I’ve never hid my contempt for run-flat tires. And for good reason. When testing a BMW 5-Series equipped with the technology, the driving experience was so bad I returned it to the dealer to try a car without the tough-as-nails (and then some), tram-lining donuts. Sure enough, the “normal” tires delivered infinitely superior, brand-faithful ride and handling. I also got caught-up in the Honda Odyssey – Michelin Pax class action debacle; I shelled-out huge money for two sets of tires so stiff they’d make French soufflé makers envious. Autoweek recently reported that run-flats are in retreat, accounting for less then one percent of the U.S. market. That’s one percent too many—and not just because of the expense or compromised driving dynamics. As this email from rspaight indicates:
I bought a 3-series recently, and it was equipped with a set of run-flats and nowhere to put a spare. BMW M cars have conventional tires, no spare, and a can of tire sealant. Same with Porsches. Corvettes? Run-flats. MINIs? Run-flats. As I leafed through the latest Car & Driver, I saw that both the Taurus SHO and new Cadillac SRX said “none” in the space next to “Spare Tire.” It seems that spare tires are becoming increasingly vestigial as car evolution progresses. Is it crazy to think this is over-optimistic? The attached photo shows the mayhem my friend’s Cavalier experienced in an Interstate construction zone a couple of weeks ago. I don’t think either run-flats or a can of sealant would have helped much in this case. My friend spent ten minutes putting on the donut and was safely on his way with his wife and kids. As it should be?
The first thing Vette owners do is ditch the run-flats, put on decent tires, and carry a repair kit and a 12V compact compressor. Seems like the designers planned for this when they included a neat bin in back that seems tailor made for this.
The Run-craps are just flat out (yah -bad pun) terrible riding. Pep Boys 4 for a $200 tires are an improvement.
For my wife? Actually, I think they are perfect for her. I’d feel a lot better if she did have them on. Quite truthfully, she wouldn’t feel the difference between a flat and a good tire. It’s perfect for her.
One last note, go outside of urban areas and you won’t find shops that 1) stock them, or 2) repair them.
Spare tires? Does anyone use those these days?
I’ve had ONE flat, and I had no chance of getting the tire off myself. I last had the winter rim+-tire ->summer rim+tire change done by a shop who put so much torque on the bolts that I could jump up and down on the end of the lug wrench it wouldn’t budge. I had a friend who weighed 50 or 60 pounds more than me jump on it and he couldn’t budget it either.
I had it towed & the tire replaced at the shop. I think if most motorcyclists can go w/o a spare (save perhaps those URAL’s with sidecars), no reason motorists can’t.
That still doesn’t excuse putting runflats on a car…
I have to admit – I have experienced the benefit of run-flats first hand. Long story short – I blew out two of my tires on one of those ‘half circle’ raised domes that contain reflectors. Both tires on the right hand side.
And then proceeded to drive 10 miles home. Of course, replacing the damage was frighteningly expensive, but the convenience of getting home was nice enough to make me at least not despise them.
I have runflats on my 3 Series this time. I don’t care for them, frankly. They’re not as quiet as the Michelin Pilots that I had on my last 3 Series, don’t handle as well in the dray and are slippery in the wet.
I had my first experience with the dilemma of runflats not too long ago in my company parking lot. I came out of the office and upon starting my car, got a “flat tire” indicator. Now what?
The BMW version doesn’t tell you which tire is low, and you can’t tell by looking with R/F’s. Great.
You have no spare. Great.
Your only option is to drive on a tire that you know is bad (well actually, you could call BMW’s excellent roadside assistance if you’re willing to wait an hour). So off you go on a tire you KNOW is bad. How bad? Anybody’s guess. You go to the nearest gas station and put air in all four tires and drive home. And you wait. Was it just low air pressure? Will a tire be flat in the morning? It’ll be a week before you know if you really do have a flat or just had let the tire pressure get low. In the meantime, you’re driving on a tire that may be permanently damaged.
Even better – the tires don’t last as long as conventional tires. I’m on a lease this time. I know that I’ll have to replace the tires twice at considerable expense where as with conventional tires, I’d only replace them once.
So, all in all, I hate the damn things don’t care for them, and yes, this WILL affect my next car buying decision.
I prefer the spare tyre, old tech and all blah blah blah. Be it full size or space saver.
Down here, you can’t afford such kind of failure (as shown in the pic) and be stranded anywhere without a spare.
Also, I think it’s illegal for the manufacturer to sell a car without it.
The BMW version doesn’t tell you which tire is low, and you can’t tell by looking with R/F’s. Great.
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I’m not sure which version you are using, but the version I had told me beyond a shadow of a doubt which two tires it thought had issues. It was correct.
Also – what were you doing driving around without a tire pressure guage? The TPM system can fail – and I believe the BMW owners manual states that you should periodically check your tire pressure manually.
what were you doing driving around without a tire pressure gauge? The TPM system can fail – and I believe the BMW owners manual states that you should periodically check your tire pressure manually.
Yes, all true – guilty as charged…. but it happened… And what’s the point of a low tire pressure indicator if I have to use a gauge to check them anyhow?
Sure, the TPM can fail, but so can the transmission, and I don’t carry a spare for that.
I dont get run flats. A car can be driven several miles on flat tires. Not at highway speeds , but it can be driven to a safe location and changed. I have done it several times on different vehicles. If you drive slowly enough, often times the rim will not suffer any damage. Also, a wheel should never be mounted such that it cannot be changed with the equipment in the car.
Here is my issue with RF’s as a MINI driver with them.
When you get a flat, few shops will repair it (when perfectly repairable) due to ‘liability concerns’. No shops stock the tires. So you must pay extra to the tire overnighted on top of the ~$250 ea tire and you are still 2 maybe 3 days without a car.
Did I mention they ride/handle like crap?
I just carry can of fix-o-flat, 12v compressor, and flat repair kit now with regular tires of my choice.
“Yes, all true – guilty as charged…. but it happened… And what’s the point of a low tire pressure indicator if I have to use a gauge to check them anyhow?
Sure, the TPM can fail, but so can the transmission, and I don’t carry a spare for that.”
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Good point, but in any case the TPM typically doesn’t alert you to pressure fluctuations that aren’t higher than some threshold value. And although the tire won’t fail if its less than that threshold value – it will function less well.
“A car can be driven several miles on flat tires”
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I didn’t specify enough in my previous story that sold me on RF’s. I could stick my hand into my front tire through the gaping hole that I had torn into it. No non-rf tire would have been able to drive on that.
Having given my “RF’s” are great story – I will admit that the ride quality is a joke compared to non-RF’s.
I will not buy a car equipped with run-flats. Period. There are plenty of great cars on the market.
I have driven, back to back, runflat BMWs and BMW with normal tires. Runflats are less safe, not more safe than normal tires.
The problem is grip. Even in the dry runflats lose grip way too early. That would be ok if it really took some aggressive driving to kick it lose but that is just not so. Your normal driving on dry feels like spirited driving on wet if you have runflats. If you do runflats on the wet than it feels like you have a layer of ice beneath you.
The BMW M-division has is right: no runflat for you! I just don’t see it. The likelihood of having a flat tire in descent roads is very slim these days. The risk of derrapage, however, is permanent and constant.
Tires are the easiest part of a car to change/upgrade. I’ve driven a few cars with run flats, but never bought one. If I did, Tirerack would be my first phone call.
I feel the same way about “all season” (read three-season) tires. I run Yokohama summer tires or Blizzaks on my BMW 328i sedan. Give me performance and a good ride or winter traction.
I’ve carried flat fix in all my cars for 15 years — turns a 1/2 hour spare tire change into a 3 minute fix-and-go (especially on a highway, at night, when it’s raining).
Twotone
rehposolihp :“A car can be driven several miles on flat tires”
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I didn’t specify enough in my previous story that sold me on RF’s. I could stick my hand into my front tire through the gaping hole that I had torn into it. No non-rf tire would have been able to drive on that.
R, I drove the last flat, a separated tread blow out that took the entire outer circumference off the tire, over 5 miles to a Sears tire center. It was a slow bumpy ride grant you, but entirely possible
We’re sparetireless between my wife’s Bimmer on runflats and my RX-8 with the repair kit. The runflats perform adequately on her car in terms of ride and (sedate) handling. I’m not sold on the runflats but they were not a dealbreaker, especially since they won’t be too costly to replace being 16″ all-seasons. I couldn’t abide them as larger, faster-wearing (I autocross my car, to boot) performance tires, though.
A full-size spare would be nice, but is kind of an anachronism in this day and age of good roads, good tires, cell phones, roadside assistance, and overnight tire delivery. I’d rather takes my chances and fill the space (as I have) with a big subwoofer.
I bought an 06 325i that had the Bridgestone run-flats. I can safely say that I will NEVER own another car that has RFTs. EVER. The Bridgestones are HORRIBLE – lousy MPG, noisy, crummy ride, horrible dry traction and less-than-zero wet traction. One day, I was driving in the rain and making a u-turn (with bare steerage speed) and the car started fishtailing. Pirelli has PZero RFTs for my car and I’ve put those on, and they’re better, but still not great.
This will absolutely influence my next car purchase (in fact, I’m already chewing on dumping the 325i because of this)
BMW should be taken out back to the woodshed for putting these horrible tires on “The Ultimate Driving Machine”
I’m with Robstar on this one. In almost 30 years of driving, I’ve had two flat tires, and both times it was because I was being cheap and hadn’t replaced the tires when they were worn.
While highway blowouts are great for scary movie scenes, the truth is that they are rare. If you replace your tires when they get down to 3/16ths of an inch you should be fine.
I suspect that 90% of drivers can’t change a tire. Even if you know how, the nuts are torqued to tight most people who don’t spend 2 hours a day in the gym aren’t going to get them off anyhow.
Runflats are designed to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist.
There are instances where they can be useful, but I personally would rather have a spare tire (preferrably full size). The expense and ride quality just isn’t worth it to me. I would rather have them be optional on a car and if they’re ordered with the car, a different suspension comes with it that’s tuned for the run flats. Are you listening, BMW?
@andyinsdca:
Not sure if you have the 16″ all-seasons or not, but I’m not sure we can entirely blame the performance of the tires on the fact that they are runflats. The car is seriously under-tired on the 205/55 16’s. Perhaps the runflats exacerbate this. But our 2008 328i does not perform any worse than our old 2003 325i wagon on conventional tires of the same size.
Well, YMMV, but I’ve had 2 flats on a weekend, 500 miles or more from my destination, FULL-size spare the days. No RFT for me, hence no Bimmer. I’ve probably have had a total of 5 flats over the last 12 years. Over 40 years of driving, I know I have changed 6 tires, one rainy dark morning on the Mass Turnpike, one other time in M-B during a tropical rainstorm after holing the tire in a pothole. Darn 40-series tires.
If you don’t know how to change a tire, I don’t see why you are on the roads.
GF
Let’s see. You can either sacrifice the weight and space-eating lump to a spare spare tire that costs about more than a CAA/AAA membership (or more, in the case of a performance tire) which is a pain in the ass—if not outright dangerous—to change on a busy road, or you can buy a car with run-flats that cost several times what CAA/AAA does and don’t work well.
Or you can get CAA/AAA and have someone pick you up, change the tire for you, and possibly put you up in a hotel, pay for your vacation inconvenience, etc.
Spares and run-flats are, oddly, like training wheels. We don’t use bias-ply any more and tires generally last some time. Roadside assistance is cheap and quickly dispatched. Unless I lived somewhere truly godforsaken and I knew roadside was hours away at best, then perhaps I’d consider a spare.
Otherwise, screw it. Roadside all the way
The run flats are the weakest point of the 3 series. The ride on the E92 is much worse than on my previous E46 and the tires are outrageously expensive. The other problem is the range once deflated – that varies from 50 to 150 miles. When you drive long highway distances through rural areas that just doesn’t help you very much.
For city drivers this might be a useful technology but the buyer should at least have the option of a spare tire and no run flats.
We get flat/punctured tires often–probably averaging one every 10,000 driven miles or so. The cause is always the same: a long screw or nail from a construction site. Lots of residential construction near where I live, so this is a big issue. We run 17″ Dunlop summer runflats on our MINI Cooper S about half of the year, and 16″ Goodyear “all season” runflats on it the rest of the year. The 16s are much quieter and better handling than the 17s which will not be replaced. I dislike the runflats but will likely keep them on the MINI because my wife drives it most of the time and she commutes through an undesirable part of town. And, yes, you can drive a long way on them. I’ve repaired the runflats three times, using my own puncture and pull patch kit without removing the wheels.
I’ll avoid buying a car with runflats in the future, but it’s not a deal breaker.
+1 on nails from construction sites. My wife was a real estate broker, and take it from me, guys who build houses throw the nails around as if someone else was paying for them (true). If your job takes you into new housing developments (okay, not so much these days) you can count on the occasional nail puncture.
Roadside assistance is not quickly dispatched. I am a AAA member and waited 3 hours in the middle of San Jose, California once (it was for a dead battery, not flat tire, but no matter).
Robstar:
Spare tires? Does anyone use those these days?
I’ve had ONE flat, and I had no chance of getting the tire off myself. I last had the winter rim+-tire ->summer rim+tire change done by a shop who put so much torque on the bolts that I could jump up and down on the end of the lug wrench it wouldn’t budge. I had a friend who weighed 50 or 60 pounds more than me jump on it and he couldn’t budget it either.
I’m not as strong as I used to be so when I last tried to change a tire on my own at home I put a piece of electrical conduit over my lug wrench to extend my lever arm. I could not get the bolt to give, all I did was bend my lug wrench.
Thanks for all the replies.
The last time I had to change a tire (on my wife’s Protege5), the nuts were indeed torqued down so hard they were impossible to loosen with the stock wrench. AAA came out with a big honkin’ wrench, which allowed us to put on the spare.
Anyone out there with an E90/E92 3-series who’s replaced the RFTs? Did the ride/handling balance get goofy due to the suspension being “too soft” to compensate for the stiff RFTs?
After this weekend run flat tires sound good to me. Coming home Saturday I noticed some tire tread shooting up in front of my new car. Discovered it was my fancy-ass tires coming apart.
Mastercraft tires from Cooper tire. of couse because I only had 8 thousand miles on these tires I didn’t have the jack handle to get them
off. and oh yea, I live in Arizona and it was only 101 degrees out, thank god for auto club , who only took 3 and a half hours to get to me.
and to add inselt to injury, no warrenty on the tires because the dealer installed them.
I had GREAT luck with gooey rope tire plugs (looks like a huge needle with a sliced ear and a handle on the tip, you pull the rope through, stuff the tool into the hole, and quickly pull the handle out). Takes about a minute to install the plug, no glueing, and the tire is still good. Supposedly it’s an emergency fix, but I have a 3-year-old tire that’s holds air like new, after getting plugged.
You do need a compressor, but a good portable compressor is advisable anyway – you can check your pressure and add some air at any moment.
I had blowouts a couple times, but both of these have been caused by EXTREME tire maintenance negligence.
In a small car, the security of a spare tire doesn’t outweigh the extra 30lbs or so worth of jack and spare and the lost interior room. Bigger cars and trucks probably need one, but not compacts. As for runflats, the expense and the craptacity makes the choice a no-brainer.
Never actually driven a car with runflats so canät really comment on them from the driving point of view, but run-flats are still nicer than just a bottle to fix regular tires and no spare. They almost never work, and then only if the hole is small and not on the sidewall. I’ve dealt with several cases where a family is somwhere in Lapland for example, and have a puncture. Five people in the car, the foam bottle sealant thing does not work, the closest tire shop is 150km away, and it’s a friday evening so they are closed until monday. Whooptidoo. Towing to the nearest workshop 150km away at night and a rental car over the weekend is awfully expensive compared to 10 minutes replacing a tire.
Also around here cars with runflats usually have normal tires on the winter, no runflats. And not even a repair kit. Some insurance companies wont even cover towing as the terms say that you have to have a spare or at least a repair kit in the car.
As for wheels that are hard to remove, i always put some copper grease on the hub and nuts so they are very easy to remove comapared to not using grease. And no, the bolts don’t loosen up even with the grease. Winter+salt and no grease= a sledgehammer is needed to remove the wheel. Or driving around and braking with the bolts loosened. I’ve had to do both.
Runflats are better than having regular tires with no spare, only a bottled repair kit. The latter approach seems to be all too common on new cars though… A spare is usually still optional though, but guess how many people pay extra to have a spare?
One year in on a 328i with Bridgestone run flats, both winter and summer. Performance is fine for me even compared to the 2005 E46 BMW with Continentals and Good Year non run flats I drove before.
One flat in the winter set up that I had replaced at the dealer as the tire was ruined. The TPM only activated its alarm when the tire was down to 12 psi by which time the sidewall/tread connection had been compromised.
Replacement cost at a Toronto area BMW dealer for a new Blizzak was $550.
That is my complaint about run flats. Too expensive and not enough choice both as to tire brands and shops. Are you gonna trust Joe’s Tire Heaven to mount the run flat even if he says it’s no problem? I read in Bimmer forums previously that much of the run flat troubles originated with BMW dealers/techs who didn’t know/couldn’t handle the newer tech that run flats demand.
Solution, short of buying your own spare etc. and losing your trunk to same, is BMW tire insurance. The service adviser at BMW locally informed me that they will have a new tire only, rather than the current tire and wheel, insurance available in a month or so for about half price. $400+ rather than $800+.
Insurance would be cheaper than a new OEM run flat plus mounting and balancing at BMW.
As for flat frequency: who knows? In 20 years of GM cars I had three flats all reparable. In four years of BMWs I’ve had four flats with two of the tires destroyed. Something in the air? Global warming effect?
I live in the snow belt and ride a set of winters 6 months a year and summers the other 6. Repeat for 2 cars.
The idea of using run-flats in this scenario would be absurd – well bankrupting is a better word. I’m not even sure what performance snow tires are available in run-flat, if at all.
I bought a 2009 RAV4 partly because it has a full sized spare. AND even though it had been a long time since I had a flat tire, I’ve now had 4 or 5 on the RAV4. I was plenty glad to have the full sized spare.
It will be a cold day in hell when I buy a car with no spare of any kind!!!
30 or 40 years ago, spare tires were a necessity. Tires blew all the time, and they seldom lasted more than a year or two if they didn’t.
Furthermore, cell phones didn’t exist.
These days, tires last for multiple years and seldom blow. When you have an automotive problem, you can pull over and call AAA. I think spares are an anachronism, and run-flats solve a problem that really does not exist.
Had ’em on my Z4. Horrible. Low grip, heavy, noisy, tramlining – terrible idea. Give me a spare.
One of the great things about the VW’s I’ve owned recently is that they all have full-size spare tires. Part of educating my teenaged sons about driving has been changing tires. On a family road trip a few years ago while my oldest was driving I tested him by saying “Your car just got a flat, stop in a safe place and change it.” I observed while he safely parked, jacked, and changed the wheel.
Is it any wonder why humans are so helpless? Why am I one of the few, if perhaps the only parent doing these things?
–chuck
“Is it any wonder why humans are so helpless? Why am I one of the few, if perhaps the only parent doing these things?”
Because, like so many have said in previous posts, modern tires go flat very very rarely these days and even if they do you will likely not be able to change them without air tools anyways.
psarhjinian : Or you can get CAA/AAA and have someone pick you up, change the tire for you, and possibly put you up in a hotel, pay for your vacation inconvenience, etc.
That sounds great! I really didn’t want to go to my intended destination after an easy thirty minute tire replacement anyway.
I wouldn’t buy a car without a spare tire unless there were no other reasonable options.
I actually feel sorry for those who have to drive somewhere, wait around, and pay money to let monkeys overtighten their lug nuts, instead of spending an hour at home to rotate tires himself. I’ll add that, with my extra set of tires for winter, I never have to drop off more than a set of wheels at the tire shop, so I’m never at the mercy of their impact-wrench-induced incompetence.
Yes! Kill! Kill! Kill!
My 335 has them, and they suck. I test drove the Odyssey with them back in the day (If I remember correctly, you needed to get them to get a sunroof, or something. Talk about easy pickings for Toyota :) )
On the 335, they make the ride crashy, and the whole car feel slow witted. A bit like Mohammad Ali in ski boots. You can feel there is potential in the chassis, but the stiff, heavy footwear is holding it back.
They are also fragile. Hit any sharp midcorner bump at any kind of speed, and the outside sidewalls go limp, bulge, and the tire needs replacement. And I’m not talking about driving like Baruth, either. As bad as this is on a sedan, exactly who decided these were a good choice for a supposed off roader, like the X5, is truly perplexing. I can just imagine letting some air out for a rough section, and then getting to a spot where most of that 6,000lb vehicle’s weight rests on one a rock via of these sidewalls. An expensive ouch, for sure.
Possibly to reduce the crashiness, suspension bushings seem to have been softened to the point where it affects the cars tracking ability in less than glass smooth sweepers, where the 335 feels like a 70’s Cadillac compared to the M3.
And all that to save someone the hassle of pushing the button one of those goo inflaters? Once every two years or so, on average? Or 90% of the time, even just calling AAA. Somebody needs to get their priorities in order.
I remember thinking when the Mini was the first car ever to have runflats what a great idea it was in principle, why should you carry around spare parts. I have blown more coolant hoses than tyres, but I don’t carry them around.
The execution seems a little poor in most cases, probably accentuated by how horrible the ride is on even a standardly shod BMW. But nevertheless basically the idea of a tyre that is impervious to going flat is sound.
I’m shocked to read that so many of the B and B cannot change a tire. As for roadside assistance, meh, I have AAA Gold, but can deal with a flat waaay faster than their response time. As for my fellow Bay Staters, AAA does not cover the Mass Pike. 2 towing outfits have exclusive rights.
Yes, we have cellphones, and fix-a-flat and 24 hour towing services, but a good spare is something you’ll appreciate driving through the mountains in the middle of the night, stuck in a dead-zone, with the nearest town a hundred miles or more away.
Granted, that only happened to me once… but it sucked.
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Personally, runflats over fix-a-flat… but regular tires and a spare over either. I even bought an extra space saver, just in case, for those extra long trips. ;)
And you should never let a tire shop overtorque your lugnuts. It’s just not good for them.