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At this week’s LA Auto Show Honda’s vice president of corporate planning and logistics told Marketwatch that Honda is considering expanding production of its popular Fit to the United States. “We have about 19 days worth of supply, which is much too low,” said Honda VP Dan Bonawitz. “We can’t fill all our dealer orders.” Honda is “exploring all options” to ramp-up Fit supply, Bonawitz said.
I have a 2008 Fit. It is about as much fun as one can have while still clothed.
When I was working on the Chevrolet/Opel Meriva project we received one of the 1st generation Fits (imported from somewhere as it was not yet available in Brazil) and after driving it for a while my boss just looked back at us and said:
“We are so NSFW-ed!”
It must feel good to be an American Honda worker.
My wife just bought one – it is ridiculously good – extremely practical and just a hoot to drive. While many of Honda’s recent offerings have me thinking they have completely lost their freaking minds: cough – TL – cough – the Fit is a a reassuring sign of sanity.
Dealer says they go fast. I know they always say that when they are trying to sell you a car, but when we signed the papers on a Wednesday, they had 7 fits. When we took delivery Sat. morning, they had 1.
Honda kept absolutely mum about doing Fits at their new Indiana plant. A lot of people figured moving the Fit to America would be pretty inevidable. There may not be a whole plant’s worth (200,000+) of sales in the Fit, but they should be able to shift over 100,000 without hurting their premium pricing.
There is still a lot of belt-tightening going on, temp workers are getting cut, there are a couple of filler weeks (base pay, no attendence bonus etc..) in the calandar. And most suppliers seem to be on a hiring freeze.. That said, no one’s acting very worried, mostly just waiting for how things shake out down Washington Way.
Here’s my proposal regarding the D2.5 bailout:
F@#k the presentation of “plans”. Have a Fit and an Aveo at the Capitol, and let our esteemed lawmakers spend 20 minutes driving each one. Then they decide whether GM is viable.
Love it Paul…LOVE it! :)
not to hijack this thread (you can all just ignore me–i’ll take the hint), but would someone care to address the issue of quality and quality control in u.s. built vs. japan built hondas? i just bought a 2009 accord (built in marysville, OH) friday night (as i type this it has 32 miles on it, bought with 3 on the odometer), and i had to test drive 3 and look inside and out at another 5-6 to find one that met my personal quality standards (i.e., no chips on the dash, misaligned body panels, and other, particularly interior, issues). and then once i got it home the first night, the porchlight caught it just right and i noticed a dribble below one of the doors that is apparently overspray of clearcoat than ran off–they say easy enough to fix, and i just may leave it be. it just bugs me on a brand new car. it seems my 2007 comparable model was put together better, at least initially (mind you, i had to take it in twice in the first few months for an annoying headliner rattle and then again for squealing brakes at 4000 miles; recently had to replace rear brakes at 20k miles). anyway, any thoughts on quality of domestic produced vs. japan built hondas, at least in terms of “initial quality”? (like i said, please just ignore this if it’s too far off topic.)
olivehead, some claim there’s no difference, but I still prefer the genuine (Japanese-built) article.
I love this car and was considering one til i found out there is no sunroof option. How can they offer Nav but no sunroof? But then i found out i may be unemployed in March so i’m gonna wait a year. I may still get a Fit, but the 2010 Fiesta will be a choice by then.
U.S. built cars suck from my personal experience…
Cousin’s 99 ML (Alabama) vs. 2001 E (Germany) – ML broke down years and years ago and was noisy/crude, E is still running flawlessly and like a tank. (we switch cars often so I’m familiar with both)
My own 09 Camry vs. 96 Camry… no contest on the interior quality and fit/finish. I’d take pictures of how shitty the new Camry if I had time.
Everything made in Japan/Germany is first-rate compared to the U.S. I think this explains why all Lexuses are Japan-built.
U.S. built Fit probably would work… it’s an economy car so people probably won’t expect much in terms of fit/finish.
And btw… comparisons to Aveo are unfair, since Fit costs alot more, %-wise.
My most problem-free dead-reliable cars over the years have all been made in Japan. Models made in the US and Canada from the same manufacturers have been good, but not as good. Not Volkswagon-bad, but not as good.
I can’t imagine passing on a car because it didn’t have a sunroof – but hey – people like what they like. I pass on cars that don’t offer stick shifts, so clearly I am part of some lunatic fringe.
“U.S. built Fit probably would work… it’s an economy car so people probably won’t expect much in terms of fit/finish.”
That sounds like the kind of mentality which perfectly explains why the Aveo is what it is.
Aveo vs. a Fit? Where’s GM Car? I see a Daewoo and a Honda…
There’s one Lexus model built outside Japan – there’s an RX line in one of Toyota’s Canadian plants.
Hard to say exactly olivehead. I don’t have access to standards. However, there is a sliding scale of just what paint flaws can pass (used to work for a paint supplier). The scale isn’t very wide, it runs from “miniscule” to “absolutely nothing”.
There is also the location. From the sound of it, you had a flaw on the lowest part of the door, that is the area with the most “leeway” (not likely to be seen by the customer, and likely covered in muck half the time anyway). Domestic Accords have more leeway than exports or TLs (though not by very much). In my experience, they tend to be very strict about drips, (though that flaw tends to make trouble for the applicators not the suppliers).
My colleagues (who had also supplied B3 plants) didn’t think Honda was in any degree perfect, but they did think they were on a different level for attacking problems. They also published a lot of QC statistics internally (I know, I collected them), and have a running total of cars made and percent “straight-shipped” (no off-line repairs) all over the plant. Another thing they found odd.
romanjetfighter:
1. The ML was known for quality problems, and it is unrelated to the E class so location is not the issue, it was just poorly engineered and yes perhaps in a under trained plant. But you can’t compare them both.
2. Toyota has cheapened the current Camry to a very noticeable extent which was also told in the TTAC review (among others). The majority of Camry’s from the 90’s were built in Kentucky. Cheapened parts (interior quality) is all Toyota’s doing… not location.
Hype is a “turn-off” for me!! So can someone please explain to me what the big deal is with the Fit.
Out of curiousity, I test drove an 08′ (auto) a few months back and found it to be a good small car. Nothing more and nothing less!! It’s not like I started dancing with exicitement at the conclusion of the test drive.
*Perhaps a manual tranny drastically transforms the Fit’s personality.
For what it’s worth, my family and I have had zero problems with the domestically assembled Toyotas. I don’t know if it’s much different with Honda, but both companies seem to treat their employees well (despite the non-unionization clause of their respective contracts), which means that they’re more likely to take pride in their work.
@1169hp:
A manual is pretty much mandatory for the Fit, if you want amusement. I think the “big deal” goes well beyond driving dynamics (the ride in particular needs some tweaking). Rather it is the amount of thought crammed into every aspect of the package. That being said, I have a growing list of issues with the 09, but I am saving them for Jonny’s eventual review.
This is good, but I’m still waiting for my Fit Si. I’ve got my deposit warmed up and waiting.
thanks to everyone who addressed my comments and questions re: u.s. vs. japan built hondas. like i said, i may leave that clearcoat “drip” alone on my accord, given the location (i’m sure there’s not another soul who’ll ever notice it, and i discovered it after i got home only by a fluke; went over the thing with a microscope–i thought–before i left the dealer and just didn’t see it).
i happened to look at a fit interior while at the dealer, and have to say that, while it’s still a notch or two above the competition, it’s still disappointing in terms of materials and fit & finish. the nicest interior i happened to see at my dealer was in a decked-out odyssey minivan with leather and the works. go figure. (btw that one happened to have a “J” prefix VIN.)
another btw: i considered an ’09 camry but was put off by the styrene-like plastic inside and, it so happens, by the lack of a hand brake. when i park at work i almost always set the parking brake, and the thought of depressing that foot parking brake every day just turned me off. too much like my ’99 and ’02 tauruses (which it so happens i took to 98,000 miles before being totalled by a red light running college kid and 102,000 miles before it started acting up and i traded it in on my ’07 accord, respectively).
I have a 08 manual Fit, very pleased with it.
I think the excitement over the Fit is some part hype, but its also the leading example of a small car that isn’t treated as a whip for pizza delivery. It feels like a “real” car, its pretty peppy and it’s fun to drive. If you drive one a lot you’ll find yourself doing things as a matter of course that would seem very dangerous or cause tire peeling in larger cars. A lot of people have been trained to see subcompacts as the automotive equivalent of coach, so when a car doesn’t go that way it gets more praise than perhaps it should.
And btw… comparisons to Aveo are unfair, since Fit costs alot more, %-wise.
Just ran a truedelta comparison 5 speed manual Fit hatch vs Aveo hatch. Aveo was $50 less. As a percent of $14K USD price that is less than 1% price difference.
The only thing Washington could do to level the playing field would be to slap a 30% tariff on the Fit. But if The Fit were manufactured in Indiana I guess the UAW would first have to lobby for Indiana to be expelled from the US.
Honda, good on you guys! GM? Quit sitting on your hands(thumbs) and start taking notes.
I drove a ’09 Fit Sport with navigation last weekend. We are looking to replace my spouses CRV in the spring. Needless to say she liked it as much as I do. After test driving five other vehicles it was easy to say the Fit was the hands down winner. The cargo versatility, standard safety features, fit and finish, seat comfort, and MPG are all unmatched. Take a look for yourselves.
The RX indeed comes from Canada, and quality remains very good for that car. On the other hand, the GS has always come from Japan, and the latest generation is a piece of junk, so bad it was the first Lexus to lose the “recommended” rating from CR I think in the history of the brand.
It’s not just the ML, the M-B Alabama plant is infamous for bad quality. Everything that comes out of there is going to fall apart, though from about 1999-2006, the M-Bs out of Germany were pretty much the same. A 2001 E-class that does anything right is pretty much a miracle. The early stuff out of BMW’s South Carolina plant wasn’t much better, but they seemed to have cleaned up their act at least somewhat lately.
I’m still calling it the Jazz.
I wonder if the Fiesta can compete with it.
Without the stick, the fun factor of the Fit is seriously diminished, IMHO.
@ Paul Niedermeyer; Why not an Insight (which exists) versus a Mablibu hybrid or a Volt?
My wife has a 2008 Fit (5 speed) and it is a hoot to drive. Finally really learned to drive stick in it. Is it worth they “hype”? Maybe not. But it has a revvy willing engine, definitely tossable, no blind spots, and plenty of cargo room with the seats down.
But stay away from the slushbox. The 115ish HP engine has nothing to give up.
If you think the Aveo and Fit are at different price levels, lets compare the Fit and the G3 then. The G3’s base price is actually 500 bucks more than the Fit.
I wonder if Honda is taking a page from Nintendo’s play book. If you keep supply well below demand, people will pay above invoice and the media will keep talking about your product. I am a Honda owner and love it, but I feel like the hype around the fit is semi-artificial. I can wait for the hype to die down before going to buy one. Dealers will be demanding well over invoice under current conditions.
Fit vs. Aveo…further evidence that the Big 3 just don’t “get it.” And they continue to want bailouts? I bought a 2006 Fusion six months ago (it was cheap, had the five-speed/sunroof with steering mounted radio controls) and can really tell the difference in quality. Perceived quality gap my hind-quarters! The steering wheel is already delamenating (the glue used to hold the foam to the metal ring gave way and I can twist the rubber around the top of the wheel) and the “chrome” foil on the interior door handle is also bubbling. But given that I paid $11,000 for a two-year old sedan makes me kinda look past the issues…to a degree. Sen. Levin’s comments over the weekend that the Big 3 were “holding their own” against the competition for market share was a bunch of crap. If Honda sticks to great cars like the Fit, Detroit’s hosed. We can only hope that the new Fiesta comes over and does well…then, maybe (just maybe) we’ll see an “American” nameplate that shows it can compete again.
N8iveVA : Webasto makes an excellent drop-in moonroof, and I’m sure they have one that will “fit” in a fit.
Perceived quality gap my hind-quarters! The steering wheel is already delamenating (the glue used to hold the foam to the metal ring gave way and I can twist the rubber around the top of the wheel) and the “chrome” foil on the interior door handle is also bubbling. But given that I paid $11,000 for a two-year old sedan makes me kinda look past the issues…to a degree. Sen. Levin’s comments over the weekend that the Big 3 were “holding their own” against the competition for market share was a bunch of crap.…
Interesting to note that on CNN Money, there was an article quoting Consumer Reports on this topic. Basically, CR said that Ford’s car (not SUV) reliability is now, statistically speaking, in the same class as Toyota and Honda. Reliability and quality, while intertwined, are not the same of course, but this coming from a magazined known as Japanese Reports was quite interesting. I personally don’t put much stock in CR; some of my “worse than average” cars have been legends in long term durability. Wonder if TrueDelta’s data matches what was said about Ford. Regarding Mercedes, I noticed in CR they have improved significantly, too, although they seem to have a long way to go. I still don’t buy the relative quality scale that CR uses. A car that rated much better 10 years ago would be worse than average today. The owner 10 years ago no doubt crowed about how reliable his car was, yet today he would turn his nose up at it, stating that is a piece of junk. By this measurement of quality, if all cars suddenly were as reliable as the vehicle with the highest rating, all would be rated average. The model that once rated best would fall to middle of the road, its rating seeming to plummet, when in fact it is just as good as it ever was.
Well I don’t know about Honda dealers in your neck of the woods, but the one in my town was only adding 90 bucks for “wheel locks” on the 09s. When I bought mine just before gas prices peaked and they literally could not keep the Fit on the lot they were asking the invoice price. They wouldn’t go down at all, but they weren’t trying to pump it up.
Regarding the where-built question. We bought new a 1989 Mazda 323 (made in Japan) which was essentially the same car as the Ford Escort (made in California). The Escorts had very high warranty claims whereas the Mazdas had almost none. Apart from maintenance we spent $40 on repairs before it was wrecked at just under 100k miles. Most of the Escorts were off the road by then.
During the 1990s heyday of business process re-engineering (BPR), the Mazda/Ford discrepancy became a standard talking point. After investigation, Ford/Mazda discovered that at the U.S. plant machinists would finish parts to the outside of the tolerance. So, if the tolerance were +/- .0005, they would machine to .0005 then go on to the next part. They could get it to exactly .0005 every time. Their goal was for the part to be in spec. In the Japanese plants, the machinists would finish to zero, not to +/- .0005. Their goal was to get it dead on. Note that the American machinists were just as accurate (always coming to exactly .0005), but the culture at the plant to be good enough, not to shoot for perfection.
Naturally, if all the parts in an engine are +/- .0005 the cumulative effect will lead to higher failures.
We currently have a 2002 Honda Odyssey (one of the very first from the Alabama plant) which is approaching 100k and has been absolutely reliable.
Disclaimer: numbers from memory and just meant to be illustrative.
Honda only has a 19-day supply of Fits?!
That stands in stark contrast to the ~150-day supply of GM’s cars. GM could shut down for 3 months and nobody would notice.
Hmm, the lack of a bailout request from Honda is deafening.
Why do people love the fit? Because it is the ultimately USEFUL car for not much money…
There are only two trim levels (+nav), with even the base being a real car with real amenities, so buying it is simple.
It is inexpensive without feeling cheap.
It is comfortable for two easily, four happily for such a small car.
It drives well. Not a sports-car mind you, but it does drive well.
And the utility factor is off the charts. You can pack so much stuff in it…
It is just a well designed vehicle for MAXIMUM utility at minimum cost.
Naturally, if all the parts in an engine are +/- .0005 the cumulative effect will lead to higher failures.
This just is not true. If all the parts for an engine were designed to have 0.001 tolerances then the engine will work perfectly even if every single part is off +/- 0.001. If the engine could not operate with tolerances of +/- 0.001 the designers would call out a tighter tolerance.
The real difference in Japanese vs US manufacturing is all about quality control. Its about making absolutely sure that all your parts are all within the stated tolerances. The Japanese are world leaders in stuff like high precision high accuracy measuring devices and quality control, re: Mitutoyo.
My gut instinct is that there is zero quality difference between a Honda plant in Japan and a Honda plant in the US. If you institute the same quality control procedures in both places then the nationality of the workforce becomes meaningless. If your quality control is the same at both plants then the parts are either in spec or out of spec and it doesn’t matter if the parts were made by Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Robots, Aliens, or my Dog Spot.
Olivehead…None of the N.A. market Odyssey’s are assembled in Japan.
From what I’ve seen (as a Honda tech, I look at a bunch of cars at PDI) none of the ’08-up Accords are as nicely finished/assembled as the previous generation. Even the JHM Accords have their share of poor “fit” (pun intended) especially in the interiors. I think Honda is following Toyota into “cheaping-out” their interiors.
I for one am glad I have a 2008 Fit. The last year of a long production run is always the best. This car is made for a manual, the automatic sucks the life out of it.
Regarding inventories, Honda works on a “pull” system, where the dealers order cars and Honda builds them. Toyota is the same way, so they never get caught with huge inventories. The domestics (if that term applies) work on a “push” system,” where the cars are built and then sent to the dealers, who have to sell them.
I have had my Fit a year. So far, it has been to the dealer for two oil changes and a tire rotation. I came out promptly, washed and vacuumed. The dealer staff was courteous. There was free coffee, newspapers and current magazines. There was even HDTV.
I won’t even get into my GM dealer experiences.