Reader chris (who apparently missed Farago’s declaration of the end of wagons in today’s podcast) writes:
Hi, I’m looking to purchase a used wagon for under $25K. It should have good reliability/quality, be full size, meaning good back seat room. I don’t like SUVs for their poor handling ang gas consumption. I’ve looked at volvo V70 (back seat too tight), Saab 9-5 (reliability is questionable on pre 2006 models, the later models are a bit more money). I’ve looked at the VW Passat, couldn’t stand the around town throttle control/drive-ability. The 2005 or so MBs E320 have issues with relieability and goofy electronic brakes that are defect prone after a few years. The Suburu Outback is too small in the rear seat, (and gutless). The Audi A6, is too exensive and reliablity is again questionable prior to 2006 models. VW Jetta, too small. What else is there??
Used? Taurus/Sable twins. Roomy and cheap. Mazda 6 wagon, too, though they’re hard to find and will run you a bit more.
Maybe a stripped down Venza? It’s kinda wagonish. (heavy on the ish)
Previous gen Mazda6.
Saab 9-3 Sportback is wagon-y.
2005-2007 Legacy GT wagon. Manual tranny only offered in 2005, so tough to find (I should have kept mine). Not quite “full size” but as much interior room as most “mid-size” SUV’s, and a hoot to drive.
It is really sad when I think of new models that there isn’t much to be had.
I think the Mini-MPV (Cube, Soul, XB) is the new sub-25k wagon.
So easy! BMW 5-series…preferably an e39 530i or 540i sport!
Driving dynamics: excellent
Utility: excellent-spacious, easy nuff on gas
Reliability: pretty excellent. Not a Civic, but not a VW, either.
Awesomeness: off the charts
(hmm…sounds like I need one)
Not sure which era Taurus BDB is referring to, so I’ll say Ford Freestyle/Taurus X just in case.
Don’t know about the reliability part, but Dodge Magnum?
Then there’s the Ford Flex, I’d imagine you could find one below $25K either slightly used or new with rebates. Speaking of Ford, there’s the Taurus X and Freestyle which I believe are car based.
talkstoanimals–
I mean the Taurus Taurus/Sable. You can get a loaded Sable wagon of recent vintage with low mileage pretty cheap if you don’t care about styling. If, overnight, I somehow got married and had two kids that’s what I’d pick up.
http://richmond.craigslist.org/ctd/1257589977.html
See? The upside of a model being a fleet queen!
Magnum SRT8, used one in PA $25k with 25k miles.
Chrysler Pacifica with 4 liter V-6.
Taurus X.
You can get a 2008/2009, virtually brand new, with all options for just over $20K.
It’s bigger and less expensive then the ugly Flex that replaced it.
Doh! How could I forget a car that is currently in the family stable? – BMW 328 wagon. Kinda small in the back seat, though.
BDB, I’m both amazed and depressed by the ’03 Tuarus you linked to. Amazed that such a clean ride can be had for so little. Depressed that Ford allowed itself to get to a point where its residuals are so, er, depressed.
– Ford Taurus X 3.5/6AT or Ford Freestyle 3.0/CVT – wagon enough for you?
– prior-gen Ford Taurus wagon, last built in 2004
– 2010 Subaru [Legacy] Outback with a wider back seat is now out and starts at $25k
– Mazda5, mine’s been called a wagon, but the second row only seats 2 in North America
I love my Mazda5. It’s kind of a cross between a wagon and a minivan. Works great for me.
Hell, talkstoanimals, that’s just the starting point. I bet someone decent at negotiating could get 1-2k more off, there are so many of them left over from fleets.
The Magnum is a much better bargain than the Taurus.
You can find some sort of BMW wagon for that much. A certified 3 series can even be had. I found a certified A6 wagon in Texas for 26k at this shop.
http://www.millenniumaudi.com/Preowned-Inventory-framein.aspx
I wouldn’t spend my money on that tho. My money would go to one of two family wagons.
A 2004-2007 Mazda6 wagon, in Grand Touring spec.
http://www.premiermazda.net/used-inventory/
That dealer has one for 14k.
I would also look at a Chevrolet Malibu Maxx. Great backseat.
This shop has a 2006 LTZ for 15k.
http://www.bergeyschevroletofzieglerville.com/used-inventory/vehicle-details.htm?vehicleId=a48e26677f000001009de832f84ede2a&useHistory=true#
So you can either spend it all on a BMW or Audi. A bit less on a Magnum that will guzzle fuel or do the smartest move and save 10k by buying a 2006 Chevy or Mazda.
What about the Ford Transit Connect with the backseat? There’s also the Mercedes-Benz c-class wagons that were sold for a few years. If your family isn’t fat or tall, it’ll work.
A Magnum sucks fuel like an SUV, a Maxx is a hatchback, a Mazda 5 is a minivan, and a Taurus X/Freestyle is a crossover.
Personally, I’d avoid Volvos like the plague. I’m kind of on board with talkstoanimals on the Taurus X/Freestyle, or dubtee1480 on the Magnum. Both vehicles offer plenty of room inside and reasonable fuel economy (Magnum with V6 for mpgs!). I’d suggest doing an extended warranty on anything you buy (if you can), but being domestics, these two should be relatively easy on the wallet to repair when compared to the Euro models out there. Unfortunately I wouldn’t call either one sporty, but they will certainly do the job you want them to do.
A Magnum sucks fuel like an SUV…
WRONG
5.7L V8 AWD Magnums equipped with the multiple displacement system easily get 25-26 mpg on the highway. This is not unusual because many other owners over at LXForums report similar calculations.
Incidentally, 25-26 highway mpg is approximately what my ’98 Subaru Forester managed. Much less satisfying to drive though.
I’m surprised the V70 was eliminated so quickly; it always seemed to have a decent sized rear seat to me. How about a late-model Jaguar X-type? Never been in the rear seat and it’s probably more Ford than Jaguar, but I drove a sedan version once and it seemed pretty well put together.
I just bought an ’09 Outback with manual. It is quick enough. I think the back seats are ok. Interestingly, it has much less interior volume than my ’03 Focus wagon (can you tell I like wagons?). It was 21000 out the door. Both CR and TrueDelta agree that Subaru make some pretty reliable cars.
BMW 5 Series, MB E Class or Audi A6 wagons should do fine.
Twotone
1st. choice: Mazda6 wagon
2ed. choice: previous-gen Subaru Forester
3rd. choice: Subaru Legacy Wagon
4th. choice: Taurus X
5th. choice: Dodge Magnum
After this the cars get progressively crappier. These all assume “used purchase”. For a new car, I’d look at the new Hyundai Elantra Touring, but it may be small for you, as you said about the Jetta Wagon.
A mini van is a station wagon. Why doesn’t anyone understand this?
I suppose “mini van” had to be coined to explain a vehicle that, in 1984, seemed like a radically new concept. (Except to anyone who could remember the VW microbus) They could simply have called it a “Tall, useful, ergonomically realistic station wagon” but that’s a mouthful.
Really, seriously, if you need the cargo capacity, get a mini van. Passengers over the age of 5 can actually get into the 3rd row seating. There is still cargo room even with the 3rd seat in use.
The wagon has evolved into something actually useful rather than being a sedan with a roof stretched all the way to the back and a seat in the cargo space.
I got my 06 Saab 9-5 SC for $15,000 w/29,000 miles on it. CPO. It has been problem free. Just look around you will find one for much less than 25 grand. The 9-3 SC’s are a bit more….You can still find them for less than 25 grand though. Look for an 06 and newer.
While you’re looking for the 2005-07 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon also set your search parameters for a ’94 thru ’97 Honda Accord wagon w/ lo miles, manual or automatic, as you prefer.
The Taurus X isn’t a bad choice and can easily be had well under 25k. Yes, it is technically a crossover, but a low and wagon styled one. If you can swing it though the Flex is roper for passengers, has much better seats (not that the T-X seats are bad the Flex just has some of the most comfy seats ever put in a passenger vehicle), and a quieter more refined ride.
Reliability on both is well above average.
Minivans are higher up and have sliding doors.
I love minivans, I think minivans are great, but if somebody is asking for a wagon a wagon should be recommended.
I have to concur with the Ford wagons. They are absolutely wonderful vehicles.
1) previous gen Forester Turbo. Might claim to be an SUV, but you’re not retarded are you?
2) Saab 9-5 SportCombi – very low used value, has been in production since the late ’90’s (bugs worked out!), it’s a Saab, it’s awesome.
Buick Roadmaster. LT1 with 4L65.
Buick Roadmaster. LT1 with 4L65.
Nice!
Legacy (GT), Mazda6, Mazdaspeed3 if you can go that small, maybe an EX35, it’s pretty damn low to the ground. I saw one in purple the other day and almost wanted one for a half-second.
What Paris-Dakar and BDB said. Get a Roadmaster. For $25K you can buy three of them with low mileage and in near-new condition, or buy one and literally rebuild everything so you have the moral equivalent of a new car. Get a Caprice if you just can’t stand fake wood (though a few Roadmasters are available w/o wood)
If for some reason the Roadmaster is too big, get the absolutely best, lowest mileage 1990-96 Buick Century or Olds Cutlass Cruiser wagon you can find. I know, the A body is not thought of as a refined car; it’s an early 80’s design. Don’t laugh until you have driven one, and checked out the cargo room, and enjoyed the 25-28 MPG on the highway (seriously). Make sure you have the Olds/Buick V6. By the early 90’s most of the bugs were out of the design. Do not buy a Pontiac 6000 or Chevy Celebrity with the 2.8 liter engine. Do not even think about that.
The A-Car Wagon isn’t a bad choice at all – the last few years they were dead-nuts reliable and would shock most people with their mileage.
If dead set on something less than 5 years old, Freestyle/Taurus X, with conventional Trans only – the Ford CVT is junk. Whoever is disqualifying these because ‘They’re CUVs’ is out to lunch. They’re cars.
But I still can’t think of a better choice than a Roadmaster. The idea of smoking Mustang GTs and Hemi Chargers in a fake-wood sided Buick is hard to resist.
The Wagon Queen Family Truckster. Stylish, able to survive 30 foot jumps, and you can lash dead people to the roof when necessary.
I’d hate to be that guy, but… Kia Rondo?
Yes, it’s right there with the Mazda5 in the debate on where the minivan/wagon divide lies, but it’s ultimately a better pick than the 5. It’s more practical, probably slightly quicker in a straight line (especially with a V6), and its catastrophic depreciation means you can buy one barely used for cheap.
Other than that, hmm. If the E-classes, Subies, Volvos, Passats, Saabs, and Audis are out, then yeah, that doesn’t leave you with much. The obvious remaining picks are the Taurii, Magnums, or Mazda6s (as suggested). Finally, there’s the really weird stuff. If you’re still willing to roll the dice on a Merc, maybe an R-class? Assuming anyone still even remembers the R-class (https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/mercedes-benz-r500-2/); needless to say, they too can be found in the used lots for cheap.
For value for money, you cannot beat Saab. I bought a BRAND-NEW left-over 9-3 Sportcombi for $22.9 after sundry rebates in March. This with 36K free maintenance, 48K bumper to bumper and 100K powertrain warranty. Had I been willing to suffer with an autotragic transmission, I would have had my choice of them in the Boston area for ~$20K. They are still out there for similar prices. Of course, the crappy part is I had a car that ultimately would have qualified for C4C (’86 BMW 535i) had I waited. Then again, it was really too nice to kill.
If the back seat is too small in the 9-3, Saab had the 9-5’s sludging issues sorted by 2004. A Certified Pre-Owned 9-5 is one heck of a car with a 100K mile bumper to bumper warranty. You can easily find a low-mileage certified car for $20K. I would say that the 9-5 is about the most reliable European car you can buy in the US. They just don’t have any major issues, partly because they have been in production since dirt was new.
I owned a 2000 9-5 wagon for several years, bought it stupid cheap with a salvage title (repaired accident damage) at 40K miles, kept it until 100K miles, it was absolutely trouble free, and has continued to be pretty much trouble-free for the friend I sold it to. Now at about 200K miles. The 9-3 is nicer to drive though, and big enough for my single-guy needs.
I would say that the 9-5 is about the most reliable European car you can buy in the US.
That’s basically the only reason I’ve avoided Saabs. You’ve almost got me sold on the 9-5. What kind of gas mileage does your 9-5 get? According to the EPA, they’re hogs.
Dad sold the 1969 Ford Country Squire full-size wagon to the neighbor. Phony wood glued to the sides and chrome roof rack and all.
A few months later a gas leak near the engine led to a fire that engulfed the entire vehicle.
Neighbor wanted a refund.
Dad guffawed.
Neighbor departed.
Buy a Ford and be adored.
Phony wood and all.
Wagons are indeed dead, unfortunately.
SUV styling aside, the current Subaru Forester is an awfully nice wagon. Reliable, nice handling, super safe, big back seat, plenty of cargo room, available with a manual or a turbo (but not both). Killer, huge sunroof too.
Mine was $21K before tt&l and I’m averaging 23-24 mpg with the manual. I couldn’t be happier.
“What kind of gas mileage does your 9-5 get? According to the EPA, they’re hogs.”
Don’t know what others will say, but my impression is it’s pretty easy for the non-Aero I-4 versions to get 30+ on the freeway. Ours is a light pressure turbo base model (04) and it will return 32 mpg without much trouble, even loaded down with people and stuff. Going around town, it’s significantly less, about 22 mpg with its automatic. Personally, if I drive it in full auto mode I always set it to Sport–makes it quite responsive.
2006-2008 Subaru Forester XT (turbo) if you can compromise a bit on rear leg room.
I totally agree with EAZY.
IMHO, the Kia Rondo is a phenomenal amount of vehicle for the money.
That and it’s safety rating is outstanding.
get the LX w V-6 and you virtually every option you might want except leather. Since many of the USED models are former rentals, finding 3rd row seat models in the used market is a bit tough, but they’re out there.
I buy these REGULARLY at auction. 2008 model years; LX; V-6, with 20-30K miles max for $8500-$9500; depending.
Although the original bumper to bumper 10/100K warranty is not transferrable, you stil lget he balance of the 5/60 bumper to bumper, so that usually will equate to 3 years or so of coverage.
It’s OPTIMA based, and sold for years in Europe as the Carens, so it’s been around long enough.
Although different; I compare this vehicle to the Mazda5; Matrix/Vibe; Spectra 5; Elantra Touring, MAXX; Freestyle, and others and you just can’t get as much vehicle for the price of a Rondo.
Lastly, for fun, try sitting in one. It is not even close to claustrophobic, has an extremely good large feel inside, and amazing visibility, unlike HHR / PT etc.
Do you want a wagon, in the low-roof sense of the word, or do you just want “not a sedan”? If it’s the former, and if reliability and rear seat room, you have no real choices. None, zip, zero. There are no reliable full-size wagons. Heck, there’s really only one full-size wagon made in the last ten years: the Dodge Magnum.
Forget anything European. The 9-5 is the best of a wretched lot and it’s still kind of cramped in the rear.
If you’re willing to compromise on wagon-ness, the Freestyle/Taurus, Mazda5 and Rondo are good choices. You get real rear-seat room because of the roof height without the stupid high floor of a crossover.
You could also opt for the ultimate wagons: reliable, roomy, comfortable. You know, wagons like the Sienna and Odyssey, which weigh more or less the same as the Magnum or E-Class or A6, get as good or better fuel economy and are much more reliable. Minivans are the modern full-size wagon
I love minivans, I think minivans are great, but if somebody is asking for a wagon a wagon should be recommended.
I don’t particularly like minivans, but a wagon was asked for, and a wagon is what I recommended – a tall one, with a sliding door. One that actually works to carry both passengers and cargo at the same time. One that is no longer than the old fashioned, low, sedan based wagons, but which carries twice as much stuff. I say again, a mini van IS a station wagon.
PS
Think of a “wagon” as a function rather than a body style.
If you want to say a wagon is a sedan with a factory installed pickup cap, then you’d be correct that a minivan isn’t a wagon. But if you think of a wagon as being something that carries several people, and a lot of cargo, (theoretically at the same time) then a minivan is a wagon.
The difference is that a minivan is actually good at it’s job, whereas the traditional sedan based wagon is not.
But of course, it’s quite possible Chris is concerned with style rather than function, and wants a sedan with a factory installed pickup cap where the trunk should be.
Wow. No love for the Audi A3? 29 mpg highway, can be had with a stick.
My 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero sedan gets 29-30 mpg on the highway, 20 in the city.
I bought it 5 years ago and it’s been exceptionally reliable. All cars have their weak spots, but the good thing about the 9-5 is the common problems are inexpensive fixes — the ignition cassette, rear shocks, crank position sensor, all pretty easy to do.
On the Mazda6, get the “5-door” rather than the wagon. You lose a trivial amount of cargo room (we have fit TWO empty winebarrels in ours), but have much more dignity.
@thebeastofrock
My 9-5 was a V6t, and I got ~22mpg around town (suburban, not stop and go slog for me), easily 30 on the highway. The 4s are similar for the current 260hp version, somewhat better for the earlier cars. I m getting 26/32 with my 9-3, but it’s a stick. I do NOT have a light foot.
To those advocating minivans – seriously?? I mean yes, if people and cargo carrying is all that matters to you then great, but they ALL drive like crap. Mushy at best. Wallowing awfulness with a side of terminal understeer at worst. And none of them get anywhere near the highway mileage of a Saab wagon. The OP never mentioned a need for more than 5 seats.
I’ve always had a weird thing for tall boxy cars (first car was a ’85 Civic), so I’d recommend the Hyundai Elantra Touring, which is a tall five-door hatchback version of the sedan that was designed in Europe.
Very cool car…amazing interior space (more than a Sonata, in fact), eager handler, fun to drive (if a little slow), plus a whole raft of goodies including sat radio and Bluetooth…20K with a short-throw manual. Looks cool in red.
Old Euro-wagons are tempting, but as the owner of a (currently vacationing in my garage) Volvo, I can tell you that when they go wrong, you better have a zero-balance line of credit on your house.
forditude :
July 29th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Wow. No love for the Audi A3? 29 mpg highway, can be had with a stick.
But can’t be had with a backseat that’s livable for anyone bigger than an Oompa-Loompa, unfortunately…cool car otherwise, though.
If you like the VW/Audi deal, maybe an off-lease Passat wagon?
My money is on either a 3 or 4 yr-old Saab 9-3 SportCombi w/ 2.0T or Mazda6 wagon. You can find both with a stick if that’s what you want. Both are decently roomy for people, and great for cargo. I just looked at some 6 wagons on sale in my area, and found an 04 with a leather and a stick with 31K miles for less than $13K.
3-4 yr old 9-3 SportCombis are going for closer to $20K with similar specs in my area. Either one is perhaps the sportiest wagon you can buy this side of a german.
But, honestly, if you want a FULL-size wagon, you’re looking at Subaru Legacies, 9-5s, A6 Avants, 5-series, or Merc E-class. Or go back to the early 80s for some American models.
psarhjinian :
July 29th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Do you want a wagon, in the low-roof sense of the word, or do you just want “not a sedan”? If it’s the former, and if reliability and rear seat room, you have no real choices. None, zip, zero. There are no reliable full-size wagons. Heck, there’s really only one full-size wagon made in the last ten years: the Dodge Magnum.
Forget anything European. The 9-5 is the best of a wretched lot and it’s still kind of cramped in the rear.
If you’re willing to compromise on wagon-ness, the Freestyle/Taurus, Mazda5 and Rondo are good choices. You get real rear-seat room because of the roof height without the stupid high floor of a crossover.
You could also opt for the ultimate wagons: reliable, roomy, comfortable. You know, wagons like the Sienna and Odyssey, which weigh more or less the same as the Magnum or E-Class or A6, get as good or better fuel economy and are much more reliable. Minivans are the modern full-size wagon
Thank you!
Is the Matrix a short wagon or a long hatch?
chanman :
July 30th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Is the Matrix a short wagon or a long hatch?
I’d think of it more as a five-door sedan…not enough interior room to really qualify it as a “wagon”, per se.
@dubtee1480:
Yeah, but I don’t think he’s looking for something as big as a minivan. And as practical as they are, they have ZERO driving fun potential.
OK, how about this: a M-B R63 AMG. Imagine: a 507 HP mommy-mobile that will do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.
Yeah, it’s a LOT more than 25 grand, but it’s the ULTIMATE sleeper…think of all the pink slips you could win. It’d probably pay for itself in a couple of months.
Actually, come to think of it, you can pick up a V-6 R-class off lease for 25 grand or so, and most are certified…
What’s the throttle control issue with the Passat? Here up north, you can get them with a manual transmission. Pretty roomy for tall people too.
I don;t understand why companies don’t kill off these crossovers and CUVs and just make wagons again.
Keep your eyes peeled for a Ford Country Squire, last made in 1991. They packed the dead-reliable 5-litre (302), they’re Panthers, and should run under $5k. Sink a couple grand into it freshening it up with some heavy duty/speed goodies from a boneyard and you’ll have a car most of us would probably envy. Best part is that if you’re at all mechanically inclined you can do the maintenance at home for a fraction of the cost of maintaining an Audi.
Dodge Magnum.
Hands down.
Full size, great rear seat room, nice and comfortable ride without the sloppy handling of an SUV and good fuel mileage (even from the 5.7 V8….not bad for the SRT-8 but I’m assuming you want something that doesn’t hit the wallet too hard).
dubtee1480 and psarhjinian nailed it squarely.
You never mentioned if you have a trade in or not? What are you currently driving?
I suggest the redesigned & larger 2010 Subaru Outback..wait a bit & get a demo….save a couple thousand bucks, including destination & the related ‘taxes on taxes’ stuff. Bob’s your uncle…should be under $25k all in. You won’t find a more capable overall vehicle in a wagon body….especially with Subaru’s AWD system with a reasonable curb weight for decent fuel economy.
Roadmaster + Miata. You can do well for $15K total budget.
You really oughtta reconsider your stance on the Audi A6 Avant.
Love mine. L-O-V-E mine…..bought used with 78k, despite the warnings of many….have put 55k miles on it over three years. Have replaced the front struts and changed the oil…that’s it. Everything else works great, car rides fantasticly well. Interior is the extremely comfortable…and a rock-steady 23 mpg. What’s not to like?
Wish Honda still offered the Accord Wagon in the US….I had one of those previous to my Audi, and it was excellent, too. Bullet-proof, efficient, comfortable and capable.
Also, echoing Subifreak, the Outback seems like a nice package, and is on my list to shop in about 3 years or so when the Audi is due for replacement.
Wagons rule!
I’ll have to second the Mazda5 recommendation. I’m really impressed with mine as it drives and feels a lot better than it should for the price. Everything you’d normally touch feels good and the stuff you don’t is inexpensive yet durable and certainly not cheap. It’s also very reliable and easy to maintain. The middle seats recline and slide fore and aft so room isn’t an issue though if you’re really tall the shorter backs might be irritating. Hasn’t been a problem though.
I didn’t listen to the podcast but I don’t know where the idea that the end of wagons is nigh comes from. I think people are going to be looking for more efficiency and utility in their cars and a wagon excels at delivering both. These days image self-consciousness is waning as well so there’s less stigma attached to a wagon. I think hatchbacks are returning too, so what do I know.
Based on the poster’s criteria, we are talking about biggish wagons (Volvo V70 back seat too tight) and car-based wagons (as opposed to crossovers and minivans).
Slim pickings.
BMW 5-series, if you can sleep at night knowing that a sub- $25k used one will be out of warranty. A 2001 or so 528i sport with manual transmission can be had for about 10-13 grand. A lot of nice driving car for the money.
Saab 9-5, possibly 9-3 (no experience, but these are promising on paper.
The Taurus/Sable wagons can be had cheaply. I’ve rented these and consider them appropriate for rental/fleet use. I wouldn’t put one in my garage simply because of the crummy handling.
But, really, if you can squeeze your back seat passengers just a tad, a 2004-2007 Volvo V70R (especially with the manual 6-speed transmission) is a whole lot of fun. Older/high mileage ones will run in the upper teens, newer ones in the mid-high twenties.
In response to the Roadmaster/Miata suggestion above, we have an Odyssey and a MINI Cooper S, excellent combination for the best of both worlds. The MINI can take two occasional back-seat passengers, which the Miata cannot.
The MINI can take two occasional back-seat passengers, which the Miata cannot.
+1 Miata!
No question – Dodge Magnum.
I picked up a CPO 2008 Dodge Magnum SXT last month with 16K miles on it for $12,800. It has the remaining 3/36 warranty, plus 6/80 power train warranty, roadside assistance, loaner car, etc.
LOVE IT. More then enough power with the 250hp V6 and a controlled ride in town or on the highway. Awesome style – relatively rare. I’m also impressed with the quality/simplicity of the interior and don’t think it’s nearly as “cheap” as some critics say. It was redone for ’08 and is identical to the current Charger.
Best part – the car-like driving position makes you forget all that room behind you (unlike an SUV). When you do need the room, it has 72 cu ft aft the front seats, far more then most of the wagons/SUVs listed.
Power, room, style and security (CPO) for 12,800 made this a no-brainer.
@midelectric: per the podcast, wagon enthusiasts are extremely overrepresented here and on other automotive forums. Per another joke in a prior podcast, the ideal turbodiesel wagon would have at least 6 forward speeds in its manual gearbox – see Jetta TDI and its whopping 1500 sold last month. Available wagons are just not good enough for many enthusiasts, going by the original article and 70+ posts above, as well as other prior posts.
OTOH, wagon buyers don’t exist in large enough numbers in real life for a manufacturer to sustain anything larger than a niche in the US.
We bought a Taurus X to replace our Saab wagon. The Saab was great but too small as our family grew. We wanted a another wagon, not an SUV, but there’s not much out there. We almost ended up keeping the 9-5, because nothing could match its combination of attributes. In fact, if the rear seat room is acceptable to you, a 9-5 wagon is an excellent choice. We loved ours – so much fun to drive, great ride, and yes – reliable. Go figure.
The Taurus X – which is a station wagon, nothing more – has filled the bill nicely. We are getting 25 highway mpg. It is roomy in all three rows, not particularly involving to drive but not terrible, and it isn’t gargantuan outside. It is taller than the Saab, but nowhere hear the tippy height of an SUV. You should give it a look.
One other thing – we bought our ’08 T-X used, with leather and only 16K miles, for $19,400. MSRP was $32K when new.
I would agree with erikhans and PartsUnknown… a 06-09 Saab 9-5 wagon would be a great choice. I know they are not gorgeous, but they are VERY practical, are actually still fun to drive, have great features, and hello… have you sat in the seats? AMAZING.
They should be cheap to buy, more expensive to maintain, but just more enjoyable than any of the domestic suggestions.
I had a 2005 Mazda 6 wagon; it was a good car but I’ve since graduated to an SUV. I would recommend the Mazda but the back seat wasn’t very large. I had a 5-spd too, fun car. If I had kept it it would be paid for :(
NJBloke
Nice job on the Magnum. Always wanted one of those.
I didn’t post this question, but I too have been shopping for a car with similar criteria. However, I’m specifically wishing for a roomy wagon with a stick. Pickings are slim, very slim. I really wish that Honda still sold an Accord wagon in NA, and not the jacked-up CUV version that they’re going to inflict on us to compete with the Toyota Venza.
My wife’s 2001 Honda Civic is the only one of our vehicles with a stick. When we have a second kid, it will be too small to be the family car. If we replace it with something with an automatic, we’ll miss driving a manual…. okay, I’ll miss it more than she will.
I haven’t test-driven anything yet. I had high hopes for the Mazda6 wagon, but talked to someone that said it sucks for larger people. (I’m 6’3″ and my wife is also over 6′.) No rear passenger legroom in the Mazda6 when the front seats are pushed back. I also want to check out the Subaru Forester. Although not a traditional wagon but similar, I think the Hyundai Santa Fe was available with a stick if you got the 4-cyl and FWD (probably isn’t much fun to drive though) and also the Mitsubishi Outlander, although I haven’t researched that one at all to find out if it’s any good.
If we don’t get something with a stick, we’ll probably wind-up with a minivan. I want to test drive a Magnum as well, but my wife will probably veto it because “RWD is bad in the snow”. I shouldn’t have told her it was RWD.
I would also be fine with buying a Buick Roadmaster wagon*** (preferrably without the wood paneling) but my wife thinks it wouldn’t be reliable because it’s too old. What she really means is that I spend too much time tinkering with the cars that I own, and she doesn’t want to buy anything that might cause me to spend more time out in the garage.
***If I was able to convince her to drive a Roadmaster, I’d go to the next level and try to talk her into an early 70’s Chrysler Town & Country wagon.
We just took our now mythical 2005 LGT manual wagon on a side trip while camping in the Smoky’s to hit the Tail of the Dragon run.
I’ve always thought that the handling was too squishy and the brakes were too soft, but once it set itself, the awd just bit in and the turbo shot it from one curve to the next. Overall it was far better than I expected from the trusty family truckster.
The best part though was my nine year old daughter laughing maniacally in the back seat. You don’t get that with a Miata.
I am amazed. People are recommending Saab? Junk from an already BK’ed car maker?
Since he said “the Suburu Outback is too small in the rear seat”, then I know:
1) He is OK with tallish wagon/crossover, because otherwise he wouldn’t consider an Outback
2) He want something really large
So, the best choice would be a Toyota Venza. It’s the largest new and reliable wagon.
If a V70 is too small then I would suggest a used Ford Flex. Something like this:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=c&car_id=260713825&dealer_id=567516&car_year=2009&rdm=1248967024876&model=FLEX&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=25&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=FORD&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=95037&advanced=y&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=21&standard=false
TheRedCar: “The best part though was my nine year old daughter laughing maniacally in the back seat. You don’t get that with a Miata”
Yes, Mazda has really improved the soundproofing in its trunks these days.
Ford Flex. It is the master of the large station wagons (CUV my arse, more like Wagon Queen Family Truckster). You should be able to get a new SE for $26117 (invoice less $1500 rebate) + 0% financing for up to 60 months. Yeah, its over 25K by just a smidge, but if your going to finance much of your ride the free interest will easily cover the difference.
If the Flex is too much wagon to love, the Taurus X is a great choice. You can wrangle a similar deal on a new one or clean up in the used market.
Mazda calls the Mazda5 a “space wagon.” As an owner, it is, for all intents and purposes, a station wagon with sliding doors.
If you have, or are planning on, children, sliding doors make the car.
When I went hunting for a family car, I specifically had the goal of no minivans (wife’s rule) or giant SUVs (my rule). My choices were limited to…. the 5 or the Magnum. No affordable VW or Saab, or any Subaru, was big enough for the job. There were some large sedans (the 300 and Charger spring to mind) that would’ve worked, though we wanted a wagon’s cargo payload.
My wife made the final call, it was her car. If it was my car, it probably would’ve been the other way.
At the time, there was no Flex. I’m not sure her standing on it, but a Flex might outrank a Magnum if I could afford it. Might.
“I’ve looked at the VW Passat, couldn’t stand the around town throttle control/drive-ability. ”
Uh..wat?
I have an A4, same mechanicals…I’ve Never had an issue with “throttle control/drive-ability”.
Put this guy in a Buick Roadmaster or something..
I remember the ’72 Ford Country Squire that was owned by friend’s parents — piss yellow, with fake wood glued to the side. What I remember the most was the industrial strength A/C unit — mid-July, New Jersey, wagon packed with kids, and it was cold enough inside to hang meat.
Why don’t station wagons have hip features like this anymore?
“Unique options and features:
With certain versions of the Country Squire one could install an AM/FM-Cassette stereo with a combined and fully-integrated Citizens’ Band (CB) two-way radio, and replacement dual-purpose automatic antenna (with only one visible difference that the aerial mast was a larger diameter, and black-band at approximately half-way up). The radio would then have the appearance of an original equipment, factory radio.
Optional were opposing side-facing rear seats, which could be folded down to make a durable cargo surface. Available for use with the side-facing rear seats was a folding table with integrated magnetic checkers board. Magnets under the plastic checkers pieces would keep them from sliding on the board while the vehicle was in motion. Behind a rear fender well was a hidden, lockable compartment, not visible when the rear seat back was in an upward position.
GM, Chrysler and AMC would adopt a similar configuration by the end of the 1960s. An advanced version of this was the 3-way tailgate which permitted opening the door sideways with the window up.”