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Have you ever looked at something and just are not able to see the point of it? The Simpsons, Kim Bauer, RC Cola and Michael Bay’s career all spring to mind, but right now I’m more confused than a chameleon standing next to a rainbow. The Wall Street Journal reports that Chrysler are raising production of their minivans at their plant in Windsor, Ontario. More precisely, they are raising production of their right hand drive, diesel minivans for export (naturally). This will be the first time RHD minivans are built at Chrysler’s Canadian plant.
This sounds like good news for the Windsor plant and Canada’s value of exports, but it also raises basic “marketing” and “supply and demand” issues. You see, the areas of the world where they drive on the left side (ergo, they have right hand drive cars) are the United Kingdom, Ireland, Southern Africa, South East Asia, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.
So exactly who in these countries is going to want these cars? The UK and Ireland are mature markets which are eschewing big cars, while the Australia & New Zealand markets have to be too small to justify shipping minivans across the world. Japan? Ask Ford and GM how well they’re faring there. South East Asia might have some potential, but given the higher cost to build and export from Canada, it doesn’t sound like a viable venture either. A bit like Chrysler in general.
42 Comments on “Chrysler Exporting Canadian Minivans?...”
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Shipping costs are a pretty small factor in the end.
As I recall, Magna Steyr has been building these up to now in Graz, Austria, and I would bet Chrysler can build them for less in Windsor.
Bahamas, U.S. Virgin Islands and maybe Jamaica, not completely sure, also drive on the wrong side (oooops) make that the left hand side of the road but they seem content with old U.S. LHD beaters. I guess these are not big markets for new vehicles though mini-vans would be good for taxis and airport limo types of uses in vacation lands. Also, there is a surprising market in the U.S. for RHD vehicles used for rural mail delivery, though these applications prefer used vehicles.
What th009 said. They have sold some quantity of these things for years in various places, evidently they have decided it is cheaper to build them in-house than to subcontract Magna to do it. Any word from Austria?
Perhaps Magna is trying to clear the decks for thier possible aquisition of Opel? Or are they out of the running?
This is not news. It was already known and being planned for when I toured the Windsor plant last November during the Chrysler Minivan 25th Anniversary celebration.
This is also not accurate, by dint of omission; all BUX and CKD minivan production is being moved from Graz to Windsor. That means RHD and LHD, diesel and petrol.
This is also not confusing (to anyone but Cammy, as it seems):
So exactly who in these countries is going to want these cars?
Um…the same people who’ve wanted and bought them in relatively high volumes since the international release of the LHD Chrysler minivan in 1987 and the RHD release in 1996.
I noted this in our local Ontario Press and forwarded the article to TTAC editor yesterday, when the people in the UK and Ireland buy these pieces of Junk, I am sure they will be impressed with the lack of quality and lots of problems from lousy transmissions to Electrical problems and Rust
too, but I suspect the CAW in Windsor Ontario are very pleased!
Ouch, Daniel, a little rough, man.
Chrysler makes lots of RHD versions of its Caliber, Avenger, Sebring, 300, Jeeps, Minivans. Strangely, they are more ‘international’ in that aspect than GM or Ford – one product for the whole world – left of right.
I wonder if they allocate any RHD production for US Mail delivery? Those old Subaru Legacy and Saturn SW wagons have got to be dying off…..
The Simpsons: it might be a shell of its former self but that show is an all-time classic in American television. Was once a great show.
This Simpsons is brilliant.
Daniel J Stern,
The story came from the WSJ which was posted on the 19/08/2009. I merely passed my opinion over it.
In the UK, the first half of 2008, Chrysler achieved sales 10716 units across ALL their line up.
In the same period, the Vauxhall Zafira sold 31424 units.
Well, there’s a rosy future if ever I saw one….
So exactly what’s the problem here?
I bet UE is more expensive to build these things.
I don’t like this generation, but previous generations looked far better than their european counterparts. Specially the Fiat/Peugeot/Citröen/Lancia. This one still does, by the way.
I can’t believe you compared the simpsons to a Chrysler minivan! Blasphemy!!!
Right you are Geo Levecque the CAW is pleased. I would have to imagine that the Ontario taxpayer,some of them anyway would also be pleased.
Does anyone else see the Wonder Bread logo?
http://s2.thisnext.com/media/230×230/Wonder-Bread_88D22C33.jpg
As your friendly GM employee, GM builds RHD versions of North American vehicles in countries closer to their point of use such as in the Port Elizabeth, South Africa plant, and Holden, Australia plant.
…and God forbid we should have a Diesel minivan exported south to us. It might even be something worth buying. Rule #2: Don’t sell what people might jump up and down about (ex: VW Polo, a nobrainer after (and before) the MINI). Rule #1: Sell gormless cars nobody can get excited about.
How could anyone not see the point of the simpsons?
Beat me to it Christy. Thats a big loaf of wonder.
I guess they can’t sell a diesel minivan here in Canada because the resulting stampede to the dealership might get people trampled to death! Dammit, Dammit, Dammit (Where are my meds?)
Also driving on the left are India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, plus a bunch of smaller countries.
“Ask Ford and GM how well they’re faring there.”
The Astro van has cult like status in Japan. Don’t know if it sold in any significant numbers, but they are crazy about it. I heard that the xB was a sort of copy of it in a smaller form factor of course.
Anyway I think it’s funny that some people say “Why bother trying – they only sell xxx (small) number of cars there”. Then if that manufacturer pulls out of the market, the same people will say “No wonder they aren’t doing well, they don’t even try to sell in xyz market/country”. Sometimes you just can’t win.
I have to say that I really don’t think this is a bad idea.
Chrysler is able to move a fair number of vans globally, and many of the RHD markets (about 75 or so) are quite large. Indonesia, the fourth most populous country in the world, is RHD. Pakistan is also a huge market, and southern Africa is nothing to laugh at. And cumulatively the Caribbean accounts for a fairly good sized car market too.
Since the vehicle is already produced in RHD form, I don’t see where the huge harm is in building more cars. Even for Chrysler, I think it’d be unlikely that they’d be increasing production if they were way over supplied.
Also, The Simpsons is fantastic. And RC Cola makes Diet Rite, which is sweetened with delicious Splenda.
I have to say that I really don’t think this is a bad idea.
Is not at all. They’re f-ing cash strapped/bankrupt/almost dead. What they’re to do, build gazillion factories to assemble 5000 units x year?
Hell NO.
If they get better they might, but right now this just plain makes sense. To use their current installed capacity.
Add me to the “why isn’t there a diesel Caravan in North America” crowd. It makes no sense, especially in Canada. Canadians love the Made in Windsor Caravans, and they also love VW diesels. It looks like the current diesel is made by VM Motori, but since they’re building (very few) Routans for VW, it seems like they could work out a deal with VW for engines. Chrysler would have a waiting list, just like the Jetta TDI wagon. Dumbasses…
I remember in the late 60’s AMC built a big order of RHD Ambassador sedans for postal use. I read that the reason they got the bid was that they were already tooled up and building them for export.
Chrysler has been making RHD TJs for a while. I’m not sure if they stopped recently but they were going up to at least the end of the DCX era.
Years ago they used a VM diesel in both the minivans and the Dakota pickups. Never sold the diesel Dak in North America either. Unless they’ve done some serious updating that I haven’t heard about it wouldn’t pass EPA for US sales now anyway.
Blame California. The VM Motori engine won’t meet the diesel standard set by Cali and it looks like Chryco won’t get one that will.
To be fair, I doubt they want to go anywhere near MB and it looks like VW can’t produce enough for themselves let alone anyone else.
Have you ever looked at something and just are not able to see the point of it? The Simpsons
The Simpsons is primarily a satire on American culture, you probably have to live here to get some of the finer points of the gags. Similarly when I visit the UK I can not understand why people laugh at The Royle Family or Little Britain, I do not have a reference to the pop culture to understand most of the humor.
Chrysler is able to move a fair number of vans globally, and many of the RHD markets (about 75 or so) are quite large. Indonesia, the fourth most populous country in the world, is RHD.
Surely there is more to it than RHD/LHD ? Don’t vehicles have to be built for specific markets in terms of safety standards, emissions, equipment levels etc. So shouldn’t it be possible to determine which RHD country the vehicles are destined for ?
This is not news. It was already known and being planned for when I toured the Windsor plant last November during the Chrysler Minivan 25th Anniversary celebration.
A lot has changed in Chrysler since last November. I would think little things like bankruptcy and a change of ownership would have put plans for any near or far term manufacturing changes up for scrutiny.
sitting@home, this makes sense no matter which way you slice it. They have the extra capacity in Windsor, no point paying Magna Steyr more to make them in Austria when you can use your own capacity and do it here.
Really, this isn’t a surprise at all and the fact that some people are questioning this decision makes me wonder.
well, CommanderFish,
ppl just questioning this move by chrysler, coz to be really prudent, wouldnt they be better off to lay down n die? these baby steps, lets move our production to our own facilities, whats it gonna accomplish? just prolong the pain and suffering.
i trully only hope fiat doesnt get burned. i like fiat. chrysler on the other hand can FOAD.
The Simpsons is funniest show on TV, and that’s the point of it.
CommanderFish, yes it does make sense but Chrysler have just passed through an event horizon where activities before are disassociated from activities after. My point was that just because they were planning this last November doesn’t mean they have to carry through with it. Someone in the new management must have looked at the changes and let it continue because they too thought there was money to be made with it.
The Long Wheel Base version of the previous Wrangler (TJ) was also offered in RHD. They are popular for rural postal routes that see a lot of snow.
It it too bad that Chrysler won’t spend the $50-100M to get the VM Diesel to meet US emissions standards. They only gave the USDM a bit of a tease with the 05-06 run of Liberty CRDs.
The VM in the Wrangler would fix the problem of the anemic low end torque in the current gas engine.
It would put the Dakota in seperate class by itself. A 2WD with a manual could achieve 30mpg.
@sitting@home:
Don’t vehicles have to be built for specific markets in terms of safety standards, emissions, equipment levels etc. So shouldn’t it be possible to determine which RHD country the vehicles are destined for?
Not so much, no. Most of the rest of the world outside North America uses the international ECE (“European”) safety and emission standards. There are sometimes minor differences in vehicle equipment for different markets, but most of these are due to market preferences rather than regulations.
Diesel powered light vehicles in the US remain an almost vanishingly small niche market. The latest generation of diesels clean enough to meet US emission requirements seem to give up some of diesel’s traditional fuel economy advantage.
Meanwhile, gas/electric hybrid technology is still on an improving price:performance curve. That is why Honda, for example, shelves its plans for US market diesels just a few months ago.
The combination of RHD and diesel leans toward this going to the UK, not Austrailia or New Zealand. Obviously this isn’t going to Japan or India.
In the UK the chavs do have a lot of kids, as do the immigrants.
Or maybe the post office is just looking for something fuel efficient.
ChristyGarwood :
Does anyone else see the Wonder Bread logo?
Absotively, posilutely. The first thought that came into my mind. So this is the white bread of vehicles. Not exactly news, and a strange way to make me want to buy one . . .
once upon a time, I had a stickshift minivan, a 1992 Plymouth Voyager. Got 27-30mpg. I sorta liked it. I’d buy one again, especially if it had a Diesel.
Diesel’s Engine Cars don’t fly too well in North America, they are still very dirty even if some Companies like VW and Mercedes have them in Europe as well as others, in most of Europe including the UK they don’t have the same Polution controls we have here, then again if you have a Diesel vehicle who is going to service it? Maybe your nearest Farm Implement dealer who sell Diesel Tractors, not your every day Corner Garage that’s for sure.
yes it does make sense but Chrysler have just passed through an event horizon where activities before are disassociated from activities after.…
Don’t you wish we all got one “mulligan” in life? We should all be so lucky.
Down here these things are indecently expensive. They sell ’em for around USD 75 000!!! So it’s a very rich person’s car. Their depreciation though is astronomical, which make them relatively attractive in the used market. They are well liked and admired but seldom seen, bought or traded. And Kia’s Carnival stole all their market as they are sold at around USD 50 000. Anyway, larger families, which need a car that can carry 7 people, usually make do w/ Chevy’s Zafira, Fiat’s Doblò or just stuff themselves into even smaller cars.
@th008
As I recall, Magna Steyr has been building these up to now in Graz, Austria, and I would bet Chrysler can build them for less in Windsor.
Austrian production ended in 2007. The current generation minivans have never been made in Austria.
The current generation of export minivans was being made in St. Louis South until it was closed last year. now Windsor makes all Minivan combinations spread out over three shifts.
Contrary to what you may believe, there is quite the market overseas for these minivans. Chrysler sells every one they export.
It’s so easy to bash Chrysler when you specualte without reading any other facts first.