The Wall Street Journal carries a rare interview with Honda CEO Takeo Fukui. Ever the cagey character, Fukui claims to be completely uninterested in the fact that his company just passed Chrysler for the number four slot in the U.S. sales race. "It doesn't really matter if you come in fourth or fifth or first. What's important for us is that our production is going at full capacity and production is balanced with sales." Yeah right, the former Honda motorcycle race team manager doesn't care about the score. When the subject is the delicate matter of how Toyota pulled the green carpet out from under Honda's environmental image, Fukui turns a bit more… combative. "Honda's image was better but has evened out with [Toyota] because of the strong image of one single model, the Prius, which Honda feels is a problem. Next year, we will come up with a dedicated hybrid vehicle. We feel this model will have to overwhelm and overtake Prius. That is key for us." (The hyrdogen fuel cell-powered Clarity? Not so much.) Ladies and gentlemen, start your electric engines!
Find Reviews by Make:
Read all comments
As I’ve said before, people want advanced technology to come in a distinctive wrapper. Preferably one that looks “futuristic.” Honda was too slow to realize this. Now, whether Toyota realized this or lucked into it I don’t know.
The Insight didn’t look futuristic enough?
I just want it to look good. It doesn’t need to look all space-age or whatever. Hell, if they could give me a hybrid that looks and drives like my TSX, I’d be first in line…
I’d add people want [their hybrid] in a stylish package that still is usable as a daily driver. The Honda Insight came to market first and was surely more futuristic than the original Prius sedan (anyone remember that…oh thats when Toyota learned distinctive sells), but aside from city commuting it was worthless as a daily driver.
Well, the Insight had that part down. So I guess you’re right, Honda did realize that part, in a way.
The Insight failed because it only had two seats.
If Honda had offered a Civic Hybrid with the styling of the Insight, they’d have been more competitive with the Prius.
Maybe buyers also realized that the Toyota system made more extensive use of the “hybrid” bits?
# the duke :
June 16th, 2008 at 9:56 am
I’d add people want [their hybrid] in a stylish package that still is usable as a daily driver. The Honda Insight came to market first and was surely more futuristic than the original Prius sedan (anyone remember that…oh thats when Toyota learned distinctive sells), but aside from city commuting it was worthless as a daily driver.
That’s my (all aluminium) daily driving sports car you’re dissing. It’s the Porsche 356 of the 21st century – only better.
OK I was asked to take my Prius to an alternative transporatation show in town, and agreed to do so since none of the car dealers had any hybrids available (all sold out / 6 month waiting list on Prius’s again). So I went and got a few brochures from my Toyota salesman and also wheeled over to see the Honda salesman that I know, asked for some brochures (he was out, but got some in time). He knows I love my Prius, but that he has a chance to possibly sell us a hybrid in a year (when the wife’s lease comes up).
Anywhooooo, the Honda salesman showed me a color rendering (official drawing) in proper perspective and size relationship, which he said was the as-unyet named Prius competitor from Honda.
SPOILER ALERT: The car looks like a Prius with a Honda grill. Five door hatchback, similar monoflow lines.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I guess.
Not that I’m trash-talking on Honda any more than Mr. Fukui was truly trash-talking on Toyota. They are in competition, after all!
But as far as I was concerned, for the downtown show, I simply discussed hybrids in general and handed out any brochures anyone was interested in (and business cards from both Toyota and Honda salesmen).
Michael,
I don’t know if that’s entirely an accurate comment. I think the Prius sells well in large part because it’s a more practical hybrid than anything Honda makes:
* the Accord wasn’t practical (no hatch), efficient (high-mileage, even if it was high-power) or luxurious enough (a hybrid TL might have been smarter).
* the Civic is poorly packaged. The trunk is tiny, poorly shaped and nonexpandable; the rear seat is also quite cramped. The mileage is good, but not as good as the Prius
* the Insight wasn’t practical at all. It was a technology exercise.
Honda misjudged the market in the same way GM did. To be successful, a hybrid has to have mass-market appeal; Honda’ models were either fleet (Civic) or boutique. Toyota’s (Highlander, Prius, Camry) are much more livable, and those that aren’t (GS450h, LS600hL) have very high margins. The Prius is the best of the lot: very smartly packaged, very efficient and performs well enough for it’s target market.
Saying that it’s down to looks, I think, ignores the very good job Toyota has done at product planning in this market. It looks good, but I think Toyota could have hybridized the Matrix and seen similar sales.
You’re right that Honda screwed up in understanding the market (much like GM did, but in a different direction). A hybrid CR-V, RDX, Element or even Odyssey would’ve sold very well because there’s an inclination in this market to practically-packaged vehicles.
A lot of people desperately WANT to believe that the Prius only succeeded because of looks, but that’s quite obviously not the case. I shopped both; and don’t particularly care about looks.
HCH: A fine daily commuter. Useless as a family car due to smaller rear seat, and non-foldable rear seat.
Prius: A fine daily commuter, gets better mileage than the HCH at similar cost. Works great as a family car.
QED.
The Prius started out slowly selling – it took time for the public to catch up on its benefits. Toyota did make it look unique and it was much more utilitarian (could transport 4 adults somewhat comfortably). Honda’s Civic Hybrid was their answer to the Prius but it was not unique from the already efficient Civic. Honda then went down the road of making performance hybrids which failed miserably (Accord Hybrid).
menno: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I guess.”
Aerodynamics redefines style when the chief goal is mpg.
The Prius’ success is (mostly) the combination of of 1.) the most advanced hybrid system (Honda’s IMA has so far been a “mild hybrid”; 2.) a practical package; and 3.) a distinctive wrapper. If any one of those three had not been there, it would have been somewhat less successful.
Hmmmm a 2 seater with great gas mileage (insight) versus a 4 seater (Prius) that gets great gas mileage versus a 5 seater (Hybrid Accord) that gets ok mileage. Yeah its the looks that makes the Prius a success. Give me a break.
Make a 45 MPG car that looks like the Aztek and it will sell as well as the Prius. Its practical affordable and gets great gas mileage. Yet how is it that people claim the Prius sells because it makes a green statement.
I think “trash talking” is an unjustified exaggeration.
Honda makes it clear that this is a strategic win that they want. They didn’t say there’s anything wrong with the Prius or Toyota’s strategy.
All I see is the CEO of one company saying they are going to build a better product than their competitor. I don’t see much “rubbishing” here.
Katie-Agree completely. Sound pretty low key to me.
More of “hey we dropped it and have to make up ground and will do it” than trash.
Competition is great for us, the consumer.
Bunter
“SPOILER ALERT: The car looks like a Prius with a Honda grill. Five door hatchback, similar monoflow lines.”
There really are not many shapes which optimize aerodynamic performance, maximize passenger space and provide a good load space. A four door aerodynamic hatchback is pretty much the only solution which hits all three requirements. Did you ever notice how similar all current generation airplanes of a given size look?
Bunter1,
I also like the way Honda admit that they have lost ground and need make up the distance with no prompting.
Can’t see that happening in Detroit any time soon….
My experience with Japanese executives is that their statements are much more polite in tone than that of typical American executives, yet their competitive instincts are strong than those of blustering fools like Lutz. I’ve worked with many of both types. “Trash talk” is obviously hyperbole, but the point is that this is what it sounds like when a Japanese executive lays down a rhetorical gauntlet. Personally, I like the Japanese way much better. If I never hear another expletive laden rant from an American business executive I will be a happy camper :).
I think that’s great, as the Prius is one ugly car.
Although Honda vehicles are better looking, they have always reserved their better looking designs for Acura.
The Prius succeeded because it got close to the Insight’s mileage but seated five comfortably. The Hybrid Civic is smaller and gets worse mileage than the Prius. The Prius is simply the best hybrid out there. Looks may be a factor, but even ignoring looks, it’s the best of the bunch on a practical level.
I know that the Insight was not for everyone, but I’ll bet it would have worked for many more people than one might think (I’m looking at you there driving around with your backseat empty 98% of the time).
Anyway, I enjoy driving my exotic little “technology exercise”.
Shouldn’t that be “start your electric motors”?
As car buyers we will all win from this friendly rivalry between Toyota and Honda.
Given that the Insight was a roughly decade old design I wonder what a 2nd generation would be capable of mileage wise?
I agree that Honda had some duds with the “Muscle Hybrid” accord and the 1st gen Civic. The 2nd gen Civic is a lot closer to the Prius.
Of course the regular Civic is superior to the Corolla.
Of course Toyota is about to raise the bar again with the 3rd Prius.
@ghillie
Wasn’t trying to dis the Insight, if it works for you that’s great. I meant to convey that fact that most people either think they need or do need a car with more than two seats. The Miata, er MX-5, is a great car but will never be more than a niche product for obvious reasons.
On a side note, I often found it amusing the second gen hatchback Prius sold better than the three-box precursor, defying the American paradigm that hatches don’t sell. But people that won’t buy a wagon (AWD or not) will buy SUV. Tell me again how 6 more inches of ground clearance doesn’t make it a wagon?
All this talk of the Insight being impractical is balderdash. You guys don’t need a hatch. Every Prius I’ve ever seen had one, maybe two occupants and nothing loaded in the back. If you have something large to carry, just rent a Matrix.
@quasimondo:
Two seats=not practical
The Prius has appeal as a family car that the Insight just couldn’t match. Fine for a young couple just starting out, but when Junior comes, it falls flat on its face. Every time.
Honda dumped all it’s eggs in one basket(FCX). They have nothing electric or for the plug in hybrid front. They were first(Insight), now they are last.
Coming soon:
Volt
Plug in Prius
Plug in Escape
The competition:
Mitsubishi MiEV
Nissan EV
Subaru R1e, G4e
The plug in just seems like a stop gap and a pacifier/insurance/security blanket initially until the range is increased in all electric.
An all electric Volt to cut costs and compete on both fronts?!
Honda is too busy making everything else.
Also they tend to lead a market, than sell on their name and coast. For example., their outboard engines blew away the competition ten years ago. Now several companies make great four stroke outboards. Ditto for their generators. Ditto for their lawnmowers. Is a 1.5L four banger from 1992 that much different from 2008? My dads base 1992 Civic gets 53MPG highway!!!(standard, no mods, synthetic oil, yes he babies it, yes it is a smaller and less safe car)
Honda are good at engineering but they do it in spurts. If they had half the passion that (say) BMW do they could produce a dominant product to beat the Prius. They just never thought that the Hybrid market would hit so fast. Clarity??? Come on, everybody knows that Hydrogen is decades away, if that soon.
The main thing that Honda makes is money.
Repeat after me, Hydrogen is an energy store not an energy source. You get out less energy than you put into making it.
Its this return on energy investment that makes Petrol, Diesel and LPG such excellent fuels.
Given we are just on the limits of leccy generating power now where is the extra power for volume manufacturing of Hydrogen going to come from exactly ?
I agree with the comments about Priora on the road only having a driver and (maybe) one passenger, thus the waste of capacity.
I’d love to have an Insight for most of my daily commuting, especially when I have to do those 40-mile round trips to the other end of town once or twice a week.
But in any given week, 0 to 20% of my driving time is spent transporting the guys and gals to lunch, hauling mulch, yard equipment, paint, or chemicals, and so forth.
For as long as I like to keep a vehicle (6 years or so), I figured that the Prius would serve me well for 99% of my driving, wheras an Insight would serve me well for 80% of my driving.
Mathematically, the Prius may not make sense with those numbers, but to me, it was worth the extra money, especially when considering the cost of rentals or the intangible cost of imposing on friends or family for use of their larger vehicles.
As for the Insight, which I did like…I think Honda passed up a great opportunity.
1. Icky colors. Pea-green? The red was nice, but it took them way too long to offer blue.
2. IMA only shut off at stops if you didn’t use AC. Hypermilers on Greenhybrid.com would get as much as 80-100 MPG and some would pride themselves on driving with no aircon. Okay, the milage was great, but who wants to arrive all stinky?
3. I and everybody I knew hated the rear tire skirts. Yeah, same as on the EV-1.
4. Little-to-no trunk space.
5. Honda dealers never carried stock. I wanted to test drive one, but was told at three dealerships, I’d have to make a down payment and have one delivered….say WHAT?
6. Honda should never have allowed their Insight to appear in that depressing enviro-disaster movie a few years ago. You know, the one that changed the “Global Warming” term to “Climate Change.” I think that flick was damaging, especially since they used the icky pea-green Insight. It relegated the Insight to the “greenie-freak” category.