The oil in the Honda Insight’s engine was overfilled by nearly half the length of the dipstick by the new car dealer. I was 40 miles away from there with a well deserved vacation on the horizon. So, I did what anyone in my neck of the woods would do and fixed the problem myself. Except the problem didn’t get fixed. It got worse. Boy, did it get worse.
I have a manual evacuator that’s used to handle these excesses which are not uncommon these days. Ninety bucks and a minute with a handpump are usually enough to get out whatever is needed. Plus I don’t have to tear anything apart or clean up any oil residue. I just pump n go. No tools required. It does absolute wonders for a variety of fluid changes and helps in those rare times when travel and time (or a special deal) make the labor of an oil change less than $5.00 an hour. Two minutes of pumping, a little self-auditing, and I’m done. Simple.
I put an extension to the usual tube since the dipstick hole for this car was almost pea sized. It fit perfectly. Pump . . . pump . . . nothing. Not even a drop. After a dozen more pumps I decide to turn the engine on to get some well needed suction. It works. Oil comes out, and I can literally hear the car getting better with each successive second.
Then the devil came to Georgia in the form of suction. I lifted the larger hose connected to the smaller hose in order to get it out and then magically, the little hose turned to a snake. It disconnected itself from the hose fitting and slithered its way into the car. Where it made its home in the chain tensioner. Damage? Probably not. But to remove the timing chain cover, you have to remove the engine from the car. It’ll be a complete bitch.
I love this car, and when I get the free time I’ll get a chance to love it even more. Whose fault is it? Mine. We all learn from our mistakes. This will be 20 hours worth—which will hopefully last a lifetime.
Ouch.
I have a Mercedes C43 AMG, which uses the corporate 4.3 V8 engine but has two oil pumps (or something like that). Anyway, the second oil pump takes up a little extra room, thus reducing the total amount of oil the engine holds by 0.5 quarts. Two different times I’ve had to go back to the oil change place to have 0.5 quarts of oil removed from my engine.
I’m a big fan of oil drain plugs :). One tip for a vehicle which is just slightly overfilled: Change the oil filter. Depending on the filter size they hold between 1/4 (modern Honda filter) to a full quart (classic Ford FL1A filter).
I had a similar experience whilst cleaning the throttle body of a 1989 Camry.
Over one winter, when I’d start the car in the morning, I’d have to push the gas pedal waaay down to get initial acceleration. After perusing websites, I discovered that this was likely due to the throttle body being full of gunk. A $5 fix, which was wonderful news to my right-out-of-college ears.
So I picked up a can of throttle body cleaner at NAPA, was using the little plastic spray hose and precisely squirting cleaner on the throttle plate. Had my dad go in the car, and push down the gas pedal so I could clean the opposite side of the plate. All was fine until the plastic spray hose shot off into the throttle body assembly! Both my dad and I freaked out. Called our mechanic, told us to tow the car in. 3 hours and $600 later, he found the tube in the intake manifold pipe to cylinder 1. Ouch.
The mechanic gave me the tube. I taped it to a piece of paper, wrote EPIC FAIL on it, frame the paper, and hung it on my wall.
John Horner, that was my thought as well. If you have too much oil in your car…why not just drain some? Surely that is a more obvious solution than getting out excavation equipment.
afabbro
Steve forgot to mention that the car involved is/was a Honda Insight hybrid. (Text amended.) Different rules.
A manual “evacuator”? At first i thought you were digging a pit to get undeneath the car easier, which probably would have been more fun. When this happened to me with a new car I unscrewed the oil plug and then quickly…kind of…damn, oil hotter than i thought…screwed it back in. Then I had to top the oil up. Good luck.
I saw one of these devices in the parts store so I bought it and tried on one of my bikes. It wasn’t able to get down far enough to vacuum it all out but good enough.
Steve forgot to mention that the car involved is/was a Honda Insight hybrid. (Text amended.) Different rules.
Interesting. I’m curious, what makes the rules different regarding the ICE in an Insight, and is it common with other Hybrids?
You have just caused me to add Rule #615 to JPC Rules of Life: Never own a car without an oil drain plug.
Reminds me of an experience of mine from a couple of weeks ago. I went to add a quart to my 96 Odyssey. I recently bought a handy little spout that screws onto the end of those 5 qt jugs of oil. This spout has a valve so that you can position it over the fill hole, then turn the valve and fill without spilling. Thought it was taking awhile, but yup, only 1 quart when I set the jug back on the ground. Then I noticed that the jug’s sides were sucked in. I open the valve to let the air out, and then i see that I actually poured 2 quarts in. Damn. Lessons: 1) You don’t always save money with the 5 quart jug; 2) See Rule No. 615, above.
“But to remove the timing chain cover, you have to remove the engine from the car.”
Wow, I wonder who thought of that great idea?
I did the same thing once with a carburetor bolt on my old Fiat. (That should give you an idea of how long ago this took place.) Luckily, I was able to find it with a ‘grabber’, i.e. a magnet on a malleable metal shaft. I had to stick it in every branch of the intake manifold, and of course, it was in #4 cylinder, or the last place you looked.
I’ve got to believe that a piece of plastic isn’t going to do that much harm to the internals of the motor, assuming of course, that it’s small and pliable. I would imagine it would just be stuck floating around the oil pan until such time as you could retrieve it.
Ugh I think we all have those kind of horror stories, easy do-it-yourself job turns into an expensive oops. I was replacing my air filter once, which is bolted directly to the MAF, which happens to look like a fairly sturdy piece of plastic. One of those bolts was stuck pretty good, and I found out the hard way, cranking the bolt, that the plastic was actually not that sturdy. Cracked the whole MAF. $120 to replace. Sweet.
@geozinger – You’re right in that a small piece of plastic probably won’t cause a problem inside the engine. But just as you get lulled into a false sense of security by such logic, the damn thing will get sucked up by the oil pump and lodged into a oil galley (passage), where it then proceeds to starve a bearing of oil and wrecks the engine. That’s Murphy for ya.
I was at Walmart once when the service guy over torqued the drain plug and damaged the drain plug washer causing it to drip. Took it back and they hooked up the wet/dry vac to the oil filler inlet and ran on the vacuum setting, replacing the gasket and never lost a drop of oil. I did this on my own once when I forgot to put the washer on the drain plug. My wife held the vacuum hose and I replaced the plug and the washer. Not one drop of oil was wasted. Just saying.
Surprising to me as well, but after talking to some friends it seems that lack of a drain plug is becoming more and more common. Mini and Mercedes were mentioned in the discussion as having models without drain plugs. Also heard about a model that requires the car to be hooked up to a dealer computer to determine the exact oil level. It’s the wave of the future, no DIY maintenance.
@mikedt,
The oil pickup in the sump is screened. it wouldn’t be able to suck up something like a plastic hose. I wouldn’t worry about this all that much.
My do-it(to)-yourself story is trying to put an aftermarket radio into a late 80’s Toyota Tercel, which was a year old at the time. Easy job, is it not?
Except that up inside the dash the slide lever for the heater temperature control was in my way.
From my position on my back on the floor of the car, it was easier to reach up inside the dash above my head and simply move the plastic lever that stuck out of the heater core with my hand. The first time it moved OK, but for some reason I decided to put it back in the position I’d found it – and the !@%$!% thing broke off in my hand.
You couldn’t replace just the lever… nope. Toyota only sold the entire heater core with that little plastic lever attached. About $350 1980 dollars if I remember – plus the labor to rip the old heater core out and replace it.
I ended up having a replacement lever custom machined at a machine shop for about $75 but it took me a week of ANGRY WIFE to think of that solution……
Sigh.
Oh yes, the simple DIY job that turns into something big due to incompetence. It has happened to me as well.
I once changed the fuel filter on my Golf 2 GTI. Quick and easy. It is a big can on underneath the car. Jack up the car, slide in there, undo a few screws to gain access. Undo the hoses on both ends, put the new one in and tighten everything. Except that I managed to twist the brass pipe on one side. The VW dealer asked for an arm and a leg for a simple piece of pipe. So I had one made up. The first one that fit, which meant a trip back to the hydraulics shop. I got it right in the end but it took two days to finish what should have taken 15 minutes.
On another occasion a rear brake pad replacement on my E46 BMW turned nasty. The bracket holding the brake pipe in position is quite flimsy. I bent it but did not notice. The very next day I had to brake hard. The brake pipe touched the half shaft and the car started leaking brake fluid. I noticed immediately because the pedal went soft. What did I do? I stopped at a service station, bought a bottle of brake fluid and filled up. Thanks to the marvel of dual circuit brake systems, I made it home. Barely.
No dipsticks either.
And BMW ran into trouble when owners relying on the warning light poured as much as 9 litres in before realising that something MUST be wrong. Light malfunction.
We adopt the old approach: pull the tech sheets, measure out the exact amount specified and pour.
The Smart(?) cars don’t have drain plugs either. $180 oil change.
The only time sucking makes sense, at least on engines, is power boats where lying in the bilges is no fun whatsoever.
When I was 16, I pulled the distributer from my 273 Dodge Dart to install a dual point. A 4-40 X 1/4 screw fell down the hole.
Yep…pull the engine.
Miatas have been known to eat those oil extraction gizmo tubes, with engine off, they go in get soft and break on the way out. Necessitating oil pan removal which does include engine removal.
Not mine, I use it on Miata and Audi with no issues.
Would not have occurred to do it with car running though.
Was there much shouting? Did you tip over the scotch on the rocks?
Heh heh, you guys and your modern appliances. Stories like these strengthen my resolve to keep my 528es running forever.
The replier who stated that neither a Mini Cooper or a smart fortwo are configured for DIY oil/filter changes is incorrect. Both have drain plugs and the necessary parts/fluids are readily available for a pittance of what the greedy s.o.b. dealers charge.
Uhh, I don’t understand what possesses anyone to work on an engine while it is running. I go so far as to disconnect the battery whenever I turn a screw under the hood. It’s cheap insurance.
The weirdest story along these lines I’ve heard was a Nissan fan who managed to run a handful of washers through his FJ20 motor. They were being used to space part of the intake and got sucked into the motor. How did he fix it? He put a snake camera through his spark plug hole and observed there was no damage to the pistons or bores. He plucked out whatever he could with a magnet, but there were still some intact washers… So he started the motor again, chewed up the remaining washers, and removed the pieces with a magnet until nothing was left in the cylinders. The damn thing ran fine afterwards, with no adverse effects. I don’t recommend anyone else try this method.
Oil extraction pump. I recently got one and it is a time and money saver, $40 delivered.
Am I slow or something? Why wasn’t the drain plug used? Farago says the Insight has different rules…why?
The Gen1 Insight certainly has an oil drain plug. I know this because I had the wrong setting on my wrench and torqued the shit out of my plug, stripping out a VERY expensive magnesium (!) oil pan on my 2000 Insight.
So…the Insight has a plug (at least the first gen does), and this car was overfilled. What information am I missing here that’s preventing my brain from grasping the whole oil sucker disaster scenario?
You do tend to remember these types of things forever. My first car, a $300 ’72 510, ate huge amounts of oil, something known to be hardened valve seals. Pulling the head (cheap and easy student fix) turned into pulling and overhauling the whole engine (expensive and difficult) when the camchain tensioner popped off and fell into the bottom innards of the engine.
On the fortwo, both gentlemen are right. The pre08 diesels sold in Canada were Mercedes engines without a drain plug. 08+ gas engines sold in all NA were Mitsubishi’s with drain plugs.
Own a ML320 (just bought it) and checked out the oil change. It has a drain plug behind two cross members (to be removed) and a sound/insulation plate (to be removed) I wonder how much those oil removal pumps are downunder and do they suck up the sludge? should be cheaper than the local Mercedes Benz dealer.
I was curious about what’s so different about hybrid oil changes, googled, and found this article.
Short summary is that you can certainly do your own oil changes, but you have to take off some underbody aero shields which apparently feature breakable clips.
I used a cheap oil extractor once. The exit hose from the pump popped off under pressure, sending a black spray across my pant leg and up the garage wall. It was spectacular. Then the pickup hose jammed in the crankcase, filling me with nightmarish visions of tearing down the engine on my brand new car. Luckily I wiggled it out without incident.
Turns out that lying on your back and turning a ratchet isn’t so bad after all.
Try a new one.
Wow, I couldn’t believe you guys that gave the examples of the Mercedes without drain plugs. I thought you just didn’t look hard enough, or it was some sort of weird German design. So I looked up the service info for an ’08 C350 4 Matic, and you are right. No drain plug. I can’t believe it.
I don’t know what year Insight the above mentioned one is, but all the ones I have seen, plus Civics Priuses an others had drain plugs. I randomly looked up an ’03 Insight, and it has a drain plug.
Also, anyone who thinks doing your own oil changes isn’t worth it hasn’t seen the screw ups that have happened that I have. The quick lubes have destroyed drain plugs, and RTVed them in place many times. If the filter is hard to get at they don’t change them. Dealers also have issues, although usually the better of the two options. We had a guy working for us who left out the drain plug once. There was a trail of oil leading right to his stall after the customer came back with his engine rattling. He also forgot to put oil in cars several times. My favorite thing he did was after he got transferred to a Mazda dealership. He was doing an oil change on a new RX-8, and forgot to put oil in it. The engine self destructed by the time he got out of the shop. The thing we couldn’t understand is why he was doing an oil change on this car to begin with. It was a brand new RX-8, with 8 miles on the odometer. There are so many things that idiots can screw up. A lube tech isn’t a certified mechanic, especially at Uncle Jiffy’s. Dealerships, it depends on the brand and dealership. Some like our VW dealership actually had the mechanics change the oil, but this is more rare. Most have a lube guy who is not a mechanic.
I can understand the necessity of using an extraction pump to change oil if the engine has no drain plug (which, by the way, I think is a supremely idiotic design if ever there was one-who the hell designs these things?). But I can’t understand why anyone would use an extraction outfit to change oil if the engine has a drain plug. On most cars, you have to crawl underneath to change the filter anyway, so why not just use the drain plug while you’re down there?
The things MBella cited above about quick lube places-and to a lesser extent dealerships-are truly frightening and precisely the reason why I’ve done every oil change on every car I’ve ever owned myself. I don’t trust the quick lube places. It takes me longer to do it myself, and it is a PITA sometimes, but the peace of mind is well worth it.
Now, you understand, why we no longer have a fixed price for oil changes. First, professional technicians do the work (yes, it’s THAT important), secondly the price of lubricating oil keeps rising and thirdly it takes up to half an hour to even GET to the drain plug. I’d say the average price for a job well done these days runs about C$55.
My 1958 Plymouth 318 engine, if the oil filter gasket wasn’t seated quite right, could pump its entire crankcase full of oil onto the garage floor in about thirty seconds.
On a slightly different tack, one of my father’s trucks starting running out of gas on the road for no apparent reason. Gas in the tank, no symptoms, then it would start and run fine until the next random occurence. It turned out that some SOB gas thief had put a piece of butter paper in the gas tank. This would float down at random intervals and paste itself to the output line. Then with the lack of suction when the motor was off it would drift away.
The oil was overfilled by the dealership. I tried getting the oil out with the engine turned off but there wasn’t enough pressure in the pump system to lift the oil up. Therefore I turned the engine on and tried to remove the excess that way.
It turns out that the hose was wrapped around the timing chain. Three hours of careful pushing and prodding, and she’s as good as new.