Stewart writes:
The Jetta sludge issue had me wondering. I hyper-mile my 2003 Jetta TDI 1.9L which, of course, has a turbo. [Side note: if anyone wants to tell me what an idiot I am for mooching along at idle in 5th gear to get 70MPG, feel free to tell me why that’s bad. I am exquisitely sensitive to all the Type A drivers (going 15 MPH over, screeching to a halt at the next red light) and let them go by safely.] I change the oil every 5K miles with the recommended Castrol from the VW dealer. Here’s my question: I make my change just after a run of at least 20 miles and I use a suction pump to get the old oil out, a Pela PL-6000. I’m wondering if, by not draining the oil out the crank case plug, will I have sludge buildup in my Jetta?
Sajeev answers:
Mooching is fine, but I’d worry about unnecessary engine load in your fifth-gear-at-idle scenario. Maybe pop the Jetta out of gear and coast to more stops instead? It’s been debated before, and I still think coasting is better than staying in gear simply because you maintain higher speeds for longer time, keeping the numerator of the miles/gallon equation quite happy. Coasting is even better on cars that roll effortlessly because they are light on engine braking.
Back to the sludge:
Given the quality of today’s oils and the stellar reputation of the TDI, I doubt sludge is a big problem for you. Even if I’m wrong, at your oil change intervals, whatever sludge accumulated is small enough to suck through the Pela’s plumbing. My only concern with “sucky” oil extractors is where the tube rests: they won’t pick up all the old oil unless it by the drain plug. Unless you can see the tube when you remove the drain plug (good luck with that) can you be certain you’re getting all the old oil out?
Aside from that assurance, I use the drain plug (or plugs on dual sump systems) for oil changes so I can do a visual on mechanical bits I can’t see under the hood: check for leaks, inspect pulleys, poke a bushing, clean radiator fins, etc. That’s less important on newer cars, but your six-year-old Jetta is no spring chicken anymore.
Overall, I think you have nothing to worry about . . . unless the B&B says otherwise, of course.
I’m a drain plug fan myself. I want to get as much of the used oil out as possible, and with a set of wheel ramps it isn’t hard to get under the car. Also, while under there is is a good time to look at things like the CV joint boots, etc.
I like magnetic drain plugs for that extra measure of iron extraction as well.
Even so, I doubt the TDI is going to have sludge problems from using the extractor. You don’t have to go to a dealer to get a VW 505.01 approved oil for your TDI. Have a look at the approval list under the 505.01 section. http://www.mkv-gti.net/wiki/images/b/bd/Oilchart.pdf Most of these are hard to find in the US, but you can usually find at least one of them at auto parts stores which specialize in imports.
I’d say pop the plug out. Like the others say, you get the opportunity to look at other stuff while you’re down there, and if there’s anything in the pan that you’re not getting through the pump, how do you know without checking? Besides, where does all that oil go when you shut the engine off? Right into the pan, of course. Warm it up and let it drain for a good long time through the plug. That’s just my $.02
If that’s how you want to roll that’s fine. As for cruising in the TDI at that low engine speed I’d strongly suggest that you have some one with VAG-COM shut off the EGR for you or you’ll probably sludge up the intake badly. There’s also a mod you can do with the PCV to ensure that no oil gets in the intake as well. Read the TDI forums for stories of intercoolers full of oil and intakes caked with exhaust soot and oil. Keeping RPM’s >2000 RPM also shuts off the EGR but won’t help with your hypermiling.
As for doing oil changes with the extraction pump, I’m all for it. That’s how I did all teh changes in mine and there was never a problem with sludge. If there’s a sludge problem, the method of oil change isn’t going to affect it. There is probably a more fundamental problem.
While I commend you on your finding enjoyment in driving while hypermiling – everyone wants to be the best at something…
…have you considered that the frequent oil changes have an adverse affect on the total amount of petrolium used?
Might you be better off using a better oil and changing less? Not suggesting any particular brand but I think Amsoil and Royal Purple both make synthetics that they recommend longer change rates.
Frequent oil changes are generally better for the engines longevity but if you are only planning the life of the car at 100,000 miles, why attempt to make the engine last 150,000?
Just a thought.
I have two 1.8Ts. I bring my own 502.00 spec motor oil to the dealer with me, and they use that. I use a premium European-based Group IV Synthetic such as Motul 8100 X-Cess or Elf Excellium LDX (now known as Total Quartz 9000). Both cars have over 100,000 miles with no sludge-related issues whatsoever.
Most of the U.S.-based synthetics on the 502.00 list is hydrocracked (petroleum) with the exception of Mobil 1 0W-40.
By the way, If you see a motor oil with a VW/Audi Original Parts designation – the oil is Castrol Syntec.
If I were you, I would look for the Elf, Motul, Pentosin or Total synthetic brands listed in the 505.01 specification (from companies run by Engineers) – and stay away from the MBA-driven oil companies who will cut costs (and quality) just to try to squeeze some extra profits.
You have just seen how the MBA-driven approach worked for the auto companies (See: GM/Chrysler) these days…
Yup, mag-plug & ramps for me, too.
No. Sludge is created in certain engines under certain conditions. Usually a combination of low circulation in a certain high-heat area.If your engine is not a known sludger, stop worrying.
Suctioning oil is very common in Europe, I understand. I think draining is somewhat preferable, but given how often you change oil, I wouldn’t worry about it either. Happy hypermiling.
I have no problem with you hypermiling…as long as you aren’t doing it in the left lane! ;-)
Doing the whole oil change from up top is one of my favorite “features” of the TDI. I love the oil filter up top and VW obviously doesn’t want you messing around underneath, what with the stupid plastic tray under the engine. It takes as long to remove the tray as to change the oil. There is one in my A4 too. It’s Really aggravating that to do any work you have to fumble with lots of screws and the big ungainly tray.
I second John Horner’s recommendation of the magnetic drain plug. I didn’t know they existed until my first 911 purchase long ago (plug was stock from the factory.) Since then they have been on all my family’s cars. It’s always a moment of truth at each oil change when checking to see if the amount of metal filings has changed.
FINALLY! Something I can talk about from experience. Until last fall I had an ’03 Golf TDI that I sold with about 170k on the odometer because having two of them (my wife continues to drive her Jetta with about 170k on the clock) I learned that if something broke on one, it was going to be a short period of time before it broke on the other car. With the exception of timing belts (and a clutch upgrade on my car) I handled all maintenance, but I digress.
When we first got our cars I tried the oil suction pump deal. The main reason to do this is so that you don’t have to deal with the belly pan. Beyond that I didn’t see the point so I went to jackstands and the drain plug. Using a good quality filter and some Mobil 1 Delvac oil we change oil every 10k miles and my wife’s Jetta runs great, even as it approaches its second timing belt.
The EGR intake gunk issue is a much bigger problem with the TDIs. My car was chipped and I ended up with blockage. My wife’s car is stock so after spending some money having her intake cleanded I tinkered with one of the EGR settings using my VAG-COMM and since the intake gunk has been slow to come back.
Barring a design defect that creates a propensity for sludging, as was the case with some of the Toyota 6’s and with the 1.8 liter gas turbo VAG motors, sludge problems can usually be avoided with frequent oil and filter changes.
I would stick with the “severe” oil change interval in your owner’s manual, whatever that is, and use the viscosity and specific grade that the manufacturer recommends. If you’re adhering to that routine and sludging isn’t a common problem in that type of engine, then I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
Synthetic oil can be a workaround for some engines with sludging tendencies, because it doesn’t break down as quickly. Once an engine has been broken in, I would be inclined to use a synthetic, even if it is not required.
The 1.8T is the known sludger in the VW engine lineup. The 1.9TDI is not. Turbos on gassers run a lot hotter than those on Diesels.
The intake clogging on TDIs can be prevented by replacing the factory MAS with an updated one, specifically part # 0281 002 757. It is literally a 3 minute job requiring a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. I highly recommend the procedure. Otherwise plan on spending a full day prone atop your engine getting the intake off to clean it.
As for oil, my TDI is an earlier one so I don’t have to blow big bucks on exotic synthetics. I just use Delo or Rotella, and change my filter every time I change oil. I have a lift in my barn, so I always do it out of the bottom with the drain plug. I also let it drip out overnight… because I can. Like the others have said, I like the contemplative time under the car looking up at it. Gives me a chance to check for other issues and be aware of the car’s overall health.
–chuck
As others have said, the TDI doesn’t suffer from sludging problems like the turbo gas engines. However, if you’re lugging it in 5th gear a lot, you probably need to have an intake cleaning done. My 2003 Jetta TDI is at about 107000 miles, and I cleaned my intake about a month ago. It was hard to comprehend how much gunk was clogging it. And after cleaning your intake, do the EGR adaptation via VAG-COM.
I have two questions for you. Why are you changing your oil every 5000 miles, and why are you going to the dealer to buy Castrol oil? The oil change interval for the ALH TDI engine is 10000 miles. Any VW 505 00 compliant oil will be fine, which means you have your pick of Mobil 1 European formula (0W40), Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel-Truck (5W40), or Rotella Synthetic 5W40. All 3 of these oils are available at Walmart and other auto parts stores.
I use a Pela extractor to change my oil. I’ve only done it via the drain plug once before I bought my extractor. I put it up on ramps every once in a while and check things out, but I find there’s no need to take the belly pan off and drain it via the plug, unless you love laying on your back.