Robert writes:
My wife has a 2000 neon [not shown] that I bought used 4-5 years ago with 125k. It is just passing 172k and is slowly falling apart:
* The AC no longer blows cold (just an AC flush?)
* Trunk lock broke (We get into the trunk via the back seat now and only store limited/small items there)
* Is burning oil — at 2800 miles since the last oil change I had to add 1.1-1.2 qt to get it to the correct area on the dip stick.
* We have never changed the tranny fluid that I know of, as the mechanic said it does not need it. Checking it, it is still a reddish color.
* The car is starting to rust on the lower left rear door.Outside of normal wear items & the above, we have had no major problems with the car. The interior still looks great and doesn’t have a single tear or stain. We are trying to decide if we should do some/all of the above fixes or simply get a Mazda 5, the “minivan-which-is-not-a-minivan” that my wife likes.
According to the revised EPA ratings our neon gets 22/28. The mazda5 also gets 22/28 and has a lot more cargo capacity. In real world driving with the above problems we usually get about 35mpg highway at 55-60 and low 20’s city. In the past 2 months we’ve done a 100% highway trip and done 40mpg @ 50-55mpg in the right lane.
Sajeev answers:
It’s always sad to see a good, loyal car fall into a downward spiral of reduced performance (be it oil consumption or a busted trunk lock) and physical deterioration. And if your Neon is part of the family, a trusted friend or a loyal soldier, this is a remarkably painful decision. Well, at least it is for me.
Given the abundance of Neons in the junkyard, you can quickly and cheaply fix the trunk, the rusty door, and get a low mile engine to keep things going strong for many more years. And, without a doubt, anything you possibly forgot in the list above. Use the money you saved (versus the cash outlay on another car) to get the A/C tested and fixed.
But wrenching on weekends is not an option for many, so maybe it’s time to part ways with the Neon. Since this Mopar is worth next to nothing on trade-in, I’d recommend an advertisement on Craigslist, aimed at the 16-year-old kid in dire need of a first car.With this in mind, there is no wrong move. And most importantly, feel comfortable and happy with your decision.
[Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com]
Many cars driven off the showroom floor in the past 25 years burn a quart of oil in 2000-2500 miles. I don’t see anything urgent there.
Better get that tranny serviced. And not just a pan drop either. That being said, don’t let them do one of those keep-the-pan-on flush and fills. Needs a new filter in there too.
I agree with PatrickJ: 1 quart of oil in 2500 miles is not bad at all, particularly at this age/mileage. The Neon is worth absolutely zero. Why not fix the trunk lock and drive it for the next 6 months. I say 6 months based on the midwest where I live, because a/c season is over here, and will not come around again until April or May. Even then, maybe a R134 recharge kit from WalMart will juice it enough to blow cold for awhile.
Each month you keep the Neon, save the amount of your expected monthly payment on your new car. Each month that you keep the Neon is free driving. If something else happens to the Neon, well you were planning to ditch it anyway, and you will have more money saved for your new ride.
As the old timer’s used to say ‘the only thing wrong with your car is the odometer.” I’d say if the Neon is a good fit, and a replacement isn’t in the budget, see if you can find a clean
low(er) mileage one that hasn’t been driven by a college student or a tuner and sell this one to an aforementioned student or tuner and keep trucking for a couple more years.
Best car to own is one that is paid for. My POS escort still runs and the AC works. It’s greatest feature is the clear title in the file cabinet. I’d do a clutch on this car because it’s cheaper than buying another car, doing brakes, tires, oil, etc, and maybe even something else the previous owner ignored.
The Neons are worthless in trade but overall decent small cars. Another car DCX decided to stop building right when they needed a small car the most. Despite it’s shortcomings they had a following among the youth.
Most car mfrs will say that burning a quart at even 1000 miles is ‘normal’. While I disagree with that, 2800 miles is excellent.
Transmission fluid and filter ought to be changed every 25-50k miles, so you’re way overdue. But it’s not to late to start. Don’t buy the lie that leaving the old stuff in there is better because removing the crud might ‘break a seal’. Just do it; it’s not that expensive.
The A/C problem could be a leaking evaporator, the fix for which is probably over $1000. My 98 Caravan has this problem. I just keep it topped off with a couple of cans of refrigerant for a lot less money.
Fix the other stuff and you’re way ahead of spending money on a new car.
Neons are deathtraps. I’d lose it stat, and not even think about sinking more money into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N13KOM1OpFY
Because driving is about more than saving money.
No info on where Robert lives. AC is not a big issue this time of year in most parts. Might be a minor refrigerant leak, or a compressor. Several hundred dollars repair cost difference between the two. Regardless, fixing it won’t cost more than several Mazda 5 monthly payments.
In view of new car depreciation, financing, insurance, and maintenance costs, at roughly 10,000 miles per annum relative gasoline expense should be a minor consideration. You can buy an awful lot of it for the new car down payment amount.
The trunk is a $50 fix with a junk yard latch.
As for the rest, forgeddaboutit!
Get rid of it. Now.
I have run cars/trucks up past 200k keeping careful expense records. These records showed me it does not pay.
If you fix the problems you have now, in short order other problems will pop up. They will be expensive and time consuming to fix. And in some cases the cost will be greater than the value of the car.
My namesake and favorite car a ’97 Escort Wagon is approaching this dilemma. It has 143K on it and runs fine and uses no oil. But the timing belt has never been changed as far as I know. It will cost more than the value of the car to replace it since it is more than I can handle.
Last July the alternator belt broke. Fortunately I was near a Ford dealer and limped in for a replacement. It cost me $87.
The car cost me $1300 with 100k on it in 2003. It has been a very good car, but it is time to part with it. I’m tempted to replace the timing belt, but I know that would be a mistake.
I will be putting it in a local consignment auction next spring. I don’t drive it much anymore since I have other cars/trucks. I just hope it makes it until spring.
I give you credit for getting 172K miles out of a Neon — I gave up on mine at 98K when the clutch went out and it started eating oil like yours. And yes, the doors were rusting out and the A/C was gone as well.
But I’m with the other Sean. Neons act like accordians in crashes, and you don’t want your wife inside one when it happens. If money is a big deal, look for a used Mazda5. You won’t have much selection, but if you take your time (and you can; the Neon’s not dead yet) you can find what you want for a fair price.
Get rid of it.
A Neon is just a cheap, disposable car. Why people put so much time, effort, and money into something that wasn’t worth much to begin with is beyond me. It’s like reusing your paper plates.
Give the worn-out Neon to some kid you know (maybe a relative) who would like to fix it up (and learn a few things). Then, go buy a local used car (Craig’s List) that’s a few years old and has low to moderate mileage, possibly a GM “orphan” that sells cheap because most people think there’s no parts available anymore (ridiculous). Check and see if there’s a good clean “CarFax” report on your intended purchase. Don’t pay too much attention to “Consumer Reports” magazine, except for comparing car specs. Most libraries have old “Consumer Reports” issues going back several or more years. Take their used car ratings with a grain of salt however, since it’s really about good maintensnce and driving habits by the former owner of the particular car you are interested in. If you have a good trustworthy mechanic, have him do a quick quality check of the brakes, fluids, etc.
And remember…buying a NEW car is the guaranteed worst financial investment you can ever make (with VERY RARE exceptions). Stick with used cars; let someone else pay for the “new smell” and the 12 miles on the odometer.
thalter : “Why people put so much time, effort, and money into something that wasn’t worth much to begin with is beyond me. It’s like reusing your paper plates.”
Because even econoboxes are worth something to begin with even used ones. Although I DON”T own an S class If I really wanted one I could buy one because instead of buying a new more expensive car I simply kept my existing cars running as long as possible and invested the savings over 20 years. Now I own several rental properties and the worst tenants that I usually have to evict for non payment of rent are those that purchased a new car rather than repairing their existing ride. We’re in a major recession right now and saving money is a very good thing and should not be unfathomable regardless of your income level.
Used Neons get little to nothing even the ACR cars. Only the SRT-4 cars command any decent resale value but you are looking for cars that likely were severely abused. One thing I’ve noted is that the Neon had capable handling and a bigger engine for a economy car – and with poor resale value made a great entrant to 24hours of LeMons.
However, I’d be concerned about reliability sakes as Neons were hardly known for longevity. I’d opt to upgrade to a Mazda5 and get a newer safer vehicle. It’ll probably be as much fun to drive on the streets as the Neon – especially with a worn suspension.
I wouldn’t define it as oil burning until you’ve hit a quart every 1,000 miles. What you have now is an acceptable level of oil usage.
The trunk lock may be fairly cheap. I’d call a dealer to get the cost of the part, and phone some locksmiths for a quote.
The AC may be cheap (freon) or expensive (i.e. compressor.) Not enough information has been provided here to know, but I’d probably be willing to recharge it, but not willing to replace the compressor.
On the whole, if you can live with it, I’d keep it until it’s dead or gets real problems that are tough or costly to fix, such as drivetrain or electrical work. Don’t spend a lot of money on it or do serious upgrades, but basic maintenance and the odd repair are no big deal.
In the meantime, save up your cash, because it will need to be replaced at some point. At this point, don’t worry about the resale value — it doesn’t have any.
Edit: 10 seconds on Google hints that you might be able to get an aftermarket lock for less than $25. The labor might be pretty modest, so it’s worth asking about, unless you don’t actually need to use the trunk.
I think keepingit over the winter and selling it before you need AC, or sellingit now.
As a husband I tell you, your wife likes the Mazda 5… that is an economical car, not too pricy, safer and reliable. How much is your time worth fixing that Neon? and reliability is money too. the one day you need to leave work early to pickit up from the shop, the other day you come too late to work and needed your wife to drive you to work and pick you up, the next all weekend you spend fixing the car, and so the story goes on every month and gets worse and worse.
sure the new Mazda will cost you payments, but besides oil changes and a large maintenance every 30,000 miles you don’t waste any time. and time is money, either at work, or spare time. Only keep the Neon if you are really really desperate for money, can’t get a car loan or other things.
Obviously a better used car is an option too. Obviously not a Chrysler sine you must be the luckiest man in the world whne your Chrysler survived so long (you could have won the lottery with that lick… but wasted it on a Neon :-)
John_K:
“What a load of BS! First off, who buys any Chrysler product with over 50K on it?”
Obviously not you, but many do, as well as Fords, GM’s, Hondas, etc., even your type of car.
“Secondly, a Neon getting 40mpg. Not possible.”
This is not at all uncommon for Neon owners. If you don’t believe it fine, but that doesn’t change the truth (as seen on among others sites, Allpar’s Neon owners forum).
“Lastly, there is no such thing as a Chrysler product reaching 172K.”
This happens more than Neons getting 40 MPG. My last Chrysler (LeBaron vert) had 198,000 miles on it when I sold it, two years ago. The 3rd owner (I was the 2nd) is still running it. On
Allpar’s 200,000+ mile club (started in the 90’s) There is a LeBaron listed with the same engine as mine with 414,000 miles on it – as of the end of 2001.
“There’s a reason Chrysler went bacnkrupt three times.”
Chrysler has gone bankrupt one time only, and that was after it lost it’s independence to Daimler and then Cerberus, and then only because some of the bondholders would not come to an agreement after everyone else including banks, unions, management and other bondholders did.
97escort :
My namesake and favorite car a ‘97 Escort Wagon is approaching this dilemma…I will be putting it in a local consignment auction next spring. I don’t drive it much anymore since I have other cars/trucks. I just hope it makes it until spring.
$87 for installing a replacement belt? Well, they don’t call them a stealership for no reason. But that isn’t much more than getting a cheap belt from AutoZone and having a clunker-friendly mechanic install it. And with that in mind:
97escort’s scenario is usually how it goes, and repairs not performed DIY get unbelievably expensive. It’s better to sell a running car on Craigslist than getting scrap value from a local junkyard.
But, foolish I know, I still think people can learn a little about basic car upkeep and save a ton of money. Everyone can do it, and its not very hard at all. And they’ll never have to sell their car, unless they really want another one. Foolish, I know. :)
“It is just passing 172k”
Put a screwdriver in the glove box. When it stops running you can take off the plates and leave it where it is.
My namesake and favorite car a ‘97 Escort Wagon is approaching this dilemma. It has 143K on it and runs fine and uses no oil. But the timing belt has never been changed as far as I know. It will cost more than the value of the car to replace it since it is more than I can handle.
I just did mine with a new water pump for under 100 dollars. They are easy. Even at a shop it should be no more than 2 or 3 hundred.
Update from OP>
We are just shy of 177k since I sent this to Piston Slap now with nothing more than oil changes * a wheel bearing. The mechanic got the ac “working” for just under $100 by flushing/adding. We haveignored the trunk and haven’t really missed it munch. If we really need it we can get into it through the back seats, and most of the time sticking purchases on the back seats works just fine.
The mechanic couldn’t find any sign of a leak even with the car up in the air but added some coolant and it blows cold again….IIRC it was $80 or maybe $100.
I tested it about a month or two after and it was still cold so….??
We also had a loud vacuum-cleaner type sound above 30mph coming from the wheels. It was the wheel bearing.
We had a new wheel bearing + tire rotation + oil change for $200. (the bearing + labor was $150 out of that).
My wife still likes the mazda 5 and we are still considering it. I have been looking around for used, although she has never had a new car and wants one just because she’s never had one.
We do have backup vehicles — An 05 STi with 29k on it (overdue for 30k checkup) and my gsx-r. Unfortunately she can’t drive either (no M class, and doesn’t know how to drive stick).
We do carpool together however, and I can drop her at work and pick her up after, so if the neon died outright, we wouldn’t be in a carless bind.
Thanks for all the comments.
if the neon died outright, we wouldn’t be in a carless bind.
There’s your answer. Just so long as the repairs remain cheap, you can keep driving it. I wouldn’t take it on long trips, but it should be fine for local travel.
Rob,
I wouldn’t spend too much more on the Neon. It looks like you got good value from it and now its probably time for it to move on. The used Mazda5 sounds like a great option if you have 2 kids or less. So are a whole range of “recession specials” currently on offer via autotrader and craigslist.
So basically you are telling your wife to drive the beater until it strands her somewhere (hopefully not in a bad neighborhood) while you drive a late model STi? Time to recheck your priorities.
I always make sure my wife has reliable wheels, even if it means driving a beater myself. The thought of my wife and kids stuck on the side of a road in the middle of a snowstorm or bad part of town is too much for me to bear.
To John_k:
I follow the “no flaming” rule, but you are more humorous than irritating.
There is a group of buyers that won’t purchase any make of car over 50K miles, and you might be one of them. However, I can assure you from over 30 years experience that a Chrysler product over 50K can be a very good choice for someone more interested in miles to the dollar than impressing the boys at the office. I can’t remember the last car I bought with less than that, except for the Mazda that (literally) had a part fly off on the street as I left the dealership. All manufacturers are building better cars today than ever, and most of them will comfortably and safely do 200K with proper care. I am not a Neon fan per se, but for entry level dollars it they do the job. By the way, I seldom sell a car until it is well over 150K and still get a respectable price. Have a nice life.
Good news on the AC, if it works after just a recharge and there’s no obvious leak (which your mechanic would’ve spotted), it will continue to work for some time. ACs do need recharging after a time, so that’s actually normal. I would just go to a junkyard and get a new lock for the trunk. Don’t worry about the oil, it’s just leaking a bit out of old seals and will not cause you any problems. That’s totally normal for an older engine. While buying a new car might be a nice treat, I will say that buying a slightly used car these days (with say 30k on it) is really the same thing with a huge discount. Cars a very durable now, for the most part.
Fixing your car makes more financial sense. None of the problems you describe are that complicated to fix.
Fixing your car makes more financial sense. None of the problems you describe are that complicated to fix.
Perhaps not, but if he’s not a DIY-er there’s no guarantee how much these repairs will cost.
On the other hand, the car probably has little book value at this point, so driving it “as is” until it breaks down probably makes the most financial sense. But Murphy’s Law says it’s going to happen at the most inopportune moment!
To answer Robert‘s question, yes you should buy the Mazda5.
I had a first year model and it was excellent. The ex still has it and it’s had no issues for the first 100000KM. It is functional, surprisingly fun to drive, and gets decent mileage.
This sounds so similar to my 1995 Neon Sport Sedan. The A/C was the first to go, then the electrical system, the brakes had to be replaced once a year, then the cheap, water-based paint began to chip away…it was one thing after another.
I’d like to see Chrysler die a slow and painful death.
What? No suggestion he should just buy an S Class ?
dolo54 : Good news on the AC, if it works after just a recharge and there’s no obvious leak (which your mechanic would’ve spotted), it will continue to work for some time.
If they did the UV dye test and never saw anything under the hood, it’s probably all in the blower motor in the dash: leaky evaporator core! Not fun…then again, maybe I shouldn’t be so pessimistic.
Thanks for all the comments guys!
I think we are going to keep driving this thing until we find a mazda5 & then donate it to the parents (who are down to a 1993 station wagon).
“Lastly, there is no such thing as a Chrysler product reaching 172K.”
This happens more than Neons getting 40 MPG. My last Chrysler (LeBaron vert) had 198,000 miles on it when I sold it, two years ago. The 3rd owner (I was the 2nd) is still running it. On
Allpar’s 200,000+ mile club (started in the 90’s) There is a LeBaron listed with the same engine as mine with 414,000 miles on it – as of the end of 2001.…
Agreed! Old FWD Mopars can go the distance; my old Reliant ran to 253K miles and was totally reliable up to that point (kept a spare MAP sensor in the trunk though). Reason: Changed all the hoses and belts on a schedule. Overheating kills 2.2s in a hurry.
Most people who make blanket statements usually are the ones who dump their cars well before 100K…not exactly the best source for long distance ownership…
Robster, though I am usually a big fan of high-mileage cars I am going to lean to the “get rid of it YESTERDAY” camp on this car.
Not only is that vehicle dismal from a crash safety standpoint, but at that mileage with rust in the body I cannot imagine it would perform very well in a fender-bender much less a good solid crash.
Get the Mazda and never look back. You will love it, and it will treat you well. We have a couple in the family now!
I rented a 5 for a thousand-mile road trip. Got 35 mpg climbing over a couple mountain ranges, handled good for an almost-minivan. Seriously thought about it when we were car shopping, it’s a nice package.
The Mazda5 is a nice car. It could use a little more zoom-zoom under the hood, but the milage is good.
Try to find one lightly used though. As Dave Ramsey says “The worst car accidents happen on the showroom floor.” Let someone else take that big depreciation hit.