ToMoCo's fears of "big company disease" seem most credible when looking at its non-Toyota brands. While Scion fails to capitalize on increased demand for smaller, more efficient cars, Lexus is struggling to adjust to the changing market conditions. Automotive News [sub] reports that Lexus has relied too heavily on SUV and crossover sales, allowing its car offerings to wither on the vine. The IS isn't due for a restyle until 2012, the GS and ES models are two and three years away from redesigns respectively, and the aging SC430 is [still] dead in the water (1,373 sales year-to-date). On the performance front the GS-F's on hold and the LF-A development project has failed to hit performance benchmarks in line with its $160k price tag. Delaying the LF-1 production model until 2010 seems a foregone conclusion. Even then there's no guarantee that there'll be a market for Lexus' halo model. No wonder, then, that Lexus is amping-up its hybrid options. Not only does "the power of H" give the brand unique cachet, but it also returns hefty profits on ToMoCo's hybrid platforms, helping the Japanese automaker drive down costs on Toyota-branded hybrids.
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This assumes Lexus buyers are motivated by either improved mileage or image of being a greenie. Either way, they are still a bore to drive.
Hopefully they’ll chuck that nasty ass red colored wood that’s in many of the interiors as well.
The IS is already the oldest car compared to it’s direct competition, the CTS/3/G35/C/TSX/TL/1. Hopefully they do a drastic face-lift/refresh.
I agree being THE hybrid luxury leader makes real sense.
Most Lexus sell to someone not overly concerned with their bank account balance. This means minor details like almost forever payback on Hybrid technology are a non-factor compared the the bragging rights of 40 mpg.
Lexus can’t try to be half pregnant on this. BMW doesn’t sell any slugs here so Lexus has to accept they need to give up their share of the remaining gas guzzler market if they want to pull this off.
I’m actually kind of astounded that there’s not already an ES hybrid, since they have the hardware.
The Camry Hybrid is a pretty nice piece, actually. Drives like a Buick, naturally, but it’s roomy, comfortable, and gets astounding real-world fuel economy. (A friend of mine has one, and she gets 35 mpg in a brutal cross-Valley commute — in the same driving, my manual 3 would probably get 20.) A plusher Lexus version actually sounds like a desirable proposition.
Also, I’m obviously in the minority, but I shudder to think of what the next IS will look like. The current one is too heavy and not interesting to drive, so I wouldn’t buy one, but it’s by far the best-looking car in the Lexus line-up. It looks miles better than a 3-series or C-class (or the misbegotten new TSX); pity it’s so bland underneath.
Lexus is coming out with a prius based car instead of converting the ES.
Frankly, when I worked for Lexus I found the products dull and uninspiring but they sell reasonably well. The we want reliability plus upscale badge crowd loves them.
As for being too tilted to SUV, it’s all about the RX. I spent probably 70% of my time talking about it. Makes one feel that Lexus is a bit of a one trick pony.
there was an article on autospies.com ( please no flames, i’m an equal opportunity reader ) recently which asked for people’s opinions on why Lexus sales are tanking
i bring this up as i think it’s related to this post
we have an ’02 E46 and had an ’05 RX – note that we HAD the RX. what happened? we were utterly BORED with it so we traded it in and bought another (albeit newer) E46
it seems Lexus’ philosophy on driving ( or a lack of it ) is making people leave the brand? all the previous commenters have one way or another made the same observation – they’re dreadful drives
we thought so as well and we would never buy another Lexus again no matter how reliable, cheaper than the competition, etc etc etc
and BMW just made another grand or so and on a used model and are laughing all the way to the bank – which is fine by me as i look forward everytime i have to go somewhere in the BMW
From the linked story:
The ES 350 redesign will come in the spring of 2011 as a 2012 model. The next generation will offer a hybrid model, borrowing the V-6 from the RX 400h.
A redesign (of the RX350) comes in early 2009 as a 2010 model, looking quite similar to the 2007 Tokyo show vehicle. Expect the hybrid variant to get more power, as Toyota already has filed trademarks on RX 430h, RX 440h and RX 450h.
And don’t forget the dedicated “hybrid-only” model which AN says will have “a different configuration and design from the Prius… It is likely to arrive in early 2010 as a 2011 model. The car is likely to be a four-cylinder small sedan. Typically, Lexus hybrids have been about performance, but this one will be Lexus’ first hybrid vehicle designed primarily to be fuel thrifty.”
Point Given : If Lexus is a one trick pony, it’s either a very good trick or a very good pony.
Branding has always been a game of one-trick ponies.
“…reports that Lexus has relied too heavily on SUV and crossover sales, allowing its car offerings to wither on the vine.”
Where have heard of this before?
I would say that only the Toyota brand has any traction. It seems that Scion came and went with the life-span of the latest sport-coupe, and Lexus seems to be foundering in the ever increasing competition that has become the luxury and near-luxury markets. What are they? The message seems muddled.
I think that the luxury hybrid gambit is as good as any other. It seems to me no one had imagined that gasoline prices exceeding $4/gallon would have affected the US economy as greatly as it has. Of course, that wasn’t the only reason, but it was the straw that broke the camel’s hump.
It seems to me, that the folks who have the kind of financial resources to afford luxury cars probably aren’t too concerned about gas mileage. I suppose you could brag about your mileage, but at least as the current generation of Lexus hybrids demonstrate, what really is there to brag about? I believe the hybrid version of the RX series gets worse mileage than the gasoline powered one.
I’m wondering too, if were starting to see hybrid overload. With the great masses, they’re doing anything they can to get out of their gas hogs cheaply, and often a car with a hybrid drivetrain vehicle doesn’t fit the bill. If I had the choice between a $15K car that got 35 MPG and a $21K car that got 45 MPG, I’m going for the $15K car. Lower cost of entry and miles ahead of a 15 MPG SUV.
geozinger: “I believe the hybrid version of the RX series gets worse mileage than the gasoline powered one.
You are way off about the hybrid RX. Please research first.
RX350 AWD: 17/22
RX350 FWD: 18/23
RX400h AWD: 26/24
RX400h FWD: 27/24
Areitu
Indeed. The RX is the main draw up here. Few people look at the GS, even less the LS. ES/IS get a decent share of looks but still nothing compares to the draw of the RX.
When oil hit $130 a barrel I had 5 ups that saturday, each one of them in the hybrid RX.
It’s a dull drive but the Lexus buyer demographic wants nothing too over the top. They aren’t buying BMW’s because they want something different out of a car. Performance, well it’s not the be all end all to them…they want a reliable luxury car. The philosophy would be that they don’t need to do 140kph mergeing onto the highway anymore so power isn’t the issue. The buyer wants simple and reliable in a luxury car and Lexus does have that nailed(even if it’s just a perception of having it nailed these days).
I doubt *many* Lexus buyers hang on sites like this because a car is simply a nice appliance not a statement, not an interest.
Hybrids are pretty much a great idea as long as you aren’t trying for handling performance. Lexus has wisely touted the hybrids as a way to gain the performance of larger engines with the efficency of smaller ones (V12 performance, V8 efficency). You aren’t putting these massive cruisers around the ring, so other considerations come first.
Yes, you can save money by buying a Prius, but if you want something to impress everyone at the country club but you still want to pinch pennies somewhere, Lexus is way ahead of BMW or Mercedes. Amazingly, there are lots of rich people who pinch pennies here and there but make sure they keep up appearances.
I once owned a 1993 LS400. It was beautiful and elegant in a restrained classy kind of way. It blitzed the luxury opposition available at the time.
In terms of looks and style, for Lexus it’s been downhill from there in my opinion. None of the current crop hold any interest for me.
If you want a reliabile luxury car, you have no other option. Acura isn’t “real” luxury in many people’s minds (the Honda corporate “No V8” policy really hurts Acura)-they are more on the level of Lincoln or Saab or Buick or Volvo, a step below “real” luxury, and the reliability of BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, or Cadillac is questionable at best. So, if you are rich enough to not have time to go to the dealer to figure out what the fark is wrong with your car every few months, you pretty much have to buy a Lexus.
Lexus has always confused me with the alphabet soup of model names – i cant tell one from another without a picture, kinda like a Bob Evans restaurant menu. So i really dont know what most of the commenters are talking about. Let alone lexus itself.
Lexus meets my absolute first requirement of a car: It must start each and every time I want to go somewhere. Even if it is cold out. Even if I spill coffee out of the cupholder. The only thing I want to deal with is an oil change and tire rotation every few thousand miles and occasional scheduled maintenence. Acura, Lexus, and perhaps to some degree Inifinit are the only luxury brands that give me the feeling that I do not have to worry.
Second, I don’t care that the $40k car that I buy has a $70k luxobarge sibling with an eight cylinder. It doesn’t matter to me. I am at a point in life where I am looking to cruise in comfort, not turn heads. For the record, I own an older Infiniti and a newer Subaru.
Third, this is real differentiation. There are a LOT of good 40k cars on the market. From Acura to Volvo (ok, maybe not Volvo) there are worthwhile choices. And all of them are pretty similar. But Lexus will have a real advantage with some differentiated product. I will seriously consider buying this for my wife, if it has a normal amount of power and Lexus luxury and ride.
Either way, they are still a bore to drive.
That’s not really fair. The IS is actually very well-balanced in 250/RWD form, though the previous IS was more raw; I’d say it compares more than favourably with the 323i. The IS350 had the misfortune of coming out just before the 335i and G37, and didn’t really get a fair shake; it’s a pretty good performer, too, probably as well-balanced as an equivalent G35 or C-Class, better than the A4 and not quite as nice as the 3-Series.
The GS misses the mark set by the M and 5-Series, true, but no more than the A6 or E-Class. The LS is actually very, very good, again, compared to an equivalently-priced A8 or S-Class. Again, the 7-Series is more fun, but is that really the mission of a car so massive?
Then you get into cars like the GX and LX, which are stupidly capable off-road for something as civilized as they are. They’re like a nicer Land Rover, but without the “break down every six hours” habit, or a G-Class with a modern ride.
I’ve never had seat time in the IS-F or SC430 can’t speak to either.
I think a lot of people extrapolate the ES and RX’s attributes onto the rest of the line. Both are easily Lexus’ most pedestrian models (and they sell very well for it, thank you very much!), and really aren’t a fair comment on what is otherwise a very good lineup. That lineup tracks Mercedes’ and Audi’s equivalent models for driving fun, but where Lexus falls down is the lack of an AMG/S/M division. The IS-F is a nice start, but as I understand it, it was developed without real, formal support from Toyota–it’s more a skunkworks project than a polished effort from a dedicated in-house tuner.
If I had the money, I’d buy a GS hybrid.
@drewpsb
How do you compare the driving dynamics of an E46 to an RX? If the new E46 was a direct replacement for the RX, I’d say the RX was the wrong car for you to begin with.
I agree with psarhjinian. I have the original IS300, and it is not boring to drive at all. Is it perfect? Of course not, but which car is?
When I’m at the pump, sometimes I wish I had a 4-cyl. When traffic is backed up, sometimes I wish I had softer seats. When the roads are clear, sometimes I wish I had a bigger engine. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.