Want more proof that Car And Driver Editor-in-Chief Eddie Alterman will believe anything?
Currently floating through the executive offices in Torino is a plan to fit the Dodge [Viper] with a V-10 version of the next-generation corporate V-8. This 90-degree engine would be modular top to bottom as well as by cylinder, with a flat-plane crank for the Ferrari V-8, a conventional cross-plane crank for the Maserati V-8, and pushrod-actuated valves for the balance-shafted Viper V-10.
Too bad Automotive News [sub] already revealed that Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, Lancia and Maserati are not part of the Fiat-Chrysler alliance. And a pushrod V10 based on a new Ferrari/Maserati V8? Isn’t that like basing a the plot of a Babysitters Club novel on the Ramayana? According to Alterman, “Marchionne thinks Viper has the potential to be to Dodge what Miata is to Mazda—a halo car that transmits the brand’s best attributes, and one that has tremendous marketing potential in car enthusiast/amateur racing circles.” Sounds like a top priority. Besides, didn’t the Iso Grifo and the Ghia L6.4 (pictured above) prove that Italo-American fusion works best when the American contribution is a rumbling homegrown V8?
Eet-so Revoltin
The one thing Fiat could do is give the Viper a decent interior, and maybe tbe Delphi magnaride that Ferrari licenses.
The Miata analogy makes no sense, the Viper does not represent the Dodge brand, is the Dodge brand even going to sell cars in the future? Maybe Marchionne thinks the Viper is some kind of high end truck.
Besides, didn’t the Iso Grifo and the Ghia L6.4 (pictured above) prove that Italo-American fusion works best when the American contribution is a rumbling homegrown V8?
Well, the DeTomaso Pantera may have done this.
We all already know this, but the closest that a Viper mill would get to a Ferrari lump is sharing the color of the cam/rocker covers.
Although it is technically Swiss, the Monteverdi Hai 450 is my favorite combo of Italian design and American power. Hai 450 SS Profile
It’s a mid-engined car powered by the 426 HEMI. Here’s a picture of the interior, it’s completely insane: Hai 450 SS interior shot
No matter what they made the engine cover out of, I’m guessing driving this car would lead to permanent hearing loss in a week.
dgduris beat me to it. I don’t know how successful the Pantera was sales wise, but it was very successful desirability wise.
Forgive my ignorance, but what does Fiat have to do with Ferrari? Do they share some common components or something? (I’d certainly hate to think so.)
If that’s the picture of the new concept car you are a little late. I believe Dual Ghia took that a number of years ago.
To continue a Chrysler tradition, they can call it the Viper TC by Ferrari. It would be even better if the Viper could be adapted to a K-car chassis.
“Marchionne thinks Viper has the potential to be to Dodge what Miata is to Mazda—a halo car that transmits the brand’s best attributes, and one that has tremendous marketing potential in car enthusiast/amateur racing circles.”
Ya think? I have to disagree with no_slushbox… The Viper IS the Dodge halo car. It is to Dodge what the Corvette is to Chevy… only better.
Nürburgring lap times from Wikipedia;
7:22.1 – 2009 Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR
7:26.4 – 2009 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1
@Wolven:
1. Fiat S.p.A. owns – like – 50% of Ferrari.
2. I don’t see the Viper as a halo car. I think it is too rare! Miata is a true halo car, I think, because it is a niche vehicle that is commonly seen, is successful as sporting transport and as a commercial venture and, because it give a kind of sporty “halo” to the entire ZoomZoom lineup. Corvette is the same. Viper – me thinks – is too rare to be a halo car…especially for what is essentially a truck brand.
Wolven:
I’m not saying the Viper isn’t a good car, I’ll leave that debate to other people. I’m talking about the “transmits the brand’s best attributes” part.
Mazda is a sporty brand. It has the RX-8, 3 and 6, and even the minivan and SUVs are sporty (stick can be had in the minivan).
Dodge is basically a truck brand. The Viper doesn’t represent the best attributes of the Ram or the Caravan or the Jorney or the Sprinter.
What Fiat has to do with Ferrari is that Fiat owns most of Ferrari as a subsidiary.
1. Fiat S.p.A. owns – like – 50% of Ferrari.
Oh. On the one hand, that’s just sad. On the other, if the Chryco boys could learn some design STYLE from Ferrari, it would be great.
What’s with this “Dodge is basically a truck brand” concept? Sorry, but I gotta call B.S. on that one. Dodge has more “cars” than the Chrysler brand. What do you call the Avenger, Charger, and Challenger? They’re not exactly trucks. As for the “Caliber”, well, the less said the better, but it still falls in the “car” category.
The Viper brand could morph into two vehicles, one a big brutish over the top muscle car in the original Cobra mold, and the other a smaller affordable street sporting car in the Miata mold. It wouldn’t hurt Dodge at all to have two interesting sports cars in the showroom.
The Fiat group certainly has the parts bins with which to make this happen if they so choose.
Besides, didn’t the Iso Grifo and the Ghia L6.4 (pictured above) prove that Italo-American fusion works best when the American contribution is a rumbling homegrown V8?
Not always – the Allante.
John Horner : It wouldn’t hurt Dodge at all to have two interesting sports cars in the showroom.
I agree, as long as they are completely seperate cars. Trying to water down the Viper into some sort of inexpensive Miata contestant would just tarnish the Viper prestige. The Firepower didn’t work.
On the other hand, having a sporty Miata class car would be a nice addition to their lineup. Could they create something off the PT Cruiser platform?
Maybe Marchionne thinks the Viper is some kind of high end truck.
I don’t think Iveco Viper works.
Maybe they could sell it as the Case Viper, or the New Holland Viper.
Saw this on Autoblog as well.
Isn’t the Viper supposed to be all power and little finesse aka modern day Cobra?
If Marchionne can do it with out tarnishing the Viper’s bad ass attitude I say go for it.
Can someone explain to me why on earth you would want to take a good OHC engine, and turn it into a pushrod?
@Wolven,
Fair enough – I think of Ford as a truck brand too – even though I once drove a Taurus. But, I think my point still stands that the Viper is too much rarefied air to cast a halo on the rest of the line (even the ‘Vette’s price is not so discordant vs. the rest of the line-up). That’s what John Horner is acknowledging w/his comment.
@PeteMoran,
Careful there Peter, what the hell do you think a Lamborghini is – when it’s not the nose-heavy, truffle-hunting pig Jack posted a review of earlier today? ( http://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/UNITEDKINGDOM/en-GB/homeuk.html )
@ dgduris
I’d quite like to get a Porsche Tractor myself. They’re way valuable!
re: Wolven:
The Dodges that matter are trucks, especially if you look at sales. And if you check the websites Chrysler and Dodge do both have five cars. Yes, Chysler still considers the Crossfire part of its lineup.
If the parent company was named “Dodge” I wouldn’t be surprized to see the Chrysler brand killed and Dodge kept as a full-line brand. But since the parent company is “Chyrsler”, and since the company no longer has dealer/brand killing bankruptcy protection I see Dodge being stripped of its cars to feed the Chysler brand. Especially since CAFE is going to make redundant large and midsize cars unlikely.
It is very likely that the Charger will die, the Avenger will die (it’s just a rebodied Sebring anyway), the Caliber will die and its platform will be used for a Chrysler, or a Fiat platform will fill the Caliber’s place in the Chrysler brand, the Challenger will become a Chrysler (a company that has the disregard for history to make a four door Charger will have no problem making a Chrysler Challenger. That would leave the Viper as the only Dodge car, which doesn’t make much “transmits the brand’s best attributes” sense.
I could be wrong, but Dodge becoming a truck only brand is much more likely than Ferrari making a pushrod V10 version of its next V8 for the Viper.
Is it wrong to say that I want this to happen? It’s like the best of both worlds if it can be done properly.
IIRC, over a year ago Chrysler decided that the brand Chrysler would be cars only, Dodge would be trucks only, and Jeep would be SUVs only. I don’t know where the minivans would go.
First of all, this is NOT a Ghia L6.4. This is. What you have there is a 1955 Chrysler Falcon. It’s one of many Ghia styling exercises resulting from Chrysler’s relationship with them in the 1950’s going into the early ’60’s. Some were concepts, others like the Dual-Ghia and the L6.4 saw limited production.
And you can argue that the Viper IS a truck, just a very fast one. It’s as American in character as a Ferrari is Italian, and that’s exactly as it should be.
Wolven :
August 10th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
dgduris beat me to it. I don’t know how successful the Pantera was sales wise, but it was very successful desirability wise.
Forgive my ignorance, but what does Fiat have to do with Ferrari? Do they share some common components or something? (I’d certainly hate to think so.)
It outsold Ferrari by a wide margin… though not a commercial success on the level of… say… the Mustang, having a couple of thousand units produced during the car’s heyday, and being produced for a decade or two more afterwards counts as a win for any “supercar”… no matter how crude or shoddily made it was.
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Frank IBC,
I’m guessing that minivans can be classified as a truck, therefore, the Dodge Caravan would live on in that plan.
John Horner:
The Viper brand could morph into two vehicles, one a big brutish over the top muscle car in the original Cobra mold, and the other a smaller affordable street sporting car in the Miata mold. It wouldn’t hurt Dodge at all to have two interesting sports cars in the showroom.”
Chrysler toyed with this idea after the 1st gen Viper was introduced. Either a small turbo four or a small block V8 to compliment the Viper. Hence the Copperhead concept. Or was it the Venom concept? I can’t remember now. This was of course before the re-birth of the Challenger. And then there was the Firepower concept for the Chrysler brand. I don’t see this happening anymore. But the enthusiast in me would certainly like it.
John Horner,
I’m all for it, but they’ll definitely need to call it the Asp. Snickering teenage boys and their not-quite-grown-up elders everywhere would rejoice.