It’s insane. Chrysler and GM’s executives run their companies into the ground, shedding billions of dollars worth of shareholder value, destroying tens of thousands of jobs, sucking-up taxpayer funds, and the public gets all bent out of shape about a couple of jet flights. Still, point taken. And TTAC can now reveal that two Pentastar chartered jets (a former Chrysler subsidiary) took off from Oakland County International Airport on the morning of December 2, two days before the hearings wherein Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli appeared before Congress. (where all three Detroit auto execs made a big deal about driving to the hearing and arrived on the Hill in their company’s hybrid vehicles.) A Gulfstream G550 [aircraft pictured above], left at approximately 6 a.m. A Gulfstream IV [$5700 per hour], left at 8:45 a.m. Both planes flew to Teterboro Airport, NJ. Both planes were carrying Chrysler executives. We have reason to believe Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli was on board one of the planes.
Chrysler PR has been questioned about Nardelli’s trip to Washington. Other than the fact that he was accompanied by a single, unidentified person, Chrysler has refused to provide any details of the journey: vehicle used, itinerary, etc. Nothing. In contrast, both Ford CEO Alan Mullaly and GM CEO Rick Wagoner’s journeys were well documented.
We have full details of these Chrysler Pentastar flights and information on one other made on the same day. We also know there’s a recording of the communications between the tower and the planes, which is scheduled for erasure. (We urge Oakland Airport not to destroy this tape.) In any case, we call on Chrysler to provide full details of Mr. Nardelli’s travel arrangements to the hearing.
Again, we’re aware that this is not the issue upon which Chrysler should be judged. However, Chrysler’s stonewalling on Mr. Nardelli’s travel arrangements on this date—and their point blank refusal to name the original or current investors in the company—establish a clear pattern of obfuscation. Chrysler currently has a $3b federal loan. It’s asking for $4b more. Until and unless Chrysler and Cerberus provide full transparency on these and other matters, those funds should not be provided.
So?
Chrysler is circling the drain. Minimum Bob needs to be working around the clock to attempt to save it. He can stay connected by phone and internet while on a private jet, so he can keep working the entire time. He can’t do that while cooling his heels in the airport or on board a commercial airliner. He can’t have confidential conversations about potential mergers while at the gate — he can while on board a private jet.
I despise Nardelli and think he was perhaps the worst person to hire as Chrysler CEO. He is the prototypical example of the overpaid, imperial CEO. But this private jet jihad could be politely termed “misguided.”
I can certainly appreciate that point of view (see: earlier post). But, from a symbolic POV, I also understand the public’s, uh, frustration.
IF Nardelli had stood up and said “screw you this is how I roll,” well, fair enough. But he didn’t. If this information is correct, Nardelli snuck into DC and pretended he drove all the way from Motown. And then lied about it.
That ain’t right.
More smoke and mirrors from Cerberus. Shocked I am.
Too bad that other than us here, precious few people seem to give a shit about this. The people who ought to care but don’t are too busy figuring out who they’ll vote for on American Idol, following whether Rhianna was slapped around by her masogonistic boyfriend, or are obsessed with octomom.
Government is a reflection of the electorate. Ergo, we suck, have ADD and need to be Chris Brown’d around ourselves.
“screw you this is how I roll,” would have been cool.
Of course RN was was on that plane, and of course it was taking his affiliates to Manhattan.
Publicity Stunt: Yes
Lied to Publicity Stunt: Yes
Suprised: No.
This in the grand scheme of things: Pretty Minor.
Maybe he figured his ride couldn’t make it all the way from Detroit to Washington. I mean I wouldn’t want to be in an Aspen Hybrid that whole way
were they sworn in? If so, Nardelli deserves the A-Rod treatment. It’s a felony to lie to Congress under oath.
Since it’s easier to nail jello to a wall than to hold these douchebags to account, why not make him squirm? Why not force him to admit his definition of “driving to Washington” meant from NYC, rather than from Detroit.
If hairs are to be split, let them be the ones on Nards head.
The G550 is a damn fine aircraft. If I had access to one I’d fly it – everywhere….
Nardelli and Cerberus as relates to Chrysler are both complete jokes and very bad ones at that. As soon as they both depart scene Chrysler’s chances of survival increase exponentially. Hopefully soon, good riddance to bad rubbish. Should Chrysler survive first Daimler’s proving their cluelessness about running a high volume domestic manufacturer and now Cerberus and Nardelli’s dog and pony show it will be MBA textbook fodder for the ages. Pity the poor Chrysler workers stuck in the middle of this mess.
These guy obviously do not “get it ” its just throwing good money after bad , as a brit it reminds me so much of the “Leyland ” problem in England in the 1980s , poor quality , cars nobody wants
to buy , company exec’s living with their heads in the clouds !
wake up AMERICA you are taken for a ride !
This does stink. Keep pushing on this, Farago.
As has been noted, it’s pretty meaningless in the overall scheme of things. But if Nardelli did not drive from Detroit to Washington, I think he has lied and should be fired.
(I disagree on the ownership details of Cerberus, though. Nothing requires Chrysler or Cerberus to divulge that. In fact, I suspect that Cerberus agreed with its investors and co-investors to keep that confidential. If Congress were to require Cerberus to give those details, that would be another thing. Congress has not.)
I’m conflicted.
On the one hand, I want the experience of ripping the taxpayer off to be as humiliating as possible. This assumes they have a sense of shame, which is by no means proven.
On the other hand, this ends up in more government intrusion into private business. After all, we, the government, allow you to keep some of ‘your’ money, so we are entitled to be as nosy as possible.
quickly file for FOIA on FAA tapes, that will stop their destruction.
If Nardelli was “jet-pooling” with other Cerebus executives perhaps this can be overlooked.
My concern is that all private jet travel is being painted with a broad brush as being excessive. And that judgement is being made by government officials that have no idea what business reasons can be made. (Barney Frank wouldn’t know a good business decison – he’s usually grandstanding) There are some circumstances where it could be justified.
I don’t know that the FAA tapes will tell you anything about who was onboard.
FYI…I don’t think Pentastar still exists. And Robert…looks like you are going “Geraldo” on your audience. I agree with “Point Given” – this (if true) is pretty minor at best.
“masogonistic “–Hates women but likes it when they beat him up?
The point is not that Nardelli took a private jet ride (if he did). As Farago noted, the point is that he led people to believe that he was foregoing the private jet the second time around and instead making his way to Washington in a Chrysler car. If he did not do that, he lied. That’s the issue. Lying.
I agree with those who defend a company’s right to use a private jet. If they want to do that, fine. That’s just one of the decisions that any company’s management has to make. Different people think differently about whether private jets are an extravagance or a good use of funds. And having different opinions is usually good.
In Silicon Valley, you can see a range of opinions on this kind of thing. Intel famously puts everyone from the CEO on down in a cubicle (although some cubicles are very different from others). And Sequoia Ventures says it almost never invests in companies who buy paperclips (they think you should instead re-use paperclips you get off incoming mail).
It’s not because these things make a big difference to the bottom line. It’s because they show a certain mindset, something that will matter. And matter a lot.
It didn’t matter that much that Tom Daschle didn’t pay some taxes. He did eventually, with interest. Nor did it matter that much if Nardelli hitched a ride on a company jet that was going to New York anyway.
But we need to know the truth about these things to judge people properly. Lies or deception will not work.
So I think you are right on on this one, Farago. As people have pointed out, though, you need to be careful about making accusations based on speculation rather than proof. So keep trying to pin Chrysler down on this. Keep pushing them.
If Nardelli has nothing to hide, that will come out, and you should back off. If he did hitch a ride on the jet, though, we should know that. I, for one, think Nardelli should be fired if he did that. Not for riding the jet. But for lying about it.
Ihave often wondered why, Mulally, Nardelli & Lutz or was it Waggoner, could not jetpool to Washington?
That would give them the flexibility & time-saving they need and still say to the public we are trying to reduce costs.
Can’t you see them all hunkered down in various corners texting like mad to their underlings and then bullshitting one another.
Guess that is too simple a plan for such a complicated issue.
Robert,
I’m not sure if you know this, but here goes:
Pentastar aviation is a private company with no affiliation to Chrysler. In fact, its owned by one — get this — Edsel Ford. It USED to be part of Chrysler, but not anymore.
Pentastar is the major executive charter service, flying from Oakland airport.
I’ve flown on their aircraft many times, and several of these trips were, shall we say, for things that were not quite ready for public consumption.
And that is how ALL executives roll when large sums of money and investor expectations are involved.
I would NEVER expect to have my name or my destination revealed to anyone when on one of those flights unless I chose to do so, anymore than I would expect to have to tell anybody where I’m going when I get in my car.
For what it’s worth, their charter rates are quite reasonable, and when several passengers are on the same plane, the overall cost is competitive with commercial, especially to expensive destinations like NYC and DC.
I assume you have received the proper legal advice on revealing private information about what appears to be completely proper use of a chartered aircraft by a private organization.
It’s so not hard to believe that Nardelli would be the one to pull this. From his onanistic admiration of his cellar full of wine in California to NY to DC in 9 hours, a for a public hand out…Someone needs to go CSI on his ass…is their videotape of him deplaning at Teterboro? I want the smoking gun on this and I want congress to nail his ass. I also want a decently appointed RWD 200C for under $19000. Oh well.
Proof Robert?
I mean, TheRealAutoGuy has posted that Pentastar is a charter service completely unrelated to Chrysler. It wasn’t clear in your original post whether the jets were Chrysler jets or Pentastar jets. (which, in this case, makes a huge difference)
BTW, Nardelli has the scratch to pay for the flight out of his pocket without breaking a sweat.
Debunked:
http://www.pentastaraviation.com/showPage.php?cachevar=&menuID=481
This has no relation to Chrysler.
I assume you have received the proper legal advice on revealing private information about what appears to be completely proper use of a chartered aircraft by a private organization.
What legal exposure do you see? There’s none here I can see.
I like trijets. This country would be better off if I had a trijet. Only Dassault makes them, you say? Frog legs soup, please.
Rest assured that this report is based on rock solid information. If it wasn’t, it would be published under the “wild ass rumor” category.
As far as TTAC’s legal status in this matter is concerned, I appreciate your concern. But this flight information is NOT legally shielded. And even if it was, I would not shy away from telling the truth about cars, or, in this case, the people who make them on the taxpayer’s nickel.
It’s who we are. It’s what we do.
Robert-
Please answer the question as to whether or not these were Chrysler jets or Pentastar jets. If they were Pentastar jets, then there is no reason to believe that Nardelli was on board. Go to the link I posted above; Pentastar has both jets that you mentioned. Without having a flight plan (which Pentastar blocks access to for privacy reason) we have no reason to believe what has been posted above.
I can also confirm that Pentastar has no affiliation to Chrysler, except possibly as a supplier of contract transport services. Edsel Ford has done a wonderful job of creating a (previous) viable business model for companies that cannot justify owning a bizjet outright.
Edsel bought Pentastar from Chrysler several years ago after DCX got sick of ferrying Lido Iacocca around under his “use of bizjets for life” clause in his severance package. I suspect that Lido and Kirk Kerkorians attempt to seize control of Chrysler several years ago was a revenge move, as Iacocca thought being banished to commercial flights was tantamount to taking a bus.
http://www.pentastaraviation.com
Robert, it as much a private jet as any charter plane is. In fact, it is quite possible that others unrelated to Chrysler were sharing the ride. When I flew on a Pentastar plane, there were 3 unrelated groups on board.
This is a non-story, in my opinion.
Pentastar Aviation LLC was founded as DaimlerChrysler Aviation in 1979, and was renamed as Pentastar Aviation LLC in 2001. The company is based in Waterford, Michigan. Pentastar Aviation LLC is a former subsidiary of Daimlerchrysler AG.
I will amend the text accordingly. But it doesn’t change the overall point of this story. It’s a private jet. Did Nardelli fly in it to get to DC or did he not?
BTW: one of the jets in question is for sale.
Two Chrysler jets flying to Teterboro is not the same as two Charter jets doing the same thing.
Kinda makes a page one story a section c story.
Yeah, no offense Robert, but unless you post ALL of the proof you have, including documented flight movements, this is all a non-story. (I also doubt you have the flight movements, as pentastar blocks all data related to the movements of their jets)
It would be a mighty different story if these were Chrysler-owned jets, but since anyone with the cash can charter these, who knows who was on that jet on Dec. 2.
rmwill:
I disagree. When Nardelli flew the to the bailout beg-a-thon the first time, the plane was chartered. $5k an hour in a company jet or an ex-company jet is still some serious cash.
These hairs were not split at the time of the controversy. Nor should they have been.
Focus, gentlemen. THIS is the story [via Reuters]:
“Chrysler LLC says Chief Executive Robert Nardelli will not fly on a corporate jet when he returns to Washington next week for Congressional hearings on government loans for the auto industry.
Spokeswoman Lori McTavish says the company is exploring options for travel including driving or commercial flights.”
But where’s the proof Robert? Saying, ‘oh this jet left from here on the same day as the hearings’ is all circumstantial. Unless you can show us the flight plans and the documented movements, it isn’t a story.
Robert, with all due respect, you haven’t even proved he flew on this chartered flight.
Also, I know my seat on Pentastar to Atlanta was far less than 5k/hour. Far far less.
rmwill:
I have no idea what you paid to fly on these aircraft, but the cost of chartering those planes is $5k an hour.
And with all due respect, I cannot reveal all my sources for this story. I have made a circumstantial case here because I cannot reveal all the information I have available at this time, in order to protect those sources.
I will reveal more as and when I can do so.
Meanwhile, where there’s smoke…
Where’s the proof that Nardelli drove to DC? Why would Chryser/Cerberus NOT provide ANY information about the trip? Both Ford and GM made a big deal of it. Is Nardelli just naturally reticent? You might think so, but forgive me for not sharing such a favorable interpretation.
Just because the elected phonies made an issue of how the execs got to DC doesn’t mean it’s THE issue or even AN issue that’s important. It’s like a magician who distracts us with one hand while doing his magic stuff with the other. Same goes for yesterday’s bullshit session with the bank execs. The on-the-take guys and girls up in their high seats making a big deal of raking the execs over the coals wasn’t the issue. What should have been the issue regarding the banks and the broader collapse we’re seeing is how did it come to be that Congress passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act which rolled back the Glass-Steagall act thereby letting the financial snakes run wild and here we are. But they don’t want to go there, so they bring up these distractions and we’re distracted. Actually they’re giving us way more credit than we deserve. If they’d just leave out the theatre the TV cameras would be elsewhere and we wouldn’t even know about any of this. We’re more than happy occupying our inquisitive little brains tsk-tsking A-Rod for doing what a near-majority, or maybe overwhelming majority, of the public has done. But it all makes us feel better as we collapse into the pile of shit we’re becoming.
This story (or non-story, as some people see it) has caught my interest.
Does anyone know if Chrysler has (or had) its own corporate jet or jets, or if they always used Pentastar? Did Nardelli fly on Pentastar the first time to DC?
And on this legal exposure issue, I’m interested what concerns people see. I’m an attorney. Although I’m not a defamation or privacy specialist, I do know something about those issues. I see nothing of concern here, but would be interested to find out if I am wrong.
This story needs a disclaimer, either a wild-ass-rumor, or something else.
It is labeled as near-fact, when its just speculation.
I’m also curious where you got the $5k an hour figure from. Are you guesstimating, or just pulling that number from other operating figures? Because its a bit disingenuous to state that figure without actually getting a quote from Pentastar, which may be lower.
Pentastar Aviation LLC was founded as DaimlerChrysler Aviation in 1979, and was renamed as Pentastar Aviation LLC in 2001. The company is based in Waterford, Michigan. Pentastar Aviation LLC is a former subsidiary of Daimlerchrysler AG.
I doubt it was DaimlerChrysler Aviation in 1979.
@ Robert
Oh, and your link to the jet for sale is not accurate either. Take careful note of the tail number: the one for sale is N920DC, and it is NOT a gulfstream 450 or 550. (It is also not one of the jets currently used by Pentastar based on the tail numbers of those jets, which are N930DC, and N940DC.)
Lido’s Chrysler started making money around that time, and he wanted to travel “large and in charge”
Fast Forward: Chryslers German rapists fly on these:
http://www.dc-aviation.de/index-en.php?page=c10000
@fiasco: Maybe it was 1999, around the time DCX started.
I agree with RF and tesla deathwatcher. The cost of the flight-$5k/h, $50k/h, whatever–is insignificant next to the size the bailout loans.
The point is that if these CEOs are deserving of being in control of all this money, they have to demonstrate leadership, in part by telling the truth about how they travel and explaining why it is essential to the way they do business.
Nardelli can end this story right now by telling the truth, but he apparently does not have the stones to.
Droid 800:
Man, you’re good. Correct. The tail number is the one you specified. My bad on the picture. Text amended. Again. (They don’t call you the Best and Brightest for nothing.)
I also have the later jet’s tail number, which is NOT either of those numbers.
@Robert
Hmm. That’s a little odd that its not either of those tail numbers.
Was it one of the ones listed on this page?
http://www.pentastaraviation.com/showPage.php?cachevar=&menuID=481
If not, we might be dealing with a whole different situation, perhaps with Chrysler execs chartering from a different company.
Since you do have the tail number, you can search for the registration information here:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp
That should tell you who owns it. You can also google the tail number and you might get some interesting past flight movements.
Robert,
Chrysler was raped by the Germans, and then sold to the Wall Street whizkids for an inflated price. Thats the real story.
In my opinion, Nardelli needed a comeback after the Home Despot fiasco. Cerberus and their Jack Welch worship cult tagged him to put the old mans vision into a dead American icon. They didn’t count on a finacial collapse of the planet, and thats the biggest mistake.
Shit happens. Watching who rides a now worthless bizjet is not important. Lets get the world economys heart started.
Wow, that sounds soooo Obama
Driod800:
Check your email.
Hang on. If Nardelli had to be at the Capitol on the morning of December 2nd, there’s not a chance he’d be on a plane going to Teterboro (in North NJ close to the GWB). The timing doesn’t work. Heck, given the importance of his being at the hearings, he’d have arrived in DC the night before at the latest.
Or am I missing something here?
Yes. The hearings were on December 4th, not 2nd. That makes it perfectly plausible that he flew instead of drove.
Well, here we go:
Robert, I can understand you want to distinguish yourself by scooping your competitors (and dreaded freep/detroit news) by outing Nardelli as having been on a plane to NJ on 12/2/08.
IF you can prove he lied to Congress, then yes, you are due mad props for being the guy who showed us how.
Unfortunately, it appears the truth may be less convenient to your cause, to wit:
1. Nardelli’s bosses (Cerberus) are in NYC. That explains not only the destination, but the timing for the trip: It’s more than reasonable, it’s actually EXPECTED that Nardelli would review his plans with his owners before the hearings in Washington.
2. Chrysler claimed that Nardelli would be leaving Tuesday evening for DC, entirely possible and plausible if he were in NYC for the day on 12/2 (Tuesday).
3. There are media pictures of Nardelli getting out of an electric Jeep in DC on Wed. 12/3, after having driven an Aspen hybrid (Chrysler’s claim).
When you think about it, it’s the timeline of the meeting with Cerberus, combined with the need to jet back to Detroit to subsequently drive to DC that made the flight to NJ on a chartered jet necessary.
(Ken, I don’t think Bob had to be in DC on 12/2 — he showed up on 12/3.)
Robert,
Not sure about this (help me out here), but my previous post alleges the Big Hearings in DC were on 12/4 (not 12/2 per your claim). In fact, it looks like Wagoner didn’t even leave Detroit until 12/3
I think they may have been planned for 12/2 at one point…
It was, but they had to push it back. (I can’t remember off the top of my head, but it went from a Tuesday to a Thursday)
@TheRealAutoGuy
You were so close until you got to the flying back to detroit to drive back to D.C. part. I sincerely doubt that such a thing happened. Besides the fact that it would be beyond even Nardelli’s capacity for stupidity, it wouldn’t make any sense for him to fly back just to drive the same route again. In all likelihood, even if he did meet with Cerberus executives in New York, he would have stuck around and driven from New York to D.C..
Confirmed:
Edsel Ford II owns Pentastar aviation, far more relevant than who USED TO.
Yes, they are quite careful about their client list (see the link..). This is because they are a good and professional company.
Robert,
I would humbly suggest that your article should more accurately reflect the current ownership status of Pentastar by stating something similar to “now owned by a Ford family member and former head of Ford Credit” rather than (or in addition to) “former Chrysler subsidiary.”
This will give the conspiracy-theory types a whole new tail to chase! :-)
http://www.fordforums.com/f349/us-ford-scion-bleeds-blue-but-finds-aviation-niche-84240/
@Droid800:
You were so close until you got to the flying back to detroit to drive back to D.C. part. I sincerely doubt that such a thing happened. Besides the fact that it would be beyond even Nardelli’s capacity for stupidity, it wouldn’t make any sense for him to fly back just to drive the same route again. In all likelihood, even if he did meet with Cerberus executives in New York, he would have stuck around and driven from New York to D.C..
I will see you AND raise you: The Aspen or Durango hybrid Nardelli “drove” was assembled in Newark, Delaware. Maybe he picked it up at the plant! :-)
These jets are really, really, fast, and the wonders of private aviation means that he can go from NYC to his home in Michigan in about 2.5 hours, conference room to bedroom.
Driving from NYC to DC is about hours, (220 or so miles), driving from Detroit is 520. Net extra time is only about 4 hours (or a bit less) to drive from Detroit vs. NYC, Ohio and PA move pretty well.
Who knows. It probably came down to where he wanted to stay that night. I want to see a picture of Nardelli at the KFC at the Breezewood PA Turnpike exit.
The ownership of Pentastar is a red herring. They manage the fleet but the true owner of most of their aircraft is GE Capital Solutions. The issue is this dog and pony show that Chrysler put on demonstrates little regard for the people who are being forced to foot their bills.
@Jeff Puthuff
The ownership of Pentastar is a red herring. They manage the fleet but the true owner of most of their aircraft is GE Capital Solutions.
We are perhaps in violent agreement. It was your boss who brought up the “affiliation” implication with Chrysler, when in fact Chrysler hasn’t had anything to do with Pentastar aviation for years.
As for who owns the aircraft, that really doesn’t matter: Edsel’s company takes your money and flies you where you want to go, not GE Cap. Unless you want to get really silly and say that Nardelli used to work for GE, still probably has stock options and therefore a vested interest in the performance of GE Capital…
@ Jeff Puthuff
The issue is this dog and pony show that Chrysler put on demonstrates little regard for the people who are being forced to foot their bills.
I disagree completely. There is NOTHING more important to anyone at C, F, or GM more important right now than trying to do the right thing according to Congress and the Administration.
This is not to say that they will always do the right or right-appearing thing, but they are truly trying hard.
Robert,
If you are going to change the text of your original posts in the middle of the night (not the first time, BTW), you should document the changes at the beginning or end of the original post, rather than leaving the changes uncommented or referenced way down in the comment chain.
Your original post made it sound like Nardelli flew to Teterboro the day he appeared before Congress, now it’s “two days before.”
No, I’m no Nardelli fan, but flying to NYC two days before he appeared in DC is rapidly approaching a non-story.
No, I’m no Nardelli fan, but flying to NYC two days before he appeared in DC is rapidly approaching a non-story.
I’m a Nardelli hater, but this has been a non-story from the get go.
Anyone else seeing a film with Jack Nicholson as Nardelli and Tom Cruise in the role of Farago?
Farago: Colonel Nardelli, the 6am was first flight off the base?
Col. Nardelli: Yes.
Farago: There wasn’t a flight that left seven hours earlier and landed at Andrews Air Force Base at 2am?
Judge Randolph: Lieutenant, I think we’ve covered this, haven’t we?
Farago: Your honor, these are the tower chief’s logs for both Guantanamo Bay and Andrews Air Force Base. The Guantanamo log lists no flight leaving at 11 pm and the Andrews log lists no flight arriving at 2 am. I’d like to submit these as defense exhibits Alpha and Bravo.
Judge Randolph: I don’t understand; you’re submitting evidence of a flight that never existed.
Farago: Oh, we believe it did, sir.
Why all the fuss over this? I don’t get it. Guy flew to NyC area 2 days earlier and then drove to Washington DC. Got it. Lets move on.
Pat Holliday,
That was the BEST comment I have read in a lonnng time here. I’m still LOL.