Oil lovers, [wait to] start your engines! The BMW 335d won't make it stateside until November. But Camaro-like, that hasn't stopped press releases nor live photos from hitting the webs. The diesel 3's estimated EPA ratings of 23/33 blow the 335i's fuel consumption out of the water. But if BMW is smart, they won't market the 335d as a fuel efficient sedan. All of Paul Neidermeyer's usual diesel critiques apply here: more expensive to buy, more expensive to fuel and not vastly more fuel efficient. Ah but– the 265 horsepower, oil-fed twin-turbo straight six will produce with a tug boat-like 425 ft.-lbs. of torque. That's more twist than the 335i. Hell, that's more than the M3. Other than the fact that the 335d and 335xd (all wheel drive) will be autobox only (don't kvetch – Europeans won't get this car with a manual either), the stump-pulling 335d makes a convincing case for itself as the thinking man's sports sedan. With the 335i starting at $39k, I'd put my random guess on a sticker around $42k.
Pics of the US spec car "in the wild" at E90post.com
I thought Bmiier’s “3.5” diesel engine made up to 272hp?
I’m flabberghasted on how bad the mpg’s are.“The diesel 3’s estimated EPA ratings of 23/33”
Doesn’t the Audi A-8 diesel get like 40 mpg highway?
Not on the EPA highway cycle it won’t. The highway cycle isn’t just a steady 55 MPH cruise. It includes some accelerations and decelerations, just fewer of them than the city cycle.
I wouldn’t put much stock into this being a thinking man’s sports sedan. If the 335i gets 17/26 on premium, paying the extra cost up front and around 20% more per gallon for diesel to get 23/33 mpg hardly makes this any more efficient.
If it drives differently then it could be good. But with the lack of a stick, I doubt anyone will really care.
335xd in the US? That’s something I hadn’t seen before. Justin, do you have a source? Thx.
i’ll take the 335xid sportwagon please! and im gonna ditch that urea tank and chip it to 300 hp and 500 ft-lbs.
…still waiting for the 123d or 335d sportwagon.
I think the real problem they’ll have marketing it as a more powerful 335 is that in the US we’ve been so conditioned to think horsepower = power therefore more HP means better. So a lower HP will translate into the minds of most americans as less powerful, even though the torque probably makes more difference–haha, I’m an american and am really not sure the precise difference!!
Maybe they shoud call it “torquepower”
No man pedal??
WTF? I’m the biggest Diesel fanboy on TTAC by a wide margin but I’d buy a gasoline powered Ford before I’d buy something with a slushbox. Bleagh.
Must. Swap. Cogs. Myself.
–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
I thought Bmiier’s “3.5″ diesel engine made up to 272hp?
The Euro rating is 286HP.
It’s the only 3-Series engine in Europe that isn’t also available with a manual gearbox. Also, I’d be surprised if there would be an xd version, since in Europe there isn’t.
However, in Europe there is the 330d (and 325d, 320d and 318d for that matter), which is the same engine, albeit with just the one turbo. European rating for that one is 245HP and torque is about the same as the ’35’ and you can have both a manual and xDrive on that one.
For the sake of completeness; the 325d has the same 3.0 I6 engine only with 197HP, the 320d is a 2.0 I4 Turbodiesel with 177HP and the 318d has the latter engine with 143 HP. All can be had with either a manual or slushbox and the 320d can also be had with xDrive. The manual 318d and 320d have a European average mileage rating of approximately (rounding) 48 miles to the US gallon.
The big sacrifice you have to make of course when you don’t opt for the ’35’ is that you don’t get the dual exhaust with one exhaust on both sides and instead get a dual exhaust on the left side of the car in case of a 330d/325d or a measely single exhaust in case of the 318d/320d. Obviously the latter ones are by far sold the most.
I can’t speak for BMW and the specific reasons they will not offer a manual but I have one guess and some general commentary on diesels/manuals/autos.
First, with all the difficulty in getting a compliant diesel here in the states, it could be a situation that the auto is easier to certify/legalize versus the manual. This of course is all related to emissions issues. There is NO technical educated reasoning for this other than this; an automatic tranny can load and unload the engine in a more consistent manner and therefore more predictable manner and this allows them to pinpoint the negative emissions impact. Of course somebody good with a manual can probably do better then the auto/computer but lets be honest about who the average driver is…and that includes BMW drivers.
So along with that I’ll give you another thought on the auto vs manual and diesel and turbos.
My experience with diesels and turbos growing up was primarily with agriculture equipment but now includes a Subaru Legacy GT MT (Turbo) so please take that into account with my comments here. While turbos today are much better at reducing lag and keeping themselves spooled up (BMW has done many things with the twin-turbo to mitigate these issues) there are still issues around it. Specifically most automatics can shift quickly enough today that it keeps the RPM’s and thus the turbo spinning, boost up, less lag, and prevents the loss of power while shifting. Only the best manual shifters can do it as quick as today’s autos and maintain consistency. And even that “great” manual driver will not be as efficient and consistent unless they are REALLY trying on every shift. The average BMW driver isn’t a great manual shifter (certainly here int he States) and let’s understand that this board’s readers make up the dramatic minority of the auto buying public.
And finally, since BMW hasn’t sold a diesel here in ages they don’t want Joe Blow (don’t forget Ms. Joe Blow)getting in a diesel manual and thinking it performs poorly because Joe Blow doesn’t understand how to drive it or what it should feel like. So they offer it only with an auto so they can control all the shift points, RPM’s, and the general power/torque delivery that a manual would make more dependent on the driver and they make it feel like it’s a gasoline powered BMW…with required smelly and expensive fuel.
I’m rambling now so I’ll stop.
Well, it burns the right fuel, but it doesn’t have enough pedals, and the price is too high for me. Plus I don’t want to deal with urea when the 2009 Jetta and reportedly Honda’s diesel entry doesn’t require such a thing. Better luck next time, BMW.
Ummm, what are the EPA figures for the 328i?
Thank you Jesus, for answering my automotive prayers. If only, in your infinite wisdom, you had seen fit to make the price point near to that of a Hyundai Elantra, I could have afforded buying one.
40 some mpg should be possible… in imperial MPG, not US mpg. You can exceed 40 imp. with a diesel S-class (6 cyl) or the aforemention A8 (V8) if you are gentle. It’s not the rated MPG though, typically the reviews I used to read would get slightly better highway mileage than rated, at least on the Mercedes models. With all that torque, you really don’t have to cane them very much to get around, and you can eek out some very impressive mileage with a light foot.
I’d buy one. I looooove torque. Extra fuel economy is icing on the cake, even if its “only” 20% better on paper (which is a pretty big improvement in my book).
@XCSC
That last point is a good one…The first one I think not so much.
First of all, Manual transmissions are usually more fuel efficient by a significant amount.
You can see with BMWs German car configurator that the mileage numbers (verbrauch) are usually significantly better for the manual cars than their slushbox counterparts.
I don’t think the lack of MT driving skills of the average US citizen (let’s be honest) could completely mitigate that, especially not when they can actually drive a stig shift in the first place, (assumimg nobody buys an MT car while not being able to drive it).
Also, on the topic of automatics shifting faster than MTs, I say no. Only now, with DSGs, PDKs and KDGs ‘autoboxes’ achieve very short shifting times, however, the standard slushbox still found in most cars, including the 335d, can’t touch MTs which you can easily show by comparing 0-60 or 50-80 times.
My guess is the enthousiasts looking for a manual would more likely opt for a 335i or M3, while the ones looking for a long range cruiser like the 335d, given the characteristics of the car, would probably opt for an autobox anyway.
One has to understand that a 335d isn’t a darty sportscar, and shifting gears with that much torque and a flat HP-curve isn’t that much use either way, so BMW probably decided to not pretend to make something it’s not by fronting with a manual.