Volkswagen and Porsche are about to make it official, as Volkswagen has now bought nearly 49.9 percent of Porsche. And though we’ve had plenty of time to get used to the idea, there are some troubling indications for the future of the Porsche brand in particular. As usual, the worries begin with an executive (in this case, VW/Porsche’s Michael Macht) explaining exactly how the company will be able to have its cake and eat it too.
Porsche needs to become a strong pillar of VW, as well as having its own production and research and development capabilities. It is important to use synergies as well as having independence… Any new model would have to be exclusive, sporting and make a good business case. In any segment Porsche has to be the most exclusive, as well as being the best quality and capable of delivering the best driving experience
Unsurprisingly though, these fine sentiments are mere prelude to the nasty reality.
Macht tells Autocar that
The Panamera platform could be used by other brands for models that are in development and at the concept stage
What, like an Audi A8? After all, as Jack Baruth notes in his review of the Panamera Turbo over at Speed:Sport:Life (a TTAC review was verboten), “the ‘Porsche of luxury sedans’ was, and continues to be, the Audi A8.” Jack’s prescience may have been more literal than he imagined. But who cares, right? The Panamera isn’t a real Porsche any more than a Cayenne is. Right?
When asked if the 911 platform was also on the table, Macht said it “could be made available to other VW brands”
Considering VW CEO Martin Winterkorn has laid out the challenge: “who plays the multi-brand game better than us?” the mind boggles just a bit. But since Porsche engines are said to be off-limits to other VW Group brands (er, except for the ones they already share), it’s hard to imagine a VW engine interfacing with a 911 platform (with say, a SEAT badge). The real worry here is the reborn rumors of a Roxster baby-ute and a Bluesport-based sub-Boxster. The combination of boosted volume, sharing unique platforms and rebadging Q5s and Bluesports creates a troubling picture of Porsche’s future. But maybe that’s just what happens when you gamble big and lose.
A brand for every taste! Is it GM all over again?
Hey, I’ve got an idea. How about marketing a mid-engined, two seater targa with a Volkswagen engine but Porsche badging on the outside. Give it a lower number in the Porsche nomenclature scheme like, oh, I don’t know . . . 914 or something like that.
Yeah, that’s it, that’s the ticket . . .
This does not bode well. I can only hope that VW doesn’t decide Porsche needs another Cayenne-like “success” and commission a Porsche CUV.
I’m VAG and porsche loyal. So seeing them scoot the beds a little closer doesn’t really disturb me. I know that I would buy a VW badged boxster with a 2.0T. The new golf and scirroco styling appeals to me and I think VW could make an attractive car out of the 987 and future platforms with that design language.
“mdensch :
October 22nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Hey, I’ve got an idea. How about marketing a mid-engined, two seater targa with a Volkswagen engine but Porsche badging on the outside. Give it a lower number in the Porsche nomenclature scheme like, oh, I don’t know . . . 914 or something like that.
Yeah, that’s it, that’s the ticket . . .”
I definitely see your point but, ironically, the 914 looks more interesting (dare I say beautiful) than any thing they’re making today.
The more I look at it the more I marvel at it. If someone asked me what a sports car should look like, none of my response would indicate 914 – and, yet, it works.
And , well, a gti version would be very tempting.
Anschluss?
I wonder if any of the B&B will cite Godwin, like they did when I posted the story about the guy who is suing Bugatti.
How about a porsche mini-van based off the touran. Just to show the folks that VW has jumped the shark
I think a rear engined Porsche inspired Beetle would be bitchin’.
http://escapefromjersey.blogspot.com/
Cause with Seat, Skoda, VW and Audi, the VW group really needs to keep on badge engineering.
The idea of sharing a “platform” is not in and of itself a bad thing. VW/Audi have shared platforms on cars that, at first blush, appear very different. And some might be surprised to find that a modified Golf platform serves as the foundation of the latest Passat–two quite different cars in most people’s minds. If the “bean counters” can be held back, and if the brands can maintain their own pedigrees it should not be too much of a problem.
Both are making money in this market. Both are smart. I have no fear for them after merger.
I have always thought of them as related anyway.
They had to take the wheels off? That bill is going to be over a grand. Seriously, to do anything to that drivetrain looks really expensive.
Did you have to use the word “anschluss”?
They car share as many platforms as they want imo. I want to have a good chance at getting a good car no matter what, I mean almost.
I don’t know, what’s bad about platform sharing again?
And the Porsche of luxury sedan is the M5 imo, perhaps a merger with BMW can one day happen.
Anschluss…a perfectly good German word, which means “link” according to the Mac’s translator.
Can I have Porsche handling, steering and structural integrity for VW-Audi prices minus the Porsche badge?? I would go for that in a heartbeat. Bring on the VW 911 or Cayman.
@npbheights: “Seriously, to do anything to that drivetrain looks really expensive.”
As a former Porsche owner – and there are surprisingly many of us – I can assure you that doing anything to any Porsche out of warranty isn’t “really expensive.”
It’s freaking un-Godly.
Porsches yield an incredibly well-balanced driving experience. To get that experience, certain components have to be assembled like a Chinese puzzle – the pieces fit together with incredible precision, but in order to remove and reinstall any single piece, the adjacent pieces must be removed and reinstalled as well, and in a very precise order.
Thus, once the warranty is up the owner has the pleasure of paying his or her mechanic several hundred dollars to replace a $4 coolant hose.
Maybe they can get someone to design a car that doesn’t look like a ballon shaped like a car.
I look at the cayman and I think of http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/05/alpine-renault-a110.html
and I say so close and yet so far. Why can’t the germans design a truly elegant graceful car?
Anybody remember the Porsche 914 from the 1970’s? As I recall, where we saw the word “Porsche” across that grille thing below the rear window, back home in Germany it said “Volkswagen” so there is a 40 year old precedent. Recently I saw an article detailing how VW – Porsche got to where it is today by sneaky and probably ill advised borrowing by the ex-Porsche leadership. That article said that the Panamera is a one-run model and won’t be re-engineered for any subsequent iterations. Had VW taken control sooner, the project would have been cancelled. Likewise the Cayenne won’t be updated once the current model runs its course. Given that Germany’s entire economy is dependent on its exports, it will be interesting to see how VW-Porsche works out.
@ fincar
Anschluss is more like “connection with”. I guess you could use “link with” too.
My German is crappy – but I survive when there thanks to my good humoured colleagues.
@fincar1 and others:
“Anschluss” has a very special meaning to people with a little more than passing acquaintance with German history. This was Hitler’s then-politically correct term for taking over Austria, so I guess most Germans would see the connection (or Anschluss) here, with giant VW taking over (in this context) tiny Porsche.
@fincar, PeteMoran, et al:
The term “Anscluss” can be translated as “connection”, or “connection to”, but I assume Mr. Niedermayer also hints at Hitler’s then-politically correct term for marching into and taking over Austria. I guess most Germans today immediately would make that connection. My deduction of the term here also made the connection to an aggressive giant taking over a tiny (in this context), somewhat reluctant “target”.
Watch out for Niedermayer using the term “Endlösung” in his next article on this subject. (Well, that is not appropriate in the VW-Porsche context, more in the GM-Saturn one).
Anschluss means “connection” or “coupling.” A “Telefon-Anschluss” is a telephone connection.
In the aforementioned context, it refers to Hitler’s takeover of Austria by Nazi-Germany, to which he had been warmly welcomed. Anschluss, an apt analogy ….
To make the new 914 from VW components, take a Polo chassis and remove the engine, gearbox, driveshafts and front suspension to the back of the car and hook up the steering wheel to the front wheels which have been given fancier struts or wishbones. Add a maximum of two seats and clad the result in a skimpy bodyshell. Make sure that it a pretty hard-core ride (to keep the hairdressers away) and price it below the VW Bluesport.
Basically, do what Fiat did with the X1/9; one parks outside my office every day and doesn’t look at all the worse for wear after over twenty years.
There’s a segment that’s missing in VAG. It’s a Kei-class car, powered by an two cylinder motor. VAG brought us engines arranged in a “W” formation. Now, a two cylinder engine arranged in an “A.” What should they call this Kei-class with an A in VAG?
1) The 914 is a beautiful car. (There I said it.)
2) Much of the need to remove so many parts to service a 911 come from placing 10 lbs of engine in a 5 lbs box. Porsche: develop the Cayman, drop the 911 (There I said it.)
3) It looks bleak for Porsche to get back into the top ranks of prototype sports car racing. Audi will contine to race the R15 TDI likely locking the Porsche Spyder out of further development cash. For those who admire the engineering of the Porsche 917 and 962 race cars of yore this is sad indeed. (No offense to the Audi R8, R10, R15, these are great cars too.) It is akin to ending the Yankees franchise.
From someone who has had an absolutely wonderful time owning a Porsche 924S (and is enjoying it so much that I don’t mind the maintenance costs), I don’t see a Volkswagen/Porsche tie-up as necessarily a bad thing.
And the new alliance certainly can’t do any worse than the Panamera and Cayenne.
tsofting, you summed it up for me and said it better than I could have. Thanks.
RE: the new 914. A great idea. Of course, it must look like it belongs the Porsche family – an offspring of mating with a 911- following the rules set by the Boxster,Cayenne,Cayman, Panamera et al.
So we will make it a tiny 911 – we can call it a “One Series”.
I concur with many of the above posts if Porsche would like to hit the lofty sales goals that have been mentioned in the past a “lower priced” not “cheaper” car needs to be built. A revival of the 914 or 356. Make it spartan and light weight, less electronics, somewhere between the size of an Elise and Boxster/Cayman.
But please instead of using the 1.8T or 2.0T Porsche really needs to use a Subaru Flat-4 mounted in the middle or behind the rear axle. A naturally aspirated base model and 260-300hp Turbo model would work. Let the Cayman keep getting the 911 hand-me down horsepower increases. The flat engine heritage needs to be kept.
If the weight and price can be kept down (ideally well under 3000lbs @ $25-35k) and practicality can be maintained (ie some trunk space, ability to mount a roof rack as all current P-cars do). Then Porsche you have a buyer.