Hashim writes,
Dear Sajeev, I have a 2003 Model Honda Civic LX1. It has about 94000 Km (not Miles). I am very disturbed about the continuous chirp chirp sound I hear from my car when I start it. It goes like chrrp chrrp chrrp in continuous motion. Some guy told me to change the belts in my car, all done, even changed the timing belt; still the problem is there. I have no loose or cracked belts. But the problem is still there.
I have noticed that when I gently press my clutch, the sound immediately goes away, when I remove my foot, the chirping sound is back. I don’t like this, is there any easier way to get it fixed? Is the fix worth its price or should I just eat dust and be quiet?
Sajeev replies:
Some guy? Oy Vey! Reading those two words always makes my stomach churn.
Misdiagnosing car problems is great for heartless mechanics, or know-it-alls unaware of the financial ramifications of their words. Granted, you might be due for a new timing belt, but examining the other belts (or misting them with water) was all you need.
You replaced normal wear items, so it’s not a big deal. But don’t listen to “some guy” again: find a smart (and honest) non-franchise mechanic instead.
The again, take it from “this” guy: if the noise comes from the clutch pedal, look at your clutch. I’m guessing pressure plate or throw out bearing is at fault. Or replace both, since you’re gonna have to go in there to diagnose the problem anyway. Speaking of, with that mileage, now is also the time to get a new clutch.
Best and Brightest, was this (mis)diagnosis really that easy?
[Send your technical queries to mehta@ttac.com]
Agreed, it sounds like the through-out bearing. I doubt if there is a free-play adjustment though that can be considered is there is. It sounds like the bearing is slightly loose when not under pressure and thus the noise. The problem is, that to completely verify the problem you’ll have to take the entire blasted thing apart which is a pretty big job. If it doesn’t adversely affect the operation of the car i.e. shifting, etc., I’d let it go.
I’m not sure why the throw-out bearing would make noise while not engaged, unless as rpol35 suggests, it continues to spin only with no load. But if you do have the throw-out bearing replaced, along with the new clutch make sure the mechanic also replaces the pilot bearing and slave cylinder (if Civics have hydraulic clutches).
Could also be the pilot bearing. Could be to little “play” if it’s an adjustable clutch in conjunction with the throw out bearing. (Don’t know if this car is cable or hydraulic clutch.)
And IMHO a clutch should last WAY more than 60K miles, even in the worst of driving conditions. The original clutch on my 626 went 220K miles. Very very driver dependant.
#1 cause for failure of the throwout bearing – riding the pedal.
“Speaking of, with that mileage, now is also the time to get a new clutch.”
Are you kidding? That’s only roughly 58000mi. A properly driven Civic clutch should give you 3-4 times that mileage! My 93 Civic (now owned by a friend) recently passed 200,000mi on the original clutch!
That’s where I’d start too, Sajeev. If the noise goes away with pressure on the clutch pedal, then the noise is very likely in the clutch somewhere. I know where I live (DFW), there are tons of non-franchised Honda shops that would likely figure the problem out very quickly, and for a reasonable fee. Even a “real” Honda shop would probably only charge about a hundred bucks to check it out, and then you’ll know if you want to spend any more dough on it.
since it disappeared once the clutch was pressed, i would automatically rule out belts. it most possibly what you say it is.
I hate chirping sounds from cars. i had a chirp in my 83’s celebrity dashboard, drove me nuts until i dismantled the whole car a put it back together well sort off…
The again, take it from “this” guy: if the noise comes from the clutch pedal, look at your clutch.
Now that’s just crazy talk. It’s clearly the exhaust system backing up and causing the clutch pedal to make noise.
Like everybody said throwout bearing. Sure your Clutch might have life in it still, but why not replace it while the trans is out. Labor shouldn’t be much more, and a complete clutch kit will around $200 at most, and will include new clutch disk, pressure plate, throwout bearing, alignment tool, and pilot bearing (if available for the Civic.)
MBella : Like everybody said throwout bearing. Sure your Clutch might have life in it still, but why not replace it while the trans is out. Labor shouldn’t be much more, and a complete clutch kit will around $200 at most, and will include new clutch disk, pressure plate, throwout bearing, alignment tool, and pilot bearing (if available for the Civic.)
Added labor for a clutch should be zero since you’re already taking everything out, hence why I brought it up.
If the entire clutch kit is $200, this is a no brainer. Thanks for that.
I had a ’98 Civic that made the same noise when almost new. Never did figure it out since the car was a huge lemon and I dumped it.
“i had a chirp in my 83’s celebrity dashboard, drove me nuts until i dismantled the whole car a put it back together well sort off”
I thought that I was the only one.
This’ll make Bertel proud: with the wonky electrics, my OCD for cleanliness and the infuriating squeaking, I got to the point where I could disassemble, clean and reassemble the dash in my Jetta in under an hour.
For the Civic-guy, I would go with throw-out bearing. A throw-out bearing or pressure plate failure is a stuck-in-traffic-and-the-car-won’t-budge situation. Even if it just an adjustment that is needed, you’ll be torqued if it’s one of the more serious possibilities.
Slam dunk easy diagnosis, it’s the clutch. Either some guy is an idiot or he didn’t really listen to what you were saying (shutting off his hearing at “chirping sound when I start it”) or you left out the part about how the noise goes away when you put pressure on the clutch pedal. Sorry to hear that you went through the pain, i.e. expense, of replacing the timing belt approximately 40,000 miles early. I would take it to a well recommended mechannic, let them know all of the symptoms, and have them verify – or not – our diagnosis. If it is the throwout bearing, etc. I would probably go ahead with replacing the clutch while you’re at it. Based on recent experience, you are probably looking at a large amount of labor (8 hours to replace the clutch in my Mazda6), and unless the clutch is horrendously expensive, hopefully not for a Civic, the extra cost for parts should be negligible compared to the labor.
Sounds mighty familiar!:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/piston-slap-niedermeyer-dumps-the-clutch-actually-no/
They confirmed it’s the throw-out bearing. I’m still negotiating with Toyota (they’re just stalling) about a warranty on the first one they installed. And I NEVER ride the clutch.
If it comes from the clutch pedal it’s gotta be the clutch.
Changing the belts was a bonus.
Still surprised at needing a new clutch at 94k (km). Sold my 96 Civic EX a few years ago at 157k miles with the original clutch still performing brilliantly.
“Speaking of, with that mileage, now is also the time to get a new clutch.”
Are you kidding? That’s only roughly 58000mi. A properly driven Civic clutch should give you 3-4 times that mileage!
Agreed. Unless it’s being driven like the car in the picture, the clutch itself should be good for at least 100k miles/160k kms, if not much more.
If the whirring drives you nuts, or if the clutch is slipping, replace it along with the affiliated bearings and components. This shouldn’t cost too much, although I’m not sure what the prices are now. Ten years ago, replacing the clutch and kit on my old ’84 Civic only cost about $100 more than having the timing belt replaced.
Hey guys, its me the real Question asker :)
Thanks for all the nice people who are trying to help me. Post your suggestions as much as you can so that we can pin point this problem.
The closest answer which came to me was this one from a civic forum.
http://www.civicforums.com/forums/36-mechanical-problems-vehicle-issues-fix-forum/246971-diy-diagnose-manual-tranny-noises-save-some.html
According to them, I have a problem called “Input Shaft Bearing”. Dont know what is that but can you guys tell me more about it. Is it worth fixing or not. I hate to get my car all into pieces just beacuse of some bird chirp but then again, I hate the chirping and the bird also… :)
Got a headache? Try brain surgery first!
The guy says “when I gently press my clutch, the sound immediately goes away, when I remove my foot, the chirping sound is back.”
The key words here are “gently press.” That indicates even a very slight movement of the pedal (i.e., not enough to start disengaging the clutch) stops the noise. The first thing to do is spray WD-40 or such onto the pedal linkage. If that doesn’t work, at the risk of sounding like a Redneck, I’d suggest a cheap Plan B: use duct tape, a wooden block or a hefty rubber band to keep the pedal slightly depressed. Now, that may accelerate throwout bearing wear, but it’s apparently happening anyway.
On the subject of clutch longevity, I’ve never replaced one, except for the ’62 Falcon, at ~100k.
Car/clutch history:
1977 Toyota Corolla, bought used at 91k, from one of the Iraq weapons inspectors, who I doubt had ever had to replace it. I drove that car to 161k, no problem.
1993 Saturn, bought new, driven to 147 K. Never replaced the clutch, .
1999 HOnda Accord. Bought used at 67k, I doubt the clutch was ever replaced, but don’t know. At 161k, the clutch seems fine.
Maybe Michael Karesh will have some harder data.
Regarding the hard driving, i never race with my car nor i am a harsh ricer type of guy. I am the second owner of this car and the first owner was an old IT guy with no children. So i doubt that I need to change the clutch or something is wrong with the clutch…
FWIW, I had this exact problem on my 96 SuperGoo Outback. Input bearing chirped. There was also a slight rattle in top gear.
My trusted local mechanic advised “turn up the radio, and drive it”. He told me some trannies can have these minor issues and still last darn near forever without really needing a rebuild. And indeed that’s how it turned out. I drove the car about 60K more miles before selling it. The problems never got worse.
But then again, a Subaru tranny might be a different beast than a Honda. I’ve never owned such a coarse and unrefined machine. Subaru should label all thier cars “for agricultural use only”.
zorkor: unfortunately that post you linked to sounds right on. A big job and expensive if you don’t DIY. This is the part you’re looking at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3tAV7idcSs
Here’s another description of the job. Honestly it sounds like a bitch. At least a full day of work if you haven’t taken the tranny out before: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=596873
Don’t do it without a manual. Labeled plastic baggies is a good tip, and when I’m going deep into uncharted territory, I like to take pictures along the way to remind myself what goes where when I’m putting it back together.
belt tensioner
It’s clearly something related to the clutch, the input shaft bearing seems like a likely culprit, or a good place to start. Too bad that’s a labour-intensive repair.
I have a 98 Civic (212k km…original clutch btw) and I have a similar tranny problem although I’ve narrowed it to a counter-shaft bearing (noise in every gear except 4th). The thing is, aside from the noise, the tranny is fine. Non car-minded people don’t notice it at all. Your bearing may not be right, but it can probably go a long, long time (more than 50k km).
Unless you have money to blow, I’d ignore it except if it gets much worse or affects the driveability of the car.