up. 2 billion is about 2 months profit for Toyota, so its not like they are in any danger from the move, and they are positioned to be the one of the few truck manufacturers not in Chapter 11 soon enough.
@windswords:
Actually, I heard both. Only people that didn’t want to hear it didn’t.