Someone parks two cars near you. The first? A sports car. It could be a Porsche 911 C4 Cab, a Ferrari F430, or a Z06 ‘Vette. Something special. Expensive. Exotic. The other car is an oldie. Let’s say a 1976 Toyota Celica or a 1984 Volvo 240 wagon. Which one would interest you?
I’m hardly immune to the thrill of a four-wheeled magic feather. But oldies always put a smile on my face. The new stuff? Not so much. I see them all the time at the sales and although I appreciate the technology, it’s a bought commodity. An old car from a long time owner is something truly earned, and I rarely see them at the auctions.
To me it’s a mark of personal valor and integrity. Just as somebody takes years to build a successful business that changes people’s lives. An old car that is well kept through the years shows a level of loyalty and priority that is rare in this day and age. I always enjoy meeting these folks in my travels and should I pick up their car at a sale, I make sure they end up in a good home.
The new ones first impress me with the probable size of the monthly. After that I usually say “why?” shrug and move on.
Clean interesting survivors more interesting, if they are truly survivors. I don’t pick up on valor though, which requires conflict and danger. To me its more like good long term husbandry which is so rarely seen particularly with leased cars.
Well, I agree with you Steven. However, given that I live in NYC, the exotics are much more common than a ’76 Celica. In fact, I have seen 3 lambos in the past week. I glance at them, but get little enjoyment. Mostly, they are some rich idiot’s plaything or a rental from one of the high end car clubs/dealers. However, as Nick Cage pointed out in ‘Gone in 60 Seconds’ a vintage Ferrari or Porsche is a thing to behold. Of all the supercars I saw this week (3 lambos, 2 bentleys, a viper, a maserati, a testarossa) the one that made me turn around and go back for a second look was a red De Tomaso Pantera parked not too far from my parent’s place.
New cars all seem like isolation chambers– give me an old car that shakes, rattles and rolls and that will put a smile on my face (and a look of concern at other times!)
Even new cars that claim driver involvement still make it seem contrived, sort of like the moaning in an x-rated movie.
The Vette. A Celica that old deserves a view if and only if is in decent condition. They’re a VERY rare sight here. That kind of Volvo doesn’t exist here
However, if you say a 92 Celica, man we are into something. Or an 80’s Caprice (specially if it’s still kicking some 4 banger ass in the highway). Or a 70 Camaro, old Corvette, Sierra XR4i…
I agree for the most part with this:
To me it’s a mark of personal valor and integrity. Just as somebody takes years to build a successful business that changes people’s lives. An old car that is well kept through the years shows a level of loyalty and priority that is rare in this day and age
..because anyone with a big wallet can buy a snappy car but only a true car aficionado will put up with the old car. One is transportation, the other is a hobby.
The other issue for me is that the supreme competency of the modern auto has sucked out all the individuality and personality. My 996 turbo is an appliance for speed but I have to say that my ’89 3.2 Carrera is a lot more engaging to drive.
“It is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow”
I don’t pick up on valor though, which requires conflict and danger.
Apparently you don’t drive in rush-hour traffic and have to park anywhere near anyone else. It’s a war out there.
We’re all certified “hooners” around here, and as such, I have great affection for most cars. But I really enjoy seeing an older car still out there running, bringing it’s owner great joy. New 650i? eh…show me a well preserved 635 CSi from the mid 80s and I do a double take. New C-class? nice enough, but whenever I see a W123 lumber by, I can’t help but smile. I still watch for any hints of a clean 1979 Plymouth Fire Arrow for sale…:)
I would pick the oldie any day of the week. Nothing wrong with the new and in your face, but they have their fans, almost in a knee jerk way. Anyone can appreciate the impact of them.
The same can’t be said of the oldies; it takes some thought and a step back from the landscape into which they’ve faded to actually see them in the first place, much less appreciate them.
There is something about the smells of an old car with it’s under carriage road grime, years of grease and fluids and combustion, the musty upholstery all combined that is , for me, more of a tonic than the smell of a new car.
My 63 Valiant has that in spades. And the 95 Saturn SL1 is getting it. I don’t know what it is, but it’s comforting and familiar.Longer lasting and more meaningful than that “new car smell” for some reason. One reminds me of debt, the other a comfortable, paid -for favorite pair of shoes or shirt.
And that is why I am a fan ot TTAC and Steven Lang and Curbside Classics.
new cars do indeed suck, for the most part. The Celica would definitely catch my interest before the Ferrari would.
Now if I was being offered a drive in either one… I’d have to lean towards the Italian. :P
But I’d rather drive, say, a ’70 Ferrari Daytona than a 2008 F430.
Due to the realities of the Southern Ontario
climate, my 10 year old Firebird has to be garaged
for 5 months. Rattles sqweeks and all,
I wish I could drive it every day of the year.
I agree, Steven. All it takes to get into a new exoticar is a lot of loot. Ditto a no-expense-spared-park-it-over-mirrors restoration. But a well kept original old car is truly a rare and irreplaceable item.
Put me in a parking lot with a new Veyron and a well kept 62 Lark sedan, and I will be chatting with the owner of the Stude.
As I read this, the headline should read The cars are pretty slick, but New Car Owners Suck
Almost everything I prefer is new, like cars, houses, computers, consumer electronics, furniture, and clothes. I still hold out for vintage watches and infinitely resoleable dress shoes though.
I do like seeing pristine old cars every once in a while, if anything, it makes me appreciate mass market conventional cars like a Nova or Maverick, seeing how silly vintage exotic cars like a Countach, XJS or Vantage V8 seem today.
TomH,
I would say yes and no to that. The owners do suck and the cars are slick. However, I think that old cars have a story behind them that new cars do not. Now, if that f430 was picked up in Maranello and driven around Europe maybe. Even then though, something tells me that Chuck Goolsbee’s jag review as part of La Carrera Nevada would not have been as interesting if he was driving an f430.
I know that my newer 2007 Rabbit is the best car I’ve ever had. Yes, better than an old Audi 5000 (though it was nice was full size, a little heavy). It is better than my used Honda Accord because it has a stereo that actually works, it has an air conditioner that actually works and a security system that actually works. My used Honda has a pathetic stereo, a broken air conditioner that spews only hot air and is easy to steal. Certain newer things really are better than old things. Just look at the newer Taurus! To those people who think their old, beat up, broken car is ok – let me just say “You could have it so much better.” You don’t have to live your entire life like a miserable serf slave… go on, support the economy and live a little. Christian car workers need your money. I went from a hairshirt to a hareshirt and I love it.
However, if I had to choose between Sonic Youth Daydream Nation or modern lame glitzy pop – you KNOW I’m listening to the realness of Sonic Youth. If I had to choose between classic The Simpsons or newer Family Guy – I choose Simpsons. If I could watch classic MTV (Aeon Flux, Liquid TV, actual music videos) or modern MTV (Paris Hilton new BFF, unwatchable “reality tv” and almost no music or if there is music it is LAME POP music) I choose classic MTV.
Both would intrest me, but the old cars moreso. And I think it is because the old cars were at some point a part of my life, or of someone I know. Its like seeing an old friend or looking through a scrap book.
I do like those new Ferraris. Nice.
As for older cars, I always take a look at clean sporty cars from the 80s and early 90s. For example, well kept E30 M3, Honda CRX Si, Acura NSX, Celica All-Trac, gray market Skyline, 964-body 911, and the VW Corrado always attract my attention.
I have to say that for attention, the Ferrari wins hands down. If you’re into that kind of thing.
1976 Toyota Celica or a 1984 Volvo 240
Meh, that just screams poverty and failure.
jmo: You’re showing a lack of imagination.
Rear drive 200 and 700 Volvo’s can EASILY be converted to Chevrolet 350 V8 power!
(I know that’s sacrilege to Volvo officinados, but I’m a hot rodder at heart.)
I will pick an old Volvo 240 Wagon over pretty much anything else. My wife, well, that’s a different story…
jmo :
1976 Toyota Celica or a 1984 Volvo 240
Meh, that just screams poverty and failure.
Haha. I drive an ’88 240 wagon and I’m both successful and not living in poverty by any means. I just like the car. And I have nothing to prove or compensate for.
Yes – which is why I’d love to see TTAC do more reviews of older, interesting cars: from hot rods to woodies to the original Mini and the 356, foreign or domestic, you name it. “Older” could be five years ago or 60 years ago.
jmo:
1984 Volvo 240
Meh, that just screams poverty and failure.
I don’t agree. Most 240 owners just love their cars. Also until rust gets them the NA 240s just don’t break.
Be careful to judge the car-guy-ness of someone by what you happen to see them driving at any given time. That older guy in the Camry may have a pristine ’65 Cobra at home in the garage!
For me it’s old trucks, especially if they’re 4x4s. Nowadays it seems like you can get anything from sports cars to minivans to big sedans with AWD but there was a time when having four wheels driven was rather unusual, even in the snow belt.
If I have a digital camera with me I’ll often take photos and keep them on my computer in a file I call “old iron.”
And I think I like the “daily drivers” more than the full-on restorations. Not that the resto’s aren’t nice, they are, but I figure anyone can aim the “money cannon” at an old vehicle and make it good as new, the classics that are still running with a bit of primer, a dab of bondo, and a few twists of bailing wire require a lot more commitment.
Every time I see an old boxy Volvo or a BMW E30, I get a big smile on my face and wish I could buy a new one today. Hell, I’d take a Ferrari 308 over a 430 pretty much any day because the 308 would be fun and the 430 would have to be babied around town.
New cars are fun and all that, but frankly scream about ego more than anything. I could afford a nicer car than my old Boxster, but there is no reason to, and, in fact, I’ll probably just replace it with a Miata or old Mercedes SL280 one of these days.
As a daily driver, a new car can’t be beat. And even in terms of driving refinement and performance, old cars can hardly hold a candle to new ones… it’s a fair bet a modern Honda Civic could hold off many old “sports cars” down a challenging road.
Buuuut… there’s just something about old cars… the smell… the look… the “feel”… call me crazy, but even though it could never hold a candle to a modern all-wheel drive turbocharged rocket, nothing quite feels like driving a carburated old car with unassisted steering and brakes down a mountainside. When my midlife crisis hits, I’m pretty sure a Datsun Fairlady 2000 or an old MGB awaits me. Or even a first-generation Miata, since it tries so hard to mimic these old dinosaurs, while still offering relatively modern conveniences like actually starting in the morning and not catching on fire.
Oh… and a 76 Celica is sexy… though I’d probably go for a Mark II Escort or Datsun 510 first..
I always take a second look whenever I see an old Ford Bronco on the road. I love those things. Same thing with the old Saab 900 turbos– great episode of “Wheeler Dealers” last night featuring a 1985 900 turbo. What a car.
I don’t know how many times I’ve said, “Any fool with money can buy a new car, but it takes commitment to own and keep nice an older car.”
My dad, for example, has an ’89 e30 M3. Sure it’s not as fast as a new one, but you can’t just go buy one either… and it handles better than a new one.
I drive a ’93 Saab 9000 Aero. I’ve had it for several years, and some people still ask me if I recently bought it new. I’d love to have a nice e30 (stick shift and sport seats mandatory) or Saab 900 SPG, but the 9K Aero is treating me very well.
If I had money, I’ll tell you what I’d do, I’d go downtown and buy a nice 2002…, or an Alfa GTV, or something else unique. I’d probably also buy a new-ish car, like a 335i wagon, or an S4/6 Avant. You know, something practical, yet that still has some character.
Keeping an older car nice takes attention and dedication that the owner of an in-warranty car or multiple new exotics will never appreciate.
When I see a new “super car”, I can almost be certain it belongs to a jerk — lawyer, owner of debt collection agency, movie star — etc. Real car guys can almost never scrape together that many Piastre because the kind of professions that bring big money these days would destroy a real car guy’s soul. Knowing that some sleaze has got his paws on that new machine makes it a complete turn off. It’s like that perfect 10 super model that’s hooked up with some greasy Russian oligarch. Disgusting.
Perfection is boring. Perfect people are hard to find in a crowd since they actually have no discernable characteristics. Perfect things are used as models because they contain enough of our own personal qualities to attract, but none of our flaws to be remembered. They are anybody.
Anyone can appreciate beautiful things, but appreciation isn’t the same as love. Love comes from intimately experiencing something most others ignor. We fall in love with the imperfections found within an object, thereby personalizing it with ourselves, and giving it greater value. Yes, we can fall in love with perfect things too – but not the kind of love found with an owner of an everyday ride. Knowing that anyone can fall in love with an object, causes that object to fall in value and emotional appeal. Believing that a car would not be considered beautiful and treasured by most people creates a bond that perfect cars cannot create.
As cars become more perfect, we hear how difficult it is to be excited about them. Toyota and Honda have this problem, and Ford has also struggled to create vehicles with emotional and exciting appeal.
You see, the old joke is about how the committee created the camel, in order to appeal to everyone – but that isn’t what happens. Committees create loveless objects, stripped of personality and style in order to appeal to everyone. GM is ran by people who love profit over product – and their cars are the biggest jokes of all, aren’t they?
jmo, owning an older car does not automatically mean you are poor and a failure. Eccentric, maybe.
An example is someone in my family that drives an old Eagle Premier as his daily driver. But, he’s a muscle car guy at heart. The man owns a ’69 Daytona (more rare than the Superbird), a ’70 Challenger, and an 80’s Grand National.
I know another guy that drives an old full-size van. He has a VW van, an old BMW motorcycle, and a 60s Chrysler (can’t rememeber which one) in his barn.
Here is a line from the old Car & Driver that I remember and think of often. It pertains to the VW Beetle but is relevant today:
– the odd thing about a cheap, frugal car like the Beetle is that the poor folks that should be driving it wouldn’t be caught dead in one, and the folks who are buying the car could easily afford somethign more expensive.
New car = huge payment and trips to the wonderful dealer service dept. to get the small stuff fixed.
Used car (bought from a private owner with service records) – much smaller payment and a few trips to indie repair shops for bigger problems.
I still stop when I see well maintained 2000-01 740i’s with the short wheel base (when 740’s were beautiful) or when I see an E34 M5.
i still remember talking to a mercedes salesman in the service department and someone drove a 450SEL 6.9 in… now that car is a prince amongst the mexican and south african made messes of late
same deal at a ford dealership
some guy drove a ’67 mustang in to look at new Ford Focus hatches for his wife
Wait. Stop. Hold the phone, Louise!
There are cars other than the Volvo 240??
I’m not poor, either. I just enjoy driving the Best Car Ever Built.
@ jmo…please read “Rich Dad/Poor Dad” some day. The vast majority of millionaires in this country do NOT zoom around in Ferraris or Lambos…rather usually used mid-sized sedans. Poverty and failure? Hardly. Holding onto a huge payment for a depreciating asset…now that is stupid. I love my 1997 Toyota Tercel…she’s paid for, is deadstock reliable, has the coldest A/C I’ve ever experienced and it makes me laugh at all of the other folks here in my office that stroke big checks each month to keep their showpieces on the road. Am I a failure or in poverty? I’m a college graduate, professional engineer, working on finalizing the last bit of my debt (except my home) and have a son that was accepted to all three military Academies (now at the US Air Force Academy). So…I guess that my driving such an old, uninteresting car makes me a slug. So be it…
Threeer:
Kudos for your success, but please don’t suggest that the schlock “Rich Dad/Poor Dad” is anywhere near the right place for someone to begin learning financial literacy.
Its author, John Kiyosaki, is first and foremost a purveyor of low grade motivational dreck frosted with feel good down home drizzle. His work is filled with likely fabrications and improper facts (IMHO). Further, his type of “wealth building” is exactly the sort of over-leveraged approach to real estate investing that helped fuel the retail side of our nations current financial crisis.
I’d sooner spin someone around to make them dizzy, send them blindfolded into the finance section and then recommend the first book that they hit on the way down.
@ Comedian: That is also one of the basic discoveries related in the book “The Millionaire Next Door”.
The authors, through interviews and as part of this study, found that the majority of the rich spent their automotive dollars on older, used machines rather than the latest & most impressive. It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that bling…..
What the book underscored was that people with actual money and financial sense weren’t wasting it on impressing the neighbors. And they all spent less than they made and lived well below their means.
JMO: Driving an old car is not an admission of “poverty and failure”, unless all show is how you want to live your life and your self image so delicate it needs to be propped up by always chasing the newest most impressive.
Then it’s about a value system and not about money in the first place.
It could just as easily be said that new cars just scream emotional poverty and financial ignorance.
I will go gaga over any magically preserved old car I see on the street. The more mundane the car, the better because someone really cares. I have seen two as-new early ’70’s BMW 2002’s in the last week that really knocked my socks off.
I admire modern new supercars, but when they do most things they are called upon to do no better than a car worth 1/10th or less their value, do some things far better, but some others far worse, they lose out in my estimation.
The original title for this article was, “Goodies”, as in oldies but goodies. RF made it about three times better via the edit process and put the title on top.
I don’t think buying new, or even buying a new dream car, is the end of the financial world. But in my travels I see so many late model vehicles that I’m just not impressed by them anymore.
Anyone who knows me well knows that I’m pretty obsessed with frugality and longevity. I see most of the problems in our society as symptomatic of a culture that encourages a wicked cycle of consumer debt… and when you see thousands of once new high quality vehicles trashed by their prior owners, it starts to rankle your skin.
I’m not religious. But the old saying of ‘teaching someone to fish will give them enough food for a lifetime’ hits home every day I’m at an auction.
Mid eighty Caprice’s are fairly common around
here. Usually driven by a GM retiree,I saw an
84 the other day. He must be using a Q tip on
his wire wheel covers. The paint looks original
blue GM code 28. The Chevy looks like it rolled
off the line yesterday.
God willing,if I have any input my 09 Impala
will look like that in 25 years.
my stable is full of 88s, waddyyou think floats my boat? I spent my drive down rt3 this afternoon wondering what yr the Oldsmobile was beside me. I think it was a 37
’88 5.0 Mustang daily driver. All stock. Only 257,000 miles on it. Reliable as all get. New tires, synthetic oil, Optima battery, ceramic pads. Starter/alternator/water pump/master cylinder, etc; all lifetime warranty items thanks to the part stores.
New motor? No problem. New trans? No problem. I’ll drive it till the wheels fall off and put them back on and drive it some more!
Could put a million miles on it. Theft, fire, or crash could get in the way of that though. Never bought a new car.
Buy something old, cheap, and easy to work on.
@ Andy D I havn’t spotted it for a while,but I used to see an oldtimer driving a 59 two tone Olds.That car is freakin huge!
This is why I love old cars. Whenever I drive my ’74 Fleetwood Brougham, total strangers strike up conversations with me. Whereas if I drove up in a new Lexus I would be totally ignored. Anything that brings people out of their shells has got to be good.
Another bizarre blog.
And a really strange piece of circular logic.
How can there ever be these rare gems of used car candyland if at one time they didn’t start off as a NEW CAR and sucked?
Or is it only the NEW ultra high end exotic or premium sports cars that suck? Then it reminds me of more of the same class warfare drivel.
Yeah, sure, I want the Volvo wagon or the Celica instead of the Ferrari or the Z06. And I insist on working in the hot warehouse for 25K a year instead of being the VP of Sales. I also want to take the bus instead of fly on my next vacation.
When I buy cars at auction, I don’t pretend to be some car rescuer. I want the newest, shiniest, lowest mileage, most sought after models for the lowest price. And I couldn’t care less if my buyer takes it and raises llamas in it, or spray paints it pink. I don’t carry Hemmings in my pcoket, just the black book. But perhaps that’s too much elistist capitalism.
What a great topic! To respond to a couple things:
1. The Volvo 240 is not the best car ever built, the Volvo 940 is. Evolution is a wonderful thing. have owned 3 240s, 4 740s, a 940, and a 960. All great cars, but the 940 is in a class by itself. As long as you are not in a hurry….
2. I have a new car – ’08 Saab 9-3 SportCombi 2.0T 6spd stick. Fabulous. Quick, comfortable, and practical. Only way it could be better is if it was the diesel we are so cruelly denied in the States. Really, the first new car I have ever bought. Why? ‘Cause I turned 40 this year and I can easily afford it. Especially at the stupid cheap discounted left-over price. $22.9K, to be exact. Nice to have a car I don’t have to think about for the next 5yrs/100K miles or so. I’ll likely keep it long enough for it to be a well-kept old car. :-)
I also have three old cars. ’92 Saab 900 Turbo Convertible, ’74 Triumph Spitfire, ’69 Saab Sonett. All equally fabulous in their own way. The 900 is just about modern enough that I am comfortable taking it on long trips (in the summer), despite having nearly 200K miles on it. Impecably maintained by previous owners and myself. The Spitfire and Sonett are strictly for fun, though both are completely reliable. Just not particularly comfortable!
3. “It is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow” No truer words have ever been said. In the Triumph, with it’s kicking 80hp (dual carb and headers) 1296cc motor, I can drive pretty much FLAT OUT everwhere, all the time. Near redline in the first three gears all the time. Fling it around corners at the limit. And not even break the speed limit in most cases. A Kia Rio will kick it’s ass in a straight line. I don’t care, the car is about the most fun you can have with your clothes on. I’ve owned it for 14yrs and will likely be buried in it. If I drove the 9-3 in the same manner, I would be in jail – it will go nearly 100mph in 3rd gear! I rarely exceed 2500rpm, there is just no need to. I can’t imagine how frustrating it would be to drive something like a Ferrari in this country. Luckily I have mostly grown out of my Baruthian tendancies. I drove like a complete maniac in my younger years.
So count me in as another one who loves to see well-kept older cars around, BUT if I need to drive from ME to NJ for work, I’ll take my new 9-3.
I’d talk to the Ferrari owner, but the chat with the 76 Celica owner would be longer. I’m not hot for any Volvo, but yes on the 76 Celica.
I recently spoke with a local Audi R8 owner – we focused on his difficulties actually locating a car to buy (several states away), before I realized that we live in different worlds and I didn’t want to seem like some sort of car groupie.
i have a 1986 oldie volvo 240 wagon- my first car! had it for only 2 weeks. I got 133km out of a full tank of gas, of 60 litres… that seems wrong. ANyone got any idea on the fule ecconomy of the 240 volvo 2.6 l? broke novice! and i am proud of it. I t is so easy to park !
@JMO
I got the joke and I agree – 76 celica? Really? 240 Wagon – sure, if (as one of the commenters pointed out) it had something other than the pathetic lump under the hood it came with.
Old vehicles don’t necessarily mean poor, but driving a 76 Celica suggests a certain failure to understand the concept of “driving.”
Having said that, let loose the dogs of flame….