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Since Pontiac won’t be part of “new” GM, the brand becomes another distressed asset that will be sold off by the bankruptcy court just like the closed plants. Perhaps New GM can convince the bankruptcy court that selling off the Pontiac brand is not in the restructured company’s best interest since it would end up competing with them, but the same can be said of their other assets like factories and machinery that competitors may buy. Someone will buy the Pontiac brand and associated IP for nearly bupkis. Hell, the licensing rights for diecast GTOs and Firebirds have value. Maybe Maisto or Mattel will buy the Pontiac brand.
26 Comments on “Prediction – Pontiac Brand Will Live...”
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if it is really cheap I suppose someone with some cheap sport scars could buy and revive it. i could imagine a Toyota Celica or Hyundai Tuborion type car would do well. Just concentrate on semi-performance cars, not family sedans or so :-)
I read only last week that a slew of Pontiac dealers were trying to buy the name. Now, if they could also afford to buy 50% of NUMMI and contract with Toyota to send over kits for the Avensis they’d have a sedan sized between Corolla and Camry. Call it the Grand Prix. Then contract Toyota to badge-engineer a version of the Scion tC to sell as the Pontiac Firebird (4 cylinder) and Trans Am (turbo 4 cylinder)
Then if they still had a few nickels left over, go the the bankruptcy court in South Korea, hand over some dough and buy 10% of Ssangyong in order to have them send over some new Chairman W sedans and Rexton SUV’s – to sell as Bonneville and Safari, with (ex-Mercedes) 3.6 litre DOHC 6’s. This would save Ssangyong and help settle down the workforce (since Ssangyong would actually have a viable additional outlet to sell their products).
Vibe hatchback
Grand Prix sedan (Avensis)
Firebird and Trans Am (Avensis coupe/tC based)
Bonneville sedan (rwd)
Safari (awd wagon)
I’d look at a Ssangyong based RWD Bonneville…. I’d even consider buying one if the price were right! About the size of a 5-series BMW, with 250hp… 5 cog automatic… rear wheel drive… if it could be priced in Hyundai Azera territory (i.e. about $28,000), they’d sell all they could ship over…
The virtually all dualled Pontiac GMC Buick dealers all have “used car lots” which could be converted to dedicated non-GM Pontiac outlets to allow them to retain their crappy new-GM Buick GMC franchises, and I’d bet a LOT of the discarded Pontiac-GMC-Buick dealers would LOVE to have a chance to come back into the ring again.
Cap that with Toyota reliability and wow…. old GM could spin off a viable Pontiac brand (much to the chagrin of Washington DC and New GM, of course).
Will they also sell the rocket brand?
But I make another question…
Does Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac still have value as brands?
Pontiac actually still outsold Buick until very recently, Stingray. I believe it also outsold several other makes, such as Suzuki, Mitsubishi, etc.
What really gives Pontiac value is the potential name recognition; the repeat suckers – I mean buyers – who have put up with GM’s lack of quality control and branding fiascos (Aztek, anyone? how about a nice Pontiac Montana minivan?) as well as the potential dealer network of rejected GM dealers just READY WILLING AND (some still) ABLE to get some revenge in the marketplace… and the trashed dealers are all across the entire country. If it were seen to be necessary to actually have a company in place to distribute parts then I know that the old (pre-GM) Daewoo USA Inc. is available for sale – the company had gone bankrupt when GM refused to sell it any Daewoo cars after GM bought Daewoo from the Korean bankruptcy court in 2002…
Speaking of Mitsubishi, the US built Galant is quite “Pontiac-like” and sized much as the best-selling Pontiac (the G6). Perhaps a Vibe and a Mitsubishi Galant based Grand Prix? Why not throw in a Normal, Illinois Mitsubishi Eclipse and badge it as a Firebird? Why not even an Outlander rebadged as a Pontiac Safari? The vehicle even resembles the Vibe (on steroids). Mitsubishi sure could use the extra business…
New Pontiac sales could start within months – literally. Not even a hiccup. Pontiac would be very very wise – if they can pull it off – to provide a 7 year 100,000 mile no-hassle, 100% guarantee, as well. And be sure to advertise that they are NOT part of GM any longer…
Pontiac Motors LLC (?) could be based anywhere, but Nevada would be a great place, given the tax haven status of the place. Plus it is fairly near the NUMMI factory, and only a short airplane ride away from the Mitsubishi factory. The old Daewoo operations are actually based in California, but that doesn’t mean the corporate entity need be “situated” in that dreadfully overtaxed and bankrupt state.
I bet the remaining ex-Daewoo dealers would jump at the chance to grab a Pontiac franchise in any “open” areas near their old dealerships, as well.
Pontiac…alive or dead? Let’s recap…
– The PTFOA says there’s a perception gap between GM and the rest of the world. The rest of us say, “No, they’re better than they used to be, and so is everybody else.” That’s negative value for Pontiac.
– The position of Pontiac in the product portfolio was very unclear for many years. Performance cars? No, just badge engineered Chevys. More negative value for Pontiac.
– “Ssangyong.” That doesn’t exactly roll of your tongue. Meanwhile, “Chery” is neither “cherry,” “cheery,” “Cheer Wine” nor “Sherrie baby.” Advantage, Pontiac. This same rule applies to Hummer when applied to “Sichuan Heavy Industry Tengzhong” (sic). Advantage, Pontiac.
The history of dead automotive brands is deep. Very deep. It’s in the hundreds. Pontiac is just another dead fish on the pile. More negative value for Pontiac.
True enough, Ron. It’s probably dead as can be. But on the other hand, I DID read that a load of dealers ARE trying to buy it.
Pontiac IS part of “Old GM” and since it is the fiduciary responsibility of the bankruptcy court to get money for old GM properties, they will no doubt put the “brand” up for sale (there are no “Pontiac” factories per se). Likewise, 50% of NUMMI is likely to also go under the auction hammer. It’s pretty obvious that if someone can come up with money enough to buy 50% of NUMMI, they then will have also bought the rights to the Pontiac Vibe contract production, too. As well as potential additional deals with Toyota to supply whatever other cars Toyota chooses to make available.
I’ll be honest. Pontiac drivers always seem to be not the salt of the earth, but the likely candidates to be on reality “cop” tv shows.
Thing is, there are a lot of such folks living in trailer parks and rental “condos” ready to buy their next set of wheels so they can practice “driving” while texting and yakking on their frickin cell phones.
Burt Reynolds, Sally Field, Jerry Reed could be hired to go on the TEEE VEEEEEE and help sell the things.
Who builds them matters little; you can’t get much worse than recent Pontiacs, really, can you? (The NUMMI built Vibe being the exception that proves the rule, of course – being that it’s a Toyota and all).
Yet the damn brand still wouldn’t die until it was euthanized by GM and hived off as “no account.”
In fact, it still isn’t even dead – NUMMI will continue production of the Vibe for retail sale until August 2009, and the GM built G6 is going to continue on sale as a “fleet only” for awhile yet, too.
The other wild cards are Penske’s Saturn…. suddenly, if they could line up production of cars from contractors within and outside the US, they’d have TWO brands with two different clienteles to sell to (three, if you count SMART)
Menno: “Speaking of Mitsubishi, the US built Galant is quite “Pontiac-like” and sized much as the best-selling Pontiac (the G6). Perhaps a Vibe and a Mitsubishi Galant based Grand Prix? Why not throw in a Normal, Illinois Mitsubishi Eclipse and badge it as a Firebird? Why not even an Outlander rebadged as a Pontiac Safari? The vehicle even resembles the Vibe (on steroids). Mitsubishi sure could use the extra business…”
That’s an intriguing idea. The Galant is a lot like the G6, and to be sure Mitsu is experienced in building cars with another firm’s badge on them.
Or maybe it’d be like tying two stones together in the hope that then they’ll float.
I found the latest news article about the Michigan dealer group which is trying to buy Pontiac from GM (and which had been turned down prior to GM’s bankruptcy).
GM may have shot themselves in the foot (again!?!) by not including Pontiac in the “New GM” – since it is now part of “Old GM” it WILL go up for sale.
Here’s the link.
http://www.bharatentrepreneurs.com/2009/06/08/dealer-group-seeks-to-buy-gms-pontiac-brand/
Looks like these guys are serious about trying to actually save jobs IN MICHIGAN, my home state. They want to buy a defunct factory and BUILD PONTIACS and sell them.
Perhaps NUMMI and Mitsubishi would be happy to sell them cars on an interim basis until they can get operational. It’s going to take more than a few months to develop and engineer cars, tool up a plant, manufacture dies, contract suppliers, emissions certify, crash certify, set-up parts operations, hire and train (presumably UAW people in Michigan) and set-up a dealership network as well as advertising.
Looks like as much of a job as cleaning the aegean stables, if you ask me.
The “flood method” of immediate success may revolve around my ideas of buying in other North American built cars on a temporary basis.
NUMMI built Vibe
Mitsu built Grand Prix (rebadged Galant)
Mitsu built Firebird (rebadged Eclipse)
The 3.8 V6 powered Galant is apparently hellaciously fast in Ralliart form. The equivalent Grand Prix could be badged as the “Super Duty”. No point in sullying the GTO badge with another 4 door bodyshell.
An independent, Michigan based Pontiac COULD come out of ashes – in a couple of years.
GM plants ready to be jettisoned include:
Grand Rapids, Michigan stamping
Pontiac, MIchigan assembly (trucks on frames but the plant could be refitted)
Massena, New York castings
Livonia, Michigan engine production
Columbus, Ohio warehouse/parts distribution center
Farm out the engineering work (as Studebaker did after it closed South Bend) and depending upon circumstances, by autumn 2010 (at the very earliest), Michigan built Pontiacs could be rolling… especially if GM would sell rights & dies for the G6 line as an anchor for the new company.
Way back in the day, there was the Pontiac Station Wagon. I remember that my dad drove it mercilessly with great vigor. Then he would go home and watch Nigel Mansell while drinking beer. There were many adventures with the station wagon. Some of my first memories of “whoa these vehicle things are kind of fast” are from the Pontiac (and the driving style of my father).
If they (Pontiac) really, really make a go of it – they might survive. Have some of those Australian cars in there too, ok? Or is that not going to happen anymore?
Pontiac still has potential to be good, but GM’s too inept to get it done. Buick’s name is only good in China, and it should have been kept for that market, but Pontiac should have been kept over Buick for the NA market. There is still some decent brand equity in the Pontiac name, whereas the Buick brand is thought to be for blue hairs. GM has once again screwed the pooch.
Does Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac still have value as brands?
A while back I posted an interview with someone who specializes in reviving orphan or distressed consumer brands, and he said all those brands still have some value. Even Studebaker still has some level of brand equity.
superbadd75: “Pontiac should have been kept over Buick for the NA market.”
I see your point. But Pontiac is Oakland’s offspring, while Buick is how General Motors began. Oh, dear me, there I go again getting sentimental about the birth of the American car industry. You’ll have to excuse me; I’ve never really gotten over the death of Oldsmobile.
My personal take?
While I would agree that the Pauncho (sic) brand has some equity, the minuses are larger than the pluses.
It has been 30 yearsish since they had real performance cred.
They have filled rental lots since then.
There recent decent offerings are aussie-little domestic cred.
The only younger people that equate Pontiac and performance are (sorry) way deep in redneck land (they think a red Bland Am is a “sports car”).
This group will not be buying many new cars-from anybody.
A new effort will be better off with a new name.
These dealers trying to “build” and sell more Paunchos need to ask themselves “and then what?”
Current product is a failure, R & D for the future comes from…?
Just some thoughts.
Bunter
In keeping Buick, they’re finding it increasingly difficult to keep Buick from stepping all over Cadillac’s market. From what I’ve read, the Alpha RWD platform that was supposed to be the basis for the sub-CTS car to battle the BMW 3 series is now DEAD…there will be no 7 Series/S Class battling flagship as the Zeta platform is t0o heavy. Then of course there’s the market for Buick above the Lacrosse. If Cadillac goes FWD for a sub CTS would be another BLS bomb?
I pity the new GM…they had an excellent opportunity to do well.
If Mitsubishi produces Pontiacs, do you think they’ll all have the cool gray knobs and orange instrument panel lighting? You know, keep the 80’s fighter pilot thing Pontiac had going? Maybe add some side cladding for old-times sake?
As much as I poke fun, Pontiac had its moments, and I’m sad to see it go, just as I was (truly) sad to see Oldsmobile go.
There exists this undeniable divide within GM’s recent and not so recent history, where on the one hand you have some really cool and relevant cars and on the other hand, complete abominations. Many examples are the same car but different model years (the older the model, true to GM form, typically the worse it became).
Strangely, the sales didn’t always correlate with the relative quality of the offering, bolstered either by fleet sales, fire sales, or the overall bad taste of the American consumer. And all too often, the sales gave way to corporate disillusionment that fanned the flames of bad product offerings by reinforcing bad decisions and bad design.
But as I contemplate recent Japanese offerings (Venza?), I being to think this brand and design confusion is a symptom of size, more than American bureaucracy. The larger the companies grow, the sillier they become.
So maybe an independent Pontiac, should such an entity come to be, will blossom into a focused, viable offering.
Maybe pigs will fly.
I’ve got 2 ponchos right now, including a NUMMI Vibe. Love to see Pontiac stay around. Though it might be difficult to get the late Jerry Reed to do anymore TV spots.
Yeah, you’re right gator. My mistake. I’d forgotten that Jerry passed away awhile back.
Plus wow – Burt Reynolds really truly should have let his face stay his natural age instead of falling for the Hollywood plastic surgery routine. Wow… but then again he’d be a great spokesman for Pontiac if they bring back the plastic cladding…
(rimshot)
Real simple solution. Buy the Pontiac brand, find a half decent RWD platform, slap a big, powerful engine in it, and sell for dirt cheap. Won’t need a fancy interior or outstanding handling, just insane 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Portion of profits go to CAFE fines. If you’re the only company selling cars capable of sub 5 second 0-60 times for 15 grand or less you’re going to be profitable.
Instead of a manufacturer, I’d rather see Pontiac become something like Shelby Automotive, Roush, or Saleen where the main business is providing major performance/styling overhauls to already existing vehicles.
Then, maybe after a few years, they could come out with a special edition car.
Friend of mine rented a brand new Malibu last week. Had 800 klicks on it, a mere 500 miles.
Went about 5 km and steam poured out of the hood. Lost all the coolant.
What perception would Rattner and our equally dumb prime minister Harper (who has Canadians paying twice as much per capita as Americans to keep this sorry company alive) want him to have about New GM’s quality?
It’s all quite depressing.
So, someone will buy Poncho and possibly make it a performance oriented brand – exactly what GM should have done with it.
Someone will buy it, and that someone will be New GM.
I don’t think the POS or whatever the acronym for the presidents auto-czar workfarce is, will allow New GM to buy any of Old GM, jg.
Unless of course, it is via the secret entrance behind a bushes and through the tunnel into the secret swinging book case…. like via RoDae of Romania, part-owned by GMDaewoo, which is part-owned by GMHolden of Australia, which is somehow owned by GM perhaps via GM-Canada….
In which case you’d be seeing Romanian built Daewoos sold as Pontiacs.
I’d rather see it dead! As would any pistonhead.
@ ajla:
I was thinking the same thing. Adding a body kit, ie. plastic cladding, and additional performance to an already existing vehicle is in keeping with Pontiac’s legacy. Also, being a make to order shop could help them scale the business to be profitable.
The dumped parts of GM, Opel, Saturn, and Pontiac, are more likely to survive than the “surviving” parts still under the failed management still in place at GM.
Bring back a retro 1966 GTO to rival FORDS retro Mustang CHRYSLERS Challenger and GM Camaro, go with a 4 cylinder Tempest 6 cylinder Lemans with a V8 option and a V8 SS GTO version.