According to Acura’s press release:
On sale at Acura dealerships on November 23, the 2011 TSX sedan with 2.4L I-4 engine has an MSRP of $29,610 for both manual and automatic transmission models. Equipped with the available Technology package, the MSRP is $32,710. The TSX sedan with 3.5L V-6 engine has an MSRP of $35,150, or $38,250 when equipped with the Technology Package.
The 2011 TSX Sport Wagon goes on sale December 21 with a base price of $30,960. When equipped with the available Technology Package, the TSX Sport Sedan will have an MSRP of $34,610 [emphasis added].
But even if we ignore Acura’s confusing typo, there’s still plenty here to not understand. Why is the “Wagon Tax” $1,350 for standard TSX models, but $1,900 for Technology Package-equipped sportwagons? Put another way, why is technology $550 more for five the five-door models? And another thing: if there’s no price difference between the manual and automatic transmissions, why isn’t a manual transmission even an option on the Sportwagon? Why not put a price on the autobox and let Wagon buyers get their Technology Package for the same price as sedan buyers? Remember when things were simple in Acura pricing-land?
What’s so hard to understand? No manual transmission for the wagon = disregard all text pertaining to wagon.
More to the point though, if this is true, Acura has its beak shoved up its tailpipe all the way to the cat.
A 4-cylinder Honda wagon with no manual transmission option? That’s pretty weak.
Unless their automatics have seen a major improvement in the past two years, Hondas pretty much need a manual.
I am shocked that the vital demographic of people who complain about lack of wagons and manual trannies on forums, but never buy any, is not properly served by Honda.
Could care less about wagons, but every new veh. I’ve ever bought (the last in 2004) has had a manual trans.
That’s not entirely true. Even though the take rate might be 1 in 10 for manual versus auto transmission on a wagon, without it I’ll buy the Forester versus a Legacy/Outback wagon.
@Pete Zaitcev:
Customers for this are going to be Honda buyers and wagon buyers all at the same time. This is one of those places where I think offering a manual transmission would be a good idea.
Manual, wagon driving former Acura owner here. If this had a stick then it’d be high on my list of new cars to look at, but it don’t so it won’t even make the cut.
heh
not shocked here, but I am a wagon buyer… and a manual buyer (at times). This came out about 15 months too late for me. Plus it’s a lot uglier than the previous edition euro accord wagon.
Pretty much no one in this class of wagon offers a manual. BMW does, but try finding one without special ordering… ain’t happening.
I certainly did – 6spd manual Saab 9-3 Sport Combi, and planning to buy a 6spd manual 328i Wagon next year.
No manual, no sale. And I think this is pretty universal for people who DO want a manual. You may only sell 1 in 10 of the manuals, but that is probably 9% of sales that you will LOSE if you don’t offer one.
+100
Right on Pete. Manufacturers are skipping MT because people don’t buy them. Save the Manuals!
I think the issue is that most cars aren’t sold with stick, so it’s safer (for your career as a product planner) to assume that trend will continue with all future models. OTOH, some models at some prices, do sell quite well with manual transmissions (GTI to start, there are other good examples of real volume out there). Whatever percentage of total sales manuals are still represents a staggeringly large number of cars yearly.
That’s because the only decent driving wagons that are available are expensive luxury wagons. This would be much better if it came from a Honda dealer for $6k less, since all it is is the euro Accord. I’d buy one.
Is their no one working for an American and now Japanese manufacturers other than Mazda and Subaru that would ever consider driving a car with a manual transmission? I know their take rate on a manual is probably about 1 in 10 – but a sale is sale.
This summer after looking for used 5 door CUV wagon with a manual transmission on dealer lots, I wound up buying on Craigslist.
Car dealers don’t get or care that we are out there, albeit a small market and I’d bet dollars to donuts American car execs feel the same way.
Cadillac cares. Well, Bob Lutz did at least.
What’s confusing? The Tech package probably includes a power tailgate and/or other features that are unique to the wagon.
Also, this will be my last reply on TTAC until the issue that prevents replies from iPhones is fixed.
Screw the pricing.. I remember when things were attractive in Acura-Land…
Does the Sport Wagon’s technology package include rear seat entertainment? That would go a ways towards explaining the price differential. This car is going to sell in tiny numbers and I’m sure it wasn’t worth certifying and inventorying two transmissions. It is pretty admirable that Acura offers manuals in TSX and TL sedans.
Manual tranny or I’m not buying… I’d like to buy a manual tranny four cylinder wagon with style from SOMEBODY when the time to buy our next ride. 209K miles and counting…
The fact that Acura continues to offer a manual transmission on any TSX models is to be commended. Every additional option and configuration means more mix complexity and we constantly see companies ditching engine/transmission/body type variation which fall below certain expected sales levels. So, given market realities, the answer to the transmission question is that Honda/Acura didn’t expect the incremental number of takers to be high enough to justify offering that configuration.
To me, the big news is that Acura is offering the wagon with the four cylinder engine instead of insisting that you buy a V-6 if you want a wagon. Mazda did that V-6 only routine with the few Mazda-6 wagons it sold in the US.
So far Acura hasn’t released details on what is included in the Sport Wagon Technology Package, so I will reserve judgment on that issue until we have more information.
Now, if you want to find something to jump on Acura about in that press release, here is the real whopper: “Acura has always put much emphasis on building an interior that is exceptionally quiet …” Bull dinky. High levels of road/tire noise have been a chronic issue with Honda products, including my ’06 TSX.
.from the Acura press release…things may improve…
“for 2011 the TSX has even greater cabin serenity thanks to items such as a new acoustic glass front windshield, even thicker side glass, increased use of sound-deadening insulation, improved floor mats and new underfloor covers.”
ok, this is a retarded option set up that needs to be resmarted. People who buy wagons in todays market buy wagons becuase they are wagons and not SUV/CUV/stoopit high-top sneaker looking hatch back AWD wannabe.. things.
Take the wagon (good looking car except for the beak) give it a manual. make th emanual come ONLY with the RDX turbo 4 engine. only offer the turbo 4 engine in a wagon with a stick. AWD would be nice, too.
Acura/Honda has to stop selling ugly cars that go slow. It’s a bad marketing strategy.
Spent yesterday driving an RDX…the only problem I could see was that the blown four and the sh-awd system were under a truck body.
Put this in the TSX WAGON frame and you’d have an Audi-Subaru killer. I mean, really, you have the parts, they work darn well.
At least put a stick in it……
Make mine maroon, please. This is a car I will head to the dealership and buy new. And I don’t ever buy new….
The problem with the TSX wagon is that I can get a really nice, comparably equipped Jetta wagon (diesel, 2.0t, etc) with MT and have several thousand left over for a repair and mod budget.
My VW aversion is fairly strong, but loyalty can almost always be bought.
My thought -errr, my plan exactly….
The Jetta is a full size smaller than the TSX.
John, we mentioned it below. The current TSX is definitely bigger than the older, jetta-sized version, but after sitting in it, I’m very reluctant to move it up a full size class. It’s sort of an in between.
Well, the TSX badged as an Accord in Europe is really a contender to the Passat, so if you choose a Jetta you’ve been ripped off, and you get the most boring little car in the world (apart from Toyota offcourse but that’s not fair game) It’s even a better car by far than the Passat, unless you just have to have a German car because you ‘enjoy the silence’.
Imagine how impressive the TSX sedan and wagon would be with the 2.2 i-CDTi engine and 6 speed manual. In fact diesel sale take rates over their stablemates with gas engines is actually almost even. Honda wouldn’t give us the diesel engine b/c it could not pass emissions with an automatic (only could do it with a manual). IIRC that’s not the Honda I remember – giving up easily. I guess Honda is better off spending the better of its resources for the past decade on hybrids b/c those are selling like hotcakes as the Prius alone sells on average up to 8x more than all of Honda’s hybrids. I’m wondering if GM’s old mgmt team was hired by Honda…
The take rate on diesel wagons is way way higher than 50% (in the US at least). We’re talking more like 80% where available.
Wagons do have a higher take rate but I wanted to refer to the average including sedan counterparts.
Ash78, I agree. It’s like Acura is plugging their ears anytime someone brings up VW in their product planning meetings. You can get a loaded, very nice, VW wagon for $29k, with an interesting engine and styling far better than anything with the Acura beak. Acura on the other hand, plans to start their wagon at 29k, and fitted to an engine that really could only go head to head with the base VW mill (at least when paired to an Acura automatic). Not only that, but there’s no stick! Who the hell do they think is buying their wagon anyway, because it sure as hell isn’t appealing to the same people who buy expensive new Audi’s and BMW’s. Acura just isn’t that prestigious a car company, they’ll be fighting it out with VW and CPO programs the whole way.
I would recommend this car as at least worth a look if it came with a stick, despite all that. Now it just adds to my list of problems with Honda. Let’s add overpriced and undercontented to the list I guess.
Ted: I’ll add that the only reason I’m so opinionated on this issue is that I really want to like Honda. I admire Honda, but don’t really LIKE them on a personal level.
They promised a diesel Accord for the US (at the same time they killed the V6 hybrid). Never happened. They hinted at an Accord wagon–would have been a no-brainer, since even at 10% of total sales for the Accord, that’s still more cars than most manufacturers sell in all configurations combined. Instead, we got the Crosstour–because, of course, Honda has to answer Toyota tit-for-tat (Venza). We wouldn’t want any of the executives to get confused when reading their market share reports ;)
And now they killed the Element, one of the only unique and interesting vehicles in their stable. That thing could have been refreshed in dozens of different ways, all of them an improvement.
And let’s not even get started on Acura’s stylistic moves…the TL and TSX (3 years ago) were two of the most handsome vehicles on the road, something almost everyone agreed on…
I am an Audi A6 Quattro Avant owner who finds this care more than appealling. Just sayin’….and the a friend just bought a Jetta Diesel wagon…her OTD price was north of $40k…so your $29k number, while perhaps factual, doesn’t represent the real-world cost of Jetta Wagons. And since the Jetta is the smaller platform than the Acura (the TSX is comparable to the Passat)…the Jetta to the TSX wagon is kinda applesy-orangey…IYKWIM.
Ash78, I’m ikn 100% agreement, I love the Fit and the “idea” of cars consistent with the Honda brand, but I’m seeing less and less of that from the brand. I loved the old styling of the TSX and TL as well, enough for me to forgive the fwd at that price.
Marc MacInnis, $40k for a jetta wagon is absurd, she got ripped off. I’ve put a few people in these on a friendly level (I don’t work at a dealership) and while there’s enough demand you won’t be arguing them down they stop at just around $29k msrp, and that’s what everyone who’s bought one has paid in my experience. Maybe Canada and taxes (they mostly get hosed on Euro sourced cars)? Or a region with few dealerships at a very low inventory moment? Crap financing?
Overall my point was that the Acura will be competing with the Jetta and used BMW’s and Audi’s, and that demo. certainly does buy stick. I understand that new German wagons are typically bought by the super wealthy only, and in automatic, but if you aren’t moving BMW, Audi, Merc at $45k+, or if your wagon has a 4cylinder, then you need to sell it with a stick. I think this was done in a rush, as a careless swipe meant to appease the hate for the Crosstour. I doubt any real thought went into this product coming to the states.
Mark – I just ran the numbers on the VW site and built a loaded out Jetta TDI wagon with all the options. $29K tops. Not saying they didn’t sell her etched windows, extra warranties and so forth.
She must have financed, added every single factory option and dealer option to even attempt to get close to that number (10k is a huge delta). d is looking at the total paid including interest as her final price – as I fully optioned a Jetta wagon TDI with DSG and came around $30k MSRP. Anyway you can’t have a $25k spread for an entry level car. Base model is $15k for the Jetta 2.slow sedan and 19k for the wagon.
Mark,
I’m not sure how you can option a tdi wagon up to that price–my local dealer has a couple of them on the lot, mid-range equipment, both for under $26k sticker. You can do a 2.0t wagon (SEL) up to around $30k sticker. I believe that model was canceled this year…
The new TSX is indeed a little bigger than the last one (which was almost identical in size to Jetta), but this thing would still be dwarfed by a current Passat wagon–those things are huge, especially behind the c-pillar. But if you want to come back to pricing, the TSX and Passat are similarly priced in many ways.
Is there going to be a V6 wagon?
For this $$ you can get the fully-loaded larger Passat wagon with change left over….
but then you wouldn’t have the Acura/Honda reliability or resale.
Tough choices…..
I’ll give them a “C” for trying, and I even like Honda/Acura. Sure, this is more “wagon” than almost anything else available, but it still misses the wagon plot by a big margin. So, some simple instructions for simple-minded designers and marketing folks:
–a wagon has to have a great greenhouse all the way to the D-pillar. That last side window should be as tall at the tail end as the tallest section of glass on the side of the car. Forget the swooping character lines–give us real windows and real rear visibility.
–the rear window has to be near vertical and the roof should be essentially horizontal from the top of the windshield to the top of the tailgate. It’s supposed to be a wagon, it’s all about closing the tailgate over the biggest box possible. If that were not interesting to me, I’d just buy a sedan!