Matt writes:
I currently drive a 2001 BMW 525it (Touring) which has been a pleasure to drive. Unfortunately the repair costs are starting to drive me crazy and leading me to consider replacing it with something newer, warrantied, and more reliable. The budget allows for approximately $25K CDN total on either a new or gently-used car.
The requirements are that it must be a hatchback/wagon, must be a manual, and should be able to seat 6′ passengers in the back seat. I’ve racked my brain trying to think of a suitable replacement, the leading contender at the moment is a VW Rabbit, although I’m less than impressed by the 5-cylinder lump under the hood. I did have high hopes for the Mazda3 Sport but after trying it out I was less than impressed. So any suggestions, or should I just keep funding my mechanic’s kids’ university education?
Sajeev writes:
With those requirements and the absolute coolness of your current vehicle, you are in a pickle. If the replacement must have top notch reliability which (by default) is a good long term value, anything with a VW badge is a tough sell. It is more of the same thing, except less. Three years from now, you’ll be more upset because you’re driving a cheap (but costly) FWD hatchback that can’t hold a candle to the Ultimate Driving Wagon. Seriously.
Too bad you didn’t like the Mazda3, that’s a good choice. The last generation Mazda 6 (wagon or hatch) would work, which is quite hard to find in the US. A Subaru wagon is good, though I suspect the less cool Forester is better for your rear seat requirements. But it goes downhill from there: the Chrysler PT Cruiser/Dodge Caliber with the turbo motor, Chevy HHR, Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, Scion xB, xD, and maybe the Kia Soul. Aside from the stealth factor of overboosting a Chrysler or corner carving in a Subie (sucking gas and breaking stuff left and right on either), I’d much rather run with what’cha brung. I mean, we’re talking about a E39 5-series wagon here.
Your car is an Executive Express, and I have a sneaking suspicion you quite like that. Every car is a money pit at certain time/mileage intervals. The question is, are you willing to learn more, read the forums and take a more active role in the diagnosis, parts acquisition and the ultimate repair of your vehicle? If you have an honest, BMW savvy mechanic who doesn’t mind inquisitive customers, stick with what you have. With the money you will save, maybe put some M5 wheels and front bumper on for a dash of flair.
If you just want a new car, the ones from my list should fit the bill. But they will all be a step down the food chain. And paying more to wind up with less is never a good call in my book.
I don’t understand…If you would consider a Rabbit, it seems that a 5-Door WRX would be a slam dunk! You would have to forgive the sub-Teutonic interior appointments, but the grin on your face after the first drive – and knowing you get full warranty coverage – should make up for that.
Or one of the larger Subarus (Forester/Legacy/Outback) with a turbo. I’m surprised that an ’01 BMW is already so unreliable. (Incidentally, my Subaru of the same vintage is rock solid: not a single thing wrong with it.)
Legacy 2.5GT Wagon, although its kind of rare, so YMMV.
What about an ’06 or ’07 Magnum SRT-8? It’d be hilarious after your BMW.
What about a Cadillac SRX? It is after all just a tall wagon. I have an ’04 that i bought new in Jan ’04 and I have never had any problems whatsoever with it. It would certainly hold your 6-footers with no problem.
Sean: No stick in the Magnum.
Oh, after this got published, I remembered that Volvo/Saab have a few wagons that might fit the bill. Only problem is I have a hard time recommending either until the companies’ respectives futures are clear. Either of them…but especially Saab.
I’d buy a set of BMW shop manuals (or a CD manual) and start learning a bit more about how these cars work.
And pocket the 25k for future purchases or investments.
A V8 Magnum and an extended warranty might be a good way to go. I’m not much of a Chrysler fan, but the Charger/Magnum seems to hold up fairly well mechanically, and if you can live with the somewhat chintzy interior (not as bad in black leather), the V8 power should afford you a little fun. If it’s better fuel economy you desire, the 5 Door WRX as suggested above is a pretty hot ticket. Nothing is going to drive like your BMW, and if you aren’t ready to make concessions to that end, then you’re going to have to be prepared to keep it and drop money into it.
edit: No stick in the Magnum… I had forgotten that requirement.
Sigh…why can Nissan sell the Stagea over here?
But, yeah. WRX FTW, but not the 2008s though.
Matt didn’t mention mileage, but he did mention CDN$, so I assume he is in the Great White North. I’ve owned, and kept for (too?) long intervals, many German and Swedish cars in New England, a climate closer to Canada than, say, Southern California. Some things seem to let go because of age (drying plastics and rubber, corroding metal). I think the drastic temperature swings we have (-10F to +100F) speed up the process. 8 years sounds about right for those little “non-essential-but-essential” gizmos to start acting up, even if the car has been garaged. I wish I knew what to do about it. Maybe some kind of preventative maintenance?
Every month, I read the Tech column in the BMW Roundel (BMW Car Club of America magazine). I get this impression of BMW drivetrains: the 6-cyl engines like in his 525it are bulletproof, the manual transmissions almost bulletproof, and the automatic transmissions are grenades waiting to explode.
If he has an automatic with problems, looking for an alternative ride make sense.
Sajeev – that’s good recession-proof advice, but where’s the fun in that?
’05 S4 Avant? Hard to find, especially with a manual. I think it might crowd your price point too.
this 5 series touring is one of my favorite sport wagons. not sure what’s available in the American market, but what about a slightly used 3 series touring? wouldn’t it fit the bill?
Legacy GT or GTI.
As someone who just hocked his Saab hatchback for similar reasons, I know your pain: keep the snazzy wheels and live with the cost and unreliability, or pick a commodity ride and live with banality.
For the record, I bought a Sienna. I have one young child and at least one on the way and fitting child seats and stuff in a car was going to prove troublesome. I live somewhere that getting stranded on the road would be a real problem, and my wife doesn’t handle that sort of thing well. It was better for all parties to buy the Maytag. And in number of way, I appreciate the Maytag-Zen of the Sienna.
Now, having said that, you have a very cool car. Unless you have a really good reason to move to a different class of vehicle (and it doesn’t sound like you do, given what else you were looking at) and you’ve got a good mechanic, and it’s breaking won’t seriously inconvenience or endanger you, I would keep it. I would have kept the Saab if I still lived in Toronto and was within easy distance of Jeremy’s Auto Service (tip, if you own a mildly exotic car and live in Toronto, this guy is golden). Nothing you can buy with $25K will be this good, and that same $25K spent on your 525 will go a really long way into making it a very good vehicle.
$25K can also buy a lot of modifications, even for a car like this. Dinan has a nice web store makes it really easy to blow a lot of money on your car.
Seeing your requirement that 6′ passengers should be able to fit in the rear seats, I went to TrueDelta to do a comparison of the interior dimensions of the VW Rabbit and the Suzuki SX4. The Rabbit is listed as having 38.5″ of headroom and 35.3″ of legroom, while the SX4 has 37.5″ of headroom and 35.9″ of legroom.
As for your price range, a 2009 SX4 Hatchback JLX (the top trim level) has a Canadian MSRP of $23,195.
I have the very same requirements for my next car.
On paper, the Passat wagon and the Jetta Sportwagen (TDI or 2.0T) are the ideal car. Nicely appointed, roomy, and available manual transmission. Even though CR now recommends the Jetta, the reliability issue still really worries me.
Two cars already mentioned are on my current list, but not without reservation: Mazda3 (a little cheesy?) and Subaru Forester (dorky, don’t need AWD).
The current Subaru Outback has a tight backseat, but a new, enlarged Subaru Legacy is in the pipeline. The sedan looks pretty good, which makes me hopeful for the Outback wagon version. A six-speed manual is also promised.
Supposedly Honda is going to release a jacked-up and stretched version of the Accord wagon in order to compete with the Venza and Outback. One can hope it’ll be offered with a manual, but so many of its current offerings are not.
A Cadillac CTS sport wagon is due, promised with a 6 speed manual. Sounds and looks great IMO. But we’re talking GM here, so it may be soon, two years from now, or never.
A used Volvo V50 may be worth considering. Its pretty, but not a stellar car, and its small. I may be wrong, but I believe the manual was only available on the turbo engine choice and may be hard to come by.
For myself, I’ve even thought about a Saturn (Opel) Astra – a car that competes head to head with the VW Golf in Europe. Its frugal and nicely finished and can be had for a song. Its on the small side though, and with Saturn tanking, it’ll continue to depreciate rapidly.
Its depressing that there are so few offerings here yet so many of this type available in the European market.
Why can’t there be a Lexus IS Sportcross again (this time offered with a manual)? Or perhaps better yet the Euro Accord Tourer sold as an Acura TSX Sport Wagon?
Please, can you provide more detail as to the nature of the problems and their costs?
I am considering a vehicle just like yours for my next ride. Or at least I was….Your experience could be enlightening for me.
I have a rock solid Nissan Quest and the kids will be big enough for me to go the other way in a year or two, to a car about a foot lower.
Thank-you!
By the way, you can pick up a 1 year old Mazda6 wagon, v6 for much less than 25k. Good driver and rock solid.
sean362880 : Sajeev – that’s good recession-proof advice, but where’s the fun in that?
‘05 S4 Avant? Hard to find, especially with a manual. I think it might crowd your price point too.
Oh come on now! How can you not have fun in a E39 5-series…especially if it has a stick? (I kinda assume that considering Matt’s insistence on buying a new car without a slushbox)
The Audi will be a great car, but the cost of ownership (long term) will be just as bad as the Bimmer. Maybe worse, from what I’ve seen in the labor involved to do much of anything on modern Audis.
Keep the E39….anything newer/cheaper doesn’t drive as well, or look as good. You’ll miss it, and eventually end up getting another one. (Ask me how I know)
A used Volvo V50 may be worth considering. Its pretty, but not a stellar car, and its small. I may be wrong, but I believe the manual was only available on the turbo engine choice and may be hard to come by.
Cramped. Cramped, cramped, cramped. Did I mention cramped? Really cramped.
The seats are awfully nice, though.
Keep the wagon. Learn how to do the diag and little things yourself. That is a sweet ride and you will be hating life after downgrading yourself to a lesser hatch.
Another option is a Dodge Magnum, and then do a keisler conversion to a 6 speed, they are working on a kit for the LX cars http://www.keislerauto.com.
I’d buy a set of BMW shop manuals (or a CD manual) and start learning a bit more about how these cars work.…
Sounds good, but did the poster of the question indicate that he has any inclination toward being mechanically involved with his ride? For those of us who enjoy this kind of thing, your advice is right on. Fixing your own car can be a source of real personal satisfaction. But if not, this is not a very good “starter” car (no pun intended) to learn on. To do more than basic mechanical service, you will need a pretty large assortment of tools. Nothing is more of a drag than getting half way into a repair job, only to find out that you need a special tool and you have just rendered you car inoperable. Electronic items can be perplexing even for professional wrenches. And without a proper scan tool to communicate with your car, diagnostics will be all but impossible. (BMW, by the way, is one of the worst automakers out there when it comes to making information available for the aftermarket repair industry). Just my two cents..
Seriously though – there is a wealth of online information about DIY repairs, especially for BMW owners (since the cars are pretty easy to work on, and owners are tired of getting robbed at the dealer.) I just changed a water pump, valve cover gasket, and spark plugs on my 3-series for about $130 total in parts and 4 hours of time. The dealer wanted over $1000!
Stick with the 5-series, you’re not going to beat that car’s zeitgeist.
Subaru has dropped Legacy wagon back in 06 so you are stuck hunting around for heavily rebated or used Outback 2.5XT (available with 5spd manual). However, even though you get the Turbo you are now stuck with vague steering and bouncy handling compared to the Bimmer.
Used Mazda6 sport wagon with 3.0 and 5spd. Great handling, good steering feel for a FWD…back seat can get tight. I know, I have one.
New Audi A4 or A6 wagon – No stick with wagon available. Used Audi wagon – yeah….good luck with that.
VW – You can only get the Jetta wagon with a stick. Might be worth taking a look at one.
Saab – New? Nope…Used – Nope
As For CUV’s – Guess what….they are not sporting…they are not “alternatives” to wagons they are what they are. Bland handling + excess weight for the “I just want to be safe on the way to the mall set”. Place you “car guy” card in the nearest mailbox.
If you want a proper wagon with great handling and manual transmission, move to Europe.
Like Sajeev said, it’s a shame you didn’t like the Mazda(Speed)3. I did test it myself and compared to the 6 sedan that I eventually bought, it is pretty cramped inside. You can’t get the 6 Wagon with a 6 speed manual but you could try your luck on finding a V6 hatch…or a slightly used WRX hatch would more fit the bill. The old Lexus IS300 Sportcross is another (rare) choice as well.
If all else fails, you might as well keep the E39 and live with its unreliability and quirks.
Look no further than Suburu. Anything German lately seems to have degraded in reliability and they are very expensive to get fixed, especially by the dealer who charges a mortgage payment to even look at them. The Outback and Forester are both wagon made and offer sticks and decent reliability. And they are priced for the everyday budget. They may be bland looking but may suite your needs quite well.
golden2husky: Sounds good, but did the poster of the question indicate that he has any inclination toward being mechanically involved with his ride?
Your points are worth remembering for the entire Piston Slap series.
So, to clarify my angle for Matt’s situation, I mentioned the shop manuals/forums to become an informed consumer of all things related to 5-series ownership, not to become a shade tree mechanic. There’s no better high than knowing what’s wrong with your car (specifically) and how to fix it. Its the only assurance that you won’t get screwed when it comes to paying for its repair.
And sometimes, being an informed consumer makes you an important part of the diagnosis and repair. Some mechanics actually like having a knowledge leader for a specific model in their shop, even if its a customer.
Matt, the problem with owning a luxury car is the cost of ownership. A $3 key for a Camry costs $150 for an ES350. A $20 air filter on an Avalon costs $80 for an LS430.
$25k goes a long way for fixing things as they break, and you’ve only used up half it’s life expectancy, I’d keep her. A thorough car detailing may be all you need to change your mind.
I’m with Sajeev, thats an awefully beautiful Bimmer to let go. Check Bimmerforums. Every problem ever has been discussed to death there.
Having never worked on any car in my life (fair disclosure: I was an automotive engineer for 7 years), I learned how to diagnose and fix/preventatively maintain/upgrade nearly every system in my E36 M3 with the Bimmerforums and a Bently manual. I did all the work by myself, with the exception of pushing out/in subframe, diff and RLCA/RUCA bushings and alingments, using a small toolkit and some jackstands. And there are plenty of vendors that sell discounted parts and plenty more that sell sweet upgrades for wayy less than Dinan..
You can’t get the 6 Wagon with a 6 speed manual
Did they not make a stick-shift wagon in the US? They had them in Canada, though they were somewhat rare.
The old Lexus IS300 Sportcross is another (rare) choice as well.
You cannot get this car with a manual at all and you cannot get it cheaply, from what I’ve seen. But it is a very good car, equipped as it is with the Supra’s inline six, which is well known, quite solid, and tunable within an inch of it’s life.
I’d give it the edge in handling over a contemporary 3-Series, and it’s certainly easier to keep up. Other than it’s being kind of cramped in the rear, it’s a great car.
Tough, Tough, Tough! ^^
Well, if you want something reliable, you might consider the WRX. Problem with that is, it is kind of thirsty for fuel (guzzler – just check the fuel ratings). Or maybe, just maybe – consider one of those cube type things (Nissan).
I currently drive a VW Rabbit. It has 15,165 miles on it. So far this is the reliability on it:
Replace a light bulb
Replace a seat belt sensor
After driving it ferociously hard (something I did, really) on a parking lot in Winter the (lowered) suspension now makes little squeeking noises every once in awhile.
That’s it. Pretty dang good, so far (other than the realization that I should be driving a GTI). Volkswagen is similar to BMW in some ways, yet there are differences. Volkswagen is less expensive and has more of an “everyday use” feel to it. Volkswagen is more of an, like a rough and tumble (yet still nice) everyday car. BMW just feels more like a luxury car. The BMW presence is that of high priced luxury. BMW usually has much more “settings” available in their vehicles – this can be a help or a problem varying on your perspective.
Or, if you want (or like) BMW, then perhaps consider a Mini Cooper. It is the “quirky” BMW brand now and offers some amount of driving fun. However, keep in mind that they are uh, well, Mini so the hatchback factor is kind of limited.
Or maybe, maybe, maybe you might consider a little something called a Taurus X.
Think. Search far and wide. If you are considering a Subaru or a Volkswagen, make sure to check those fuel ratings. The GTI has up to 31 mpg highway. The WRX guzzles it up at 25 mpg highway. The WRX is an insanely fast, reliable gas guzzler. The GTI is a refined, fast enough fuel sipper.
Two words: Honda Fit
Seriously. Hatchback. Manual trans. I have a 6’3″+ kid who fits in the back seat with plenty of headroom. Dead reliable and you can buy a brand new one on your budget. Fun to drive, economical and reliable. What it will not do is inflate your ego the way anything German will.
I’m going to vote for keeping the E39 too.
However, if you MUST have something else I’d suggesting hitting the BMW website and doing a search for a CPO 3 or 5 series touring. There are some sticks out there if you look. The warranty should help keep your maintenance costs reasonable for a while at least.
You wont find a recent 5 series in your budget, but you might still find an E46 3-series if you look.
You should check out the Audi Allroad (2004-5), it is a wagon, it comes in manual, and it seats 6’3″+ people comfortably both in the front and the back. If you go through Audi’s certified pre-owned program it will have a good warranty. This car has real quattro drive (Torsen) + adjustable height air suspension (can do both offroading and fast highway driving). Audis are very well built in my opinion, but for some reason they get bad reliability rep in the States (not in Europe though).
How about a lightly used Mazda 6 GT wagon?
You would probably have $7K left over of your $25 K limit.
I don’t have any recommendations, since a Mazda3 hatch has already been shot down, but I can say that the Mazda6 hatch has less headroom than the sedan. Room for a 6-footer behind a 6-footer was a requirement for me and my wife (both 6’+) as well, and we had no problem with the Mazda6 (or for that matter the Mazda3 or Mazdaspeed3). However, my head rubbed agaist the roof in the back seat of the Mazda6 hatch.
Passat wagon or Volvo V70 are two of the few answers to the question, and I’m not sure if you can still get a V70 with a manual tranny. As used cars the manual sells at a big discount.
Your best option: Move. Europe is chock full of interesting choices which meet your requirements. The US seems stuck in a weird automatic transmission sedan/suv/truck eddy current. Canada mostly gets stuck with the same automotive choices as the US.
Since you live in Canada, you can actually purchase a Legacy wagon brand new with a manual transmission in the non-turbo engine. Although that is over your $25kCAD limit, you should be able to find a used one no problem. Also, if you are interested in the turbo with the manual transmission, Subaru ran that combination in the wagon for several years, not just in 05 as they did in the US.
I have an 05 Legacy 2.5GT wagon with 5MT and love it. There were a few minor issues that are typical of a new model year car, but mechanically it has been fantastic. It also has been autocrossed a few times and also run around a real track. It is a blast to drive, and you can throw a bunch of crap in it when you need to. At this point, you would have to pry it from my dead cold hands.
Did they not make a stick-shift wagon in the US? They had them in Canada, though they were somewhat rare.
From what I know, the 6 wagon came only with the V6 and 5 speed auto (I imagine for reliability purposes). The hatch came with the same engine/trans options as the sedan.
I’d say spring for the hatch if you can find it (I came across my current V6/5 speed manual 6 sedan quite by accident…glad I found it). For a family car, it’s pretty close to the 3 in terms of sporting dynamics, although the rear seat is a little tight.
But the E39 5 Series is gonna become quite the classic car (since not many people are like the E60’s styling). If you can’t find a suitable replacement for $25k, you might as well keep the E39 and spend the $25k on repairs.
Give the Elantra Touring a try (assuming it’s available in Canada).
WRX Wagon would seem to fit your criteria.
Keep the Bimmer. Take it from someone who’s been down the same road. You won’t be happy with less.
You didn’t mention what specific issues you’re experiencing, but as a previous poster mentioned, all cars have those times where they seem to be sinking pits of money. And even within the same family of vehicles there are ones that have issues, and ones that don’t. I’ve owned five M3’s (seven Bimmers total), and every single one has been rock solid and issue free (aside from regular maintenance) except the last one. It constantly needed something.
Anyway, my point is that if you like the car, keep it. Spend a few grand to freshen it up. Find a local independent shop and have them do a thorough inspection and service (Inspection 2 if memory serves). And if you feel like you’re getting nickeled and dimed by your mechanic, use Bimmerforums or bimrs.org to find another mechanic. The guy that I’ve used here locally (Monterey, CA) is so unbelievably fair and cost-effective, that I usually end up paying more or bringing him coffee or something. Like most things in life, it’s about the relationship.
As a former BMW dealership technician, I normally tell people they should never own a BMW that isn’t under warranty.
However, I agree with Sajeev and others here. Keep the Bimmer.
The E39 is old enough that it doesn’t have the nightmarish electronics that plague all E65 (the Bungled Bangled 7-series) and later BMWs. The major mechanical systems on the E39 (especially the 6-cylinder) are quite robust and will probably go 300k miles without rebuilding.
I suspect Matt is itching to dump it because he’s had a few major repairs recently, and he’s projecting that those costs will continue.
But that’s probably not true.
Instead, the major repairs have fixed the weak points, and the car will go several years before needing major repairs again (probably those same weak points).
Well-maintained BMWs are a real pleasure. Don’t be so quick to give that up.
SupaMan,
Stateside, the Mazda6 wagon up until this year’s redesign (which canned the wagon and hatch) was available with the 5-Speed manual V6 combination.
Thanks for all the great replies!
Most of these responses have pretty much confirmed what I already knew: there is no suitable replacement for this car, given my budget and other requirements.
Just to address some of the questions that arose:
Reliability: The car currently has 135,000 km (80k miles) on it, and living in the great white north (Edmonton, Alberta) where it goes from +30* C to -40* C is quite hard on a car. I have a great mechanic for the more complex jobs, and do most of the simple stuff myself. I knew upon purchasing the car that I’d have to replace the cooling system at ~130k kms; what I didn’t know, and perusing the forums provided very little insight, was that the crankcase ventilation system on the M54 can fail when exposed to extreme temps, pumping oil straight into the intake manifold! Luckily when this happened I shut off the engine before any damage occurred, but the repair for this system still ended up costing me dearly. Additionally, the secondary air pump recently went, and the replacement of that and the related parts set me back $1000. I realize that this is likely to be it for repairs for a while, yet I am concerned when neither my mechanic nor the dealership can give me any indication of what to proactively replace. Electronic woes also scare me, a friend had an e39 540i that developed numerous electrical maladies at around 150k kms. Apart from these concerns, my only issue with the car is the autotragic transmission, I wish BMW had sold them here with the option of a manual.
As far as the suggestions for alternatives go, I quite like the idea of a Subaru with a manual, oh wait. I have one in the family already (my S.O. drives a 2005 Outback 2.5i MT). I wouldn’t be averse to having two of the same car, although some variety might be nice. After having driven every car in my price range that fits my needs, i’d have to say that the Impreza 2.5i Sport 5MT is leading the pack.
Thanks again for all the comments!
Matt
what’s wrong with a used Legacy 2.5GT 5-speed wagon? It would spank your BMW and probably get comparable gas mileage with much lower maintenance costs.
You are crazy to drop a E39 for a Golf or a Subbie or , Lord have mercy on you, a Magnum. I live in Canada, too, and just spent 7KCdn (5.5KUS) to get a 230000km ’00 328 back-to-new status, including some reinforcing of the rear subframe play-dough.
Someone said above: the engine on your E39 is bullet-proof if you do the right routine. Your transmission, if manual, also bullet proof. Suspension, idem. There is nothing wrong on this vintage of 5 series.. a design that aged beautifully, pre-Bungle & pre i-drive-me-nuts.
ANY car of the same vintage will require attention. Wait to talk to ’06 Magnum owners in 2016 to see what they think of their cars.
Search any of the many BMW boards for the issue you have, or even the BMW Club of Canada board and find where other BMW victims in your area take their cars: You are not alone and it is not rocket science. There will be just 1-2 perhaps 3, at most, good BMW shops in your area, depending on where you live in Canada. Stay clear of dealers… they are for people that lease or have warranty issues. Get educated on the car, save yourself a bunch of grief and money. Properly maintained, this will be a great car to own for the next 10 years.
The industry is transitioning now. 95% of anything you buy today will be obsolete, technically speaking, in 10 years. The age of belts, non-regenerative braking, alternators, single-clutch, halogen is coming to an end, very much like drum brakes, dinamo, 3 speed and points came to an end abrubtly. Fix it, enjoy it for another decade and then get something truly new.
Matt, what’s the mileage on your 525it? Where do you live in Canada?
There’s not much of an alternative to an E39. I’m on my second one. I’ve looked for a newer car, but for me, a 2003 E39 does everything right.
Anyone owning an older BMW should find a good independent mechanic and join a few of the excellent BMW forums for troubleshooting and repair advice.
The weak link with these cars is their cooling system. 80k miles is considered the limit for the plastic radiator, fan, expansion tank, thermostat, and fan clutch. You’ve been warned.
I’m not sure, but is the 525 a single or double Vanos engine? Replacement of Vanos seals will show significant improvement in performance and efficiency. Research Beisan Systems.
P.S. Oops. I Just read your previous comment answering most of my questions.
A bit of a left-field choice, but how about a Saab? I just bought a brand-new left over ’08 9-3 SportCombi with 6spd manual transmission for the grand sum of $22K US. 4/48K warranty, 5/100K powertrain, 3/36K free maintenance. The back seat is a little tight, but with cooperation from the front passengers four 6 footer is perfectly possible. And this car can DANCE – I am really impressed by the ride-handling balance! Or for more interior room, a 9-5SC is only a little more, and a CPO used version of either would be MUCH less.
I think that at it’s $34K MSRP the 9-3 is tough to justify, but for $22K it’s a stunning car.
Yes there is some concern about Saab as a going concern, but I can’t help but I think that once the General is dis-entangled the Swedes will step up to the plate.
Matt,
E39 owner here. ’98 528i Sport with the stick and 125k miles. I got rubbed a little raw last year due to the window regulators (3 of the 4) and a door lock that won’t open. Cost of repair: $1900.
This year, it’s more basic wear and tear – some hard plastic heat shield that is crumbling apart, yet another radiator leak somewhere I can’t find, yet another door lock problem. Ballpark number for these is $1100.
I look at it this way – even with these repairs, it would cost me considerably more to buy another car I like as much. My needs are changing due to 2 new kids, so that may necessitate getting a larger car (5 wagon, G8 GT, Legacy GT wagon), but I’m holding off as long as possible for that. If it’s the 5 wagon I go for, I’m thinking 530xi for cost and complexity concerns over the newer, faster 535xi.
A bit of a left-field choice, but how about a Saab?
No.
Seriously, no. Maybe a 9-5, which is reasonably solid if a bit dated, but the new 9-3 is an evil glitchfest from a manufacturer that may not be long for this world.
Unless you can be absolutely certain of the car, steer clear.
Wow, quite a response to this thread! All interesting comments.
I just went through a similar decision process. Sold my 323i with 134k miles on the clock and bought a ’07 Fusion 4 banger with a 5 speed manual for a pittance. I know, I know. BOOOORRIIIING. But I had several reasons for dumping the bimmer and I’m (so far) glad I did. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the 323 and it gave me over 6 years of its life with minimal headaches for most of that time. But, I use this car for work and the 323 was starting to show its age. On the way to visit a customer not long ago, a radiator hose blew and stranded me. A couple of weeks later the right rear brake caliper froze and scorched the pads. I fixed both of those myself, but when the airbag light came on a few months back I knew I wasn’t going there. Could be $10 for a connector, could be a $1000 for who knows what.
The second reason was that I’m also the chief mechanic for my wife’s Passat and daughter’s Jeep and my two motorcycles. Keeping five vehicles on the road simultaneously was a bit taxing, shall we say.
So, I’m happy to be in a generic car and on my way to becoming a car non-enthusiast. I may long for the bimmer when I hit a stretch of twisty road, but hopefully, I’ll be on the Ducati when that happens…
I have a 325it, and at this point (136k miles) it’s just a matter of time before I’d have to put money into it too. But, I’ve already done some shopping and I’d really have to spend north of 30k to find something even remotely comparable. My car is still solid as a vault, runs great, gets good mileage (23-24 mostly city) and still gets it’s fair share of complements. I’ve looked at the Golf as well, and while I like it, it’s just a step down. I’d still rather sink 3-5k into my ride to get a few more years out of it rather than 30k for another car. Maybe you can find a newer model 5 series used if you decide to go that way?
Tips for Long Term BMW happiness. (5 year old 3 series, 190k miles)
Go to the Car show. See how many new cars still stack up to your “old car”. See how many of them are under 60k US. Not many, huh ? Last car show I wanted a GT-R, or a Cayman, neither of which is like my 03 330i. I like the 335i, despite run flats and a horrible interior, but would not be getting anything more than I have, save 80 hp, which I don’t need.
Find a reliable local BMW guy. You cannot go to the dealer every time. No one could afford it. BMWs are simple to fix but expensive for parts. Those parts last 200k, except Control Arm Bushings. That is why they are expensive.
A BMW is like an airplane. There are many 30-40 year old planes out there. Expect to replace Control Arm Bushings. Belts, hoses, tires shox and brakes. The difference is you are putting these parts into a solid car, not a rusting s…box. The only time bomb in most BMW’s are slushboxes-so don’t buy one.
Go to a good website…there are many of them for your car. Every problem will be dissected in detail, along with costs and fixes.
Selling this to buy a SAAB is insane (I had SAABS, and the crap you get at 90,000 plus is crazy-my BMW is a rock by comparison).
I’m on my second set of Control Arm Bushings, third or fourth set of brakes, third drive belt, have replaced the spark plugs twice, changed the trans oil twice, and just replaced the coolant, thermostat and hoses. This is all wear and tear. I’m on my second set of shocks. I’m looking at Control Arms, as the ball joints are worn out. Yes, it is a 1k bill at my independent, but they will go another 180k.
Running a BMW is not cheap, but is worth it. Consider the accident if you had a 40 mph front offset collision on a two lane road. I’d rather be in the old 5 wagon, not a Mazda, VW or SAAB. You are driving a tank and none of your other “choices” will have the vault-like carved from one billet steel feel of the BMW, nor will they take as hard a hit when the cell phone user veers into your lane.
It’s amazing that most posters here replied before reading the question.
This guy is in Canada, and will pay $25k Canadian dollars.
So, your suggestions of Outback ($40k) or Legacy GT ($35k) or SRX ($50k) are totally off the mark. I might as well suggest a Porsche Cayenne…
For $25k, the more realistic choices are:
1) Honda Fit (20k)
2) Subaru Impreza (base, steel wheels, 25k)
The prices listed are sticker. And no, there is no discount on Fit or Impreza what so ever here. Yes, I know the price is insane. I have friends who paid $66k for MDX and $24k for Civic (not SI).
# speedlaw :
April 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Tips for Long Term BMW happiness. (5 year old 3 series, 190k miles)
Go to the Car show. See how many new cars still stack up to your “old car”. See how many of them are under 60k US. Not many, huh ? Last car show I wanted a GT-R, or a Cayman, neither of which is like my 03 330i. I like the 335i, despite run flats and a horrible interior. Not enough to buy one.
Find a reliable local BMW guy. You cannot go to the dealer every time. No one could afford it. BMWs are simple to fix but expensive for parts. Those parts last 200k, except Control Arm Bushings. That is why they are expensive.
A BMW is like an airplane. There are many 30-40 year old planes out there. Expect to replace Control Arm Bushings. Belts, hoses, tires shox and brakes. The difference is you are putting these parts into a solid car, not a rusting s…box.
Go to a good website…there are many of them for your car. Every problem will be dissected in detail, along with costs and fixes.
Selling this to buy a SAAB is insane (I had SAABS, and the crap you get at 90,000 plus is crazy-my BMW is a rock by comparison).
I suggest you look at the service records. If you are going to the Dealer, stop. Find a good local guy. Read up the enthusiast websites.
Running a BMW is not cheap, but is worth it. Consider the accident if you had a 40 mph front offset collision on a two lane road. I’d rather be in the old 5 wagon, not a Mazda, VW or SAAB.
—————————————–
Let me summarize it:
buy a Lexus
Let me summarize it: buy a Lexus
I have to second that. You give up a little dynamic ability with a older-generation GS or a little panache with the prior IS, but you gain a whole lot of benefit from Toyota’s total-cost-to-own.
I’m going to reiterate the IS300 Sportcross recommendation above. If you can get past the automatic transmission, you get what is, effectively, a more raw 3-Series that’s cheaper to maintain, or a four-door Supra. The current IS rather depressing by comparison.
on your bimmer, when changing out the crappy plastic cooling bits, include the expansion tank. Myself,I stick to the Dodge Dart of BMWs, the E28. I am doing rust repairs on an 88 528e that has 350k miles on the original drive train. I can buy parts cheaply that out last the originals.
Perhaps a used Acura RDX?
This is a favorite among CUV’ers wanting Go Cart-like handling.
However, if your area’s roads are bad, make sure you can live with the stiff ride!
zdriver:
Matt wants to actually drive the damn car, not sit on it. I cant STAND.. CUVS. *Insane HATRED FOR SUVS / CUVS*
As for as the Magnum goes.. shame it got canned by being surrounded by SUVS / CUVS.
I would like to know.. why he doesnt like the current / 2010 Mazda 3 hatch…
SUpaman:
The 6 / Altenza still has a hatch and or a wagon.. just not for the US.
Wow…….I can’t believe how timely this posting is for me.
Matt….I am going through the same exact thought process as you (not maintenance related though…my car is low enough mileage where it has been great).
I have a 2002 525it……5 speed manual, only 49k miles, with a BMW factory remanufactured engine (5k miles ago). No fault of the car, it was a dealer error that was replaced under CPO warranty.
Being a loooong time BMW fanboy it is hard for me to consider giving up my e39 wagon. But I am having some knee problems and a manual transmission is causing me day to day discomfort, and I have my 1992 Porsche 968 to blow the cobwebs out on the weekends or one day a week to work.
I have considered many of the same cars discussed on this thread……still not sure what to do.
Maybe you just need a manual transmission e39 wagon with 49k miles and a new engine……let me know if your interested :-).
Good luck in your decision process…..I’ll be watching this thread closely.
Jim
Anyone owning an older BMW should…
sub in ‘…find a place to leave it where it will get stolen’
To summarize what’s already been said…and giving your willingness to do some of the maintenance.
1. Keep the car…it was a good looking car when new, and has aged incredibly well.
2. Get a Bentley manual and drop by one of the enthusiast boards from time to time (I like Roadfly personally, but find one you’re comfortable with) to keep up with the DIY posts.
3. Get a Peake code reader
4. Maintain and DIY it when you can,
5. Find a good indy mechanic for when you can’t or won’t.
Seriously, quite a few of the e-39 and e-46 trouble points are well documented and are easy DIY repairs. These include camshaft position sensors, cooling system components (preventatively), final stage resistors in the HVAC system, window regulators, etc. The major components, when maintained, are nearly bulletproof. The cars are fun to drive, and very efficient for their size/performance.
If you dont want to be more involved in it and maintain it yourself, lose it and go get a Passat.
That may sound funny, thinking of VW well deserved reputation, but scroll down to wherever they cost 25k in Canada and the wagon is probably gonna be under warranty and its a really good car if not trashed. 1.8t or 2.0t depending on year/prices there. No v6. No All motion.
I don’t see “status” on your list of criteria, so I will suggest a Kia Rondo. Seriously. It’s kind of dorky, but it is really spacious, feels well-built, and is a blazing bargain.
Umm…
The guy is coming from a BMW 5 series wagon.. from about 6yrs ago..
Hes not happy with a compact Mazda3.. even with the Speed version…
And you suggest a KIA RONDO?!
I wouldnt take one.. if I had a choice between a Rondo and a 25yr old Civic WAGON!
If you have no smoke, no knocks, no rust-outs, no transmission troubles, and it’s less than 10 years old; it’s a keeper.
Re Kia Rondo…
‘kind of dorky…balzing bargain’
Does not compute. Syntax Error. Beyond my level of sarcasm comprehension….
My recommendations:
Saab 9-5 Aero, As a former BMW owner, and current Saab owner(one of my 4 vehicles)the Aero versions bring a smile to my face everytime I drive it. The wagon version drives better than the sedans, the 2.3 HOT turbo is both powerful and fuel efficient, there is lots of interior room and the front seats are orthopaedically designed. Driver ergonomics are first rate. Since Saab’s sell much better in Canada than the USA, every major Canadian city has a number of independent Saab specialists and there is a huge Saab parts aftermarket. Right now these cars are going for great deals at Saab dealerships. Unlike the US warranty (which is now backed by Saab Sweden), Saab warranties in Canada are backed by GM Canada (and gauranteed for their life by our consumer protection laws unlike the US). Saab’s are much more satisfying than driving a Volvo. I once owned a Volvo 850.
Also check out the Mercedes B200 turbo. I don’t think these vehicles are sold in the USA. In addition to lots of interior room, lots of standard equipment, excellent fuel economy the turbo vesions have brisk pick-up and nicely put together interior. In the last couple of years, I’ve been seeing a lot of these on the road.
Infiniti EX35, You may lose some headroom in the back due to the roof design, but this car is essentially the wagon version of the G35, need I say more?
Seems many contributors have given the same advice as I will give; stick with your wagon, just about everything else will be a disappointment. I understand very well that high repair costs can alienate you from a car, and of course you may just run into a streak of bad luck where the engine blows or the transmission goes gaga. For what it’s worth, we have a 98 5-series in our family that has 250 000 kms on the clock. It has been maintained by the book by BMW pros, and it is still a great car. The slushbox (5-sp Steptronic) shifts with the smoothness/authority of a new car, and the engine is still the gem it was 10 – 11 years ago, and all systems are working perfectly. Repairs beyond usual maintenance like oil, filters, pads: both front shocks, bushings in the rear suspension, and that is just about it. It has no visible rust anywhere, in spite of spending winters in salt slush. It is actually so well built that our 2005 E60 has a hard time keeping up with our E39.
And; the only serious downside to these cars (apart from possible expensive repairs) is that you’ll never be happy with anything less!
The 5series wagon.. is a damn good looking vehicle. The sedan version is also sweet. It has georgous lines, those fantastic deep dish wheels. Its the RIGHT size for a sedan, and with the wagon (Im sure the older ones had an extra bench back there).. it makes all 5-7 pass SUVS pointless.
This…
This is the ONE vehicle.. that I covet along with the 3series wagon.. that removes a person totally from douschebaggery.
And to trade it for a Magnum… would be pointless. The Magnum will be forgotten after the rap crowd gives them up.
As for as the *cough RONDO cough* I totally agree. I’d bet the wagon gets thrashed.. and the Rondo would lose a paint chip going into a corner at about 80.
Forget about status (wagons arent status), this is a DRIVER.
I would like to know.. why he doesnt like the MS3…
Hmm… 5 Series Wagon.. TOURING M5. oOOH BABY!
I agree with those saying you should stick it out. There ain’t really a replacement for BMW wagons or the 5-series in general.
The 3-series has lots of competition, but the 5- and 7-series are still alone in the big-car-drives-real-small category. Quite a few cars match them in the numbers game, but on driving feel there isn’t another car like ’em.
I own a 2006 Mazda3 s hatch, it’s a great car but I don’t think it’s a suitable replacement to a BMW. I don’t know anything about BMW reliability except for what I hear from other people but I’m sure I’ll manage if I had one, but to think Golf? or any compact after 5 series? the same way you did not like the Mazda3 you will not like any lesser car than the BMW
Sold the touring and replaced it with an ’08 Impreza 5dr Sport 5MT with 29k kms on it. I managed to sell the BMW for a fair price, and the deal on the Impreza was too good to pass up.