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The Porsche vs. Nissan catfight over Nurburgring lap times has done more to publicize both company’s products than anything else. Besides, as Chris Harris of Driver’s Republic puts it, “Nurburing lap times… say far more about the conditions of the track and (fortitude) of the driver… than they do the vehicle in question.” Still, Harris was drawn to recreate the battle, pitting Porsche GT2 against Nissan GTR on the Nordschleife. Driver’s Republic presents the experiment in its online-magazine format, which brings high-quality photos, video, words and telemetric data together in one highly entertaining read. Check it out.
Considering this was done in the wet, it certainly doesn’t say much about Porsche’s best efforts with the GT-R in the dry at 7:54. I am also not sure that this proves or disproves anything as it was done with different tires, driver and under different track conditions. What it does continue to prove is that the GT-R is a great value sports car.
Wow, it takes a real man to drive these cars around the ‘Ring in cold, damp conditions at sub-8 minute times and still call himself a girl for not extracting the full potential of these cars. The important thing is not the times, but the insight. Great article.
The Porsche is a bit faster.
But…as the article says in closing comments, the Nissan has four seats, shifts it’s own gears, and is much heavier and costs a ton less money (not to mention has a real trunk).
Track performance aside, they’re hardly even comparable vehicles.
But…as the article says in closing comments, the Nissan has four seats, shifts it’s own gears, and is much heavier and costs a ton less money (not to mention has a real trunk).
To be fair, the Porsche and Nissan both have notional back seats. They’re functional two-seaters with not a lot of trunk space. But the general point is true, the Nissan is more a front-engine Gallardo competitor. The Corvette is a more natural competitor for the 911, and pistolwhips it on the value front, too.
I think the GT2 is similar to the GT3 in that it does not have back seats. They have been removed to save weight and there might be a partial roll cage in the space.
You beat me to it. The GT2 has no rear seats. I’m pretty sure the guy who drove them both around for two days would not have missed that detail.
I want to know why the “Nurburgring” does not have a space between “Nurburg” and “ring”.
I’ve said it before: The data for the GT-R doesn’t match up with Nissan’s lap time.
This article may not be definite proof, but it’s a strong indication, as the auther himself says towards the end. He cannot see how Nissan could have done their laptime with this car.
I want to know why the “Nurburgring” does not have a space between “Nurburg” and “ring”.
Have you seen the German phrase for “speed limit”? Or street names? It’s like a whole culture that never discovered the space bar.
Can’t we just program the acceleration curves and tire parameters into Forza and settle it there?
It’s like a whole culture that never discovered the space bar.
ha! that made my day. but if you can break the word up into its component “root words” (thats the best way i can think to describe it), then its really no harder than any other language, with the exception being all the difficult pronunciations.
if you ever want to make yourself sound like an idiot, try and say “eichhörnchen.” possibly the most difficult word to pronounce correctly. ever. ;-)
I always thought of German–which I spoke before I ever spoke English–as freighttrainwords.
if you ever want to make yourself sound like an idiot, try and say “eichhörnchen.” possibly the most difficult word to pronounce correctly. ever. ;-)
hmmm. Ike – herhn – shen. close? :-)
I think this is a strong attempt at an objective review. However, as there is no such thing as “official” ring times, we simply will never know the whole TRUTH.
I don’t see why the manufactures don’t meet up for a showdown, with an independent third party around to keep things on the up and up, and answer this once and for all. Then again, if they did, all this noise and speculation would stop. :-)
Track performance aside, they’re hardly even comparable vehicles.
The old 930 owner’s manual recommended flooring the car at least once a week, whereas Nissan is deleting launch control because “[They] just don’t want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore.”
Excellent picture.
I now have a very good idea what The Stig’s left nipple looks like.
I never bought the Nissan lap time. No way without non-street tires. But my larger problem is the constant price advantage arguments in favor of the GTR. Does anyone actually think that Nissan is making a profit on this car – that they can do that much R&D and use that much carbon fiber for less than $100k? That is just not credible. More likely, Nissan loses money on each car, absorbing the loss for the marketing advantages provided by such a flagship car. On the other hand, Porsche makes a profit on every GT2 it sells – they have to. The company is too small to take a loss on any car.
Oh, for heaven’s sake, why should the manufacturers “meet up for a showdown”? That’s called racing, which is what Porsche has been doing for 60 years. When I start seeing swarms of GT-Rs at the Daytona 24 Hours and Le Mans, I’ll listen (having already put five days and a thousand miles on a GT-R).
Until then, there’s a very basic difference between Porsches and Nissans. It was interesting, in the Driver’s Republic article, that they said the GT-R’s brakes were fading after a full lap while the Porsche’s were just fine.
Reminds me of track days awhile ago when guys brought those enormous Mitsubishi 3000 turbocars. They’d do a lap at Road America and their brakes were cooked. The stock, owner-driven Porsches ran hour after hour.
I don’t understand the comparison between the GT2 and the GT-R. RWD stripper vs. an AWD road-car? Please. There is definitely a difference in focus between these cars. A more apt comparison to me would be the GT-R vs. the equally luxurious, road-intended, AWD, 911 Turbo.
Hand one of each to Sabine for an afternoon, and be done with it.
Brake fade after a couple laps? Seriously, big time poseurmobile. In the world of real racing, as opposed to a glorified petrol pissing contest, I expect Porsche would play Mistress to Nissan’s slave.
Better yet, for a better comparison, take the total time for five full flying laps. I’d like to see if the GT-R even makes it that far without communing with the local flora and fauna.
It was the GT-R that experienced brake fade, not the Porsche. Or maybe I’m just not up on whether a mistress is better than a slave, having been married for 30 years…
And we’re still not understanding the difference between a Nuburgring lap and racing. Don’t hand them to Sabine, hand one to Dyson and the other one to Penske for a season.
a great read and 2 really fine cars – but the GTR is the better value when all is considered, even if it is a tiny bit slower
@matt :
November 24th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
if you ever want to make yourself sound like an idiot, try and say “eichhörnchen.” possibly the most difficult word to pronounce correctly. ever. ;-)
It works the other way around too:
Didn’t the British use that tactic to uncover German spies in WW2? No matter how good they spoke English, no German could pronounce “squirrel” correctly.
(squirrel=Eichhörnchen, quick, what’s that in French?)
The Mistress is the dominant partner, with the slave being subordinate. Thus, the analogy to Posrche’s dominance, especially in light of brake fade on the Nissan’s part, is an apt one (at least in my brain).
I understand, and agree completely, with your notion of competing in racing to realy test both cars out fully. I’d love to see a Dakar prepped verson of each head out across the desert too, but I already know who would win that as well. My reasoning for handing both the GT-R and the 911 Turbo to Sabine would simply be to add another level of comparability and consistentcy to the ‘ring equation. Not that lapping the ‘ring is a good inicator of the car’s overall competitiveness. I would think that she could get a better level of consistent performance from each car, due to her intimate familiarity with the track, and at the end of the day we could put this silly thing to rest.
Mind you, I’m sure that even after she wrung the best out of each, there would still be argument from both sides.
Does anyone understand that Nissan has already won by having the GT-R in the same sentence as the 997 GT2 arguably the best 911 ever made?
Brakes: For the price difference you could have a $100K racing braking system installed on the GT-R and still come-in under the GT2.
Racing reliability: Maybe with the GT1 block (996 & 997 Turbo, GT2 & GT3) but the M96 block in the price comparable GT-R vs. 1999-2008 911, is no Honda.
Rant over
It works the other way around too:
Didn’t the British use that tactic to uncover German spies in WW2? No matter how good they spoke English, no German could pronounce “squirrel” correctly.
they could have just quizzed them really quickly on when to use “this” and when to use “that.” i have yet to meet a german who can use the “correct” one every time. most of the time, its the exact opposite of what i would think it would be.
and just to nitpick, but shouldn’t it be “nürburgring”?