John R writes:
My car has TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System). I have a set of wheels with fresh summer Sumitomos from a previous car that will fit my Sonata, but they don’t have the radio doodad in the rim. These tires barely have 500 miles on them and they are just sitting around. I want to wear them out and be done with them. Is it okay to mount them if they fit?
Sajeev replies:
Ideally, the tires should go on the OEM wheels, or the OEM pressure sensors on the other wheels. I’m guessing the first isn’t an option, but the second is worth trying. Many aftermarket wheels have provisions for a wide variety of sensors, and there are only a handful of TPMS vendors on the planet anyway. Usually a car runs fine with zero input from the sensors, except for the warning message on the dash.
But that might burn a code in the engine computer. Which might make you fail your annual state inspection. The worst case scenario? The system might activate traction control/active handling after receiving radio silence from the TPMS for a few miles. Even if it does, you may never notice because of the Sonata’s “anti-hoonage” suspension tuning. I think it’s worth a shot.
If the Sonata throws a code and makes life hell, put the stock stuff back on, disconnect the battery overnight, hold both (positive and negative) cables together and reconnect the cables in the morning. And with that, I ask the B&B for their educated guesses to this quandary.
[Send your technical queries to sajeev.mehta@thetruthaboutcars.com]
Taking the sensors off the OEM wheels and putting them on the other wheels is a good way to damage them, and they are not cheap.
My G35 was fine with a sensor-less winter wheel/tire combo, except for beeping when I started it and the annoying dash light (I previously owned a BMW, so I was used to dash lights and was happy to see a dash light that did not require me to visit an asshole BMW dealer to have a poorly built BMW fixed).
I was still able to turn off traction control, and I did it did not seem like the active safety systems were intruding any more than normal.
If you want to be safe read the owner’s manual and maybe call someone at Hyundai.
I’ve run several thousand miles with a 2007 Sonata equipped with TPMS, without TPMS sensors in the wheels.
I got around it by specifying that the car didn’t have TPMS on the website where I ordered the winter wheels & tires, which saved me $400.
I’m a car guy. I don’t need a reminder to check my tire pressures.
Now that we bought the new 2009 Sonata instead of the leased 2007 car, the alloys are going to lose the winter tires, the “3-season” Michelins and tire pressure sensors are going from the steel wheels onto/into the alloys, and the winter tires will be mounted on the factory steel wheels with conventional valve stems. It’ll set me back $160, possibly as much as $20 a wheel extra if a flange (?) can’t be saved from the transfer from one wheel to the other. (I have a friendly tire store which is willing to look the other way from the ‘rule book’ and do it for me).
Not having TPMS for 4 or 5 months of the year is okay by me. In fact, I could do without it forever, but Nanny Gummint doesn’t give me that choice.
I don’t have TPMS sensors in the winter tires/wheels for my 2008 Prius, either, and other than the light on the instrument panel lighting up, neither car seems to be affected at all. (These winter tires & alloy wheels were originally bought for a 2005 Prius which didn’t have TPMS).
I simply put a small piece of electrical tape over the **** dashboard light, then remove it when I put the TPMS equipped wheels back on in the spring.
It is getting more and more difficult to NOT have to spend the extra $400 when buying a second set of wheels and tires, however. Perhaps impossible, by now. For example, when you go to tirerack.com and put in 2009 Sonata, I don’t think it gives you the option of not buying TPMS equipped wheels any more? Certainly most local tire outlets won’t sell wheels without it on TPMS equipped cars, I have heard.
Wheels designed for TPMS sensors have counterweights on the opposite side of the wheel to compensate for the sensor mass (it’s typically additional metal cast into a spoke). Mounting the sensors on a wheel without this counterweight will create a wheel imbalance.
Because of this, wheels that accept the sensor typically have a unique opening for the valve stem, which also prevents you from mounting the sensor on a standard rim.
Regarding engine codes, there is no legal requirement to link TPMS inputs to the engine control system. So while a manufacturer MAY choose to link the two (you never know…), most TPMS systems will turn on a dashboard warning light without any impact on the engine control system.
I agree with Menno- Running wheels wihout a TPMS sensor will only turn activate the TPMS warnings, not affect vehicle operation.
Grrrrrrr. One more contrivance to make modern car ownership a hellish nightmare. I can hear the words of my now-deceased car mentor: “Never buy an old luxury car.” I mean, who needs tire pressure monitoring? This feature just brings out the curmudgeon in me. “Why, when I was your age, we used to have to get down on our knees and check the tire pressure BY HAND!”
I know, I know. We already have ABS, seat warmers, navi systems, electronic sensors galore and more computing power than a ’70s mainframe, so what’s the big deal about tire pressure monitoring. I guess nobody drives Ford Model A’s any more. But I just miss a good, simple, honest car.
Three words: black electrical tape.
All the car people here are religious about checking tire pressure every week. I can feel it :)
BUT, for us, TPMS pays off if you run over some debris that causes a small leak while driving on a road trip. The alert will go off and allow you to get it fixed or changed before it destroys a tire. For the rest of the population, it’s like the low fuel alert… HEY STUPID FIX IT NOW, LOL
jpcavanaugh :
I can hear the words of my now-deceased car mentor: “Never buy an old luxury car.” I mean, who needs tire pressure monitoring?
According to Congress, everybody. TPMS is no longer a luxury car option, it is a federally mandated requirement. For the past couple of year, every new car has come with this feature.
Dave Skinner : Wheels designed for TPMS sensors have counterweights on the opposite side of the wheel to compensate for the sensor mass (it’s typically additional metal cast into a spoke). Mounting the sensors on a wheel without this counterweight will create a wheel imbalance.
Dave, I have seen different aftermarket wheels get around this by adding the stick on wheel weights during the balancing process. Its not a big deal, especially since many companies (like the hyper-expensive HRE) have enough space for a TMPS or a conventional valve stem.
I used to work on the TPMS program for your model. The sensor is a valve-mount model made by Lear corp. The sensors have lock nuts that prevent them from being moved from rim to rim without a new lock nut, so I’d suggest just going without.
It will throw a code for the TPMS system failure, but you are free to ignore it. There is no link to any engine system, or any other system for that matter.
Easy fix: (I’m working on this right now – because I’m getting new wheels and tires and I ain’t payin’ for new sensors). Get a small pvc pipe from the hardware store. Seal one end, put a shrader valve in the other. Put the sensors inside and pump it up to 30psi or so (pvc is usually rated to 200psi, so it’s not an issue). Put the pipe in the trunk. Now the computer will see the sensors within range and you can swap wheels and tires all you want.
miked:
The easy fix is a small piece of electrical tape over the dash light (if you can’t just ignore it).
Many of the sensors are almost impossible to remove without damaging them.
Well, I’m a car guy too, and yes I check my pressures, but I still wish I had TPMS for the tires as well as for the spare stored under the hatchback floor.
I hurt my back checking my tire pressures once; back in 1995 or so. What a nasty night that was; followed by a terrible, agonizing 3-hour drive home afterward. If I’d only had TPMS, I might never ever have hurt my back. Or I could have hurt it the following day picking up a penny off the ground; one never knows.
As was mentioned before, you can suddenly develop a leak while on a trip. You can also wake up one morning and drive all the way to work without knowing that one tire is down to 25 PSI. I don’t always do a “pilot walkaround” before getting in the car. It’s just not always practical. But still, I’d rather know about a low (or flat) tire sooner than later.
And sheesh, it’s such a pain to unload the hatch and pull out the spare. To check/fill, the Prius spare must be completely removed from the hatch. That’s because the valve stem is on the side facing down. If you try to install it the other way, the spare won’t fit in its bay correctly.
Plus, with my bad back, I’d just as soon only remove the spare when I actually need to fill it or mount it on the car.
“I’m a car guy. I don’t need a reminder to check my tire pressures.”
Let’s all sing a tune of “macho man” for you.
When I have a car with TPMS I’m going to buy sensors for every set of wheels I have for it.
I’m guessing that if you are rich enough to own a car with TPMS that you can afford extra sensors.
Quit whining about it.
My 2004 Nissan came with TPMS, which is not required in Canada even today, and the warning light was the least of my problems. On cold mornings they system would wait about a minute, then scream at me like a 5am alarm clock after a night of Tequila shooters. And when I put some new Michelins on it, the experts at Costco managed to damage one of the sensors despite my warnings. The damage didn’t immediately manifest itself, and would have cost me $250 if not for the Nissan dealer’s generosity in slipping it through under warranty.
My new Santa Fe has no such system, thank God. I don’t need a screaming nanny telling me to check my tires, turn on my wipers, or wipe my nose. Anybody who does should not be driving a car.
DaveSkinner:
According to Congress, everybody. TPMS is no longer a luxury car option, it is a federally mandated requirement. For the past couple of year, every new car has come with this feature.
This must be really recent. I have a 2007 Honda Fit that is not equipped with this feature.
And to the guys who suggested black electrical tape: you are my heroes.
My father works for Enterprise Rent-a-car, and was telling me a month or two ago about one of their Toyota SUVs, came in with a “check tire air pressure warning light” lit. Took it to the dealer and it turned out the damned SPARE was low!
what really happens is the TPMS light blinks on and off relentlessly, driving you crazy.
This must be really recent. I have a 2007 Honda Fit that is not equipped with this feature.
It is a new rule. It’s now mandatory for all new cars sold in the US.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TREAD/MileStones/FRSec13-RevisedFinalRule.htm
Having dynamic, real-time tire pressure monitoring does not preclude one from checking the tire pressure on a monthly basis as recommended in the Owner’s Manual.
Agreed, having it makes aftermarket and winter wheels more expensive but wasn’t additional safety and peace of mind one of the reasons for buying the new ride?
Defeat it to save a buck? Not on your life. A very dumb and self-inflicted de-contenting.
Took it to the dealer and it turned out the damned SPARE was low!
So the spare was then properly inflated and suitable for use should it be needed?
Think about it.
Take out the cluster and pop the bulb out.
Might as well take out the flashing seatbelt light while you are there.
A sensor on the wheel?
In my car (different brand) it just measures the speed of each wheel through the ABS system. And if a tire is low it does not match the revolutions of the other wheel and trips the system.
Black electrical tape also works for in dash shift lights, the one in my old Saab was brutal.
My problem with TPMS is that overwhelming majority of it’s warnings on my wife’s ’04 Mercury were false positive. After a while you just ignore it.
I hope they worked out some bugs by now before it became mandatory.
@fisher72 – about that shift light on your Saab…I’m assuming it’s the old C900, because mine has the same thing. Nice thing is that it’s on it’s own fuse. I just pulled that fuse and all is well now.
I don’t need a screaming nanny telling me to check my tires, turn on my wipers, or wipe my nose. Anybody who does should not be driving a car.
Many, many (MANY) car owners do not even know they are suppoused to check tyre pressure. The issue is simply out of their minds.
I have seen incredible low pressures in the tyres of friends´cars (specially in the case of she friends).
Many of the even went to College (…and finished). The technical illiteracy of the average Jon/Jane Doe is unbelievable.
Agreed, A is A: TPMS isn’t for the car people. It’s for all the people who don’t ever check their air pressure – and there are way more of “them” than “us”.
I’ve known quite a few of those people, and most would respond to the light on their dash (people who really don’t care are a whole other issue). Because I drive on roads with other people, and because I’ve watched those people driving with <8 psf in their tires, I’m okay with a mandated system.
I’m going through this with my new Saab. I have BBS wheels that the stock sensors won’t fit that I am using for summer. There are a couple options:
1. Best – get another set of sensors and mount them with bands to the inside of the BBS wheels. I will do this once the price of the sensors comes down to reality. I actually do like the idea of TPMS.
2. Rest of the World option. In Europe, the system is programmed to shut down if it sees all four inputs missing. That way it does not nag you when the snow tires are on. In theory, this should be possible to do if I can get my hands on an up-to-date Saab Tech-II unit to do the programming. But the dealers probably won’t do so on liability grounds.
3. Does the “put them in a sealed container” method really work? My understanding was that in order to preserve the battery in them, the sensors have to be in motion to activate. I would have no problem fabbing up a PVC container to get to when the sensor prices get more reasonable.
For those who say to stop whining about paying an extra $400 for each new set of tires for the added safety and peace of mind it brings,
I don’t need a tire pressure sensor to tell me my air pressure is too low or a government to fine me for an unsafe polluting vehicle (see California) because my car has several low tire pressure codes stored in it. These are no longer optional; they are governemnt mandated.
I say, if you can stand the idiot light (that’s who its designed for) just run the tires without the TPMS. If it doesn’t have an adverse affect on the car’s other safety systems, you’re good to go. If it does or you live in California, then I guess you will have to fork over the $400 or let the tires go to waste clogging up a landfill in the name of preserving the environment and saving people from themselves.
I’ve watched those people driving with <8 psf
I have seen 0.5psi in the five tires in some cars.
Inflating those tyres actually raised visibly the car. Amazing. “Normal” people who pays their bills, their taxes, have decent jobs and careers. “Responsible citizens” who blissfully ignore that when you drive pressurized air and some rubber is all that is between you and an untimely death.
Owners were impervious to my strong suggestions about dumping those underinflated tyres.
I’ve known quite a few of those people, and most would respond to the light on their dash (people who really don’t care are a whole other issue)
Those are the one that should not be driving in the first place.
Cars are potentially lethal.
* In 2005 there were 30694 fatalities by firearm in the USA. 55% of them were suicides.
* In the same year there were 43667 fatalities caused by motor vehicle traffic in the USA.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_10.pdf
Cars should be handled with the same caution and seriousness as firearms.
@ A of A: I don’t need a screaming nanny telling me to check my tires,…
Isn’t it preferable to have an indicator of a hazardous condition prior to any physical manifestation of the circumstance? A head’s up to allow you an alternate outcome would be pretty cool, wouldn’t it?
Do REAL Car Guys really want to discover a tire has lost pressure by experiencing wildly excessive oversteer or understeer in a sharp corner with little time or roadway to correct?
In a straight line you can run a tire almost flat and as long as it stays on the rim, you may never notice anything is wrong. It’s in the corners where the unexpected loss of handling due to an unknown flat gets your ticket punched.
TPMS is not a replacement for the normal tire pressure checks. It is an advance warning system there is a failure in the tire, rim, or valve stem and the air pressure has dropped to the point where something really bad is possibly in your near future.
Consider it a warning device that taking the next corner “at speed” is probably ill-advised.
@ Lumbergh21 I don’t need a tire pressure sensor to tell me my air pressure is too low….
I bolted a seat to each fender and when I go somewhere, I have a buddy sit in each one of them to keep an eye on the tire to watch for road hazard damage or defects in materials and/or workmanship.
I do, however, have a problem with oncoming truck mirrors bashing into the guys on the left and mailboxes clobbering those on the right side. Maybe I should have them wear helmets. Even with that, I tell ya, I don’t need a tire pressure sensor to tell me my air pressure is too low.
What I DO need is more buddies. I seem to be going through them at quite a, er, clip.
ttacfan: My problem with TPMS is that overwhelming majority of it’s warnings on my wife’s ‘04 Mercury were false positive. After a while you just ignore it.
I hope they worked out some bugs by now before it became mandatory
Glad it isn’t just me. My ’01 Windstar’s TPMS goes nuts every so often. I stop, check all pressures, get back in, toss the gauge back into the door pocket, cuss, and reset the warning. Maybe Ford got these right for newer models?
My wife is not a car guy. I do not think she is in the minority.
@ krhodes1: I’m going through this with my new Saab. 1. Best – get another set of sensors…
You get it.
Skip no.s 2 and 3. Live long and prosper.
ALSO
Did we not just read about one million valve stems made in China over the past five years or so were recalled?
I do not recall what the failre mode was other than the tire went down. As usual, the MSM news is mostly useless regarding things we really need to know.
I just rechecked tirerack.com (remember, I just bought wheels & winter tires for the 2007 Sonata about 5 months ago). The price of four TPMS sensors has gone DOWN from $400 to under $140.
To avoid yanking the sensors from the steel wheels, I think I’ll order 4 sensors and have them plonked onto the alloys when I swap the summer tires from the new 2009 Sonata steel wheels onto the 5 month old alloy wheels.
Better to have winter tires on steel wheels anyway.
I have these on my Acura. They are always in exact agreement with my superduper calibrated gauge.
I consider them a convenience, but check my pressures every month at worst. I would not buy them if it was a choice.
Of course, just today I saw a typical SUV with a clearly low rear tire and oblivious owner, so it’s probably a good idea. Low tire pressures combined with crappy $1 OEM firestone tires did kill a few folks. We can debate whose fault it was, but this is a good idea for the masses.
In my car (different brand) it just measures the speed of each wheel through the ABS system. And if a tire is low it does not match the revolutions of the other wheel and trips the system.…
That type of indirect monitoring system is no longer suitable to meet the federal standard. Indirect systems can’t tell you which wheel is low, nor will they indicated a problem is all the tires are down the same amount of air pressure.
On my ’08 Accord, VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) cannot be turned off if the TPMS sensors are tripped or absent… so you can’t spin your way out of a snowpile or something… ouch!
Thanks for the input, guys. I tried putting them on this past weekend and they don’t fit so I’m just going to sell them. Wheel and all.
This Hyundai is as constant as the northern star, but it doesn’t take kindly to being messed with…at least so far.
My wife has a 2008 Sonata. We had winter wheels and tires on it all this past winter. The TPMS light was on all winter on the dash, but as soon as I put the OEM wheels back on this spring the light went out after a few miles.
Glad to know you do need the government looking after you carperson. We obviously have a philosophical difference with regards to the government’s place in our lives.
The only reason the government had to get involved is because the auto manufacturer’s refused to offer it on a large portion of their product line.
If it is related to vehicle safety or economy, the auto manufacturers have a long and soiled history of cage fighting any improvements. Nothing tried so far except government involvement has been successful getting this to change. Even huge lawsuit payouts continue to be one-off successes.
In my view, that we have had to legislate so much to get meaningful improvements is far more an indictment of the car companies attitudes than the results of an over-eager government in a desperate search of something, anything, to regulate.
We are going through a period of horrible corporate accountability to their suppliers, employees, stockholders, and customers. I look forward to the day when companies step it up so the government can step back.