Even if I were a billionaire, I would still buy the store brands at the local supermarket. Names really mean nothing to me and the better deals always seem to be with the unproven or unpopular brands on the bottom shelves. Especially if they come with the right coupon as an incentive. When it comes to cars, I generally have the same attitude. Yes, there are brands that I personally disfavor on the low side (Daewoo-based Suzukis) and on the high side (BMW) as ‘keeper’ cars. But in between I’ve found a lot of great cars that simply carry the wrong name on their hood. And the loser – winners are . . .
Entry-level car: 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer
There was a time in the early 2000s where nearly every Mitsubishi model was the ‘value’ model, thanks to corporate suicide. The company had effectively shot themselves in their financial foot by offering $0 down, 0% interest vehicles until the very next year rolled forward. The results? The brand died an ugly death made of thousands of ratted-out repos. Just like today’s sub-prime housing market!
Anyhow, I really like the more athletic and techno-centric nature of the current Lancer. It’s far more sporty than anything short of an SX4 and its level of features would make a Yaris blush with envy. A 650-watt stereo, satellite radio, moonroof, hard drive-based navigation with a 30GB storage drive for playing/saving digital music, Bluetooth phone integration, and a keyless entry and starting system. The Lancer rides like it’s on rails, looks nice, and has the pleasure of being amongst the unfashionable brands these days. A one year old GTS model with all the options and 30k recently went on eBay for $12,900.
Mid-sized car: 2008 Mazda 6i
Red rover, red rover, let rental cars come over. Unlike the Malibus, Imaplas, and others of the general bland, the Ford versions are actually pretty interesting to drive. Well, not really. In fact, forget I ever said that. I originally was going to give this award to the auction staples that are the Fusion and Milan. But after careful consideration and long model runs, I think the even longer in the tooth Mazda 6 is the truly better deal. Name your adjective and read the 200+ reviews on the web. They all mirror the fact that the 6 is a lot more fun than most. Thanks to the recent model changeover, 6s are cheap. This 2008 with less than 20k miles on the clock sold for just $10,995. Of course you’ll have to drive to Cleveland to get this model, but maybe this video will cheer you up.
Minivan: Last-Gen Chrysler Minivan
There is no segment out there where the ‘premiere’ models get a bigger price premium than the minivan segment. There’s something about conservativeness, fear, and ‘must have’ reliability that makes Honda Odysseys and Toyota Siennas sell for insane markups on the near-new side. The flip side? Vehicles that can offer 90% of their utility and comfort typically go for 50% of the market leader’s price. Very few folks are into racing minivans. So if I were to buy a cheap late model for schlepping kinfolk and stuff, this segment would be it.
My top pick here is a Chrysler minivan. Preferably with highway miles (low stress and bigger depreciation hit), no stow ’n‘ go (second seats are more comfortable in regular mode), and no power sliding doors or electric doo-dads. You also have a powertrain combination that has literally been made in the millions. That means cheap parts and a surprisingly decent reliability record for the late models. This one on eBay sold for $4,500. We literally get tons of these vehicles at the auctions that are used by corporate and fleet lease firms. The outoging Hyundai Entourage may also be worth it if you want something a bit more fancy without the ‘right brand’ mark-up.
More?
Renting a Ford Flex at the moment. Excellent vehicle for transporting six people 800 miles in a day. Hoping they’ll be cheap on the secondary market. The styling should help.
My citeria for buying a car:
1. Choose a model that takes a 50% hit the minute it leaves the dealer.
2. Buy it a year old (usually an ex rental car)
3. Drive it forever and throw it away when it dies like a used BIC.
You will never get a lower total cost/mile than this.
@ commando 1…. I agree 100% with your comment. The trick is knowing when to throw it away
Even if I were a billionaire, I would still buy the store brands at the local supermarket.
Sometimes, but if you want albacore tuna, sometime you’re better off without the store brand, especially if you like quality chunks…
I would have chose the 06-08 Fusion and 08 style new body Malibu over the more cramped and pricier Mazda 6 but to each his own. The Fusion especially is a great deal because it’s on the same chassis as the 6 but has a larger more comfortable interior, can be serviced right at your Ford dealer and many come certified with longer warranty coverage. They have been given a good reliability rating too and prices are reasonable since the new refreshed model has been out. That and only Ford offers SYNC which is a great feature.
The Caravan and TC are both good choices as long as you avoid all the fancy do-dads. Both the 3.3 and 3.8 OHV V6’s are durable and Chrysler has sorted the old 4 speed automatic out to be pretty good these days. The Kia Sedona is nice too for less coin and it’s 3.8 liter V6 offers a lot of kick for a van.
“@ commando 1…. I agree 100% with your comment. The trick is knowing when to throw it away”
My rule of thumb is when it no longer goes into reverse – LOL!
The “knowing when to throw it away” part is fairly simple. Major engine failure or major transmission failure. Invest nothing in overhauls of these two components. Only in replacement with a used engine/trans.
2. Buy it a year old (usually an ex rental car)
I would never even consider an ex rental car. ANY ex rental car. At least I wouldn’t want to own any car I’ve ever rented.
I admire you guys who can do this. I’m unable to do it because of a few personal problems for which I’m currently in therapy:
1. An emotional attachment to my cars. I loves my babies and they don’t have to be fast, or even handle well, but they gots to be willin’.
This keeps me out of Toyotas and Mercedes – they can methodically do the dance but they have no souls. It mades me shudder at the thought of lobotomized Chevys. It drove me away from Acura when my 4th Integra ( a 97) bored me. If I love them I want to keep my cars for ever. If I hate them they’re gone after 10 months.
You guys remind me of the guy who puts everything in his garage in boxes,sealed, labeled and dated. Then if he finds he hasn’t opened the box in a year, he throws it away unopened. Drive it forever and throw it away when it dies like a used BIC. I just can’t get that detached from my rides.
2. I have a vivid imagination and a good memory of slights past…even if they didn’t happen to me. You guys are more trusting of company’s ability to change. Unfortunately, I have a clear memory of the first Mitsubishi I ever saw, back in the early 80’s – belonged to a friend. It was only a year or so old, and as she drove away, there was a quick puff of blue smoke from the exhaust. Sure…. the new Mitsubishi’s are better… But I know a couple of people who had Mitsubishi Eclipses….
If the ‘talk-therapy’ doesn’t help, maybe there’s a medication I can take.
Steven,
How do you feel about luxury cars? I find newer Volvos to be a great deal in the near lux/lux market. I would also think that the Fusion might be a better buy than the Mazda 6, but I prefer the Mazda styling.
+1 on the Chrysler minivans. I own a last-gen Voyager which I picked up for peanuts some years ago. The van has been surprisingly solid. Of course I have the base model without power sliders, rear air, etc.
Mitsubishi dealers are really trying to move cars; my local paper’s auto section is full of Mitsubishi dealer ads despite their very small presence in my area.
Another not-generally-thought-of deal is the current generation Suzuki Grand Vitara (NOT XL-7). Unlike the previous generation the current generation looks good, has an independent rear suspension with primarily RWD, and for under $20K new (not MSRP, but dealers list it for that on autotrader, etc.) it can be had with a 5 speed manual, a 170 HP I4, RWD, power locks and windows and 6-airbags. That’s a new RWD manual transmission (high) wagon for under $20K.
The price premium for the Odyssey/Sienna over the Caravan is because the difference between those two vehicles is like the difference between watching the demo derby at the county fair vs. going to the opera downtown.
On one side you have a clunky vehicle that has been shade tree tuned for 25 years into something that is decent, but not great. On the other side you have a piece of engineering, refined down to minute details.
The Honda/Toyota models might not do the “job” any better than the Chrysler minivan, but they are far and away “better” vehicles any way you slice it. Now is that worth the $$$ premium? Guess that all depends on your personal financial situation.
What commando describes is an appliance-ownership model, which works for a lot of people and with total emotional detachment can ratchet the TCO way down.
I doesn’t work for lokki or me, however, and I’d guess a lot of others who either spend too much time in their cars to not care what they drive, feel passionate about styling or engineering, get in to performance, etc. I want to like what I drive. I actually like doing my own wrenching (it’s amazing how low your TCO gets when you tell the shop to skip your $800 “brake job” and replace pads and rotors yourself for $150 in parts).
And there is NO WAY I’d ever own an ex-rental, even if it were free.
Cadillac DTSs can be had on the cheap if you’re looking for a luxobarge with a smooth ride and lots of room. A 2 year old model can be had for around $20,000, when MSRP on these things is usually $45,000+. For added pleasure, throw some 20″s on it and you’ll look like a pimp.
Commando,
1. Choose a model that takes a 50% hit the minute it leaves the dealer.
What car would that be? Or do you mean 50% off the inflated sticker that no one in history every paid?
The new Lancers are a blast and a half… much better than the crud they put out previously… but thanks to the “old” Mitsubishi, “new” Mitsubishi is having a hard time moving them.
Better for the rest of us, I suppose.
–
I loved the previous generation 6. Wonderful little car… rorty, sporty and ready-to-go. I’ll take mine with a V6 and a stick, please.
Won’t buy a Chrysler van with Sto-n-go? That’s one of the best features. The second row seats are actually more comfortable than they look. The key is to raise the headrests. If you push the seat back, there is more legroom in the 2nd row than 90% of the vehicles out there. Heck you can even dangle your feet in the sto-n-go wells and pretend you are flying an F4U Corsair (which had a similar feature).
I agree on the Chrysler minivan.
I lemon-lawed an Odyssey due to the fancy electric sliding doors; I will never buy that feature again on any car. It was replaced with a Caravan that was 7 years older, cheap to buy and keep running, and without the arrogance of a Honda dealership standing behind it.
I also agree on the Stow-n-Go seats. That feature comes at the price of thinner, less-comfortable seats. Who really needs to haul big stuff regularly, and still needs the passenger seats? A little forethought for hauling saves you money on the Stow-n-Go and gets you more comfortable seating.
1. Choose a model that takes a 50% hit the minute it leaves the dealer.
Hum, just looked up both a Chrysler 300 and a Dodge Avenger and they both lose about 37% from Sticker – not that anyone pays sticker. So, where can I find these 50% off cars that just left the dealer?
Heres one:
We are buying 2008 Sonata Limited 4cylinders with mileage in the 30k range for $10,800 at the auction. Cheaper than we can get the Elantras!
09 Sonata
$3000 Cash to Customer start: 06/02/2009 end: 06/30/2009 Get Dealer Pricing
Restrictions Customers have the option to either have the full amount of the rebate taken off of the vehicle’s price at sale, or to have the rebate paid to them in 6 monthly payments in the form of a reloadable debit card ($500 a month for 6 months). Please see your dealer for details.
You could drive off the lot in a new Sonata for 14k.
I have to agree with the stow-and-go. My father had an ’06. It was good for hauling things, but so uncomfortable. Also, when ever you folded them, you were just waiting for something to break. The noises it made were unnerving.
In the small CUV segment, I’d nominate a Jeep Patriot.
In the semi-luxury barge category, I’ll go with a Buick Lucerne– a lot of car for the money slightly used
In the semi luxury segment the Acura RL and Infiniti M are true YSE contenders once they are 1-2 years old.
dwford: “We are buying 2008 Sonata Limited [Limited = leather and sunroof] 4cylinders with mileage in the 30k range for $10,800 at the auction.”
But are retail buyers benefiting?
jmo: “You could drive off the lot in a new Sonata for 14k [after $3,000 rebate].”
And if Congress passes that Clunker Cash bill by June 30, the price could be $9,500 plus clunker.
ToolingDesigner and RetardedSpark say they won’t consider buying a ex-rental cars. Is that because when they rent cars they drive like maniacs, or because they figure other people drive like meniacs when they’re in rentals?
I have driven in Atlanta traffic for the last decade and have been behind a LOT of vehicles. If it’s a smoker, it’s almost always a Chrysler POS minivan or a Mitsu. No thanks on either. I’d pay the extra premium for a used Odyssey. Hell, I’d take a 1st gen Odyssey with 80K miles on it before I’d take a BRAND NEW Chrysler minivan. Transmission problems abound as well.
I had a brand new Chrysler minivan the other day from National rental and I swear that thing was the cheapest feeling vehicle I’ve driven in quite some time. Just horrible. And don’t get me started on Mitsu – just follow the blue smoke.
I’ve seen plenty of rentals I’d drive myself at 20 to perhaps 25K miles, at the 35 to 40K miles they run them to now, NO WAY.
We bought a 2005 lancer es for my brother in law. Just for school. It was repo’d from a nurse and was cheap as everyone wants corollas and civics. It’s been dead reliable and doesn’t burn oil like our old 2000 corolla used to.
I sat in one of those Chrysler minivans in Mexico about 2-3 years ago… you forgot to mention it has a soft touch dashboard. Very soft.
The driver always chirped the tyres when starting which surprised me as it was a minivan.
I was surprised at how cool the electric doors are.
You should have included a full size sedan in your list.
Also a big/small SUV/CUV.
I agree 100% on the Chrysler minivans. My wife drives a 2005 T&C that we bought used last year, with 51k on the clock, for about half what the market was asking for similarly-equipped Siennas or Odysseys. It’s cheap to insure and maintain, has been reliable so far, and my wife loves the stow ‘n go seating. I even started to enjoy driving it after I dumped the horrid Bridgestone rim protectors that it came with for a set of Goodyear Assurance TripleTreds. The chassis on this minivan may not be the last word in sophistication, but it delivers surprisingly decent handling with a good set of tires mounted.
I also like the 2000-2006 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable, particularly the ones with the 24-valve V6. Ford sold so many of these into fleet service that they’re available quite cheaply in the used market. They’re cheap to insure and pretty reliable, and parts are inexpensive and easy to come by.
“The “knowing when to throw it away” part is fairly simple. Major engine failure or major transmission failure. Invest nothing in overhauls of these two components. Only in replacement with a used engine/trans.”
Seconded. I really got taken to the cleaners on a rebuilt transmission (of course, the price spiked from the initial estimate after they opened it up and found “additional bad parts”). In hindsight I would’ve been better off selling the car as is.
I have a Mazda6s (V6 model) with a stick, and I have loved it since the day I bought it. Whenever I have the msifortune of drivign another car, I am remided of how much fun my Mazda6 is. While I can not speak for the Mazda6i (4 cylinder), the Mazda6s is definitely not just an appliance.
niky :
June 15th, 2009 at 10:07 am
The new Lancers are a blast and a half… much better than the crud they put out previously… but thanks to the “old” Mitsubishi, “new” Mitsubishi is having a hard time moving them.
Better for the rest of us, I suppose.
–
I loved the previous generation 6. Wonderful little car… rorty, sporty and ready-to-go. I’ll take mine with a V6 and a stick, please.
+1 on the Mazda and the assesment of the old Lancers. The Lancer I test drove several years ago (2002, I believe) was absolutely hideous. A Corolla, by comparison, was nice. The Mazda is sporty, it looks nice (IMO), and it is plenty big on the inside to haul around four, 6′ tall passengers and their luggage (nice big trunk). I really don’t understand the too small comments. To me it looks taut or athletic compared to other midsize sedans, not small.
OK. Everybody’s jumping on the fact that I said “…takes a 50% hit…”
You’re waaaaay too analytical guys. Loosen up. OK, I should have said: “a very high depreciation-to-purchase price ratio.” Is that better?
But, I could have used the Aztec to back up my original statement – LOL.
I helped my daughter purchase a 2004 Suzuki Forenza a year ago, when her excellent Aerio was totalled through no fault of hers. Best value for the money on the market. I just bought a new 2008 for myself. Hers has the ZF designed automatic, mine has the stick, which I prefer. NICE interior, good options on the base model, superb TRANSFERABLE warranty. Suzuki has nice dealers. Engine is Holden (Australian). Good handling, the base tires aren’t all that great, but I find it more fun to drive than most domestic cars. Mileage is not as bad as the 20/28 stick, 22/28 auto EPA ratings. I get around 30 mpg (mostly highway) so far, which is what my daughter (more city driving) gets.
I am sold on Korean cars. Hyundai/Kia are excellent cars. GM overprices the Aveo too much, 5K too much, but that is not Daewoo’s fault. The Kia Soul now comes with standard stability control. I am NOT going to every buy a 20K or more expensive Japanese or domestic car again. I am through throwing my money away. European cars are crap, I have bought two, never again. ALL Suzuki’s have good seats, and good seating positions, better than Honda, much better than Toyota.
My car choices, in no particular order, new or used, are: Hyundai, Kia, Suzuki, and Daewoo. Well, with one exception. I see one of our good local dealers (Ray Skillman) was selling the base 2009 Focus for 10K. At THAT price, I will consider a domestic.
When I owned a 60 hp Shitvette, I got mad and traded it for a base VW Golf with air,1987, 85 hp. I thought that was all the hp I needed.
SO – I am never again going to throw away my money. The car companies are looking for ways to empty our pockets, there is no reason to let them do so.
Great article Steven. I look forward to every installment of Hammer Time.
From on economic standpoint, this is probably the best time ever to buy a car. However, its also the worst time to try to make a decision. So many choices, so cheap.
What do you predict for used car prices in the next 12-18 months? I figure that the passage of the Cash for Clunkers bill will depress used car prices somewhat as an extra $4500 off a new car will be enough to sway some buyers in the direction of new versus used. Also, we should see some more “orphan” cars on the used car market. A year old G8 GT should be in the low $20’s (and maybe a V6 model for around $15-$17k). Year old Vibes should be a good deal also (especially when you consider their Toyota underpinnings) and truck buyers should be able to pick up year old Dodge Rams on the cheap.
Steven,
I’d like to throw in the 2000 Chevy Metro into the mix. It might be an oldie, but its a goodie. My dad bought a Metro LSi Hatchback in 2005, as a daily comuter. Picked it up in a private sale with 32,000 miles. Since then he’s put about 25,000 miles on it. Hasn’t had any problems with it. Just regular maintenance and it sitll averages 35 MPG.
Also the “Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism Video” was hilarious. A lot of great one liners; “Our main export is cripling depression” hahahahahaha