A member of the Florida House of Representatives wants to make driving with a loud stereo a crime on the same level as driving with an open container of alcohol. State Representative D. Alan Hays (R-Umatilla) last month introduced House Bill 137 which modifies an existing loud stereo statute to double the cost of fines and make the offense a moving violation. Current Florida law makes it unlawful to drive with a stereo “plainly audible” from twenty-five feet away or that is “louder than necessary for the convenient hearing by persons inside the vehicle” when driving past a church, school or hospital. Law enforcement officers are exempt as are politicians who use loud soundmaking devices for “political purposes.” The typical fine is $78 with no points.
HB 137 would impose three license points and boost the fine to $180 for a third offense. The addition of points will serve as a boon to insurance companies which will collect significantly higher premiums from ticket recipients. The industry has already rewarded Hays $16,650 in political contributions since his election in 2004, including support for his run for the state Senate in 2010.
Although state law already imposes a specific fine for loud stereos, several municipalities have written their own civil ordinances in order to impose harsher punishments including sixty days in jail, a $500 fine and the potential for thousands in impound fees. Passage of the Hays bill would allow these cities to add license points to the list.
View a copy of HB 137 in a 75k PDF file at the source link below.
Source: 
House Bill 137 (Florida Legislature, 9/22/2009)
[courtesy thenewspaper.com]
Good for Mr. Hays!
I was stupid. When I was young I listened to many hours of loud music with headphones and I a visited my share of singles bars with more loud music.
At least I only damaged my hearing not someone else’s.
Rep. D. Alan Hayes is obviously trying to pay back the insurance companies so I don’t go along with adding points but I do think that vehicles with loud music or other loud noises are unsafe both because they prevent the driver from hearing outside traffic and because they are damaging the hearing of anyone close by.
Any loud vehicle should be impounded and not released until the reasons for it making loud noises are corrected.
Amplifiers, poor quality exhausts, obsolete motorcycle motors, old air cooled VW motors, badly engineered diesel motors etc. should be removed and shredded.
Making noise isn’t macho – it is dumb.
Or, folkdancer, as some men (and perhaps more than a few women) would have it, macho is dumb.
@ folkdancer:
Agreed, especially in higher density areas. Not macho, not cool, just dumb. Although I have to say the overall number of idiots with obnoxious stereos seems to have declined in recent years.
I live on the first floor of my building with a parking lot on two sides so I get to see and hear everyone coming and going. Most of the time it’s not too bad, but any automaker who builds a vehicle that beeps in response to a wireless key fob will never get my business.
The aholes that occasionally show up with their stereos are another matter. Worst of all is the clown with the cosmetically poor Mustang Cobra (think glossy paint now matte and dents in the roof) with the loud pipes and lifter cam who likes to come and go during quiet hours.
Apparently he thinks he has the right to sit there for 10-15 minutes and rev his engine while disturbing the sleep patterns of everyone on that side of the building. That kind of stuff is fine at the track or on your 5 acres in the country, but totally unacceptable in a higher density area.
i dont know about points, but id like to see stiff fines, you can hear then blocks off. also, i wanna fine motorcyclists with loud bikes too. here in pa, a perfectly nice tourist town called New Hope, has been overrun with loud obnoxious motorcycles, and rude careless drivers. There, the local police have begun ticketing them, to the immense pleasure of passers by, who applaud.
If these morons – loud cars, loud motorcycles, loud music systems, cannot understand common courtesy, it needs to be enforced by law. Maybe then they will learn some civility. Probably not tho, they might resort to loud farting in elevators to assert low life version of masculinity,
I was hoping to see a picture of the blues brothers’ dodge cop car with the big megaphone on top.
I don’t mind loud music in the neighborhood as long as its not late at night.
My hearing is showing signs of issues cause I’ve been listening to loud music and noises for a while. Still I don’t blame others, its been my responsibility and choices.
Its a part of my culture and people here in providence to listen to loud music. I think generally most like it and appreciate seeing the lively city. Those that don’t can move out.
I’ve cut down a bit on loud sounds, except at work, where I think the machines are getting me into trouble. Atleast I wear plugs sometimes.
No to the license points. The cops should be furnished large screwdrivers that they can plunge deeply into the subwoofers and woofers…..
I can dream, can’t I?
A worthy problem to address, but the wrong tool, for the wrong reasons.
While going after cretins with loud stereos greatly appeals to both my civilized brain (that is offended by bad behavior) and my lizard brain (that wants to take a large axe to the offending stereo), I think the underlying point here is that the proposed law in question is yet another gift to the insurance industry.
Sorry, as annoying as they are, I think it’s a quite a stretch to say that loud stereos or exhaust systems create more of a risk for either the insured or insurer, and proven higher risk is the only reason I see to raise someone’s auto insurance premiums. I don’t approve of using the threat of higher premiums as punishment to address what is basically a civil, quality-of-life issue.
Don’t make a way-too-loud stereo a moving violation, make it a civil violation. This would cover the lowlife bastards who sit and irritate people from the safety of their driveway, like some neighbors I used to have… I’d lost count how many times I had to call the local cops on them when they’d rattle my windows with their ghetto Suburban’s stereo. I am generally not in favor of making a law for everything under the sun, but there has to be some kind of remedy for that kind of sonic abuse. The only relief I got is when they finally moved away.
Common sense applies… have a band in your backyard for a barbecue once in a while, sure… have a thumping idiot bass party each and every day, I think not. It shouldn’t matter if your noise pollution unit has wheels on it or not.
Define plainly audible.
For if not scientifically assigned a loudness level in decibels at a given distance then everyone can be considered to in violation. An accepted level of 85 decibels is considered by audiologists to be a point where people can listen for hours without ill effects. Fine. 85 decibels 25 feet from the car, measured with A weighted meters should be the standard, not plainly audible, which is far far lower. For comparison the engine of a bus or truck can be up to 90 decibels ( almost 200% louder) at a distance of 10 feet away.
A weighting is at least a recognized legal standard applied to working conditions around machines.
Once more we are leaving too much to chance. Everyone has in their head the notion that the loudest car stereos are the intended target. They will be, until revenue starts to flow.
But hey, it’s for the children right?
And we all need state legislature to create rules for us all to live by and preserve our hearing. How about a ban on the sale of car audio equipment then, no sense tempting young people with deafness. Once enacted, expect the tiny 78 fee to rise, along with associated court costs.
Define audible. OK, annoyingly audible is 75dB from 25hz to 250hz at 25 feet. That frequency range is the most omnidirectional and obnoxious.
But I still vote for cop discretion and a screwdriver through the woofers….
Just kidding.
Maybe.
beater has it right – civil infraction, like peeing on somebody’s lawn.
some remarks:
1) I’d want to make sure that any sudiologically-based standard would not rely on an average over time, but would catch the people with the thump-thump-thumping sub-woofer
2) The day is coming closer when a pockteable HERF (High-Energy Radio Frequency) “gun” will be a reality. Such a device produces an enormous spike of electro-magnetic energy that fries transistors and intergrated circuits….and there goes the car stereo…and the whole car (these days)…and alas any other piece of electronics nearby.
It’s a real effect (the military has been working on non-blast bombs using this and other effects for some time now and hardens their equipment against it, as nuclear explosion creates HERF) not some sci-fi. Of course, totalling a car this way (To repair it, you’d have to replace every transistorized device in the car, impossible…this now happens in rare cases when a car gets hit hard by lightning) would be no different from wrecking it in a more normal fashion.
3) Watch where you stick a screw-driver….the capacitors used to cache the surge energy for the bump-thump are now up to multiple farads and will discharge a dangerous amount of energy if shorted
Insurance companies run this country.
First it was Helmet laws, then Seatbelt laws, then cell phone laws and on and on.
The GOVERNMENT and insurance companies give a rat’s ass about your personal safety. They don’t care if you live or die, they just want to separate you from your money before you do.
As a Florida resident, I suspect that this bill has more to do with giving legal cover to pulling over non-Caucasian drivers than keeping the peace. I’m sure a law against polished 24″+ rims can’t be far off. That’s also why crack possession here get you 5 times more time than cocaine possession.
The rights of a person to listen to their own loud music (or whatever other noise) has to be weighed against the rights of the public for peace and quiet. The ONLY way to address this is by numbers. If the noise is quieter than X, then the person making the noise is within their rights … too bad for the outsiders being hypersensitive. If the noise is louder than X, then the outsiders are entitled to more peace and quiet.
There are standards written to address this.
For example, SAE J2825 is a standard that covers exhaust noise from motorcycles. It is written so that stock motorcycles pass it with a reasonable allowance for wear and tear and for individuals to customize their bikes. Most *good* aftermarket exhaust systems that have proper baffles in the muffler will pass it. Straight, unmuffled pipes will not pass it. Poorly designed aftermarket mufflers without enough muffler volume or adequate baffling will not pass it. And this is as it should be.
So, do the same thing for stereo noise. If the noise is louder than X decibels at Y distance then it’s not in compliance. Period. Has to be by the numbers. “Plainly audible” is too vague.
I don’t agree with vehicle seizures or driving-record consequences for something like this. If the driver can’t hear the siren of an ambulance because the music was too loud and as a result doesn’t move over … THAT is when the driver needs a driving-record penalty with insurance consequences. Not before.
There needs to be some way to curb the disturbance. I believe it’s called “disturbing the peace”.
off subject: Is that a T-car in the picture? it looks a bit like one.
If the driver can’t hear the siren of an ambulance because the music was too loud and as a result doesn’t move over … THAT is when the driver needs a driving-record penalty with insurance consequences. Not before.
Do we include deaf drivers? Currently there is no requirement to be able to hear to drive.
HB 137 would impose three license points and boost the fine to $180 for a third offense. The addition of points will serve as a boon to insurance companies which will collect significantly higher premiums from ticket recipients. The industry has already rewarded Hays $16,650 in political contributions since his election in 2004, including support for his run for the state Senate in 2010.
Well, there’s the meat of the story…
The insurance lobby is patently insane. Here in Colorado, they “convinced” the legislature to force drivers to buy a health insurance policy with their car insurance policy, even if they already have it y favorite, though – they were given clearance to classify people with poor credit as a worse driving risk, allowing them to charge them higher rates.
Oh, and one wonders if there will be any shitstorm for riders of obnoxiously loud motorcycles…
While the noise may be annoying, the application of points is just another way for the insurance industry to f**k over more people. I am OK with reasonable fines for excessive volume late at night, but you need a standard that can be tested and repeated reliably. Giving discretion to the cops is just another way to allow them to discriminate as they see fit. The last thing the cops need is more license to abuse citizens.
If you are going to pick on stereos, how about a outright ban on straight pipes on motorcycles. I never understood the idea of noise without power. Where I live, stereos at night are not a problem, but the bikes are crazy. Would it really be too hard to short shift at night in residential neighborhoods?
Why stop at loud stereos?
Why don’t we cite smokers that drive with the windows down?
I have been behind many vehicles and could clearly smell cigar and cigarette smoke emitted from the vehicle.
I propose that smoking with the windows open become a moving violation punishable by fines and points.
Hey, if we are going to be a nanny state, why not go all the way?
-ted
http://xkcd.com/368/
What annoys the hell out of me, and I’m a motorcyclist by the way, is these morons on their Harleys with the loud, and I mean loud, pipes. Its freakin’ embarassing.
Especially since many of them are just playing at being Hells Angels. Often in real life they are dentists and lawyers and such. They know better.
Comically, there was an article in Cycle Canada a few issues ago interviewing a Hells Angels member. He commented that the Hells Angels ride stone stock bikes (at least here in Canada) since they get pulled over all the time. And the cops would love to bust them for any vehicle infractions.
@zerofoo:
Hey, if we are going to be a nanny state, why not go all the way?
Oy vey, here we go with the fatuous “nanny state” complaint. Fact is, nobody would ever (have cause to) propose measures like this if people would behave like reasonably polite, thoughtful grownups instead of self-centered, egotistical, thoughtless, rude, spoiled little brats.
Behave like a child, and the grownups of the world will have no choice but to treat you as a child when they’re sick to damn death of your childish behavior. It’s really that simple. I’m no fan of the insurance industry, nor am I a Republican, but I have zero problem with Rep Hays’ proposal. Want to avoid these fines and points? It’s very easy: Keep your freakin’ stereo turned down.
How about we just repeal any laws that would prosecute person for shooting at loud cars/motorcycles?
All those that want to be loud still can be loud… and all those that want peace and quiet can shoot them.
See, everyone happy!
(What too many forget is that ‘free speach’ is not ‘protected speach’. You can say what you want, but others can respond. And if you aren’t prepared to face the consequences… maybe ya ought not to do it.)
zerofoo: the last time I checked, a smoker driving by didn’t cause my house to be filled with smoke.
But I can vouch that there have been car stereos and Harleys that were so loud that I couldn’t hold a conversation inside my house. And, yes, my doors and windows were closed.
Once, I went so far as to walk out of my house, walk up to the car, reach inside, and turn the radio off. The driver was pretty peaved, but he also knew that I meant business.
This should be a sliding scale form of “loud music” punishment-something like a warning for loud classic rock and life without parole for ‘Mama Mia-the Soundtrack’.
http://www.mystarcollectorcar.com/
gogogodzilla +1
Isn’t that kinda the theory behind legal dueling nearly two centuries ago?
We don’t need laws to keep people in line; bring back good old gentlemanly vigilantism. It pretty clearly forces actions to meet consequences very simply for all the fully-grown toddlers to understand.
Points, driving record, etc. just slaps at the problem.
The death penalty solves it.
These noise ordinances come up every so often, however the CEA and SEMA lobbying powers usually get them shot down, or at least reduced in effectiveness.
The problem with noise enforcement is so few departments have accurate SPL meters. Without those, any attorney should be able to knock these citations out…
I live in the center of Dallas/Fort Worth (5,000,000 people plus) and I can’t tell you how many times the wide open, unmuffled pipes on my scoot have saved my live. People here drive like shit and don’t look when they change lanes. My pipes force them to look, everytime.
For the people who say loud pipes don’t save lives, come to D/FW and ride your Singer sewing machine in our traffic, then have you widow email when you get squashed. I’ll take her out to dinner.
zerofoo :
Why stop at loud stereos?
Why don’t we cite smokers that drive with the windows down?
Not necessary. Just make it legal for me to stick my head in and vomit on their lap!
@Daniel J. Stern
As a non-smoker, I find cigarette smoke offensive and hazardous to my health….much like the loud music example. It’s no different than loud music – apart from the fact that loud music doesn’t cause cancer.
So according to your logic, and using my example, you would be OK with a law forcing smokers to close all their windows while smoking in a car.
That’s insane.
So much for land of the free.
-ted
@Dick:
I can’t tell you how many times the wide open, unmuffled pipes on my scoot have saved my live.
That’s right, you can’t. Because they haven’t. Say “loud pipes save lives” as often as you like — shout it as loudly as you can — and it still won’t be true, no matter what you think you see or how fervently you Believe™ otherwise. Science (mostly physics, in this case) trumps opinions and guesses and rationalizations like yours…every time.
@zerofoo:
you would be OK with a law forcing smokers to close all their windows while smoking in a car. That’s insane.
Please, zerofoo…no putting words in my mouth. Not on the first date. Feed ’em to that strawman over → → →there instead.
@Daniel J. Stern
My real gripe is the perversion of the point system to legislate other types of behaviors.
The point system is designed to discourage risky behavior while operating a motor vehicle.
To those that say “loud pipes save lives” or “loud stereos cause accidents” – I say prove it. Give me the statistical analysis that proves either.
Loud music and pipes may be annoying – I’ll grant you that. (For the record I do not own a motorcycle or a loud stereo.) But do both activities increase risk on our roads?
If the answer is no, then the point system is not the way to regulate this sort of activity.
All this does is create another way for insurance companies to separate you from your money.
-ted
“plainly audible” from twenty-five feet away or that is “louder than necessary for the convenient hearing by persons inside the vehicle” when driving past a church, school or hospital.
It’s probably unconstitutionally vague but it’s exactly the kind of ordinance cops and prosecutors love specifically because it’s so vague.
Law enforcement officers are exempt as are politicians who use loud soundmaking devices for “political purposes.”
Seems like a violation of the equal protection clause. Why should politicians get special privileges?
As for LEOs, I don’t think they should be exempt from any laws whatsoever. If the law says you can’t bring a gun into a church, cops should have to abide by the law too. Cops should only be allowed to ignore traffic laws in the case of actual emergencies. Of course cops will insist that everything they do could possibly involve an emergency.
Also, it’s interesting to see how many men have absorbed feminist misandry.
But I still vote for cop discretion and a screwdriver through the woofers….
Ever read the Fourth Amendment?
3) Watch where you stick a screw-driver….the capacitors used to cache the surge energy for the bump-thump are now up to multiple farads and will discharge a dangerous amount of energy if shorted
Those of us who think cops are a bit trigger happy with their Tasers would find this to be karmic justice.
# Daniel J. Stern :
October 10th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
@zerofoo:
Hey, if we are going to be a nanny state, why not go all the way?
Oy vey, here we go with the fatuous “nanny state” complaint. Fact is, nobody would ever (have cause to) propose measures like this if people would behave like reasonably polite, thoughtful grownups instead of self-centered, egotistical, thoughtless, rude, spoiled little brats.
It all started when you hit him back, eh? It’s telling that you resent being associated with the “nanny state” and then proceed to describe yourself as a “thoughtful grownup” and others as “spoiled little brats” who “behave like a child”.
Sounds to me like you’re very much a nanny who wants to tell others how to act. Considering you think that it’s okay to block traffic so long as you’re dawdling along at the speed limit that’s not surprising.
You don’t like “nanny staters”? How about incipient authoritarians?
Want to avoid illegal searches and seizures? Just never do anything that could be seen as offending those in power.
I’m sure we can find some constitutional right that you hold dear that can be vitiated under the rubric of protecting people from their own bad choices.
You don’t have a problem with the nanny state because you see yourself as the nanny.
Daniel J. Stern: “That’s right, you can’t. Because they haven’t. Say “loud pipes save lives” as often as you like — shout it as loudly as you can — and it still won’t be true, no matter what you think you see or how fervently you Believe™ otherwise.”I wonder how many lives have been lost when a motorist made an abrupt movement and caused an accident due to being startled by one of the jackasses who feel it’s necessary to ‘save lives’ by having a motorcycle with a loud, unmuffled exhaust…
Hey Dick, I rode quiet bikes for 40 years and don’t think I ever even had to blow my horn to “save my life”. If you need the loud pipes to save your “live”, maybe you are the problem. By the way, I have ridden my Singer machine through Dallas with no problems.
I can’t stand loud stereos as much as the next person, but I don’t see this as high on anyone’s priority list of problems. Alan Hays needs to quit fiddling with himself and go back to his dental practice. I have met the bastard and can’t stand him. I hope he rots in a the jail that he belongs in.
This is very interesting to me, as I drive a car, ride a motorcycle and wear hearing aides.
I have a bone stock 600c sport bike that I short shift ON PURPOSE (usually at 4-5k) anytime I am in a residential neighborhood. I generally drive under the limit (25 here, I hang out at 18-20) as I figure I won’t hear kids on bicycles as well as a fully hearing person — not to mention the deer that commonly cross the road.
On the other hand I am VERY affected by very low bass, sometimes to the point where I feel physically ill. I wish I could ticket/arrest all those people.
I also believe people should be banned from smoking in cars unless their windows ALWAYS stay up. I’ve been hit/almost hit by LIT CIGARETTES, CIGARS and/or ashes about 12 times while only having 3 years of riding experience. Can I follow these people until they stop, and then call the cops to arrest them for assault?
@Ronnie Schreiber:
It’s telling that you resent being associated with the “nanny state” and then proceed to describe yourself as a “thoughtful grownup” and others as “spoiled little brats” who “behave like a child”.
It might be telling if I had actually described myself as a thoughtful grownup, or said that I resent being associated with the “nanny state”, but I didn’t do either. Try re-reading my comment, perhaps a bit more carefully. Read what’s written, not what you’re itchin’ to see.
Considering you think that it’s okay to block traffic so long as you’re dawdling along at the speed limit
That doesn’t describe me or my driving at all, and never has. I am not a policeman, so it’s not my job to control anyone else’s speed. I keep right except to pass.
I’m sure we can find some constitutional right that you hold dear that can be vitiated under the rubric of protecting people from their own bad choices.
I have no interest in protecting anyone from his own bad choices. It is a widely held and soundly based principle that your right to swing your fist ends just shy of my face, however, and he who lacks the (thoughtful, grown-up) self-discipline to control his fist — stereo, exhaust modifications, cigarette smoke, whatever — will find it controlled for him by society. He probably won’t like how it’s controlled for him, but he should’ve thought of that when he had the opportunity to control himself.
@zerofoo:
My real gripe is the perversion of the point system to legislate other types of behaviors. The point system is designed to discourage risky behavior while operating a motor vehicle. Loud music and pipes may be annoying – I’ll grant you that. (For the record I do not own a motorcycle or a loud stereo.) But do both activities increase risk on our roads? If the answer is no, then the point system is not the way to regulate this sort of activity. All this does is create another way for insurance companies to separate you from your money.
That is a rational, lucid, thoughtful comment…and I especially like that you did it without setting up and knocking down strawmen or putting words in my mouth!
@Robstar:
I’ve been hit/almost hit by LIT CIGARETTES, CIGARS and/or ashes about 12 times while only having 3 years of riding experience.
Yeah, well, when you’re a smoker, the world’s your ashtray.