“This isn’t the same America that mustered the will and the fierce pride to counteract global evil in the Second World War. This isn’t the same America whose ‘blue sky’ thinking and unbridled creativity responded to a challenge and propelled the rocket age to new heights. And this isn’t the same America that once shared a common purpose and perspective on what this country stands for. Instead, this country has become a jaded and fractionalized nation of consumer sponges driven by the lackadaisical mantra of ‘whatever’ and ‘what’s in it for me?’ A nation whose people couldn’t be bothered with such esoteric concepts as this country’s eroding manufacturing base and the nation’s burgeoning inability to lead on the world stage.” Wow! It looks like Sweet Pete has gone beyond Shock and Denial, past Pain and Guilt, all the way to Anger and Bargaining. Yup. “At this juncture Detroit has only one move left, and that is to get through to the American consumer by building outstanding products that have no ‘ifs,’ ‘ands,’ or ‘buts’ attached to them. Machines that not only stand out, but stand above the rest.” What’s the hurry? Next up: Depression, Reflection and Loneliness.
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seriously, manufacturing cars just isn’t all that prestigious.
3rd world countries manufacture cars all the time.
If there’s manufacturing that puts the US on the world stage it would be the space industry manufacturing or other advanced devices like jet engines or cutting edge medical devices.
cars aren’t the pinnacle of technology anymore and being able to make cars means that you have achieved the barest minimum of manufacturing prowess in your country.
but maybe that’s a truth that old gearheads don’t like to acknowledge.
Instead, this country has become a jaded and fractionalized nation of consumer sponges driven by the lackadaisical mantra of ‘whatever’ and ‘what’s in it for me?’ A nation whose people couldn’t be bothered with such esoteric concepts as this country’s eroding manufacturing base and the nation’s burgeoning inability to lead on the world stage.
You know, I may be a lackadaisical consumer sponge who can’t be bothered with esoteric concepts, but at least I write in complete sentences.
Well, mostly.
Really.
I like reading his weekly every Wednesday morning, but sometimes I get a little tired of the negatives he blames on others.
And finally, his goals for the US automakers…Really now, this SHOULD have been the goal all along.
Am I missing something?
It is exactly what we have all been pleading for!
Build the best car…what a concept!
Unfortunately, the root of America’s wealth isn’t patriotism. It’s the “what’s in it for me” attitude that is allowed to blossom under capitalism.
When capitalism leads to cool products, everyone’s happy. When it leads to buying chinese TVs, Arab energy, Japanese cars, Canadian lumber, Mexican labor – everyone’s a socialist.
You can’t make a coin with only 1 side.
The whole Big 3=patriotism thing really bugs me.
Grant the premise that buying an American car is a patriotic thing to do. Isn’t there a flip side to this? Don’t the American car companies have a similar patriotic duty to build cars that aren’t technologically obsolescent, unreliable, and short lived? What do you make of a company (Chrysler) that wants to demand people buy its products out of patriotism, but is willing to sell the American people minivans with faulty transmissions for 10 years straight? Or GM workers who couldn’t be bothered to put all the screws in or the panels in right?
Aren’t they the unpatriotic ones?
I don’t know if AE “Hates America…” however I’m sure that they hate my “Eyesight” – what’s up with that size 8 Times Roman font.
Aren’t Ad men supposed to know that the first rule of communications is to make it easy for the reader.
“Hey, you kids, get off my lawn!”
Canfood, I think you hit the nail on the head.
Hmmm, if I had a golden parachute retirement plan completely unrelated to the performance of my company, should I try harder to develop the best car, period?
What’s in it for me?
Autoextremist came from the GM elite. Consequently he blames everyone. What else is new. He generally has some good points but it is pretty pathetic when he blames the american consumer for all of GM’s/detroit’s problems. I read his column but he seems just like an angry little boy in love with his own image.
Wow. One should never sit at a keyboard so soon after spending a week driving Chrylser rental car.
Just a hunch…
What so many commentators fail to realize is that the world is always changing and that the process of change can be very painful and disruptive. Some change occurs gradually, but often change occurs fairly quickly; it is with rapid change that we get the most turmoil. The start of the automotive industry caused this type of change by forcing those involved with horses, wagons, buggies and their surrounding industries to adapt to the rapid popularity of the automobile.
Peter is clearly wedded to the NA auto industry and is experiencing the angst that comes when you realize that the world you spent your entire career in is about to disappear or become something radically different. He blames it on an American public unwilling to take steps to prevent the inevitable and completely necessary change, but perhaps the public are smarter than he thinks and are already embracing the coming changes to the automotive industry.
Peter always ignores the most basic “traditional” maxim: Treat your customers well and they will be loyal. Treat them badly and they will abandon you.
He rants and raves about the abandonment, but leaves out the part about the customer being so often mistreated in the past and in the present. Bill Heard Enterprises, anyone?
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/why-didnt-gm-cut-of-bill-heard/
Who needs manufacturing?
The government is going to provide jobs and money for everybody. Obama said so. Look what they did for the City of Detroit.
After being so totally disgusted and fed up with Detroit 3 manufacturers, I threw up my hands and said – that’s it. It was 2002, and I dumped my LAST Dodge Neon and got a 2002 Hyundai Sonata. After being offered a better deal than I could have though possible on a lease (which we’d never tried before), we got a 2007 Hyundai Sonata. It’s my wife’s car.
Actually, it’s a wonderful “all around” sedan, far better than virtually any “American” car I’ve ever owned. Bar none. The ’09 is even better.
Pretty humiliating for the (now) Detroit 2.8.
All GM, Ford and especially Chrysler executives should go down to their nearest Hyundai dealer, pretend to be Joe Blow, and actually buy a 2009 Sonata, and actually drive it.
Their faces will blanch when they get back into their own cars.
It’s simply gravy on the well done roast beef to realize, that my wife’s new Sonata? Was MANUFACTURED (NOT assembled) in Montgomery Alabama by Americans, using (literally) US Steel, engines built on site, bodies pressed, welded and painted on site.
I visited the plant, so I saw it with my own eyes. Car manufacturing is not brain surgery.
Using best practices (hey, they’ve been building cars since the 1890’s, okay?), the ability to engineer and develop good products, and marketing practices are all available to all manufacturers.
I have to believe they CHOSE to build Neons in the head gaskets which can’t make 50,000 miles, and Chevy Cavaliers in which brake rotors warp continually, etc. etc. ad nauseum.
I therefore retain the right to CHOOSE not to buy any Detroit 2.8 stuff. I just wish I could retain the right to not have my taxpayer monies p!ssed away on the 2.8, but of course, that’s not possible. No matter which imbecile Democrat or Republican I vote for in November. (Hint: Don’t vote for any Republicans or Democrats!)
“seriously, manufacturing cars just isn’t all that prestigious.”
And this, ladies and gentleman, is exactly WHY Americans can’t build desireable cars any more. Goes right to the core. I mean, if it ain’t prestigious, then what’s the point. I mean any (insert favorite ethnic slam here) can do it, I can do so much better (sarcasm alert).
Sweet Pete may be an elitist, cantankerous, old man. But he’s right. Not that it’s important or anything (again).
Ralph SS:
No actually Sweet Pete is not right. Making cars is not prestigious. Manufacturing cars does not put the US on a world stage. The belief that the ability of the Big 3 to manufacture cars makes the US some awe inspiring manufacturing powerhouse is flat wrong (ie 3rd world countries do it all the time) and the belief that if the Big 3 somehow went out of business America will suffer a great manufacturing disaster that we’ll never recover from is absolute bullshit.
And point in fact, Americans do build desirable cars. Americans build Accords in Marysville, Ohio. Americans build Camrys Georgetown, Kentucky. Americans build Civics in East Liberty, Ohio.
Sweet Pete is infatuated with the history and legacy of the Big 3 back when the ability to build cars represented the industrial might of a country.
Those days are gone. And the american public knows it.
Samir :
Unfortunately, the root of America’s wealth isn’t patriotism. It’s the “what’s in it for me” attitude that is allowed to blossom under capitalism.
I fully endorse this statement.
And people wonder why the American auto industry is doing so poorly, while the Japanese (including to an extent, Toyota) are doing well.
It’s obvious American workers can manufacture good cars (for example, see Menno, above). The fault lies with management of the big 2.8, and the corporate culture. It’s not a matter of lack of respect for manufacturing. I’m sure the managers of Toyota and Honda get plenty of respect in their country. If the 2.8 made good cars, they’d get respect, too. The problem is corporate culture. And there may be an element of lack of patriotism. The big 2.8 did a great job of producing planes and tanks during wwII.
menno
Visit a Hyundai dealer…?
Isn’t that exactly what the top Japanese, Honda and Toyata, just did?
Its not only the big three that are wondering how Hyundai is doing it…EVERBODY is wondering.
They got some of the earliest Genesis to study.
All the hatred aside for the US auto industry: where are the jobs that replace the loss of domestic manufacturing? What does the US export that makes up for the billions of dollars’ worth of goods/oil that we import?
This issue always reminds me of the Pastor Niemoeller quote regarding the Nazis: first they came for the gypsies and I said nothing because I wasn’t a gypsy. Then they came for the homosexuals and I said nothing because I wasn’t a homosexual. Then they came for the Jews…and then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up for me.
So first we let textiles go (remember “look for the union label”?) and hey, we liked those cheap imported clothes, and most of us didn’t work for a mill, so ta-ta textile jobs. Then we let electronics go, then steel, now cars, and programming, farming to some extent, and anything else that some corporate suit can outsource to enhance his bonus (classic short term thinking BTW). What will be left?
“No actually Sweet Pete is not right. Making cars is not prestigious.”
Well, sorry. I guess my dad was wrong when he told me that any job worth doing is worth doing right and you should be proud of a job well done.
Ralph SS:
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Nowhere did I say that auto workers shouldn’t be proud of their job.
I work as an engineer in the power industry which has as long as legacy as the auto industry. Making sure your AC stays on and your frozen pizza stays frozen is NOT a prestigious job.
does that mean I don’t care about doing my job right? Does that mean my job isn’t worth doing?
My point is that manufacturing cars is not the prestigious industry that it used to be. America is beyond the auto industry. We are looked up to as an industrial powerhouse for our internet companies or our biomedical companies or whatever.
Farago and Berkowitz et al. complain that cars like the camry or the accord are like appliances. They are right in a way. Making cars well is tough and complex requiring a lot of talent and hardwork. But it’s also something that a lot of countries can do and a lot of countries have been doing it better than the US for quite some time now.
We all participate on this website because we love cars. We eat, sleep, and breathe cars. I know for a fact that Sweet Pete loves cars. America loves cars. And maybe because of that love, the Big 3’s importance is a little inflated when it comes to its impact on manufacturing in this country. What about General Electric? Boeing? 3M? Caterpillar? Honeywell?
We have a lot of manufacturing expertise in this country. It’s not as if the transplants don’t make cars. and it’s not as if the Big 3 will completely disappear. Cars will always be made in America, that won’t change. But however GM goes, America will no longer go.
AutoExtremist comes up with some useful commentary, but Peter can be quite the blowhard. Lots of frothing rhetoric and waving arms. The blog’s name isn’t even particularly accurate — I wouldn’t consider the basic arguments very extreme at all. In fact, they tend to have a common wisdom quality to them. And, by the way, when is a shout out “informed” by Peter’s consulting work? And when is a particularly harsh analysis colored by him being spurned?
It would be amusing to know the backstory behind why they no longer place in huge type on the banner, “Bob reads it”.
WW2 again?
If you have to go back 68 years to justify buying a Domestic, wow. And lets be honest here, the Sherman was the Chevy Aveo of WW2 tanks.
Look, I think everyone would like it if the domestics weren’t a bubbling mass of failure and flop sweat. But they are. And they won’t change without some very painful and unpleasant changes. Bethlehem Steel went from the 2nd biggest steel producer to bankrupt; now its remnants are part of the International Steel Group, which is doing quite well.
America is a fine place to run a manufacturing business, if you aren’t weighted down with all the baggage people apparently thought would be super ideas back in the 50s and 60s. I’m hoping the American auto industry can do the same thing as Bethlehem; emerge from the ashes a smaller, but profitable industry. The potential is there. It’s just that the domestics aren’t up to it.
Whatever.
Peter De Lorenzo overlooks the fact loyalty is a two-way street.
The Detroit-3’s issues are wholly self-inflicted. They have more to do with lousy cars and maltreating customers than union wages or legacy costs, the latter an accounting accrual failure. Toyota, Honda and Nissan’s profitable North American plants pay similar compensation.
The Asian invasion passed a milestone with Consumer Reports’ ranking MY2006 Japanese cars as its top choice in all 10 vehicle categories. Not a single Toyota, Honda or Nissan made the magazine’s used-car lemon list. Of 34 recent used models with an inordinately large number of problems, six were Chevrolets, five GMCs and four Volkswagens. Thirty-one of the 44 most satisfying vehicles were also Japanese.
The Atlantic and Pacific protected the U.S. from “global evil” much better than they protected Detroit from global automakers.
Anyone who thinks the past was really better needs to take a closer look at the past.
Similarly, generalizing about an entire nation and national character is risky. Every country contains some excellent organizations, and far more dysfunctional ones.
One thing is clear: competition breeds excellent organizations, organizations without real competition tend to become complacent, and once an organization becomes complacent it’s hard to go back.
A great deal of Peter’s Rant dealt with the Perception Gap. That old argument that, “We’re building cars and trucks equal to the imports in quality, but people no longer consider us.”
Then he goes on the state that it’s GM/Ford/Chrysler’s fault thanks to the awful cars of the 70s, 80s, 90s, even early 2000s.
But hang the public for our danged “Perception Gap.”
Only, there isn’t one.
The only Perception Gap I see, as a consumer, is the one GM has with its OWN cars.
They STILL aren’t as good as they say they are.
They STILL aren’t as good as the competition.
And their dealer experience is STILL awful.
The CTS? Held up as being as good as any BMW or Lexus? Tell that to the co-worker who bought one and had the transmission blow up in the first 2000 miles.
The Silverado? America’s Truck? I have a brother with an 07 on its second transmission.
My own 2006 GM car? An electric mess of British sportscar proportions.
This still AIN’T GOOD ENOUGH GM.
Not even close.
No, the Perception Gap from where I sit isn’t the public’s, it’s GM’s.
Forgive us, Peter, if we’re not drinking your bailout Koolaid.
So where do people get all these lemon American cars from?
I’ve predominantly purchased American cars my entire driving life and haven’t had any real issues that people claim they have with them on the internet. No blown gaskets, no failed transmissions, no interior parts falling off, no squeaks or rattles.
A good friend of mine had a new Acura TL back in 2001, it went through three transmissions under warranty. That’s pretty shocking. The “desirable”, “superior” Honda product assembled in America had faults. It’s interior was pretty shiny and slippery for what it was too. He got rid of it pretty quickly and purchased a Chrysler 300 to replace it.
I have another friend that purchased an Acura TSX new. He liked it and I liked them too. They are my favorite Acura product. The A/C compressor failed just outside the warranty. And it was expensive to fix. That cured him of Honda products. I was surprised, how could that happen in a Honda? I always hear about how Japanese cars never require major repairs. An A/C compressor is a pretty expensive and major repair, especially when you live in the desert.
I’ve never had to put a transmission in any of my American vehicles. Not even the 3800 LeSabre I just sold this summer with over 300,000 miles on it. I also had a Cadillac with 160,000 miles that I had to put a compressor in. It’s much more tolerable at 160k than it is at 60k.
I drove the current Camry when it debuted and was appalled at what a truly crappy car it was. I can’t figure out why people buy them in droves. It’s terrible to drive and look at as well as horrendously styled inside with subpar materials. And people laud it? I really don’t get it, other than it rides solely on Toyota’s reputation and people think it will go forever without costing them anything.
I wouldn’t buy a car like the Camry from any manufacturer, in fact I’d rather have a new Malibu over one. It looks too Asian to me, but at least it’s better looking and the interior has a semblance of style and it is a bit nicer to drive.
American automakers make some very nice products and it’s also true that they don’t make enough of them. It’s also true that they make some very bad products (but so do many others), those are the ones you don’t buy. The Big 3 make some products that warrant test drives and deserve to be purchased. Even Chrysler with their RWD, fullsize cars, the Jeep Wrangler and upcoming (and exceptionally competitive looking) Ram makes a couple of products I would consider.
It’s nice that a Hyundai is made in the US with US steel and by US workers. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a Korean product from a Korean company doing business here and is a detriment to our own US automakers and the Americans they employ. But I guess their jobs and the existence of our automakers all don’t matter anymore because Hyundai operates a plant here. Hyundai operates plants everywhere, that still doesn’t make them anything but a Korean company doing business globally. You know, like Ford and GM. Both of which manufacture cars abroad for their respective markes and bring the profits made in those markets back to America only to see them disappear in the black hole of their business here because people are convincing themselves that it doesn’t matter if these companies live or die. All because Hyundai (or Toyota, or whomever) run a US plant making a car for the US and they are superior and their growth doesn’t hurt US jobs, our economy or our companies. Oh no, of course not.
Hyundai has come a long way, but so has GM and Ford. Why just reward Hyundai by buying their good products while ignoring their bad (and many of their current products still come in last in comparisons and in CR tests) and not treat our own automakers the same way?
Look, I really like my 2006 Ford Fusion, but I’ll be the first to admit that it’s no Accord. But then, I bought it used for under $12,000 and couldn’t begin to touch a two-year old Civic for that, much less the Accord. Fit and finish on the Fusion are average, at best (steering wheel is already delaminating) and the paint has some noticeable flaws in it. I was looking for a two to three year old car, decent size with five speed and some nice features. For the money, I got the manual w/ 4 cylinder, wheel-mounted stereo controls and a sunroof. Overall, I’m happy with it and feel I got what I paid for. Will it last five years? Sure hope so. It wasn’t a matter of buying American to be patriotic, but buying what I thought fit my needs at the budget I set. Time will tell if the “perception gap” is alive and well, or all in my head!
Anyone who thinks the past was really better needs to take a closer look at the past.
Thank you, Mr Karesh.
As a former student of history, I’d like to call some attention to your comment. Human history is long, cyclical and diverse. There’s a tendency for people–and Mr. De Lorenzo is a prime example–to glorify the recent past, demonize the present and completely forget anything older.
Peter makes two errors:
One: The post-war boom in North America was an exceptional period; “exceptional” meaning “not the rule”. Western Europe, not to mention the rest of the world, didn’t experience the same ballooning middle class, and the perfect storm of social and economic conditions that allowed this to happen may not appear again.
But this is when Peter grew up, so he assumes this is the way things should be.
Two: Gods did not walk the earth in 1962. Human beings, fundamentally, have not changed since Ur was founded in ancient Mespotamia. There are regional differences, cultural advancement and technological leaps, but people have been eking out a living in the company of other people for a very long time. To imply that somehow a better class of person existed in a given time period is the height of hubris…
…but to hear Peter lionize about Bill Mitchell, while denying the very existence of modern equivalents (Steve Jobs comes to mind) is exactly that. I think he needs to understand that the problem isn’t that everyone magically became a backbending toady in 1976, or America doesn’t have decent corporate leadership, it’s that none of them work at GM.
It’s nice that a Hyundai is made in the US with US steel and by US workers. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a Korean product from a Korean company doing business here and is a detriment to our own US automakers and the Americans they employ.
@trishield:
Y’see, this is where your argument really fails miserably. You have this notion that somehow GM is less of a nameless and faceless profit-driven corporation just because they write a few checks to your neighbors. This belief that somehow the country would be sooooooooo much worse if GM and it’s PR-laden, overpromising, overdealered, over capacity, overindulgent, overwhelmingly inept operation crumbles is nothing short of laughable. GM is the poster child for everything wrong with American business, yet so many people (even here, worryingly enough) find a way to rationalize their behavior.
As far as the perception gap goes: like I’ve said before, this is a numbers game. Trishield has had bad experiences with Honda; I’ve had bad experiences with GM.
But overall, more people are having problems with the domestics than the Japanese imports. Fewer people are swearing off Honda cause of an awful experience than are swearing off GM. The market share bears that out.
The thing with the perception gap is that it touches on the quality of the brand. If you drive your brand name into the dirt with bad products, its a long haul to get your good name back. That’s why they have brands in the first place; if you slap a blue oval or a jaguar on something, you’re evoking the whole history of that company to help sell the product. If you tarnish the brand as a whole, you tarnish everything that bears the brand. You can’t just say: Hey, ignore the past, we’re good now.
And frankly, if people viewed each car independent of the brand and rationally reviewed the relative merits of each model vs. each model, the Domestics would have died in the mid 80s, so the perception gap worked in the Big 3’s favor for a long time. Now they are on the opposite side of the gap, and now they bitch about it.
toxicroach:
And frankly, if people viewed each car independent of the brand and rationally reviewed the relative merits of each model vs. each model, the Domestics would have died in the mid 80s.
The Silverado vs. the ?
The Caprice vs. the ?
The Suburban vs. the ?
The F-350 vs. the ?
Where were these equivalent import products in the mid-80s?
(I raise the Silverado/Suburban/F-350 examples because most commentators on this site act as though there doesn’t exist truck divisions at the domestic automakers).
CarShark, I’m not rationalizing GM’s behavior.
I’m also not going to excuse the belief that somehow the health of GM’s entire business doesn’t matter to anyone in this country or that those employed by Asian automakers are more important than the thousands and thousands of people across our country and in Michigan who are employed by and affected by GM’s fall. You really don’t think that matters to our overall economic health?
I’m not going to look the other way at the double standard applied by so many people to American automakers and products when it’s also not applied to foreign automakers.
Using Hyundai as an example, it wasn’t so long ago that they created some of the worst cars money could buy. They have come a long way, but they still produce many vehicles that are not class leading and that come in at the bottom of comparisons. Yet nobody cares.
GM has also come a very long way and produces many competitive products while still producing some products that are mediocre, like Hyundai, but we continue to crucify them instead of lauding and rewarding improvement. I really don’t get the double standard and I really don’t get the mentality that we should eat our own and that our own business are irrelevant.
“what’s in it for me”, in the context presented, is not a Capitalist idea at all. It is the Union and/or Socialist ideal.
I agree that it is exactly what is wrong with what America has become. But America is no longer the land of raging Capitalism. It is quickly following Europe into the unproductive and counterproductive cesspool of Socialism. Too many people just want to do the bare minimum, or nothing, to get a check. They are owed a job, which should never change. They are owed a huge legal settlement (beyond actual damages) because someone hurt them or their feelings. This is “what’s in it for me”. And it is NOT Capitalism, but the opposite.
And GM begging for a government check is no different, it is Socialism not Capitalism and they should be ashamed.
“what’s in it for me”, in the context presented, is not a Capitalist idea at all. It is the Union and/or Socialist ideal.
I don’t think you understand what Socialism really is. There’s nothing wrong with that; most people who oppose it don’t take the time to understand it, preferring dogma instead.
“What’s in it for me” is very much a capitalist truism, and certainly one championed by individualists and objectivists, though usually not in such selfish phrasing. There’s a lot of value in such an ideology, but it must be enlightened self-interest. Where individualism falls down (and it does so for the same reason as pure socialism) is that it forgets (or ignores) that people are involved and that people do not fit into philosophical ideals nearly as well as ideologues think they do.
A government-sponsored loan or bailout that does not involve the government taking a share of ownership in GM is not socialism, it’s light corporatism, which is a stepping stone on the way to fascism. Quite the opposite direction of the political spectrum.
…I’ve just used a Dodge Caliber…
…and a 1973 Renault 12 is a more sophisticated car…
It’s clear why Big 2.8 is in trouble…