Autocar reports that Indian automaker Tata will spend part of its day launching their NSFA (Not Safe for America) Nano in Mumbai. In case you’d forgotten—what with all the delays—the Nano is slated to be the world’s cheapest car. “The tinny four-door will sell for 100,000 rupees or $1979 (£1366) when the company takes bookings next month.” Sorry, typo. “Tiny.” So, it’s not REALLY launching the car. And it’s only TAKING BOOKINGS next month. Autocar reveals that DELIVERY will start well after the factory’s built, which “should be up and running next year, despite delays caused by an industrial dispute, but may only have capacity to build 350,000 cars a year. Until then Tata is thought to only be able to provide 50,000 cars annually.” So less, later, maybe from Mumbai. So what’s up with that? “Despite facing huge demand for the Nano, experts estimate the car will not create enough revenue to refinance by June a $2 billion (£1.3 bn) bridging loan Tata used to buy Land Rover and Jaguar from Ford.” Spinning wheels. Got to go ’round.
I would be interested to see how this thing would hold up in a typical crash. I’m sure a Suburban would smash it like a tin can, but how much worse is it than, say, an Aveo? It would be interesting to find that out.
Any chance of a test drive and review. What happened to Bertel the “TTAC Man in Asia”?
superbad
Youtube has test crash videos of SMART cars. The Nano is about the same as a SMART. In the video, a Benz 500 (not even an SUV) hit the car from behind and lifted it right over the hood like a basketball bouncind around.
These cars cannot withstand ANY impact from a large sedan OR impact from a midsized – large SUV. If you do get hit, they turn into “rollcages” and you’ll think you were in the human cannonball ride.
The Smart car was at least engineered by M-B, and its price point is many multiples above the Nano — so I’m thinking if I had to choose — I’d take my chances in a Smart.
The Nano — take a look at the interior pictures on the web of the seat mounting – do you think there’s any chance that wouldn’t collapse in a crash? And note that a driver’s airbag is optional. Of course, its top speed is, what, 2.5 mph ;-)
I would be interested to see how this thing would hold up in a typical crash. I’m sure a Suburban would smash it like a tin can, but how much worse is it than, say, an Aveo? It would be interesting to find that out.
How would a Suburban fare against a Kenworth?
The point of the Nano is to replace the motorcycle-with-four-people-on-it that typifies Indian commodity transit. But those standards, it’s quite safe. Please try to understand it in context.
Does this thing come with a free Slurpee????
Also, they should have put a red dot on its forehead…to protect it from the diabolical SUVs.
You beat me to the exact same words, psarhjinian.
It’s interesting that almost nobody used to think about “how well does it crash” (looking at cars from the perspective of what happens perhaps once over many years of driving), but used to look at cars and say things like – how does it go? For cars such as this, how economical is it? And, perhaps, can it keep up with traffic without being a rolling roadblock? (With 32hp, in Indian traffic, the answer is “yes”). For that matter, it could probably manage reasonably well in much of the world, in that regard. It is, after all, not an Autobahn car… it is a basic transport vehicle.
Perhaps we could save a lot of money and fuel by lightening our vehicles and removing ‘safety equipment’ but make up the difference by actually training drivers to be competent. The object of the exercise, needless to say, is to NOT crash. But to get where you are going safely.
I know, I know – won’t work – too late – yada yada etc.
Just what the world needs; a chaotic and over-crowded country adopting the fossil-fueled car….
Would you like your oil at $200/bbl? Let’s make car ownership a desire in India and China.
Pete,
China already has a solution for that. Maybe they can export their “technology” to India:
I want to know where one picks up a glossy brochure for the Execution Bus.
Bertel, would you happen to know where I can obtain one of these?
Gee a roll-out 30 days before orders are being taken? These fellas need to learn a thing or two from the Big Boys – eventually they’ll get to where they can do a professional 2 year early rollout like the Camaro…. or a ‘vaporware’ rollout like the Volt.
As far as how these things will do in a crash against a Suburban – well – they’re not intended for the American Market, or even the European, really. The article that I read about the company says that they’re intended as an upgrade from a scooter – in India – so the fair comparison is how they do against a Suburban compared to how a scooter does.
As anybody who’s ever owned a bike knows, there are days when you just flat need a car – either to get out of the rain, or to carry the groceries.
When I lived in Tokyo, I had a Kawasaki 750 and a Honda Life with an engine half the size of the Kaw’s.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Honda_Life_1998.jpg
Bottom line. I think they’re gonna sell a lot of these.
Note: The article also said that, even if they were available in the U.S., you’d be much better served with a very used Civic in the same price range. That would be just as durable and much more suited to our traffic conditions.
“How would a Suburban fare against a Kenworth?”
Thank you psarhjinian!
In a land where “freedom” is represented by a bare-armed vested guy hanging off of ape drapes on a Harley people always resort to this mass-gap argument when the issue of small cars come up. I’ve personally witnessed, or seen the aftermath of many accidents in my lifetime, involving everything from bicycles to semis and the craziest/deadliest ones have almost always been single-vehicle rollovers involving SUVs.
Size does not always equal safety.
Given the vast number of two-stroke 2- and 3-wheeled contraptions on Indian roads the Tata Nano is likely a step upward in the safety category anyway.
–chuck
Just what the world needs; a chaotic and over-crowded country adopting the fossil-fueled car….
There’s a few things you have to realize about Indian urban development:
* It is not at all suited to public mass transit, unless someone invents hoverbuses.
* It is well-suited to keeping people in a small area. Shops, workplaces and residences are much more integrated than in the horrifically isolated communities of North America. Indians do not need to drive ten miles to the grocery store to buy a bag of onions.
As such, the coming of something like the Nano doesn’t herald the kind of oil-use apocalypse someone used to the North American Surburban Experience might expect. That said, where things could go badly is if the Nano enables that kind of sprawl.
@ psarhjinian
That said, where things could go badly is if the Nano enables that kind of sprawl.
That is exactly what some people ARE intending. They have their own version of car-enabled suburbia being drooled over by property ‘developers’ right now…. Farmers are being swindled out of their arable land.
Indians (and the Chinese) don’t “need” cars to get around but they are being told they “should” have them.
Oil industry (BP) numbers that suggest if India and China start using cars at even a 4% growth rate, global oil requirements would be nearly 30% above the industry peak of 2007 inside 25 years.
That oil does not exist. A 3% oil use increase was enough to have oil triple in 5 years (plus a healthy dose of Wall Street speculation).
Suburban sprawl my NSFW. We’re talking about tens of millions of people who can’t afford shoes, never mind a ranch style house.
Should it ever arrive, the Nano will enrich the lives of the average Indian. Hell, it will SAVE their lives, by improving their access to commercial markets, health care and even genetic diversity.
The automobile is one of the world’s greatest inventions. Why should be deny it to the world’s largest democracy? Because they’ll use OUR oil? Pollute OUR air?
If you believe that the world’s supply of oil can’t cope with the additional demand, guess what? Something else will take its place. Funny how that works.
The point of the Nano is to replace the motorcycle-with-four-people-on-it that typifies Indian commodity transit. But those standards, it’s quite safe. Please try to understand it in context.
Understood, but in the case of the motorcycle, if you’re wearing a helmet and get thrown from it, you may survive. If you’re in a crash in a car and it collapses, you become encased in a heap of twisted metal. Sure, more mass wins the battle in almost any crash, but there are safety standards here for a reason. I also know that the Nano is planned to be cheap for a reason, and that at the price for which it will be sold, safety equipment just isn’t possible. It still doesn’t change my curiosity.
Flashpoint: I don’t think the smart and Nano would compare at all. The smart was designed with safety in mind. The passenger compartment is built to sustain a crash with larger, heavier vehicles. I’m sure it bounces around, but most likely protects the occupants way better than an under $3,000 Nano.
PeteMoran : Just what the world needs; a chaotic and over-crowded country adopting the fossil-fueled car.
I’m sure England said the same thing when America rattled on about their Model T.
PeteMoran : Would you like your oil at $200/bbl? Let’s make car ownership a desire in India and China.
There’s a reason why we have sovereign nations. And because of it, I doubt the growing middle class in India/China care what we think about our gas prices, sitting high and mighty in our amazing cars and SUVs.
superbadd75 : Understood, but in the case of the motorcycle, if you’re wearing a helmet and get thrown from it, you may survive.
Wearing helmets in India? Um, not that often.
Considering the Nano will never go faster than 45mph in any major Indian city (even on the downhill flyovers) and 80% of the things on the road are smaller than a Ford Fiesta, the safety argument is irrelevant.
Well, somewhat irrelevant.
Indians (and the Chinese) don’t “need” cars to get around but they are being told they “should” have them.
You know, I used to live in Williamsburg Virginia. One day when I was complaining to a neighbor about how crowded the town was becoming, he said something that resonated with me:
“Yeah, everyone wants to close the gates after THEY’RE inside.”
Who are we to tell the Indians (and the Chinese) that they shouldn’t have cars?
but how much worse is it than, say, an Aveo?
Much, much, much worse.
The Aveo is a mediocre car, but one developed as a CAR for the First world.
The Nano is quadricycle developed for a country where many cities maintain public services to get rid of corpses of people who died in the street: India. A very interesting country with a very long and rich history, OTOH, but a country with a totally different (and lower) set of standards.
The Nano is about the same as a SMART.
No, no, no, no. The Nano and the Smart rest on four wheels. The similarities end just there.
In the video, a Benz 500 (not even an SUV) hit the car from behind and lifted it right over the hood like a basketball bouncind around.
Please watch Smart against MB S-Class. Please note that the survival space in the Smart remains intact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02eghIfyHP0
And now watch what happens when a Smart crashes against a Fiat Seiciento:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYPUxazlNxU
The Seiciento (a REAL car) collapses, while the Smart maintains perfectly the survival space.
I expect the Nano to behave more or less like this blue microcar-deathtrap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYSxA1QB-EU
Of course that for the indians the option is not a Nano or a Smart, but the nano or riding your whole family in a moped. Under this point of view the Nano is much safer than the moped.
Such a vehicle will unleash the productivity and mobility of many people, just as the Model T did, and whose relative safety is questionable.
Today’s spacefliers wouldn’t dare step into the machines their forebears did only 45 years ago.
I think the Tata Nano is a great idea, and a few could even be sold in the US, I’m sure, if it wasn’t for the regulatory hurdles.
Who are we to tell the Indians (and the Chinese) that they shouldn’t have cars?
and
I doubt the growing middle class in India/China care what we think about our gas prices
and
The automobile is one of the world’s greatest inventions. Why should be deny it to the world’s largest democracy? Because they’ll use OUR oil? Pollute OUR air? BS.
When did India and China become self sufficient islands?
You REALLY think inefficient transport decisions they make won’t have impacts in other parts of the world? Even in poorer parts of the world, not just the RICH ones??
You REALLY think that the Western “way of life” is in anyway sustainable, and is something that billions of people should be told they can definitely aspire to?
Such a vehicle will unleash the productivity and mobility of many people
They manage to be productive just fine WITHOUT cars absolutely everywhere.
The USA could learn a lot.
Add the “myth” that the car is responsible for the greatest revolutions of productive society to the myth blog. Spare me.
You REALLY think that the Western “way of life” is in anyway sustainable, and is something that billions of people should be told they can definitely aspire to?
Yes, I do. And I know what I am talking about.
Pete Moran: it doesn’t matter what “we” think, they want it and we sure as heck can’t stop them. And if we did, it would be the height of hypocrisy.
They have been “productive just fine WITHOUT cars”? Not a chance. The new jobs (that foreign companies gave them) place new demands on Indian society. Growing consumerism, increase in retail and housing sales, etc…it all adds up to the American way of life.
Which demands a car. America doesn’t have the lock on the American Dream.
PeteMoran :
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:36 am
When did India and China become self sufficient islands?
You REALLY think inefficient transport decisions they make won’t have impacts in other parts of the world? Even in poorer parts of the world, not just the RICH ones??
There will be big impacts. So what?
If they try to buy oil from you, you have your right not to sell to them.
If they try to buy oil from the Saudis, then, well, the Saudis will be glad to sell to them. It’s not your business, even if the final outcome affects you.
An Indian (or Chinese) is as dignified a human as yourself; his one USD is worth as much as your one USD. If you don’t like that fact, beat them like what Brits did a century ago. If you can’t beat them, well, you are out of luck.
PeteMoran, you may have an easier time talking your family members, your neighbors and your co-workers out of using cars. At least these people speak perfect American English (I assume), and the communication will be easier.
And the result would be more rewarding. If you talk one American out of his Suburban, that’s equivalent to talking 8 Indians out of their Nano, in terms of environmental impact.
Gawd man..The arrogance of the white-man just knows no bound..does it?? Even when you are drowning in debt and can barely hold onto your homes you still have to poke fun at something that is made for the future you ( Im hoping $2000 won’t be much of a stretch for you ). Your utter disregard for facts when you comment on something is imbecilic. Oh look at me third worlder making fun of the american…oh wait i have a job and a good home and a decent standard of living which is much more than most of you can claim to have. I mite even claim to be richer than you are( trillions of dollars of debt divided by about 300 mn people vs maybe about $100bn of debt divided by a billion people)..tata motors isnt exactly licking the governments a** for any bailouts. they are innovating and changing with the times and precisely for that reason will one day look at you and sneer…or not..oh and for those who care here’s a proper road test..i suggest you read through..
http://overdrive.in/story-test_drives-test_drives/tata_nano_first_drive-11512-0.html
and
http://www.zigwheels.com/Reviews/Tata-Nano-First-Drive/Nano_20090323-1-8
Wow… Just wow… An American – world’s top polluter, saying how Indians or Chinese should live their lives.
That’s just moronic. I’ll tell you right now, that they don’t get a flying NSFW as to what the oil price is going to look for you. And in case you haven’t noticed, China surpassed the U.S. as world’s largest auto market; and are growing still.
I’m not convinced that India is all that efficient. When I was there a little over a year ago, I got the sense that the infrastructure was being pushed to its limits. Case in point: I didn’t see a single incandescent lightbulb plugged in to the grid no matter where I went. The size of the diesel generators that were standard fixtures anywhere where there were connections to the outside world was truly incredible. The amount of human labor being used to build limited-access highways is incomprehensible to Americans. Yes, labor is cheap, but it’s not as efficient as machines. It is amazing how much Indians squeeze out of every resource and that’s to be admired, but there are better ways to do things.
I live in New York City, yet the traffic jams in New Delhi were more intense than any I’ve ever seen. That’s a huge drain on productivity any way you look at it. The Indians I was working with all had homes quite a distance from the office, many were commuting several hours per day. I certainly can’t fault Indians for wanting Nanos instead of Honda Heros (motorbikes). And while it may seem arrogant for an American to comment on Indian wants and desires, It would be wrong not to point out the risks of becoming too dependent on the car and suburban house, something we Americans should know an awful lot about by now.
Suburban sprawl my NSFW. We’re talking about tens of millions of people who can’t afford shoes, never mind a ranch style house.
I don’t think people appreciate exactly how much of a problem North American urban development really is. Whether the car is the cause or the symptom doesn’t matter, a huge portion of the sustainability problem has to do with sprawl.** Encouraging sprawl is a bad, bad thing, especially now that mobility, in a knowledge economy, takes on a whole new meaning.
The telephone and the intelligent network can enable people in a fashion similar to the automobile, without nearly the cost to society.
Cars are cool and all, but I think we need to keep perspective.
** If you want to see something subtly amusing, have a look at how farming communities are laid out in Europe or Asia versus North America. In North America, you’ve got huge tracts of land with a single house, miles from other houses, stores or resources. In Europe, you’ll see a cluster of homes, a small business or two, and tracts of land surrounding the village.
Sticky –
Thanks for the articles about the Nano.
Here are a couple of interesting points worth reposting:
[T]he Nano is probably the cleanest automobile ever to go on sale in India. It is BS III compliant and is BS IV ready while work is already underway to meeting the strict Euro V emission norms. The Tata R&D boffins told us with a degree of pride in their voice that the car had lower emissions than the best selling 100cc bike in the country and if that isn’t all, the overall Nano ranks as one of the world’s best cars with the lowest CO2 emission levels, pegged at 110 grams per kilometre. And all this without a start-stop aid or with stuffed-to-the-gills (but crazily priced) computer controls.
The car meets all the ARAI crash safety requirements while ingenious solutions have been adopted for side impacts. Surely for Europe there will be ABS and air bags and side-impact beams and stability control plus also wider tyres and other gizmos but for the Indian environ the package is finely tuned and perfectly able to deliver.
This car really is a nice piece of engineering.
To: psarhjinian re
If you want to see something subtly amusing, have a look at how farming communities are laid out in Europe or Asia versus North America. In North America, you’ve got huge tracts of land with a single house, miles from other houses, stores or resources. In Europe, you’ll see a cluster of homes, a small business or two, and tracts of land surrounding the village.
That’s easy to explain – Europe and Asia had large populations before they had zoning laws (if they have any now), and America had wide open spaces and zoning laws before large population.
Further, for what it’s worth, we Americans were clustered to cities surrounded by farms long before the car came on the scene. The luxury of space.
I am not stating that the Nano isn’t a great thing for developing countries and families in those countries that need transportation. Really what I’m more curious about is how far off is this >$3,000 vehicle from our least expensive compact offerings like the Aveo or equivalent. I’d like to know if a little additional engineering or a couple of additional airbags could make this more than strictly a 3rd world car for a couple grand more, or is it a soup can on wheels? I understand that this is a quantum leap forward, I know that it beats balancing 5 kids on the handlebars of a Vespa, and I know that this vehicle makes possible things that never were previously for thousands of people, but I’m just curious about the thing. Safety is really the biggest thing that seems to keep these microcars out of the U.S., I’d like to see how this one stacks up. That’s it. I’m not talking bad about it!
I’ve seen plenty of car sites proclaiming “Tata Nano now in stores!”. Thanks TTAC for highlighting the truth.
The Car = Economic Prosperity.
Where does this nonsense come from?
The car, it’s infrastructure and it’s mutant creation of suburbia are the most inefficient waste of resources ever dreamed up by man.
Developing nations do not need cars everywhere to be productive.
I’m not saying “they’re about to take my oil”, but I am saying it will have an effect across the world as India and China develop into more fossil fuel dependent countries. American’s particularly aren’t going to like it.
The Indians and Chinese might be well pleased that they help make the US economy less efficient again as all the citizens are spending a hefty amount of their bankrupt country’s income on fuel.
They’ll be pleas for ‘gas holidays’ again before you know it….and the %% of disposable income spent on inefficient commute transport will leap again.
I’d also thank people to not call me American.
PeteMoran :
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pm
American’s particularly aren’t going to like it.
Indians/Chinese didn’t like G.W.Bush either. Did Americans give them a damn?
The Indians and Chinese might be well pleased that they help make the US economy less efficient again as all the citizens are spending a hefty amount of their bankrupt country’s income on fuel.
A rise in fuel price can only lead to increased efficiency. Inefficient factories or products will simply die out. Think GM. Think pickup.
@ wsn
A rise in fuel price can only lead to increased efficiency. Inefficient factories or products will simply die out. Think GM. Think pickup.
True in a sense (about the pickup), but ‘developed’ economies haven’t held up well to rises in oil price, where-as ‘less’ developed countries don’t notice so much.
People need to bone up on the concept of Comparative Advantage.
they’re planning a mid year upgraded model called “The Wagoner”…it’s rumored to only run in reverse, can’t turnaround, and is greatly overvalued even with the standard external cup holder shaped like a hand. however they will allow you to stack your GM Card points with available Retired Rickshaw Runner Rupee Rebate. as an added bonus you get Slumdog Rick’s hand sewn, embroidered “RIR” on the custom COWHIDE interior, especially developed by GM’s marketing staff after extensive consumer research on the Indian purchasing public.
savvy shoppers will of course hold out for the eventual and inevitable Red Dot Sale.
__________________
I love reading Nano comments from so-called “First Worlders”. Instead of thinking how cheap the Nano is why not consider how expensive your cars are. Its almost like a conspiracy on a mass scale – price-fixing by ALL the major automakers. They can easily build a fantastic 2-seater with US safety specs for less than $9k. This would satisfy most peoples commuter needs and allow them to have a large car for their family outings. Yet with a bunch of clever marketing most folks are duped into squandering their discretionary funds on status and sex appeal.
Hopefully Indian, Chinese and to some degree Korean manufacturers will finally burst the bloated auto industry’s bubble.
Those of you who won’t trust reviews from India based sites here is one from the UK:
“One of the most extraordinary experiences of my motoring life” Steve Cropley
I very much agree that the Indians are “The New Japanese”.
I think that in 10 years, there will be an Indian entry into the U.S. car market…. and they’ll get here the same way the Japanese did –
Offering high-quality, high-gas milage basic transportation vehicles.
I think that Indian cars will be much more reliable and acceptable to American consumers than the Chinese offerings will be. I think that the Chinese need another 20 years or so of direct custoner contact industrial experience before they’re ready to take on the sales and marketing of their domestic vehicles in the international market.
Right now, all their quality control is forced on them by outside companies who buy their parts…. it’s different when you have to force it on yourself to the detriment of profits.
The Tata is a good example of why America needs to get their house(s) in order. There is going to be increasing competition by the Chinese and Tata AND increasing competition FOR markets, work, and resources.
America needs to move away from a growth economy or at least prepare for growth to dwindle.
Once again Europe is ahead of us and their experiences can show the way. Not saying the have the answers – just saying that they are already facing alot of the problems we will soon enough. I am beginning to believe that GDP is not the best measure of a successful economy.
Hullo,
I think most western bloggers here have not appreciated the raison d’etre of the Nano : to provide affordable and reasonably safe transportation to an Indian family of four for town driving.
The Nano is not meant to be compared in driving characteristics and its fuel consumption footprint with the Suburban ( whatever that might be – perhaps some gas guzzling SUV unknown to more than 75% of the world’s population!)anymore than the Prius can be compared to the Concorde.
I believe that the Tatas have been pushed back a bit due to the dramatic change in their factory location at short notice with the attendant losses in investments made. They have to quickly recoup and increase production to hundreds of thousands ( if not millions)to make the Nano a success, not only in India, but also in other low income countries which want to climb out of the poverty trap asap. If the recession struck Europeans and Americans find a need for a low cost, reliable city runabout conforming to safety standards, it would be nice. If not it doesn’t matter. It also doesn’t matter to 75% of the world.