Just when Farago begins to question his ongoing coverage of the UK’s obsession with speed cameras, thenewspaper.com proves the significance of the story… Redflex and American Traffic Solutions (ATS) are already raking in tens of million of dollars of loot from dubiously justifiable red-light cameras; corrupting officials, invading privacy and subverting government accountability along the way. But they’re thinking bigger than that. WAY BIGGER (Brother). “We are moving into areas such as homeland security on a national level and on a local level,” boasts Redflex regional director Cherif Elsadek. New “optical character recognition” technology could be integrated with existing red light camera and speed camera systems, allowing full video records to be kept of passing motorists. Add that to ATS’s proposal to integrate Arizona’s speed cameras to a national database, and you can see where this is going. Or just ask Elsadek. “Imagine if you had 1500 or 2000 cameras out there that could look out for the partial plate or full plate number across the 21 states where we do business today. This is the next step for our technology.” Why? Amber Alerts and tracking stolen cars, of course. Nothing to see here.
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Next thing I now the tech is available on Ebay. I dunno how I feel about this, why do I need privacy again?
Well, not to get too political, but thank you Republicans for the brilliant notion that government duties are better outsourced to private corporations. Greed, amorality and incompetence are so much better than plain old incompetence.
I do have to thank the Supreme Court (with no sarcasm) for deciding in favor of the more liberal (in a classical sense) interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. At least that will leave the government with a little bit left to fear from its people (the way I prefer it).
For all of the pissing and moaning that people do about the Federal Government small local governments are infinitely more corrupt. Hopefully more states will have the integrity to shut this red light shit down, as I believe Texas did.
DearS, you can pretty much build this yourself cheaply with off-the-shelf technology today. The difference is in the scale of deployment and who owns the data. You can build this and stick it in your yard, but you can’t deploy it on every street corner.
Civil libertarians: this is your moment. Seize it.
Years ago, while travelling in the United Kingdom, I was shown a device by a trucker. This device was located in the engine compartment and kept an analog record of the speed achieved by the vehicle. When the time came to renew his license, the paper scroll was removed and fed into a machine that determined how many times he exceeded the national speed limit. He would then have to pay a commensurate fine.
I think we need to extend the Bush Doctrine of Preventive War, to the realm of traffic laws. Instead of waiting for someone to run a red light, and possibly cause a fatal accident; we need to identify those most likely to transgress. Anyone with a performance car, anyone with a previous record, anyone who listens to fast Stevie Ray Vaughn guitar licks, would be delivered by extraordinary rendition to Pakistan, to be questions by our ‘allies.’ Or, perhaps, questioned by Sarah Palin at her church in Wasilla, and made to confess.
Big Brother is here. Homeland Security keeping us “safe”, the socializing of risk by taxpayers for cronies on Wall Street, and a crackdown on dissent. All that is left would be an official propaganda arm of the government, with paid propagandists. Oops. Fox News.
I’m OK with this kind of thing.. mostly. I think it should be used to catch red-light runners, road ragers, etc. But not for speeding. Everyone drives 10 over.. It would have come in handy a couple weeks ago when someone rear-ended some friends of mine while they were riding their scooter. The guy ran..
I’m not sure if I expect to not be spied on when I’m driving out in the open on public roads.
But they shouldn’t be privatized.. too much incentive for bogus tickets, ‘errors’ that happen in the company’s favor, etc.
I was ranting about this and my wife paused from her knitting and seriously suggested I replace my face with a blue dot.
I’m with no_slushbox
Flex your newly re-confirmed 2nd Amendment rights. At the cameras.
carlos.negros pretty much paints the complete picture.
Before reading my next sentence, remember: no one thinks their an idiot (but you know they are); no one thinks they’re a bad driver (but you know they are); no thief thinks he’s in the wrong (but he/she is); no murderer thinks he didn’t have a reason.
Similarly, no society thinks of itself as “bad”.
But looking strictly at the facts, one has to accept that after eight years of Bush & Co., America has all the classical ingredients of a fascist state.
Just facts, please don’t shoot the messenger.
No, this is not ok. And this is one of the few things that could get me to start a vigilante posse, with the sole purpose of vandalizing said devices, and if needed be, overthrow the state. Enough is enough. And America needs a revolution…
A few Brits have found a use for old tires and kerosene; it may “catch on” here as well.
Please. Give it a rest about Bush & Co. I’m NO Repugnican, but puh-leeeze.
Read the review of this book, and weep, you Democrats. Your “gang” is just as corrupt, and to blame, as the Republicans.
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-Constitution-American-Liberty/dp/0307405753/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221739210&sr=8-1
Face it. The only way out of this mess is to NOT vote for Repugnicans OR for Dhimmicrats. They are two sides of the SAME COIN.
Assuming, of course, that we have an election in November. (Not forgetting that Democrats are in control of 2 houses of Congress and ostensibly have a majority in the 3rd leg – the Courts, and Republicans are only in control of the Executive branch).
Or,do any of you think that Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin ran their respective murder-inc nations BY THEMSELVES? Stalin murdered 55 million of his own people, Hitler was a mere amateur – only 11 million (you only hear about the 6 million jews – better PR obviously works).
Albert Einstein said this; doing the same thing and expecting a different result is one definition of INSANITY.
It’s simply insane to vote in ANY Republicans or Democrats, assuming, that is, that we a) are given a chance to vote and b) have brains enough to stick together and boot out ALL of the current politicians over the next 8-12 years, replacing them with the flip-sides of a DIFFERENT coin (i.e. the Libertarians and Constitution Party).
Then in 100 or so years, our great grandchildren may well have to booth THEM out and start fresh.
When people start destroying the cameras the next step will be to classify the machines as officers of the law so that increased penalties can be assessed.
Seriously, those that sit by and not care will be the ones asking what happened when it is over.
Two things that sell are ‘Green’ and ‘Terra’.
faster_than_rabbit :
Civil libertarians: this is your moment. Seize it.
As soon as anyone seriously starts to discuss this you are shouted down by both the left and the right.
From the right the old “if you’re doing nothing wrong, what do you have to fear”? Always thought that was a hoot from the same people who want supreme court judges who interpret the constitution word for word. Not to mention you are unpatriotic and should leave the country.
From the left “what about the children”? These are the people who sit at the end of there driveway in an SUV with the engine running waiting for the school bus to ‘protect’ little Goober from something. They also make sure the kids have plenty of after school/weekend activities and, if you can afford it, a nanny because “mommy needs some mommy time”.
Seriously, those that sit by and not care will be the ones asking what happened when it is over.
Correct. Unfortunately, we have few solutions:
– vote somebody else into office. As memno pointed out, the Big 2 parties are quite similar on that, and even smaller parties are no panacea
– civil disobedience. Probably the most efficient, but it’s necessary to have a large group of people practicing it, and to get the attention of the media
– violent disobedience. More risky.
Hi AKM,
Well, which of your three is “viable” in this day and age?
Let’s ignore #1 momentarily.
#2 and #3 are pretty much the same. Since we can see how civil disobedience was reacted to at both the Republican convention (against violent greens, violent anarchists, violent leftists and violent anti-bushers) and Democrat convention (against ABC TV news crews filming who the special interest attendees were at a dinner, and against teen girls who’d been given permission to write anti-Abortion slogans in chalk on the sidewalk, for example) – arrest, harrassment, violence from state thugs (aka the now very militarized “police” in some cases).
We also have seen in the news lately how the state has at their disposal –
heat beams (anti-crowd)
tasers (don’t ask a politician the “wrong” question in a public forum or else!)
SWAT teams
Tear gas
Now, out of 1, 2 or 3 which has any chance of working?
As for the 3rd parties being no panacea – I’m not a Democrat and I don’t realistically expect “the gummint” to “fix EVERYTHING wrong with the world”.
I just want a government small enough, responsible enough and Constitutional enough to be afraid of we, the people instead of one which is so big and powerful that the people are terrified of IT.
Before we go blaming this on the Bush Administration, please note that the federal government does not take direct responsibility for traffic law enforcement.
It may give money to states to enforce laws, or it may dictate a standard (as it did with the 55 and 65 mph national speed limits, and currently does by mandating that states set the blood alcohol content limit for driving under the influence at .08, or face a loss of highway funds). Enforcement methods are left up to the individual states.
The federal government has not yet mandated the use of this type of monitoring technology, and when this technology is used, it will likely be adopted by STATE and LOCAL governments. And when it comes, it will be greeted as eagerly by liberal Democrats (Speed kills! Driving too fast is destroying the earth! Think of the children!… and other such baloney) as by more moderate Republicans (pandering to suburban soccer moms and the senior citizen crowd).
Libertarians and true conservatives are the ones who tend to fight the use of this type of traffic technology.
And focusing on whether corporations or government profits is a distraction from the bigger issue – mainly, the use of this technology in the first place. I don’t care whether corporations or local governments are raking in the money. I just want this stopped, period.
I don’t mind this up to a point. Red light cameras I think I’m ok with, provided the lights are properly timed. But that is strictly to mail a ticket to the offender, then it ends.
What is scary about this is the guy essentially saying that you can scan and file cars and essentially keep massive databases of vehicle patterns, where and when a driver travels, and then use that information for law enforcement (to catch criminals, amber alerts etc). This is when I start to have a problem. When things like this become more a tool to track movement, patterns, and follow people from camera to camera. Then it gets creepy.
On the other hand, Chicago (where I live) has quite a few cameras. I’m not sure how I feel about them either. If they’re used to guide police to the scene of a crime, maybe that’s ok. But if they’re following somebody down the street (even if, say, its just some pretty girl in a short dress), then no way. I also grew up in Idaho, and there is something very liberating about being able to walk around without feeling like someone MIGHT be watching you. On the other hand, if you are in a “dangerous” area, the same camera would make you feel safer than not. So which way are we gonna choose?
But that’s the problem. Where does it end? Tracking people’s movement without a warrant (oh that guy looks suspicious, I’ll just follow him awhile) or recording, storing, and analyzing everything isn’t right. Constant camera supervision, especially in public places, is incredibly eerie…just the possibility that you might be watched at that second for no reason trips me out.
Then again, private security has been in place forever. Gov’t takes our emails. They listen to our phone conversations. They use credit cards, cell phones, SS#’s to pretty much find out anything about us they might want. Does adding cameras really make a difference?
And are we just shy of something new and weird? What about when police first got police cars? Did people complain? Or when they were issued firearms? or began using radios and helicopters? guess to me the difference is that now there is enough storage for almost free that allows them to do it constantly and on a huge scale. You don’t fly a helicopter just to look around….you use it for a specific target. Cameras and hard drives mean they can easily, quickly, and cheaply watch anybody and store just about everything.
Very scary. Especially if things become as draconian as they appear to be in the UK.
no_slushbox :
September 17th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Well, not to get too political, but thank you Republicans for the brilliant notion that government duties are better outsourced to private corporations. Greed, amorality and incompetence are so much better than plain old incompetence.
Leave it to our friends the Democrats and there would be nothing in life that wouldn’t be a government duty. We’d end up with one big totalitarian state that has been tried and failed multiple times already around the world.
Airhen,
You mean like has happened over the last 7 years under Bush? The parties are different now – and the same in some aspects now.
It’s all well and good to frame the Nanny-Camera debate in civil liberties and doomsday Big Brother fascism.
We can go down the tin-foil hat argument and assume that our governments are out to get us.
Or we can raise our libertarian fists in indignation (carefully so as not to bonk each other in the nose) and debate the issue from a philisphical point of view.
But both miss the point.
This isn’t any diabolical plot. This is no political watershed.
It’s about MONEY.
It’s about the privatisation of PUNITARY FINES.
When private industry can come in to a local, county or state governing body and show a windfall “non-tax” cash stream, who among our elected officials can say no?
Every community right now is short of cash — deficit spent, in fact. As are your county and state governments. Every elected official knows that to raise your taxes is to invite electoral defeat.
So the next big thing…fine the scofflaws. That way, the elected official is both “law and order” and “no new taxes” all at the same time.
And the masses agree.
But we don’t at TTAC.
And it’s not entirely because we see a slippery slope of government intervention into our daily lives or spying upon our daily routines….that somehow this will someday lead to an abuse of power and we’ll be hauled off to the stalag.
It’s because WE LIKE TO SPEED. And we feel it is an inalienable right granted us when we got our driver’s license.
Admit it. I do.
And I’m a libertarian.
But there’s no fighting city hall. Especially when it’s found a new way to pay for itself.
I attended a Democratic platform meeting in my town, and there was some push for a 55mph speed limit. I think I convinced the people writing the results up that this was a bad idea. But the push for traffic regulation probably comes as much from the (grass roots) left as the (big business) right.
menno :
September 18th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Please. Give it a rest about Bush & Co. I’m NO Repugnican, but puh-leeeze.
Read the review of this book, and weep, you Democrats. Your “gang” is just as corrupt, and to blame, as the Republicans.
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-Constitution-American-Liberty/dp/0307405753/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221739210&sr=8-1
Face it. The only way out of this mess is to NOT vote for Repugnicans OR for Dhimmicrats. They are two sides of the SAME COIN.
Assuming, of course, that we have an election in November. (Not forgetting that Democrats are in control of 2 houses of Congress and ostensibly have a majority in the 3rd leg – the Courts, and Republicans are only in control of the Executive branch).
Or,do any of you think that Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin ran their respective murder-inc nations BY THEMSELVES? Stalin murdered 55 million of his own people, Hitler was a mere amateur – only 11 million (you only hear about the 6 million jews – better PR obviously works).
Albert Einstein said this; doing the same thing and expecting a different result is one definition of INSANITY.
It’s simply insane to vote in ANY Republicans or Democrats, assuming, that is, that we a) are given a chance to vote and b) have brains enough to stick together and boot out ALL of the current politicians over the next 8-12 years, replacing them with the flip-sides of a DIFFERENT coin (i.e. the Libertarians and Constitution Party).
Then in 100 or so years, our great grandchildren may well have to booth THEM out and start fresh.
Couple points:
1. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party (in general) are quite different. If you can’t tell the difference, you are as dumb as Nader.
2. The Republicans currently control the Supreme Court, more or less, and will have a firm hold on it if McCain becomes president (as the next presdient will certainly appoint at least one justice in the next four years).
3. Most importantly, voting for somebody other than the Republican or the Democrat, in 99.99% of races in the US, is a vote to not to vote, to not effect the outcome of the election. If you vote third party, you are saying that the two major party candidates are exactly alike and you really don’t give a shit, and therefore your wants and wishes can be safely ignored. The US, due to the way it’s voting system is set up (first-past-the-post with individual candidates running in specific races) means there will always be two dominate parties. If you want twenty parties to choose from, move to somewhere in Europe, which has a parlimentary system where you vote for the party, not the candidate.
Now, that doesn’t mean that the two parties have to be Democrats and Republicans. It’s certainly possible for one of them to disappear, and a new party to take it’s place. It’s happened before (albeit over a hundred years ago). So, if that’s what you want, you best choice would be to always vote for whichever party is currently dominating, in the hopes the other party completely collapses. Right now, that party is the Democrats. Prior to 2006, it was the Republicans, but that’s no longer the case.
Oh, one more thing-The best way to change the political parties is from the inside, via primaries. Pick a party that’s most like your thinking, and vote (and give your time and money to) candidates who think very closely to the way you think.
Domestic Hearse is right. It is about money. But there’s a purely political reason for it. For decades now, we’ve been bombarded with the idea that all taxes are bad, they are too high, they are evil, etc. Most of this has come from one party. In the revenue vacuum created by this collective unwillingness to properly fund (and make sure that funding is appropriate and correct), we have the whole notion of “user fees”, fines and unconventional revenue streams being legitimate lternatives to an honest discussion about what it takes to fund government at all levels. Couple this with the current paranoia about “security” and it’s no wonder that our civil liberties are being destroyed.
In my opinion we have no ones but ourselves to blame for this.
Civil libertarians: this is your moment. Seize it.
I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately, anything resembling civil libertarianism is being scrupulously avoided by both major presidential candidates. What deficit? What corporate welfare? What wiretapping? What staggeringly expensive Drug War? It’s all just so much pissing into the wind as far as the political mainstream is concerned. Not a good sign.