Pickuptrucks.com reports that skyrocketing diesel prices have hit oil burners' resale values harder than their gas-powered counterparts. According to Blackbook, the value of 2005-07, 3/4 to one-ton diesel pickups have dropped nearly $6k since January; gas-engined models lost only $3k. Up until the recent fuel-price unpleasantness, lower diesel prices and higher efficiency justified the higher entry cost to diesel ownership. Today, that higher initial cost– increased by new emissions standards compliance– has taken diesel sales (and resale values) from "suck" to "craptastic." Hundreds of Workers building Cummins, Duramax and Powerstroke diesel engines have been laid off either temporarily or permanently. Pickuptrucks.com tries valiantly to end on a happy note, suggesting that diesel prices could regain sanity if developing countries cut subsidies. There's also talk of a new generation of diesel half-ton pickups that might just rescue the day. Meanwhile, unless you have a fryolater to tank from, diesel is dead. Just ask the latest round of striking truckers…
Find Reviews by Make:
I sold my 2005 TDI back to the dealership 18 months after I bought it used for $16,400 and received $14,500. They currently have it stickered on their lot for $18,900 a month and a half later.
Factoring in the tax credit for the trade in on the replacement car, it cost me about $600 to enjoy record high diesel prices for that 18 months. I assume the next guy won’t be so lucky. Especially as its about due for the problems to start.
I checked autotrader.com the other day, and my 2003 Jetta GL TDI can apparently still be sold for around $11000 to $13000. I paid $19000 new for it in June of 2003. Despite high diesel prices, it looks like older TDIs are still holding their resale value well. I expect it to continue even with introduction of the new models, since the older VE pump TDIs are much simpler than the new common rail versions.
I paid $4.87/gallon for diesel last night, but the guy at the next pump over was paying $4.10/gallon for his Exploder Sport Trac. Guess who has a lower cost per mile even with a 77 cent price difference?
Diesel is just over $5 a gallon in central Ohio now while regular gas is hovering at $3.99.
That extra mileage savings is now effectively eliminated here.
brettc: Despite high diesel prices, it looks like older TDIs are still holding their resale value well.
Nope, go try and trade it in. Been there, done that.
I think the TDI market is still strong, provided you sell on Craigslist, not at trade-in. But diesel trucks are screwed, I’ve seen them plummet in value by $5000 over the course of 60 days. (see link above)
And don’t forget the incentives on ALL trucks today: here in Texas, Ford is offering A-plan pricing to everyone PLUS $3500 cash back on F-series. Talk about lowering your monthly payments from your current Diesel!
I’m about to list my 6 cylinder gas powered F-150 for sale, with a stick shift and 2WD it gets close to 20 MPG. Compare that to the V-8 4WD monsters and it’s practically a green vehicle.
Tell you what, I will gladly trade, even a straight across swap, my 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 gasoline powered pickup with ~50k miles on it for a Dodge or a GMC/Chevy Diesel pickup with up to 100k miles. The cost of Diesel at the pump is irrelevant to me… I’d love to have my whole home fleet running on oil rather than gasoline. So as far as I’m concerned this is all good news to me.
–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
I suppose now everyone will criticize Lutz et al. for not pursuing a longterm diesel-powered passenger car program. I seem to recall lots of sarcasm, not too long ago, about a certain Detroit automaker lacking the will and foresight to develop viable diesel vehicles other than full-size trucks.
Diesel pickups serve a very specific niche. The buyers invariably use them for heavy work, such as the construction trades, where the torque is of real benefit.
I would expect these trucks to perform worse than the norm, because their buyers are among those hardest hit by the economic downturn. With home sales declining and a lack of financing, construction has slowed down. No construction, no truck.
It seems that many of the 3/4 ton diesels were bought, at least in our area, by posers who thought looking and sounding like a Mack truck was cool. But now they can’t afford to commute in the monsters and are dumping them on the used market. Many are also are used by the recreational 5th-wheel RV-ers, and suddenly spending a good part of the year driving your house around isn’t affordable for many of them.
Many are also are used by the recreational 5th-wheel RV-ers, and suddenly spending a good part of the year driving your house around isn’t affordable for many of them.
Hey, at least THOSE trucks were bought to tow something, even if it was just recreational. It’s the truck driver who treats his crew cab truck in the same vein as a mid size car who’s feeling the heat right now.
So how expensive is diesel in the States these days? Up here in Canada, it’s certainly higher than it used to be, but it’s still somewhere in between regular and premium. In fact, after the last jump in gas prices around town, diesel is currently just slightly cheaper than regular unleaded, but I’d imagine that won’t last.
Isn’t a large part of the Diesel price problem a result of the switch to low-sulfur formulations?
And isn’t a large part of the gas price problem a result of the shortage of the anti-pollution additives needed to make summer formulation gas?
Around here it’s $4.48 diesel versus $3.88 low grade gas if memory serves me. It is $3.98 for mid grade and $4.08 for high octane gas. The mix at stations around here are 87-89-93. I never buy diesel so I’m not sure the octane on it.
dhanson865: Diesel is not measured for octane. Cetane is the relevant term. Additionally Diesel is not sold in “grades” like gasoline anyway. There are 6 grades of fuel oil used in various forms of transportation and heating, which all fall under the term of “Diesel” but most on-the-road fuel is “#2”
–chuck
bunkie :
June 10th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Isn’t a large part of the Diesel price problem a result of the switch to low-sulfur formulations?
And isn’t a large part of the gas price problem a result of the shortage of the anti-pollution additives needed to make summer formulation gas?
1. Landcrusher has reassured us many times that Diesel production will ramp up in 1-2 years when more processing plants go online.
2. The worst part about gas prices is the number of formulas for different states and regions. Last I heard it was over 70 types of gas: summer, winter, and different regions.
Thanks for remembering Sanjeev. I am sticking by that prediction. If you follow the oil company news, you will see that there is a lot going on to grow diesel refining in the US right now.
The oil business isn’t known very well by outsiders. The stuff I hear from friends in the business would alleviate a lot of worries in the market. Course, it might also cut into the business’ bottom line.
In my area, diesel fuel is, on average, $0.90 a gallon more than RUG.
Spare a thought for the truckers – they don’t have the option of going with gas/petrol.
At today’s rate in the UK – diesel @ £1.30 a litre – a Mercedes Actros truck costs over $3,500 to fill up.
Pch101: Diesel pickups serve a very specific niche. The buyers invariably use them for heavy work, such as the construction trades, where the torque is of real benefit.
Actually, the larger construction companies and utility fleets have largely avoided buying diesel pickups and 1-3 ton units all along, because the cost effectiveness wasn’t there, given the $5-7k mark-up for the diesels.
I can assure you that thes big gasoline V8 and V10’s have more than enough torque to do anything required of them. I’m with John Horner here, the bulk of the diesel pickups were bought by macho posers, and now they’re…driving their girlfriends’ red Grand Ams.
Diesel prices may have a price ceiling, because at some price point people will start using coal-to-liquids technology to create diesel fuel from coal. The carbon emissions of running that diesel will be far more than running a gasoline engine. With that twist of fate, high oil prices are actually going to increase the rate of carbon dioxide emissions and other types of pollution.
VW TDI’s are selling for insane amounts here in the Atlanta market. I have a friend who works at a local Toyota dealer selling used cars. Last week, he moved an ’05 Passat TDi with 115k miles for $19,500.
If anyone has a TDi they’re thinking of selling, they’d be smart to do it before VW rolls out the new ones.
It does suck that diesel prices are substantially higher than petrol. I’m curious to see what impact that will have on all the great new diesels being introduced in the next year or so. Some of the best ones (BMW 3-series and Acura TSX come to mind) will perform as well as their petrol counterparts.
If there is no long-term fuel cost savings to offset the initial purchase price, will anyone buy them? The additional torque is a selling point for diesels in trucks, but doubt that alone will do it for car buyers…although the TSX can really use it. Longevity is also a welcome benefit of diesel engines, but that would probably be more important to a VW or Honda buyer than Acura, BMW or Mercedes.
I suppose we’ll know soon enough…
My Jeep Liberty CRD seems to be still holding its value ok here on the left coast. Thank you CARB for suppressing supply.
Compared to 87-O Gas it is still slightly cheaper to run right now than the gas version of the Liberty.
With both the CRD and the TDI you will get royally hosed on trade-in. The pricing methodology that dealers use really gives short shift to diesels when they share a platform with a gas variant the depreicates.
I would not want to own a post 2007 emissions diesel with its higher under hood temps, increased complexity and lower fuel economy.
Using the early 80s adaption of emissions control technology on gas engines as a benchmark it will be 3-5+ years until they the engine OEMs figure out how to meet emissions with the same economy.
Larger construction & Utility fleets also have real class 5-8 trucks and other equipment for when they have to move some serious stuff.
It’s funny to see all my fellow TDI’ers jumping to the defense of their favorites; after all, the sole reference for this story is PICKUPTRUCKS.com.
That said, I’ll talk about TDI prices, because I have no idea about, or interest in, pickup prices. I’ve been astonished lately to see what’s happened to the resale large gas-powered cars. Recently I saw an ’03 Passat Wagon stickered at $8,900, just about what I paid for my used ’02 Beetle TDI. When new, the Passat sold for about $10K more than my car. Checking random listings tells me I might have paid up to $12K for my Beetle TDI if I hadn’t shopped so carefully (picking a lime-green, anti-macho car that was languishing on a lot in rural Texas). Yesterday I saw an ’01 Audi Allroad, begging for $12k in the rear window. Those were Audi’s flagships, selling new for over $40k, meaning you could have bought two Beetle TDIs for their price, back in the day.
My, how the mighty have fallen!
P.S.- In the interest of clarity and truthiness, let’s establish a new measure of fuel economy in practice. Instead of quoting us your fuel price and, separately, your mpg, let’s all do the math before posting.
Here’s the simple formula: Price per gallon of your recommended fuel (gas or diesel), divided by average mpg= the fuel cost to drive one mile
For my car, today, that computes to $4.60 divided by 42 mpg= 11 cents per mile… if anybody’s interested. I bought the TDI to replace a Forester (hardly a gas hog). It got 25 mpg on mid-grade, which now sells for about $4.10 here in Colorado. That comes out to 16 cents per mile. When I hitch up the trailer (rarely), that drops to 18 mpg, which equals 28 cents per mile.
Do the math for yourself, and it cuts through a lot of clutter and confusion about fuel prices, etc.
Let’s see.. By your theory, and today’s prices:
My TDI cost 14.4c mile, the Mazda5 which replaced it costs 15.8c mile. This doesn’t include the cost for the cetane booster added to every tank of diesel fuel, which probably pushes it closer to 15c/mile.
On top of it, I’ve got vastly more room in a car that I didn’t have to pay a premium to purchase a diesel engine in (which figure in 2006 when I bought it was about 2K more than an equivilent gasser). That’s another 500 gallons of gasoline, or 12,820 miles at today’s rate. Considering the same car is being sold at a $5K premium over a similar gasser, which is utter stupidity.
Springing to the defence of my old TDI? Hardly. Matter of fact, I’ll be the first in line to point out the incredible “smugness” combined with the utter hypocrasy of the TDI crowd.
Maybe in a few years when the oil prices settle back into normalcy diesel will make sense. At this stage, unless you do an inorderinate amount of highway mileage, its a mistake.