As the first reviews of the new Hyundai rear wheel-drive Genesis luxury sedan hits the nets and mags, let's check the "value proposition." The 280-horse V6 version stickers for $33k. Your thirty large buys you an Aisin six speed auto (you didn't expect a stick shift in a Lexus-fighter, did you?), six airbags, alphabet soup safety equipment, heated power leather seats (ahem, BMW), auto headlights,and automatic dual climate control. The V6 delivers 18/27 mpgs, which is a pretty impressive number when compared to front wheel-drive cars like the 19/26 V6 Altima. Some $38k puts the 375hp V8 in your driveway. Fuel economy is only marginally worse at 17/25. If you're willing to part with a paltry seven ponies, the 4.6-liter V8 runs on regular (87 octane) gas. And, of course, the V8 comes with more toys: uprated leather, a wood steering wheel and so on. With this kind of Acura "everything standard" pricing, these cars go from good deal to outright bargain. A comparably equipped CTS stickers at well over $40k. On the other hand, a Cadillac's a Cadillac. This is a Hyundai. Which is beating the snot out of Cadillac in the U.S. sales charts. Accent sales jumped 70 percent in June. Elantra and Sonatas are up. Even the luxury-oriented Azera is holding steady. (Hyundai's SUV and minivan sales evaporated along with everyone else's.) As for the Genesis, time will tell.
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I expect to be running out of ’88 528es around 2018. This looks like a real good replacement, provided it lasts that long.
C&D recently did a preview test for the Genesis. The cost for the test model? $42K for the V8! I just can’t see the average Lexus/BMW/Infiniti cross shopper laying down that much cash at the typical Hyundai dealership. Especially when the car will be worth half that in 3 years. For that much money, I’m heading overseas for a 528i/535i courtesy of BMW European Delivery.
Hyundai has to be losing money on this, right? Does anyone know how much?
I’m not insulting the car. As it is, it seems like a great bargain, but with all the content and the fact the it is a ground-up new platform, with a brand new engine, Hyundai has to be taking a bath on this, right?
The customer will be taking the bath. 1st you have to suffer through the Hyundai dealer experience – where they are more used to credit challenged customers than luxury buyers, then you’ll take a huge bath on depreciation to boot. Ouch! VW Phaeton anyone?
These prices were released weeks ago. I got them into TrueDelta’s database immediately. So they’re available here on TTAC as well. You can run some thorough comparisons by starting with the box in the right sidebar.
MattVA: yeah, they’re taking a bath. Maybe not so much on the V6, but to develop a new V8 then sell it in low volume–GM can’t seem to afford to do that…
And if the transplants can build nice cars with good looks and decent quality why can’t the domestics?
Maybe it is time to hire college grads from Asian countries and break up the good ole’ boy network in Detroit?
not bad when compared with cars of similiar ‘size’
a poor man’s e-class, a6, lexus GS, etc…
Is this really a newly developed V8? Hyundai has had V8s for quite some time, but they’ve never brought one to the US.
@Orian:
Yes, the Tau is a brand new engine. It replaces the Omega V8, which I think actually had Mitsubishi origin at some point.
@Others:
I don’t think the idea is to compete against the E-Class with the Genesis. I think the idea is to compete with the Avalon, and to tell Avalon buyers “look, you could have the Avalon, or you could have a cheaper E-Class.”
Right car, wrong time.
What’s up with Hyundai not being able to sort out the nasty overlap between themselves and Kia?
Accent/Rio
Elantra-Tiburon/Spectra-Forte
Sonata/Optima-Magentis
Azera/Amanti
Entourage/Sedona
Tucson/Sorrento
Veracruz/Borrego (ish)
About the only cars that don’t directly compete are the Genesis and Rondo; the Sportage and Santa Fe are also a little distinct. Even if the intent is to appease Hyundai dealers who want Accents and Elantras to sell, this all comes across as the same kind of folly that’s killing GM.
Hyundai needs to sort this out and fast.
On an unrelated note, anyone know how Rondo sales are doing? I can see the trucks and vans tanking, but that car in particular must be doing well in this climate.
“leather power leather seats”?
Are those power leather power leather seats? :-)
justin:
doesn’t the Azera compete more directly with the Avalon?
I think that the Genesis is for people who don’t really care too much about brand, just the car features and that it can go from a-b in comfort with enough performance for everyday driving…
using true-delta, this thing is 10-20k ‘cheaper’ than many other rwd ‘mid-sized’ V6 luxury…
@psarhjinian:
Rondo sales are down big time.
June 2007 – 4,139
June 2008 – 2,172
I attribute it to (1) most people not realizing how useful it is; (2) It’s ugly; (3) mileage is OK but nothing special – 18/26 with the you-need-it V6.
Busbodger,
Bright Asian engineers would run in the same failed management as our current bright American engineers are running into. If you want to replace something at the domestics it is the management, not the designers or engineers.
How do you expect you engineers to come up with anything good when you have some MBA wonk saying “This idea will not produce positive NPV. Make more cheap interiors.”?
Here’s a compo of the V8 Genesis and an E550:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive.shtml
@Paul:
That’s linked in the first line of the blog post.
psarhjinian :
About the only cars that don’t directly compete are the Genesis and Rondo; the Sportage and Santa Fe are also a little distinct.
I think the Sportage competes more directly with the Tucson since they’re prett much built on the same Elantra-based platform.
The Santa Fe and Sorento aren’t that much related because the Sante Fe is based on the Sonata’s platform while the Sorento is more body-on-frame with a live axle out back.
I see Hyundai/Kia as Honda/Acura…..very loose comparison mind you.
Regarding the Genesis, Hyundai’s intention I think was to appeal to the same kind of person who shops around for an Azera but just so happens to have more money to spend. The Azera is a pretty nice car, but when time comes to upgrade it usually takes them away from the showrooms. Hyundai’s aim to eliminate that with the Genesis. All the classic luxury attributes are there: RWD, V6/V8 power, supple chassis, Hyundai quality (virtually on par with the Japanese) plus an outstanding warranty.
It looks like I got the Sorrento and Sportage mixed up. My bad. I wonder if that happens to buyers and/or Kia’s marketing department?
I still worry, though: unlike Honda/Acura, there’s a lot of crossover (and a lot of crossovers! ba-doom-ching!) between both brands. That Hyundai is likely to get a new Tiburon while Kia gets the Borrego, followed by the Forte only seems to emphasize the problem: which brand is the premium one? The economy one? The sporty one? The answer: both.
Pity about the Rondo. I drove the four-cyl and it’s adequate for 95% of the tasks I might throw at it. Sure, it’s probably slow, but so were a lot of cars in the 1980s and we all survived.
I think this car will actually signal the launch of a new Genesis brand, replete with alphanumeric model names. They can get Phil Collins as spokesperson, even – doubly cool since fans of the band will likely be in the target demo for the car.
Actually, while we’re naming cars after bands that the target market likes, GM should rename “Pontiac” to “Buffet.” And instead of selling the G3, G5, and G6, they could sell the Parrot, Margarita, and Cheeseburger.
Long term, I think this is a solid move. No one thinks of Hyundai as a luxury product, but I think this can sell as ‘practical luxury’. 20 years ago, practical, well-to-do retirees bought Town Cars. Now, maybe they’ll buy a Genesis.
Of course, too many crappy dealers could kill this thing…
Lol @ Axel.
You really think Hyundai has the nuts (or money) to launch a premium division a`la Toyota/Lexus?
I don’t think so…not in this economic climate anyway and regardless of how good the Genesis platform is.
For sure it’s not a canyon carver like the BMW 5 Series but more a cruiser like the Lexus GS that can take the occasional curvy road, but doesn’t feel right doing so.
Is this the same V8 as the Borrego?
SupaMan :
Lol @ Axel.
You really think Hyundai has the nuts (or money) to launch a premium division a`la Toyota/Lexus?
If they can do it incrementally, and recover costs at each step of the process, then yes.
I don’t think so…not in this economic climate anyway and regardless of how good the Genesis platform is.
Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti launched during the late-80s bear market. Was Nissan in much of a different position than Hyundai today? And they went balls-out with a high-priced ad campaign that didn’t even show the cars!
The only big expense Hyundai would incur today would be establishing a dealer network (come to think of it, there are probably plenty of BPG dealers who wouldn’t mind jumping ship). Other than that, just come up with a new badge and some commercials showing fields and brooks and bunnies.
Andy,
I believe those cars will just be coming off warranty in 2018. So, at least Hyundai puts their money where their claims are.
I have to say that I’ve had two Hyundai Sonata vehicles (2002 V6 and 2007 four cylinder) and from my experience, as well as the experience of many of my colleagues at work (400 of us here), our local Hyundai dealer is first-class, and I’ve seen them bend into a preztel shape – not just backward – to satisfy me with a no-start mystery problem on the 2002. They finally found a bad ground in the master computer and replaced it. I rewarded their good deeds with a 2nd purchase and the 2007 has been ABSOLUTELY trouble-free.
Both the 2002 car and the 2007 car have, between them, been far better than virtually ANY Detroit car I’ve owned since 1973.
Hence, Detroit Inc’s major problems…. the word’s gotten out.
As for the Genesis, well, if I were in the market for such a car, could I imagine myself going for this rather than a more expensive Lexus? Maybe.
Can I imagine myself going for this rather than a top of the line Camry, Avalon or Maxima, for three examples? YES. Would I have this car in lieu of a 3-series BMW? At age 51, with my boy-racer instincts left behind, YES; at age 21 if given this choice, I’d probably have opted for the 3-series.
# psarhjinian :
Is this the same V8 as the Borrego?
Yes, it’s the same V8, slightly modified for towing/body-on-frame duties.
@Axel
They could probably pull it off but bear in mind, Infiniti wasn’t in such a good position when they launched as Lexus and the only good car they had then was the Q45.
If the Genesis proves to be a hit then it is a possibility. However, in this economic climate with the dollar weak and financing hard to come buy, it will be very difficult to do so.
These are going to be a great bargain used…see you in three years Genesis
I think hyundai is trying to offer the most cars for the money. Its not about M-B or BMW or Lexus competition, its simply about the most car for the money. Same goes for the Coupe and FWD sedans. Its a decent move. Something I’ve seen in Korean soap operas. Its a courageous move, considering consumer ignorance of good things. GO! (South) Korea.
Absolutely not a good value. The Toyota Avalon has a 268-hp engine, better MPG, heated/cooled leather seats, and won’t depreciate so much. A 306-hp G35 starts a bit lower, too.
These prices don’t sound neither bargain-level nor excessive. It is clear that this car is certainly no bargain.
If you don’t care about RWD, then I don’t see what a V6 Genesis gives you over a V6 Honda Accord EX with leather and navigation and which stickers for less than the Hyundai. On the other hand, if you want an RWD car then the Pontiac G8, in either V6 or V8 form stickers for less, and is already get very favorable reviews.
“The only big expense Hyundai would incur today would be establishing a dealer network”
Isn’t establishing new dealers actually profitable? There are up-front franchise fees, the new dealers have to buy a minimum stock of parts and the dealer has to buy cars. The factory doesn’t front the money for all this stuff, the dealers and/or their bankers do.
Where’s the sporty 2 door model at?
I really like the CTS but true delta price diff of $7k shheshh.
I dunno. While I am sure Hyundai benchmarked the E Class and 5 Series during development, it would seem that Genesis’s natural competitors are the Chrysler 300 and Pontiac G8. M-B and BMW, deservedly or not, have cachet. Hyundai has none.
I have been impressed with some recent Hyundais, but I get the feeling that the factory’s philosophy tilts more towards Detroit than Japan.
Judging people’s natural level of vanity regarding the car they drive and how it reflects on them, driving this car says to those around you ‘I could have ‘made it’, but was too cheap or failed to commit.’
Its akin to buying a really well made watch thats pretty expensive, but really isn’t anything. They both tell time, but you aspire to own one while the other (this Genesis) you just settle for.
Introverted accountants of the world rejoice, there is a new value proposition for you in a $33-40k luxury car. Start pounding out your excel spreadsheet, make your feature/$$ list and go test drive. Yep, good times.
For everyone else, who would really rather own this, day in and day out, in front of your friends and loved ones, for 3, 5 or 7 years??? Really now?
If anyone shopping has seen how damn good a new CTS, G35, M35, ES350, or any German car is, the entire ownership experience over several years is an absolute non-starter.
Genesizzzzzzzzzzzzzz….