TTAC Commentator eggsalad writes:
In the 1950’s, everyone smoked. Car manufacturers installed electric cigarette lighters in every car. Not long after, a Very Smart Person took advantage of this universality and designed the Cigarette Lighter Plug. It was a brilliant way to get 12 volt power to all manner of accessories, from CB radios to cell phone chargers. Then folks stopped smoking. So many that car manufacturers eliminated the cigarette lighter as standard equipment. Some now offer an “ashtray delete” option. As drivers have all manner of accessories—GPS, radar detectors, Zunes, Nintendo DS, etc.—that the lighter socket itself remains. Now it’s just called a “power outlet.” Problem is, the 12 volt power outlet and its corresponding plug are absurdly large for their current functionality.
One manufacturer needs to lead the way in setting a new standard. There are plenty of already-existing connectors from which to choose. AS we can’t expect the manufacturers to get together and establish a new standard, somebody needs to be the first to pick a new socket design and run with it. There are connectors that are small enough that three or four of them could occupy the dashboard real estate currently eaten up by one cigarette lighter socket.
The free market will love it. Just like when CDs replaced cassettes, people will need to replace their existing power cords. At the very least, people will buy adapters to turn the new standard socket into a cigarette lighter-sized connector to continue using existing cables.
Step up, car companies! Who wants to be first? Oh, and then we can talk about a “standard” EV interface.
USB, anybody? Any car I’d buy, any stereo I’d purchase, has to have it.
For a fraction of a second I thought you had found a picture of me in my high school days (front seat guy).
It would be nice if every new car could power a DVD player, a fridge, a fan for when the car is parked (to get the heat out), and a computer along with all the related accessories you typically need when on the road.
One of these days I’m going to equip my Insight this way.
This is good post, good idea. I have often wondered why is it necessary for me to have to untangle a mess of cables and find the correct one to plug into the sole cigarette lighter outlet to charge phone or run GPS or charge blackberry in car. And the outlet is not convenient to top of dashboard.
Im not sure what it should look like but standard power supply with numerous simultaneous connections is needed.
I suppose I could hardwire a cable to run up inside the dash, and have it dangle on top somewhere, for GPS. Not pretty.
USB is a good idea. It already exists.
Main question about it is: Can it stand 20-30A?
Some sort of round DIN connector could also do. Or a miniplug, like the one used by laptop chargers.
my wife’s jeep already has an inverter and a standard household outlet. That works pretty well for us.
The Cigarette lighter outlet is beyond huge for the purpose it now serves.
In my Volvo 245, I have a Belkin USB adapter that fits in the cigarette lighter hole. The best part about it is that it is black and flush with the dash. If it weren’t for the bright blue indicator light (and the fact that my car is 21 years old) you might think it was part of the dash.
That combined with my tape adapter gives me built-in iPod/Phone integration and charging, making the ol’ ovloV more technologically advanced than a car with a CD player. :-)
USB is a good idea. It already exists.
Main question about it is: Can it stand 20-30A?
According to the spec, maximum load for a single device is 1.8A, which is in dedicated power supply mode (no data communication), aka “battery charging mode.” Specs are here.
That’s per port, of course. You could have a bunch of ports.
Amen to this idea, Robert…as a “road warrior” I have often wondered why we’re still tied to the old fashioned cigarette lighter plugs. They don’t always provide reliable electrical contact, and I once had a Porsche with a lighter recepticle that had a mind of its own.
USB power recepticles are a good step in this direction; the size is right and there are a large number of devices already using (or easily adapted to) this standard.
Add two things to my wish list: First, a power recepticle (or two or three) located between the sun visors, or even in the rear view mirror. Second, for the recepticles located in a console or ashtray, the ability to close the lids of these bins while something is plugged in – and enough of a gap in the lid to let the cord hang out.
Enough of these cords spewing out of gaping holes in the console!
Careful to note: The “Power Outlets” based on cigarette lighter plugs have significantly lower current capacity than the original cigarette lighter sockets, so don’t plug anything in that draws more than 10 amps (or less – consult your owner’s manual).
That said, even the 10 amp (120 Watts) connector has to be larger than a “miniature” one due to the high current requirements – (a “USB-Style” connector can source 1/2 amp maximum @ 5VDC.)
A “standard” awaits, and will no doubt arrive along with 48V electrical systems. :-(
So what we really need is something small that can handle a pretty fair amount of current. USB is out. Imagine folks using the wrong USB cable (rated for 1.8 amps) to connect a device that requried 30…egads. I’m thinking of something along the lines of an RCA plug in size. They are fairly robust and don’t fall out, though tips on those type cables get mangled from time to time.
The Ford Flex offers a proper 110v power outlet. Sounds like the ideal solution for anything a USB can’t handle.
Micro USB was adopted as a standard charging plug earlier this year by all major cell phone manufacturers. Perhaps there’s hope after all.
USB won’t handle the current for anything other than some very low-power stuff. Perhaps a separate 12V 2 wire asssembly for power, and the standard USB for those things that need the serial interface along with some low-current power.
I still use the lighter. And maybe once a year i use the socket to charge the tomtom or my phone.
So what we really need is something small that can handle a pretty fair amount of current. USB is out.
This may be a dumb question but what do we plug in these days that uses “a pretty fair amount of current“? I can’t really think of anything
A radar detector, an iPod, a GPS, a laptop – what else are you plugging into the dash these days?
For 95% of people 4 or 5 USB outlets scattered around the dash and visor area would run everything.
In any case for a decade or so, you could also retain the cigarette lighter for those who still DO light cigarettes and who also want to plug in waffle irons, tasers, etc….
Why not a standard power outlet. Some manufactureres offer them on SUV’s and Trucks, but most cars don’t have them. Then there is no need for new cables. Just use the power/charging cables that came with your electronic accessory. I have a two outlet power inverter for taking long trips so we can plug in the laptop or a TV and Nintendo. The easy solution is just your standard every day home outlet. USB or micro USB is a good compact solution for smaller electronics, but you can’t run a laptop off of it so I don’t see it being THE solutions.
First… do no harm.
The WORST thing to do would be create a new design. It adds complexity and would be a pain to try to get everyone to adopt it.
It has been said already: USB for low current, standard 110V outletfor high current. If you use only the 110V plug, you need to deal with bulky transformers on most 12V devices – and often they are right at the plug. I don’t want that hanging off my dashboard.
This will not be hard for people to figure out, because your toaster doesn’t come with a USB plug.
Done.
USB, anybody? Any car I’d buy, any stereo I’d purchase, has to have it.
USB—per spec—does not have nearly enough power to supply anything beyond a cell phone. Heck, I’ve had cell phones that have trouble drawing enough power from USB to charge. Hacking higher power requirements onto it is asking for problems.**
The existing cigarette lighter socket is worth keeping around. It was designed for high-draw, it’s DC (like most of what’s going to get plugged into it), robust enough to survive an awful environment and reasonably compact. That we’ve managed to stick with one connector is amazing, considering how many different electrical and physical specs we have for AC connectors.
Heck, it’s starting to show up on aircraft because it’s so ubiquitous. If it can make in the clusterf_ck that is aviation, it can make it anywhere.
If I had to replace it with anything, it would be a tougher version of theMagSafe-style connector akin to what Apple uses on the later MacBooks. You get all the benefits of the cig lighter with something that’s even more robust and foolproof in physical terms.
** That said, providing USB (and Bluetooth) in the ICE system is a good idea, and a no-brainer are ICEs become more capable. When I was testing out a Kia Rondo, I was really impressed by how simple and easy the Bluetooth and USB support. If BMW or Mercedes were doing this it would have been horrible. Hell, as someone who’s paired his boss’s new cellphone-of-the-week with his 7-Series, I can assure you it is horrible.
Zune?? Who really has one of those? Just say “iPod” and be done with it.
Seriously though, I completely agree on the need to move beyond the 12VDC lighter standard for power delivery in the cabin. USB seems the smartest interface for low-voltage gear.
–chuck
because your toaster doesn’t come with a USB plug.
Mine does.
Great idea, but it is already a done deal. The USB connector. Many cars already have them. The other really useful plug is a 115 volt AC outlet, and some vehicles are doing that as an option now.
MagSafe isn’t going to be a standard because Apple owns the patent. Apple has a nasty habit of strongly getting in the way of any industry standardization.
I had to disable the cig lighter power port in the back of my Club Wagon because the plastic cap broke off and little kids kept sticking stuff in it like pennies and foil gum wrappers that would blow the fuse.
+1 for USB and standard house jacks. 90% of Ford vehicles come with USB now (courtesy of Sync) and a number come with an option for a standard home plug AC outlet.
It would be really convenient to run a portable arc welder using the car’s electrical power. But wouldn’t that take two USB cords? Or even three?
I thought car voltages were going up to 48 V at some point.
There are a number of relatively small standardized DC medium-amperage connectors used in the computer and telecom industries. These include Tamiya and other connectors. No need to re-invent the wheel here.
Twotone
Also of course remember that USB is 5V, not 12V, so 5V * 1.8A = 9W max.
Still, I agree that that’s probably enough for most devices, and a standard 110V outlet or such would be sufficient for other purposes. But how broken is the current system anyway?
@shaker:
A USB 2.0 port can source .5A max while operating in high speed mode. (USB 3.0 is supposed to up it to .9A, IIRC.) It can support 1.8A when operating in battery charging/no data mode.
Mini and micro USB don’t add any more power capability, they’re just jack designs. However, it was the interest in cell phone charging (and hence mini and micro USB) that led to formalization of the Battery Charging Mode spec for USB that allows the up to 1.8A draw.
Heck, it’s starting to show up on aircraft because it’s so ubiquitous. If it can make in the clusterf_ck that is aviation, it can make it anywhere.
Heck, one of Lockheed’s military planes was considering using Bluetooth for avionics. Not even fly-by-wire, but fly-by-wireless. Of course, that got quashed at some point in the design process.
I used one of these to solve my charging needs:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/new_belkin_gadget_turns_car_cig_lighter_tasteful_usb_charger
It fits flush into the cigarette lighter hole with enough of an edge for you to be able to pluck it out if need be. I have one of these in my car.
Chuck Goolsbee :
August 12th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Zune?? Who really has one of those? Just say “iPod” and be done with it.
–chuck
I had a Zune, sold it to my roommate because I got an iPhone.
Someone said it, cig-lighter can handle high amps, it been around for decades(tooling has been paid off for decades), it’s tough, and reliable. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
BTW, 48 volt electric systems for cars may not happen after all. New electronic devices and gear are getting much more efficient all the time. Probably won’t be any need for higher voltage systems.
This may be a dumb question but what do we plug in these days that uses “a pretty fair amount of current“? I can’t really think of anything
A radar detector, an iPod, a GPS, a laptop – what else are you plugging into the dash these days?
Laptops require a fair amount of current. A typical power supply for a laptop is rated for 90 watts, a far cry from the 2.5 – 6 watts provided by USB.
My daughter’s 2005 Vibe came with a 110V plug right in the dash. But since most mobile devices expect to plug into the cigarette lighter, I don’t think she’s ever used it.
polpo>
Netbooks these days are selling like crazy. Mine should be here tomorrow actually. I’ll letcha know how much power the adapter is rated for. I’m guessing more than what USB can provide, but way under 90 watts.
I think the 68w/hr battery is supposed to give 10.5 hours of runtime.
Great. What am I gonna do with the “reverse battery charger” that plugs into my lighter socket and will allow me to start my car when my battery dies without the hassle of opening the hood?
Mark MacInnis,
You can still use your ‘reverse battery charger” to get 230 MPG in a Chevy Volt, of course!
I agree it needs to be idiot proof like the MagSafe plugs (without infringing on their patent).
The first plug that came to mind was the BMW motorcycle accessory plug which is small rugged and weather tight for truck bed applications. It’s been around for a long time and is readily available. The other plug that would make sense is the airline seat power plug used for laptops since it also an existing standard.
Alternatively come up with something shielded and keyed to prevent short circuits.
Hello all!
Try Powerlet.com
A FAR BETTER connector than the cig lighter socket, vibration-proof. I use it on one of my motorcycles to power my GPS. Well-known in the motorcycle sport-touring community.
My wife’s Jeep Liberty has a cig-lighter plug in front and back. Nice! Which all vehicles should have. On trips I use the one in back for a plug-in fridge.
Commentators here keep referring to a “Standard 110V outlet.” There is no such thing. AC outlets around the world are many and varied. You would not like your BMW to come with a German outlet, your Toyota to have a Japanese and your G8 (RIP) with an Australian outlet. Also the manufacturers would be saddled with meeting every country’s high voltage electrical safety standards.
Stick with low voltage outlets. USB is good. Aircraft seat power outlets are OK for higher power needs.
Finding adapters for the standard two or three prong plug isn’t that hard.
I for one, would love to drop the lighter socket. That’d be one less adapter I’d need to have for my electronic devices. Most small car electronics can be adapted for USB current, anyway… though I’m not so fond of the durability factor of USB sockets, and finding a wire that has the right capacity can be a pain, at times.
Replace the lighter socket with two USB ports, and replace the ashtray with a 110/220/whatever(most laptops and netbooks are bisexual… errh… bi-current, anyway) outlet. That’s all I need.
Yes, I have a Belkin USB adapter, too. :)
Easy solution that allows the majority of the ‘triversal’ power adapters for laptops and other devices work without any changes:
Airplane DC power plugs. It’s a standard, and most kits already use an airplane DC->car DC socket adapter. It’s perfectly functional for the power demands, and would reduce loose kibble nicely.
People keep asking what’s wrong with the cigarette lighter-style port. I’ll give you three answers: Reliability, bulk and ease of shorting them out. The spring-loaded tabs will often fail to keep the plug, well, plugged in; the plugs are HUGE for their purpose and tough to pack in a briefcase or in-car storage bin; and as jpcavanaugh pointed out, a finger, paperclip or other conducting object fits too easily into the outlet.
But back to my original push for a power port or two between the visors: A smaller recepticle would make this possible. Can’t figure out why the manufacturers or aftermarket haven’t figured out that it sometimes makes more sense to plug things in overhead, instead of having a wire dangling down into the dash.
I like the idea of EmPower(R) ports such as those favored by the airlines, as well as good ol’ USB. Either one gives a more positive (and often more foolproof) way of connecting than a lighter plug.
Or is there a possible compromise out there, in the form of a better (as in smaller and more reliably connecting) lighter plug?