Nissan’s alleged premium brand Infiniti is going to the dark side…well, the less refined side. The Auto Channel reports that Infiniti are going to put a newly developed diesel power train (produced in grand alliance with Renault) into their vehicles for the European market. They are aiming to put this oil burner into the EX and FX CUV’s, and later into the M saloon. (Which is not a new watering hole. It’s what the Americans would call a sedan. Which is a town in France. Or in Australia. Or in Indiana, Kansas, Minnesota and West Virginia. You figure it out. ED)
Infiniti has been in Europe for less than a year. Jim Wright, Vice President of Infiniti Europe, compensates lack of experience with lack of shame, and with a PR-writer prone to flowery prose (always a dead give-away for wannabe-luxury:) “The sales success enjoyed by Infiniti in Europe against a backdrop of financial uncertainty proves the cars’ appeal to a discerning audience. We have established Infiniti as the luxury performance brand thanks in part to the remarkable multi-award winning VQ petrol engine that powers most of the models in the range.” (And he didn’t refer to a kitchen stove. ED)
The rationale behind this move is obvious. To grow in Europe, you have to think European. What is common to all European luxury marques? (Except for two-bit players such as Bugatti or Rolls …) A good line of diesel vehicles. A must-have in Europe, despite American propaganda of falling market shares.
Wright said Infiniti had known that all along: “We were aware from the outset, however, that for Infiniti to offer a complete range a powerful diesel engine was a must, especially in the European premium SUV market where diesel represents the bulk of sector sales. Although we did investigate the possibility of adapting an existing large capacity diesel for Infiniti, we quickly established that nothing on the market met our exacting requirements. We needed an engine that delivered not just stunning performance but exemplary refinement too. For that reason, with the Alliance we decided to develop our own engine, a performance diesel worthy of the Infiniti badge.” (Seemingly, stilted sentences are as essential to the target group as Stilton cheese.)
Worthy it may be of the Infiniti badge, but I have a funny feeling it won’t be worthy of American customers, who, according to Euro trash lore, think diesel is something you buy in a truck stop. Or from your friendly illicit substance vendor.
Carkeys.co.uk gives us the low-down on the diesel engine’s figures. The engine will aim to churn out 235 BHP. The diesel engine in the Infiniti EX will give a 0-62mph time of 7.9 seconds and a combined fuel economy of 33.6mpg. The diesel engine in the Infiniti FX will aim to give a 0-62mph time of 8.3 seconds and a combined fuel economy of 31.4mpg. “Such is the refinement of the new diesel engine,” Infiniti’s Wright waxes poetic propulsion prose, “that the only way a driver will know what’s under the bonnet is by looking at the rev counter and seeing where the red line falls.” Particular drivers can sniff at the exhaust for diesel particulate. Gesundheit.
“Worthy it may be of the Infiniti badge, but I have a funny feeling it won’t be worthy of American customers, who, according to Euro trash lore, think diesel is something you buy in a truck stop.”
As long as you remain aware of the fact that it’s simply Euro-trash lore…
Back in the 70s and 80s pretty much the only US passenger car diesels came with a tri-star on the grille. (OK, there was an Oldsmobile diesel. It made a Trabant seem very desirable…)
The upper middle had no problem dropping serious change for a Benz that sounded like a coffee tin full of marbles. They still drop serious dinero for diesel Benzes, and VW product.
As a bbl. of oil yields far less diesel than gasoline, one can only push the percentage of diesels in the marketplace so far.
However, were Infiniti to federalize that thing, it’d probably sell in the US.
ED: Uh, not to be unkind, but rather than feel like my intelligence is being questioned by defining “saloon” (which I thought most enthusiasts would know when used in an automotive context)…wouldn’t it be easier for Cammy to learn the conventions of American English, much as I learned those of the Queen’s English when writing primarily for British readers?
BuzzDog: I have edited in the saloon explanation to shame the All-American posse grammaticalis into stopping from kvetching about Cammy’s style. As a thank you, I’m accused of insulting the higher intelligence of the dear reader. Rough crowd.
I’ve said it before: We’ll leave Cammy’s style, because it keeps the international flair, and because she insists on it.
Speaking of international flair, the whole masthead looks like TTAC has been invaded by foreigners: Niedermeyer, Niedermeyer, Schmitt, Mehta, Lang, Baruth. In that context, Cammy Corrigan should give you a homey feeling. Sounds like she comes from up the Hudson.
How about this: You guys stop niggling about her British spelling, and I’ll curb my urge to needle you with translations that insult your intelligence. Deal?
Should you not accept, then I’ll reclaim my long-lost national identity and write all articles in Bavarian.
Wow I thought my Bavarian ancestors were stuborn and proud!
BTW is that Cammy singing? Cause I’m trying to figure out how “Me and Bobby McGee connects to any of this stuff.
educatordan,
When you find out, let me know because I’m not too sure myself…
Okay, Bertel, I hang my head in shame (whimper, whimper). I didn’t realize/realise there were so many sick/ill feelings on the part of us American/Yank readers. Personally I like the British flavor/flavour and agree with you that the detractors need to give it a rest/be still. (wide grin on BuzzDog’s face)
I’m reminded of the time I presented my boss with a proposal I received from a former colleague in Britain. Unfortunately this boss was not particularly well traveled, and as I soon found out, not well read. When she questioned the credibility of the firm making the proposal “because they didn’t know how to spell ‘labor’ and ‘analyze,\'” I had to put on my best poker face and manage to construct a gentle explanation.
Which leads me to ask: Out of habit, I usually express measurements in both Imperial and metric units, as a courtesy to non-U.S. readers. Does this practice on my part come across as insulting to anyone?
FWIW educatordan, the song has the word “Diesel” in it.
I love it! Gratuitous cheesecake music.
I promise, no complaints on Cammy’s British English; I know a boot from a trunk and a bonnet from a hood. You can even call a wagon an estate or a shooting brake, no problem here.
So everyone can stop covering their fannies – oh wait – never mind that Cammy, I think that means something entirely different in Britain…
Hey, I’m down with “Me and Bobby McGee”…any song that mentions my birthplace in the first few bars can’t be half-bad!
I would think the crowd would have no problems getting the humour of explaining saloons to us colonists…
And spelling? Is somebody really whining about British English spelling? Really?
Clearly, porschespeed, you must be a Canadian, Australian, or a citizen of some other Commonwealth country. Citizens of the United States are not “colonists.”
No one, to my knowledge, on TTAC has complained about British English spelling. Speaking for myself, living 15 miles from the Canadian border, I am familiar with and use Canadian spellings when corresponding with my Canadian buddies. It’s only polite.
What people have complained about — and continue to complain about — is use of the collective plural by Ms. Corrigan, i.e., “…Infinity are…” in the first paragraph of the article above.
It is jarring, usually not used by British and Canadian media, and never used by U.S. media. It’s not a matter of right versus wrong, it’s a matter of needless distraction. Well, to be thorough, there are multiple distractions with this writter. This stubbornly-clung to grammar issue (seemingly based upon ego) along with the offhand anti-Catholic slur, made recently by the same writer.
Additionally, if TTAC has indeed decided to stick with the colloquial plural collective, I think the editors should at least be consistent when it comes to Ms. Corrigan’s articles. While its “Infinity are” in the first paragraph above, its “Infinity has” in the first sentence of the second paragraph.
It’s also spelt “Infiniti”.
Touche, Ms. Corrigan. ;)
Well, Detroit Todd, it’s “writer,” not “writter”.
And as far as the first sentence goes, as embarassing as it is, this Kraut is now compelled to lecture you about grammar.
In “Nissan’s alleged premium brand Infiniti is going” the “is” refers to brand. A brand IS singular, even in a drag queen’s English.
In “The Auto Channel reports that Infiniti are going” the “are” refers to Infiniti as the company,and the Brits have this jarring affliction for treating a company as a collection of many. I say: Let them.
I myself was brought up in the American version of the language. It is sad to witness how the spelling of same is going down the tubes. I’m amazed that the spelling mistakes in comments aren’t being attacked with the same vigor.
The chairman of one of my boards is American. Once during a BOD meeting, the Secretary was absent and the Chairman had to keep the minutes. In the minutes, he insisted on calling the meeting a “broad meeting.” Consistently. I had to tell him that there were no women present, that the meeting was narrowly focused, and that I refuse to put his minutes into a Hong Kong Company minute book.
In parting, let me say that if we don’t have other problems than “Infiniti are” then the world is a very happy place.
Surely, Mr. Schmitt, a man of your remarkable intellect can distinguish between a randon typo by an amateur poster, and the ongoing use of an irritating colloquialism by one of your (allegedly) professional staff.
My point was, has been, and remains that it is a needless distraction. We can, however, skip over articles that we find grating to read.
I meant “random typo,” with typo being short for “typographical error.”
On an apparently unrelated topic….
/Sarcasm on
So Infiniti are selling a diesel engine? – Wow that’s interesting!
/Sarcasm off
Not to continue on the editorial/grammatical/style-guide theme, but shouldn’t “diesel” always be “Diesel” since it is after all a proper name?
Diesel is to compression-ignition what Kleenex is to facial tissue – a name so synonymous with a type that the capitalization (capitalisation for Cammy) really doesn’t seem necessary. At least that’s what I’ve seen in most technical papers – diesel = traditional compression ignition (CI).
Edit: I should add the point is an area of debate: with HCCI and other premixed/homogeneous compression ignition types that use gasoline fuel, the practice of referring to CI as “diesel” may become obsolete by way of misnomer.
My AP and UPI stylebooks both state that the word is not capitalized in the context of “diesel engine;” of course, it is when referring to the surname of the inventor (Rudolf Diesel).
For some strange reason, that same rule does not apply to “Bunsen burner,” in which the inventor’s surname is properly capitalized.
To pour more Diesel, or diesel, on the fire …
Diesel refers to a combustion cycle and one of the types of fuel that can be burned to power that cycle, but not all fuels that burn in a Diesel are Diesel-fuel, or is it diesel-fuel, even though they are in a way, because they fuel a Diesel, or is it diesel?
And, by the way, why are we not calling the other common form of automotive IC engines Otto engines, and that pesky gas, Benzine, and of course petrol, by the more appropriate Otto-fuel? (or is it otto-fuel?)
Or maybe all of them should be simply just lumped together as auto-fuel (or is it Auto-fuel?).
And please don’t get me started on how to accomodate CNG, LPG, or H2… Oh heavens!
Robert.Walter:
We should not lump it all together as auto-fuel, because auto-fuel is already used to describe a fuel that contains an oxidizer. Auto-fuel is used where oxygen is hard to come by, like in torpedoes.
We can live with “colour” and “harbour”, but gimme a break, the “Infiniti are”s really trigger my grammar-checker! When the article says “Infiniti has” in the next paragraph, I rest may case – or not!
Is the point sinking into the heads of The Management? Ther are 15 comments as I am typing this, more than half are about the grammar, most people don’t seem too interested in diesels in Infiniti.
A saloon? That’s the old-west bars right? No wait that’s where you go to get you’re hair and nails done.
In all seriousness, do they market cars as 2-door saloons or 4-door coupè’s in Europe?
A diesel engine will certainly help to sell these cars here in Europe. And Renault produces some of the best diesel engines available – so this is good news. But I still don’t understand the overall strategy of Nissan here. They used to sell cars reasonably well adapted to the european market but, since the Renault-Nissan alliance, it seems that now their main focus is in not incurring in brand overlap (Nissan-Renault), rather than in selling cars… No more Nissan sedans, no more Nissan C-segment cars… I don’t get it. Are they going only for niche markets?
I am not a native speaker of English, but I confess that now I feel curiousity: I understand that infiniti is the ancient latin word for the plural of infinitum (=infinity in English). (Is not that I talk ancient latin – is that I have found the word a number of times when reading about mathematics in English – some ancient words still permeate technical languages). So, is “infiniti” a strange word for a native speaker of English? Should I use “infinities” instead?
The word is quite familiar to native speakers of English; however, the spelling (“Infiniti”) is not.
I tend to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and assume that an incorrect spelling of the marque as “Infinity” is not due to ignorance, but rather due to the habit of spelling the word correctly in all other contexts.
Detroit Todd,
Humor my good man, humor. My family has been in the United States, since it really was ‘the colonies’ – 1658 to be precise about it. Yes, my relatives were revolutionaries. So, short of being a Native American, I’m sure my American citizen bona fides are quite in order.
As to spelling, to loosely quote the publishers of the OED, “Dictionaries are descriptive, not proscriptive…”.
I’m not sure why everyone is so hung-up on grammar, when, as far as I can tell, she’s speaking current British English. Not American English, but c’mon. We live in a country where people now use apostrophes to make words plural.
Cut the lady some slack…
Bertel,
Please, minimum wage laws? Safety rules? That stuff is gotten around everyday in the USA. Sure, if you’re running a Bosch factory in China the rules might be followed. Or you’ll have bribed the right officials so as not to worry.
I’ll take your word on the movement of money – my only friends who directly owned manufacturing in China got tired of the corruption and left 8 years ago.
‘Officially’ and ‘legally’ you can do lots of things in lots of countries. Good luck doing most of them in most countries unless you are well connected and able to put up with an an even more corrupt government than in the US.
Dragging the comments back to Infiniti/Renault diesel engines, I’d like more details. Infiniti models in the US tend to consume a fair amount of the more expensive premium unleaded gasoline. Diesel might make economic sense vs. premium unleaded depending on how much more the diesel engine adds to the vehicle price.
Cammy, Americans don’t reject diesel engines. We reject the bend over and grab your ankles bad ownership experience of European brand cars. Our lifestyle is very car-centric so any time the car spends in the shop really messes up our day. At the right price, I would expect Japanese brand diesel cars to sell very well in the US.
George – I don’t care if the brand is Japanese, American or European. As long as gas and diesel prices are basically equal, diesel will be a niche product here.
Put differently:
That EX mentioned in Cammy’s post does 0-62 in 7.9 seconds; a 2008 tested by Car and Driver did it in 6.2. Which one will sell better?
Thankfully we seem to have turned the pedantic corner and returned to Infiniti. :)
One issue with diesel fuel in the USA is the cost. Here in New England, diesel is around the same cost of premium gasoline, so most people are not predisposed to look at a motor that will cost them more at the pump. We are not all enterprising like some here who make their own bio-diesel. There is usually an extra cost in the purchase price of the diesel engine too. It would seem to be an uphill battle here.
I don’t mind the use of plural for organizations and groups. The English had a monopoly on English before we went our own way and are entitled to their usage conventions.
Back on topic, is this the same engine that we are / maybe aren’t supposed to get in the Maxima on this side of the pond? Or is Nissan just hoping that we’ve forgotten all about that?
Nah, this is not an Anglo-ism, it is a Corrigan-ism.
And here I thought the “Hills Are Alive With the Sound of Music.” When do the Brown Shirts arrive to stop the talk of Sabbtimism?
If BMW can’t give away the brilliant 335d here in the States, Infiniti will have less luck.
The diesel fanboys don’t get it: unless the price differential between gas and diesel takes on European proportions (i.e., gas costs twice to three times what diesel does), it won’t catch on here. And that’s doubly true for luxury brands.
FreedMike,
The VW dealers who can’t keep diesels in stock would certainly disagree with you, and I suspect there are some Mercedes dealers who would as well. The difference of course is that the aforementioned marques have made a strong reputation for durability and economy, whereas BMW (and many others) have yet to be proven in the US market. It’s true that cheaper diesel would speed up adoption, but the cost of the fuel is certainly not the only factor.
@Btrig:
http://media.vw.com/index.php?s=43&item=546
VW sold 41,000 diesels in the US last year. That accounted for about 20% of its total sales.
Roughly speaking, that’s about as many cars as Mitsubishi – a dead brand walking – sold altogether in 2009.
This does not suggest some massive demand for diesels – in fact, the reason for the waiting lists you mention is lack of supply. And what demand there is coming from dedicated enviros, or people who have super-long highway commutes. Joe Compact Car Driver, with his 30-mile daily commute, has absolutely no reason to pony up $2500 more for a diesel VW that’s slower than the gas version, when the fuel is basically the same cost.
Now, if this were Europe, where gas is two or three times more expensive than diesel, then diesel would achieve mainstream acceptance here. But not until then.
Now, if this were Europe, where gas is two or three times more expensive than diesel, then diesel would achieve mainstream acceptance here.
Citation needed.
@Bertel –
Has there been a major movement in pricing recently? Last I checked (a few months ago) there was a HUGE disparity between gas and diesel that seems to have disappeared. What’s up with that?
But it looks to me like diesel is a LOT less expensive in most countries – not by half (my bad), but certainly there’s a distinct price advantage.
FreedMike,
Forgive me, but I think you are simply placing too much emphasis on fuel prices and missing some other points. The durability and lower maintenance costs of diesels are also pretty serious advantages.
Some of us even prefer the low end push (greater torque) off the line to
high-revving stoplight racing.
Of course it’s also true that one can go considerably further on a gallon of diesel fuel than on a gallon of gasoline, which makes comparing only per volume unit pricing for the fuel a little short sighted. And while not all diesel lovers are all that concerned with fuel economy, a 3.0 liter diesel V6 Touareg can pull an Airstream trailer just fine — and when it’s not being used for towing still get 30 MPG or more on the expressway.
Maybe you should’t be so dismissive of “diesel fanboys” who “don’t get it”. :)
Those of you who keep complaining about perfectly normal British usage and grammar are looking a bit silly to those of us who actually do much reading… And FWIW, I’m a native-born US citizen. Way to disprove the stereotype of Americans as ethnocentric, semi-literate oafs, y’all! ;)
I don’t care too much about the differences in British writing. I can understand what’s being said, so that’s fine with me. This is “teh interwebs” after all, so seeing a coherent sentence is good enough.
Anyway, I’m disappointed that no torque number is listed in the carkeys.co.uk article. Anyone that’s ever driven a diesel passenger vehicle knows that it’s the most important number along with fuel economy. I’m also surprised that they started selling Infiniti models in the UK without a diesel option to begin with.
Brettc
According to the Auto Channel link, the engine puts out 550 Nm of torque.