Jonathon writes:
Sajeev, I grew up and still live in Chicago. Following the habits of my parents, I always replace a battery after four Chicago winters. Can modern batteries withstand the cold climates better than their predecessors, or should I replace that 4 year old battery this fall?
Sajeev answers:
I do not know if car batteries evolved like their internal combustion
brethren, but modern automobile electronics demand more robust
juiceboxes. Thirty years ago, you’d be hard pressed to find an
alternator with more than 80 amps in a mainstream American passenger
car. But today? Good luck finding a car with less than 120 amps in
an alternator that doesn’t look like the center section of a TIE
fighter.But more importantly, none of this matters: only replace a battery
when it fails a diagnostic test. A parts store can test it (in the
car) for free, usually in less than 10 minutes. Or, for the charging
system OCDs of the world, spend a few bucks for some kind of cigarette
lighter mounted tester for accurate results in seconds. The testers
are idiot proof and might keep you from blowing $100 (or so) for a new
battery when you could put off that expense months later. You know,
maybe after you pay off your credit card during your Christmas
shopping binge.
[Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com]
Start with a highly rated battery. Several sources rate batteries.
Get the “SUV” version of the battery model. The plates are supported better which foils what is probably the number one killer of batteries: the plates get shaken to pieces causing a cell to die.
I have three cars that went from 3 year replacement cycles to 7 year cycles after I switched.
$17 will buy you a simple battery load tester like this one from Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93784
As long as the car is still starting crisply and the battery doesn’t collapse under load, I wouldn’t replace it.
Also, in a cold climate I would certainly run a 0W-20 or 0W-30 (depending on what your car calls for) in the winter months. They will be easier on the engine, starter and battery than will a conventional oil.
While cold weather can tax a weak battery, and very cold weather(say -20F)can tax even a strong battery, I have seen them recover nicely after a jump and proper charge. I have found since moving South that very hot weather can precipitate sudden and irrecoverable battery failure. That said, I never replace a battery until it tests bad. Why fix what ain’t broke.
I agree, don’t replace your battery unless you need it. A cigarette lighter monitor or a load tester will let you know when you need to replace it. Then, when you replace it, spend the extra money on a good battery. Duralast Gold and Diehard Platinum are both made by Johnson Controls and are excellent battaries. They are (or at least the Duralast is) way over rated on amps and should last many years.
I too live near Chicago. When my battery is due I always change it in the Fall to have a fresh one for winter. I change my OEM batteries after 4 yrs.
then I buy the best I can afford. I change them based on the years they are rated for. I may be wasting some battery, but I haven’t been stuck somewhere in winter with a dead one either. Nor has my wife. Oh and those little felt washers they sell you to prevent corrosion. They work.
I was sceptical until a chemist I know checked them out. He buys them and so so I. No problems.
Sajeev. Your advice about the test is logical. but have You or your wife ever had a dead battery in a blizzard?
I’m on the opposite side of this argument, maybe because I’ve been stranded too many times by a dead battery. I replace every 4 years, regardless — the extra few bucks are worth it to avoid the trouble.
Especially with the wife’s car.
I live in Toronto and the battery in my 2001 MPV just died. 8 years, 63,000 miles. 1994 Ranger – i replaced the battery at 8yrs & 110,000 miles.
I get the OEM battery when replacing since they last about 8 yrs. Aftermarket ones that i’ve tried or family has tried – last 2-4 yrs. And the OEM battery only costs about $10 more.
I live in Toronto and the battery in my 2001 MPV just died. 8 years, 63,000 miles. 1994 Ranger – i replaced the battery at 8yrs & 110,000 miles.
I get the OEM battery when replacing since they last about 8 yrs. Aftermarket ones that i’ve tried or family has tried – last 2-4 yrs. And the OEM battery only costs about $10 more.
Finally… something I’m qualified to comment on. Normally I’d side with Sajeev above; go with a load tester and only worry about it when you need it. I’m from the same general area and you are never really too far from help if you are a city/suburban dweller.
My decision though, is purely gut and geography based. I live in Wyoming now and am looking at 10″ snow coming down right now. Getting stranded here in the mountains can be a lethal proposition. If my battery has given me signs of trouble and is old and I know I’m going to have my car sitting in -20 Wyoming/Colorado weather for a few days (e.g. airport) I’m going to replace. I’m actually budgeting for a battery for the late fall for that reason. I’ve had some lazy starts on cold days and need to feel safe that I can make it through the mountains.
Long story short: I’m letting geography decide.
“If my battery has given me signs of trouble and is old and I know I’m going to have my car sitting in -20 Wyoming/Colorado weather for a few days (e.g. airport) I’m going to replace.”
That makes complete sense, but isn’t the same thing as replacing a battery every four years. Most of the time a failing battery will warn you with weak turnover and slow starts before it dies all together … unless you live with brutal summer temps where a battery can easily get sudden death syndrome.
In my youth, I could always tell a slowly failing battery by the reluctant cold starts. But over the last 10-15 yrs, I have noticed no falloff in battery performance, then one day absolutely nothing happens when I turn the key. I will stifle the rant I feel coming on about the worthlessness of voltmeters compared to the ammeters I used to know and love.
But anyway, there is nothing wrong with a 4 year battery replacement schedule if it keeps your car starting every morning. Besides, why take the time to go into a shop for a test. It is so much more convenient to replace a battery when YOU are ready to replace it. Whenever my battery has been ready, I always seem to have 5 places I have to be.
I inspect and maintain my “maintenance free” batteries every fall as follows:
– pop the caps and check the electrolyte levels in the cells. Top-up as necessary with distilled water
– charge the battery with a bench charger
– check each cell with a hydrometer
– Load-test the battery (I have the same tester that jthorner linked to.)
If the battery passes these tests, it’s good for another year… unless a plate breaks loose from the busbar as CarPerson suggested. This has never happened to me but it happened to one of my dad’s batteries.
The two common failure modes I’ve seen are weak electrolyte or shorted plates from build-up of sediment in the bottom of the cells.
Following this regimen, and listening to how much the starter labors as the temperature gets colder in the fall, I will typically know if the battery is weak before it leaves me stranded in the middle of winter. You guys that change your batteries every 4 years as a maintenance item can give the old ones to me.
The only exception is that, if you have a vehicle with two batteries such as a diesel, it’s a good idea to replace both when one fails so that they’re roughly “matched”. In some circumstances, when the older battery starts to fail later, it could shorten the life of the newer battery.
Testers that plug into the cigarette lighter are just a voltmeter. I definitely recommend having a voltmeter in your car, but if your system voltage reads low, it could be one of several problems with the charging system, not just the battery.
Another tip if you want to prevent corrosion of your battery terminals is to smear silicone dielectric grease on them. I usually find this at the parts store near the spark plugs.
I deal with large numbers of batteries professionally (though in a non-automotive capacity in Uninterruptible Power Supplies for datacenters) where their performance is critical. We test batteries twice a year, and replace them on a hard 4-year schedule.
I can think of exactly two instances in the last seventeen years of a battery suddenly failing. One was in Chicago, in the winter, and it wasn’t a complete failure, just a sudden slow-crank condition — a dead cell. The car started, I drove to a garage and had the battery replaced, and that was that. The other was in Oregon in the spring. Same situation: One dead cell, slow crank, engine started, I drove to a parts store, fetched a new battery and installed it in the parking lot.
The other battery failures I’ve experienced in that timeframe have either been my own stupid fault — leaving the parking lamps on for a couple days will drain a battery flatter than a sheet of carbon paper — or have given me ample warning in the form of gradually declining cranking speeds over a period of weeks or months. That being the case, I do not treat a battery as scheduled-maintenance item.
Sometime in 2007, I left the parking lights on in my truck for an entire weekend, Friday afternoon to Monday morning; that battery was flatter than a sheet of carbon paper. I installed an Exide Orbital spiral-cell battery, being familiar with the concept from having previously used Optima batteries (but gone off the Optima product in response to rising prices and falling durability). When I sold the truck in late autumn of 2008, I removed the Orbital and installed a basic plain battery (with the full knowledge of the buyer). I chucked the Orbital in my storage lockup and forgot about it…
…until about a month ago, when I did the same dumb parking-lamps-on-all-weekend stunt with my Dart, in the same parking place. So dead it wouldn’t even make the 4w dome light glow even slightly. I grabbed a ride over to the lockup, retrieved the Orbital, and put it in the Dart, which cranked briskly and started immediately. The ammeter showed about a 35-second charge-up to replenish the power spent cranking the engine. Now that is a neat and useful trick for a lead-acid battery, retaining a 100% charge over a year’s time just sitting on a concrete floor in an unheated storage facility in Toronto.
But over the last 10-15 yrs, I have noticed no falloff in battery performance, then one day absolutely nothing happens when I turn the key.
This is systematic of a dead cell caused by plate degration caused by shake and vibration, not routine wear and tear. Again, get the SUV version as better plate supports are used.
Amen with having the correct winter oil in the engine. A quality 10W-30 will work in 95% of all engines.
Amen with the Harbor Freight battery load tester. However, this tester will not tell you if the plates are about break up and fall into a heap on the bottom of the cell because of shake and vibration.
Also, get a dead battery re-charged as soon as possible. If not able to do so in a matter of hours, at least take it out and keep it in a warm location. A cold (below freezing) discharged battery self destructs in a matter of days. Dump the acid out and it’s full of a black ash. That’s the plate active media taken leave.
“The battery is Exide Select Orbital, or as Bob Lutz, chairman, president and CEO of Exide, and former president of Chrysler, refers to it, the Dodge Viper of batteries.”
If Bob Lutz endorses it, how bad can it be?
The AGM ( asorbed glass mat ) batteries do have a much longer shelf life. They dont leak acid, so no corrosion either. Maybe someone can explain how a load tester works.
Mike66Chryslers is absolutely correct. Top off each cell with distilled water and charge with a bench charger. You should be good to go.
Also, an important thing to check is the cables. If there is to much corrosion, the battery will be more strained during cranking, and the alternator will have a harder time charging it. I have a 4 year old battery in my Ranger that I thought was on its way out. I changed the cables, and even sitting for a couple of weeks outside in the winter, it fires right up.
When it becomes time to change the battery, buy the one with the most cold cranking amps that you can fit into the tray, and have the cables reach. Brand doesn’t matter. Most of the store brands, Die Hard, Duralast, etc… can be from any number of suppliers. There is no “Die Hard battery factury.” Just make sure you get a good warranty. For this reason, when I buy cables, I make sure they are long enough to reach either terminal. Sometimes you the high CCA battery doesn’t have the terminals on the same side.
Let’s say at 4 years, you’r 80% sure that you’ve used up 80% of the life of the battery.
The battery you want is on sale now for 20% off the regular price.
It makes sense to buy it now when you can get it for 20% off, rather than waiting until you are under the gun and paying full price.
Juniper : Your advice about the test is logical. but have You or your wife ever had a dead battery in a blizzard?
If that ever happened to my wife, I’d have more problems than a dead battery. Single guy freedoms aside, I do care for my Mom’s car (thanks for the free college education, Mom) and use the plug in voltmeter (with intuitive LCD bars and idiot lights) to tell me how weak the battery is.
But I live in hot weather climates, and I can almost understand the concept of getting stuck in frozen weather.
I’d consider what Mike66chryslers said, otherwise replace when you want to because it’s certainly not the end of the world. Batteries are a wear item and replacing them every 4 years is by no means a waste of money.
Oh c’mon at least tell me where the pic was taken.
@MBella:
When it becomes time to change the battery, buy the one with the most cold cranking amps that you can fit into the tray
That’s unsound advice. There’s much more to picking the best battery than just grabbing the one with the biggest cold cranking amp number. How long can the battery continue to provide any given level of current? What is its reserve capacity? What is its internal resistance? When was it manufactured and how long has it been sitting on shelves? None of those can be determined by looking at the cold cranking amps, and at least two of them are more crucial to getting the job done in more situations than cold cranking amps.
Brand doesn’t matter
That’s not realy an accurate statement. Most batteries are made by relatively few companies, which means there are many batteries identical under the labels, but that definitely doesn’t mean all batteries of a given BCI group size give the same performance or durability. The batteries within any brand line are built to the brand manager’s specifications, including quality level —in so many words—and price. The parts stores who market to Debby and Davey DoItYerself (Pep Boys, Autozone, Canadian Tire, etc.) pay JCI or Exide a great deal less per battery than the parts stores who supply parts to real service shops (NAPA, CarQuest, Federated, etc.). There’s some overlap; I bought my Exide Orbital at a Canadian Tire, and NAPA has been aggressively moving downmarket with DIY-grade (crap) parts over the last decade.
As with many other parts, choosing wisely often means doing the job once instead of multiple times over any given time period.
I live and drive in Edmonton, Alberta (Canada).
Our winters would make yours look like a Hawaiian holiday.
Winter temperatures have reached -40C here, and we expect almost continuous sub 32degree from November to March.
To get to the point; I’ve got a 2002 Focus SVT – and it’s still on its original battery. The car is garaged every night in an unheated garage that’s attached to our house, so let’s add 10 degrees to the outsite temp. During the workday it’s parked outside and I usually only plug it if it’s below -5F.
Maybe this is the winter that the old battery dies, but a good battery (with usage like mine) should be good for more than 4 years.
I live in Saskatchewan, which has fairly hot summers and very cold winters. I don’t have a garage so I park outdoors. In severely cold weather (below about -15 C / 5 F) I plug in the car’s engine block heater to ease starting.
I tend to get about five years out of a battery. At that point when tested they tend to show that they are weakening and at that point I replace the battery.
Hot weather is harder on a battery than cold weather – but cold weather makes battery weakness more obvious.
I read an article a few months ago and I think central plains states like South Dakota and Colorado are when the winters cease being so harsh that they start contributing to a battery’s wear. That’s where you get about the longest battery longevity. I’m not sure where Chicago ranked, but I’d guess the summers are not hotter enough than ours to make a battery die faster than it does here.
Different cars draw different amounts of power when the car is off. And the consequences are different too.
A cautionary tale – off topic for those who don’t buy cars with all sorts of power toys. A dead battery in a Porsche Cayman is a real treat. You can’t get access to the battery, which has no power left, without power. E trunk release. Well, you can, just remove the left front wheel and the liner and yank real hard on the exposed release wire. The preferred alternative is to jack a donor battery into the fuse panel, directions for which are in the manual you hopefully haven’t tossed into the trunk compartment near the battery itself. Not only will this get you access to the battery, it will release the ignition key, which, if you were foolish enough to try it anyway, locks in place if the battery is dead. No, really. Bet you don’t see too many of these cars on the road in the Great White North during their five month winter.
When my OEM battery goes pins up in any car, I replace it with an Interstate. I got several years out of that brand in cold weather and have generally been pretty happy with price and performance.
Back in the day when I used to fool around with a lot of older cars, the tools that paid their way time and time again were my battery terminal puller, spreader, and cleaning brush. Nowadays it seems that there’s not as much likelihood of a bad connection at the battery terminals – another way of saying that I haven’t used those tools in quite a while now.
I buy a new relatively inexpensive Johnson Controls Duralast battery from AutoZone when the old one has difficulty starting the car, not sooner. Even the <$50 batteries last about 5 years with occasional check of electrolyte levels and addition of distilled water as needed. Heat seems to shorten the life of batteries here in Texas relative to further north, but cold weather starting is a non-issue. Parts stores are everywhere in the suburbs and Wal-Mart is open 24/7 in the event of a sudden battery failure when AutoZone is closed.
Couple of points I’d like to throw in. Back in the day, I’d let the battery stay until it showed signs of weakness. However, my last battery failed after 7.5 yrs without warning. This was the OEM battery. Seems you don’t always get the same warning signs you used to. While this is counter to what most of you are saying, replacing ahead of failure is what I do now, mostly. The fun car keeps the battery until it dies, but not the others. The wife’s car gets its battery changed before failure. I do not want to put her in harm’s way or inconvenience her with battery problems. My daily driver gets a replacement after 6 years. Why? Because as those who drive high mileage cars know, a failure of the alternator can occur any time after 150K or so. A good battery can carry you home, a tired one probably won’t. You also get a chance to shop sales if you purchase proactively. Lastly, unless you manage to buy one less battery over the time span you own your car, you really haven’t saved anything.
Daniel Stern: There is no reason that as a DIY’r you have to buy low priced crap. I buy the same top quality replacement parts that the “best” shops use; the only difference is I don’t get robbed blind when I buy them.
Regarding that picture, I wish I lived where it snowed like that…
My Dad has all of us beat – his 1996 Explorer (with around 100K on it) that he purchased new still has it’s original Motorcraft battery in it after all these years and it still works fine. I recall hearing years ago (and perhaps not true anymore) that the batteries Johnson Controls made for Ford under the Motorcraft brand were their highest spec batteries they made for either OE or aftermarket.
The Costco “Kirkland” brand batteries are made by Johnson Controls and get high marks from CR, assuming anyone gives them any creedence.
Maybe we need a contest, the oldest battery that is used on a regular basis. I have an 01 chevy with the orignal battery and I am sure I wont win.
Seasonal maintenance is better than “fix it when it breaks” maintenance, if you like avoiding unscheduled repairs. I am in good company with Mr. Goolsbie.
So while installing variety of mods, I changed out my new 99 Miata’s original glass matt Panasonic battery last spring, ten years life, new one sits at .25 more volts than old one.
And I went ahead and changed out original 2002 Audi Aa4 battery after a couple light- on-forget events. Shocking how much the OEM size one was even from NAPA, went cheap and got 2/3 the OEM size which is still large. That battery tray is well designed, takes any length battery.
Now no worries for either one for remaining ownership.
@golden2husky:
Daniel Stern: There is no reason that as a DIY’r you have to buy low priced crap.
Correct, which is one of the primary reasons I never said that.
‘The Costco “Kirkland” brand batteries are made by Johnson Controls and get high marks from CR, assuming anyone gives them any creedence.‘
In the same recent CR spread that Kirkland scored high (in one of the groups), Interstate was at the bottom of most of the groups…
Does anyone know if Interstate still manufactures their own, or are they now a relabled Excide/jctrls/some other weird possible chinese brand?
Interstate is a battery marketer, not a battery maker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Batteries
Several reports say their primary supplier is Johnson Controls.
According to CR: “Most auto batteries are made by just three manufacturers, Delphi, Exide, and Johnson Controls Industries. Each makes batteries sold under several different brand names. Delphi makes ACDelco and some EverStart (Wal-Mart) models. Exide makes Champion, Exide, Napa, and some EverStart batteries. Johnson Controls makes Diehard (Sears), Duralast (AutoZone), Interstate, Kirkland (Costco), Motorcraft (Ford), and some EverStarts.”
Don’t forget East Penn/Deka.
The battery in my 2000 Grand Marquis has yet to be replaced. 175,000 miles and 9 years..My 08 Escape had the battery replaced by the dealer, 1 year and 30000 miles..
I have gotten five years of service from the two batteries my C43 has needed in the last ten years. The replacements have been big Duralasts. I don’t drive the car often, and always use a battery tender. Both were replaced before they failed. CR claims Walmart sells the best.
My Ranger, bought new in ’97, is on its 3rd battery.
The first died with 3K to go on the truck’s 3yr/36K bumper-to-bumper warranty.
Its replacement lasted 8 years.
The first no-start not due to leaving lights on and other sypid moves, is a battery’s last one for me. I shop for a replacement ASAP after the jump start.
An additional point of interest: I read somewhere (CR?) that the difference between the battery with a 2 year free replacement and 3 year free replacement warranty is simply an insurance policy. There is no material difference in the batteries, the extra cost is simply the insurance premium for the additional warranty time.
Can the Best and Brightest confirm as fact?
Sajeev,
My dad has run an auto electric shop for 30 years. He says to replace every 4 years. An old battery may start the car, but will put undo stain on the alternator. A weak battery is the number one cause for alternator failure.
Once I bought one of those “premium” Autozone batteries with a three year full replacement warranty when I was living in California. Then I moved to Indiana. Exactly three years after buying it, the battery died.. 2 days after the full replacement warranty expires. Fortunately, Autozone was nice enough to replace it for free.
I still live in Indiana. A few years later I will come back to report how long the second Duralast battery lasted.