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Protmind writes:
I’ve got a question for the best and the brightest-child car seats in two seater cars. I drive a ’06 S2000 and I’m expecting my first child. I’ve read my owner’s manual which foretells doom and gloom for children who ride along. However having ridden in my father’s 190SL extensively (sometime with only meager lap belts holding me), some of these hyper safety warnings ring a little false. If I take the necessary steps to make sure an airbag will not deploy when a child is with me, is the front seat just as safe as the back seat? Or is there another reason children should be in the back seat only? If you post this, in the interests of protecting my mortified wife, please only use my screen nic.
47 Comments on “Ask the Best and Brightest: Kids and Two-Seaters?...”
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Is it possible to disable the passenger airbag? Many pickup trucks allow one to do so, with a switch in the dash that requires a key. I don’t see why two-seat cars should be any different, though I’ve never been in an S2000.
Airbags pretty much are the reason kids shouldn’t ride in front seats.
Protmind,
As someone who has a 911 (which won’t take a rear-facing child seat in back), a Boxster, and an Audi S5 (which hasn’t enough room between seat and B-pillar to get a rear-face in there) and who is expecting my first child in June, I thought long and hard about my options.
I’d have less concern about about having a front-end collision and more about impingement into the passenger compartment via the softtop. There are a lot of things that could come in during an accident that wouldn’t kill you but which could kill a baby.
I think if you disconnected the airbag and put the factory hardtop on it would be fine.
Or you could do what I did and buy a Ford Flex.
I have an Audi TT (2-seater convertible) and have had a kid-seat in the passenger side since my son was born. When I first installed it 4 years ago, I stopped by the local fire station to get it inspected / make sure I installed it correctly / talk to them about the airbags. I’ve spoken with other safety officials since then, and have come to the conclusion that although a rear seat is generally safer (being in the back), there is no special danger to a child/infant from sitting in the front seat with a *properly installed* child seat.
It kind of goes without saying, but he really enjoys sitting in front and is much more interactive sitting next to me than he is in my wife’s car where he sits in back.
EDIT: The car allows you to disable the passenger airbag using the key and a special switch in the glove compartment.
Enjoy parenthood,
Dan.
Having ridden extensively in your dad’s 190sl as a child has absolutely no bearing on the safety issues of having a little kid in the front seat of a modern car. Your anecdote would only come anywhere near applying to this situation if you had crashed several times as a front-seat riding child and walked away unscathed.
Safety warnings only seem hyper until the unthinkable happens, at which point it’s too late to make false logic jumps comparing the safety of riding in a two seater to crashing in one.
I don’t know about the actual safety ratings for a child seat in the S2000, but my searches have shown it to be a very crashworthy little car. This is from an article on Edmunds: “…don’t put your kids in the front seat. Since the most common type of crash is frontal, the rear seat is the safest place for children to ride. A study by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS) showed that children under 13 are up to 36-percent less likely to die if they are seated in the rear seat.” I don’t know how the numbers play out if there is no rear seat, but I’d be a bit nervous about the whole situation.
Not that you should be a nervous nelly about taking your kid in your car or anything, and maybe the front seat of an S2000 is just as “safe” as the rear seat of a Chevy Malibu; just remember that no matter how great a driver you are, there’s some jackass 16 year old zipping around listening to emo music and talking on his or her cell phone, just waiting to crash into your car. If safety is paramount, and it doesn’t really sound like it’s a #1 concern in this situation, which is fine, you might want to reconsider your vehicle choice.
Hello!
My ’99 Miata has the ability to disable the passenger airbag, I’d think the S2000 would have the same deal.
Even at that, I’d place the child seat facing backwards.
First of all, I’d never want kids in my luxury ride. I get really really annoyed if I have to take my young cousins in my S550 cause once, they spilled soda in my ford expedition and stained the floor.
So every 10 seconds, I’m looking back there to make sure they aren’t screwing with stuff or messing anything up. I really don’t like kids.
And then they vomit when they feel like it. I have seriously had to pick kids up by the waist to move them from vomiting on something important.
UUUUUGH
I wanna see someone put a carseat and a newborn in a Veyron.
By the time your child is 10, it will be safer to do, because many of the 2 1/2 ton SUVs will have been put out to pasture. For any passenger, a 1 1/2 ton sports car will fare worse being t-boned by an SUV than the other way around. I don’t see it as front seat vs rear seat issue, rather as center seat with an additional 18-24″ of crush zone.
Second, you have to think that the owners manual warnings are written by lawyers who have heard – and used – the phrase “You knew or should have known…” at least a few times in their lives.
A good car seat provides a whole other level of collision safety. If you are uncomfortable with the safety of your infant, then you probably will be uncomfortable with the safety of your older child in a few more years. This is why so many people have a second car -a bigger family car – or compromise with a sporty sedan when children come along.
I’m the owner of a 1 1/2 ton two seater, but my ‘kids’ are 26 and 21. When they were little, it was sedans, as much for utility as anything else.
You can disable the airbag in an S2000. I ended up selling mine before our son was born (he’s six months now), but it would have been possible.
As far as we go, we know we’re having at least one more child, so the S2000 had to go. With another 911 still, my wife just wasn’t having it.
I have, on occasion, taken our son in our Ranger, in the front seat, with a rear-facing child seat. The truck is older, so it has no airbags. It’s legal and safe (enough) in California, although we’ve only done it a couple of times when shuttling cars around was the only choice.
Check your local laws. They differ on this subject.
The basics, to reiterate: AIRBAGS OFF. Rear-facing if possible. Check local laws. If it’s illegal for whatever reason, you may not be able to transport children in the Honda.
Oh, also, it’ll get messy, and the seat base buckled down may crease the leather seat in a way you won’t like.
The Honda S2000 does not have a passenger airbag off switch and IIRC the manufacturer specifically recommends against carrying children in the car. You may be able to find an installer to disable the airbag but due to liability reasons the trey may be hard to find. I had a NA Miata (which also had a passenger airbag without an off switch) when our older kids were born, so we ended up getting a 3rd car.
A few years ago a manufacturer (XCSI) made a rear-facing car seat that was supposedly airbag compatible. It had a huge rigid plastic shield that would bump hit the airbag in case of collision. A quick Google search shows that these were recalled and no longer available.
Statistically, the middle position in the 2nd row is supposed to be the safest place to put a child, but many cars have humps that make installation challenging.
Interesting – it seems “protect your car from baby” only has two results in a Google search.
Or is there another reason children should be in the back seat only?
It’s safer. It really is. There’s less chance of intrusion in just about any crash scenario (most ‘hits’ don’t affect the rear of the car). Look at the picture; there’s not a lot of room between the dash and that seat: in a crash of respectable magnitude, the seat is going to move forward and strike the dash, which is not good for an infant’s undeveloped neck and torso.
This is assuming you can deactivate the airbag. If you can’t, don’t even think about putting a rear-facing seat in the front. It will likely kill or seriously injure your child.
If your car has enough clearance to accomodate the seat when installed safey (eg, make sure the seatback angle meets the seatmaker’s guidelines), it’s not too unsafe. Any S2000 I’ve been in doesn’t exactly have much space, so be sure and perhaps have the install checked by the police: many precincts have childseat experts who can qualify and help with an install.
Note that the pictured carseat is so badly installed it’s actually scary: most rear-facing seats will want the child reclined somewhere around 45-50º. That kid is 65º, which is not good. I really recommend you have someone who does this professionally examine whatever you do because the mistakes you can make, even if you’re pretty smart and read the (dumbed down to the point of idiocy) manual, are simple and tragic.
SUVs or semis? I think you should stay home, those roads are dangerous. I’d lock the kid in his room until he was about 18 or so.
Statistically you’re more likely to be injured up front than in back regardless of size and age, but wrt to the child seat the main issue is the airbag. These days many cars, and virtually all two seaters and pickups, either allow you to manually disable the passenger airbag, or have sensors in the seat which automatically disable the airbag if you don’t have an adult weight sitting in the seat. When you have a choice use the back seat, but as long as the airbag won’t fire, there’s no reason to fear taking a pickup or two seater.
Even in the back, if you have rear airbags, you’d want to put the carrier in the middle position. Even side airbags pack a punch.
If the s2000 doesn’t have an airbag switch it will still have an airbag fuse in your fuse box. Take it out and a little light should show up on your dash letting you know your airbags are disabled. I’m not sure if there is one fuse for each airbag or one for both on that car, it should say on the fuse box what’s what. Hey when I was a kid we rode around in lawn chairs on the backs of pickup trucks, but I think the point is, if something does happen, you will wish you had sold the s2000 and bought an armored car. On the other hand, if you can afford an s2000 you should be able to spring a couple grand for a used SUV. $2000 can buy a decent SUV these days.
On second thought, you’ll never win with your wife, if you can’t afford a second family type car you will have to bite the bullet and sell your s2000 and get something more appropriate. You could still get a sporty car, a WRX or something. But I think you are going to need back seats.
I came across an S2000 with an aftermarket switch installed a few years ago, which got me thinking in this direction. It would have cost about $300.
I don’t know much about this subject, but I’ll say this: a few years ago in Montreal some woman put her baby in the front seat and the airbag went off in a mild fender-bender. The airbag literally ripped the baby’s head off and sent it rolling out the window and down the block.
The lady went into shock and is still in counseling to this day. I met the ambulance driver who responded first to the situation and he told me it was the most horrifying thing he had ever seen by a longshot.
We’re thinking of having a baby in the next year or so. I’m already shopping for something fairly large and heavy, like a large sedan or SUV. I would suggest you do the same.
DEANMTL
WOW……..
If you can afford, or already own, another vehicle with a rear seat for most transportation purposes, then definitely keep the S2000. If you can turn off the airbag, then I would definitely say go ahead and take your child with you in the S2000, but only on very short trips. As he gets older you will both be able to enjoy the car together on longer trips. So, bottom line, keep the S2000, but when traveling with the baby, drive something else.
@DeanMTL: yikes! worse than any horror movie.
And here’s a sad story about parents who leave kids to overheat in their car seats, a relatively new phenomenon since the introduction of front passenger airbags.
The S2000 should have a passenger airbag disconnect switch, making it safe for your kid. As a 17-yr. old, I’d love it if my dad had an S2000, especially the early models with the glorious, 9000-rpm F20C engine. Hopefully, the experience of being driven around in an S2000 will turn your kid into an enthusiast like us, and like you with your dad’s 190SL. But if I were you, I’d get an appropriate child seat, like the ones from Recaro or Honda with the Type-R logo. Seriously, go to autoblog and look for it.
Richard
My s-class has a feature, I think for these rich dummies who have pets, that turns the engine/AC on if the interior sensors sense a living thing in the car with the windows up.
If you accidentaly leave your puppy in the car, the car cools itself down but disables the engine if someone tries to steal it by getting in without the Key Fob.
That would be great to have on future cars – since it works with keyless start designs.
Sorry, I was wrong about the disable switch. There is a light indicator on the dash for the airbag being off (triggered by a weight sensor in the passenger seat) but not a switch and I remembered incorrectly.
And as others have said, even with airbag disable, I’d try to keep kids out of the front. Our baby travels in a rear-facing baby seat in the middle of the rear row.
Too, please be sure you have it attached correctly. Shockingly, a CHP officer who was giving a talk to one of the baby classes we took said that 90% of infant safety seats are not installed correctly. I know most people don’t read manuals anymore, but when it comes to baby safety, this is one place I never skimp–or skim. Read your seat’s manual carefully, and consult with safety trained experts if you’re still in doubt, and then give yourself plenty of time to get the seat set up correctly. And, do that before baby’s born–like days before. One less thing to worry about on the day or two after the big day.
Congrats and have fun. It’s the greatest thing in the world!
Richard Chen brings up an interesting point about babies dying of heat stroke after being accidentally left in the back seats of cars, something which happens all-too-often here in the Houston area.
If parents driving with only their infant on board always put the infant in the front (air bag off, of course), it is not unreasonable to assume that the incidence of children dying from heat stroke after being left in cars would drop significantly.
So even if the front is more dangerous in an accident (a point which has not yet been demonstrated to my satisfaction), it brings up the question as to whether the back seats are so much safer that they offset the added risk of the baby dying after accidentally being left unattended.
Watched a lengthy article on network news show about putting a rear-facing baby seat in the front seat. Test after test showed the power of an expanding air bag is typically fatal and can be sufficient to decapitate the baby.
Safety experts advise NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER put a rear-facing baby seat in any position facing an air bag, even it you are convinced you have the means to ensure it is defeated. They DO spontaneously deploy.
Airbags are only slightly evil, but I can’t imagine anything that is much worse.
There are many other reasons apart from safety that make a four door car/CUV more suitable for infants. For one, they need a lot of stuff which may not fit in your S2000 and you may also occasionally want to take your wife along so more seats is generally better. As the kids get older they have friends and the need for more space only increases. Yes it’s tough saying goodbye to the two seater but I’d take the opportunity while the economy is slow and get a bargain on something more safe and practical.
You can’t wrap the kid in bubble wrap and keep them safe all the time, but you can take reasonable precautions.
I didn’t take my 1st born around in the miata until she could face forward and was walking. No airbag to worry about, but I thought it was a reasonable limitation. Once she was old enough to control her movements and strong enough to handle the ride, I didn’t worry about popping her in the car and heading out for a drive.
I would NOT out her in a front seat if the airbag couldn’t be disabled. If you ever see one go off, you’ll understand why “airbag” is an understatement. It’s more like “shotgun in a bag” than fluffy pillow.
Driving around with the top down is one of her favorite things. We were walking outside yesterday and she asked when we could take out the “little car” and go for a ride since it was spring. She absolutely loves riding in the car.
Wife asked me today how we were going to find a convertible we could all ride in together, so I guess that’s next on the list.
jberger-
You could always get a new Chrysler Sebring convertible. Just walk into the dealership with $25K cash and it’ll be a piece of cake…oh, nevermind.
You’re a parent, your life changes. Get over it. Time to move on and get an appropriate car. Discover the sleeper station wagon, the overpowered sedan, etc. You don’t have to get an SUV or a minivan, but you really do need four doors.
You and your children will both enjoy your parenting much more if you embrace it fully and abandon all efforts to keep your life the same as it was without kids. You’re not losing something, you’re moving to the next level!
The way I see it, your best bet is NOT BUYING A TWO SEATER.
I know people who’ve had to sell brand new Escalades because they found out they were pregnant and thus needed something much cheaper.
If you’ve got newborns, I suggest a well made, strong, large car like a Chrysler 300, Charger or minivan.
I’d perfer a van over an SUV so you get a softer ride and maintenance costs less.
Time for a bigger garage, in 16 years the will appreciate (or better appreciate the 18 year sports car you kept around just for them ‘wink wink’) your ‘baby’ that you can share your passion that is ‘automotive’ with them.
I like Jack Baruth’s solution, buy a Ford Flex.
Sorry I am biased, full disclosuere and all that I sell em. I have been fortunate enough to “hide” 95 Mustang GT Convertible, my 15 year only appreciates the stereo so far, give him a couple of years.
Enjoy being a parent, get some sleep.
In 2007 Honda added an automatic airbag disabler to the passenger seat of the S2000. It works based on weight of the occupant. Even with the disabler, the owners manual spends several pages explaining all the bad things that might happen if a child should ride in the car.
Prior to that, the airbag could be disabled with an aftermarket switch installed at the dealer.
I agree with Flashpoint about the two seater. I had to give mine up because of too many children. You try to keep it for a while but it just becomes a point of contention. I suppose it’s part of the circle of life; a two seater theoretically helps you get laid but then getting laid ultimately forces you out of the two seater.
I would not listen to Flashpoints suggestion of buying an SUV or a large car for safety reasons, especially an SUV! It is exactly this kind of thinking that has led us to mess we are in now.
I was in the same position as you when I had my daughter in 2005. I had a 350z and when I found out my wife was pregnant, I entered the 5 stages of grief. When you finally come around to acceptance, you’ll realize that there are options that exist for an enthusiast with a car seat.
I traded in the 350z for a bi-turbo S4 (loved the car, not the reliability). A few cars later I find myself driving a WRX wagon and my wife a Prius.
The S2000 at least used to lack a switch for disabling the passenger airbag. Why, I don’t know. I would also be a bit concerned about aftermarket switches of this type, unless they have undergone extensive, documented testing, and is being sold by someone with enough to loose to be very concerned about a lawsuit should it malfunction.
I wasn’t aware that the rear facers didn’t fit in 911’s, as I always assumed child seats was what 911’s were all about. P needs to do something about that.
I guess you can trade the car for an RX8.
I agree with findude and Jack Baruth. Man-up and get a car suitable for children. If the very slight improbable event happens that your child is injured or killed because they were riding in that vehicle vs. a “family car”, you will spend the rest of your life wishing you had done something different. This is just the price you pay for ensuring your genetic survival.
Ummmmm….not for nothing. My parents drove 6 of us kids around in old Ramblers with sharp edges, no airbags, heck we didn’t even wear seatbelts.
My mom had a 63 Chevy II Nova 2-door where the fold-forward front seats DIDN’T EVEN COME WITH SEAT LATCHES!
OMG, my parents should be hauled away and pilloried and racked for endangering the lives of their children.
Nope. I grew up in the 60’s, before the government told us what to drive and what equipment it had to have to be “safe”….
Everything in life is a risk. Do what you want, but recognize the risk to yourself, and your child. Defeat the airbag if you can. Don’t try to let the government or others tell you how to live your life for you.
Me? I’d follow HankScorpio’s advice…get a RX8, it has a back seat and front and side airbags available. But do it because YOU decide it is the prudent and safe thing to do, not because the government says YOU HAVE TO.
But I ain’t sure if I’d listen to advice from Baruth….he has driven 123mph on I-95 in FLA with family members sleeping in the car. So, about safety issues, his judgement may be somewhat suspect.
@Mark MacInnis: You should have seen the speed I was able to reach in a diesel F-250 today in Kentucky. Go look in an F-250, see how far the speedometer goes, then imagine it going past the end. Great truck.
Seriously, though, as soon as my son is born I have to drive 54mph everywhere so that I can live long enough to make a strong impression on him before dying in a race or plane crash just before his tenth birthday, thus giving him the opportunity to follow Damon Hill and JV onto the list of World Champions whose fathers were also races.
Rear-facing seats don’t work in a 911. The Britax Marathon forward-facing seat does fit, and that’s what I’ll have in mine as soon as my little Heinz-Harold reaches the twenty-pound mark.
RX8 or WRX. You’re having a kid, it’s OVER!
Kidding.
“Having ridden extensively in your dad’s 190sl as a child has absolutely no bearing on the safety issues of having a little kid in the front seat of a modern car. Your anecdote would only come anywhere near applying to this situation if you had crashed several times as a front-seat riding child and walked away unscathed.”
A 190SL is a pretty safe vehicle. Having survived the ’60’s as a child, riding on the engine compartment of the family van, the large flat dash of the motor home, or in the wagon with no seat belts – and having been in crashes in said vehicles, and surviving with little or no long term injuries, I would say this is all fear mongering; tactics to get you to purchase this product or that.
Having survived the ’70’s as an adolecent in the back seat of a 911, apart from the cramped space stunting my growth (I’m short and I blame Porsche…), I would say any 911 is safer than just about anything else.
Seeing the damage to the occupant compartments of new “safer” cars is just freightening! Airbags are great for adults, but not at the expense of a well made car.
Time for a new car. The first of many changes in your life that are coming. My reality has been that my children rarely ride in my car (Mazdaspeed6) but I feel comfortable that they will be reasonably protected. I dont think I could say the same thing in such a small two seater. As a relatively new parent myself, I will tell you that everything else comes second to your children and their safety/well being.
I used to advise people on carseats and help them choose which one suited them best. Believe me, it is no fun talking to a family member of child who died in a car accident due to improper safety seats. Keep them out of the front seat while rear facing and always follow your manuals(car and safety seat). Also, remember there is an age, weight, and height restriction to seats and how the child should face.
In the case of car seats and child safety, the times have changed. Any memories of your childhood or anything pre-21st century do not apply. Standards of safety are far, far different and stricter than you can imagine.
Oh, yeah, and the comment about taking the baby’s STUFF is quite compelling, too. If you can’t take a stroller, toys, diaper bag, then you won’t enjoy spending time with your kid once you get to the destination. Not to mention trying to fit groceries or anything else in the car.
Time for a Sienna! Best car in the world, for kids.
Man, the anti-safety crowd is pretty minimal in this thread, thank god, but it’s gotta be the stupidest damn thing in the world to rant against safety measures in cars. It’s not a scam, a trick or fear-mongering. Airbags aren’t molly-coddling us all into a state of chubby weakness and ESC is the best thing to be introduced to vehicles since the seat belt. These are life-saving measures, statistically proven and thoroughly tested.
Yeah, stand up for what’s right! Don’t let the government force you into driving a safe car and mitigating the substantial risk that you and your loved ones face by taking to the road! Damn Big Brother is making us buckle up and it’s wrong and some kind of trick!
Sheer madness. There are many rights worth fighting for, but the ability to strap a baby into a possible deathtrap without warnings against doing so isn’t one of them. The gov’t isn’t going to force you to protect your child’s life, but I’m damn glad they look into these things and have safety standards so this country isn’t full of tin-can deathmobiles like China.
Time for a Sienna! Best car in the world, for kids.
I have to second that.
We just bought one and, really, it just works so very, very well. Save yourself time, effort, heartache and, quite possibly, physical pain.
They’re easy to drive and they make all the compromises go away. The minutes and stress you save with a minivan not only free you up day to day (believe me, after putting your 30-40lb toddler in a rear seat enough times, the virtue of a high hip-point vis a vis your spinal cord is appreciated), they’ll make it much easier when you try to sell your much-less-stressed significant other on the virtues of building a Caterham in the garage.
Thirded on the Sienna rec.
The owner of SiennaClub.org closed & sold the board, fortunately there’s a new community at SiennaChat.
Used E39 M5’s are cheap now. I can’t think of a better family friendly enthusiast car.
If you’re adding a branch to the family tree, the Toyota Sienna should be on your list to check out.
http://www.toyota.com/sienna/
Get one you really like because you’ll find it’s the hot ticket from daycare to K thru 6.