It was the best of cars. It was the worst of cars. A silver 2001 Saab 9-5 was slowly making it’s way through the auction lane. It was a base model… and yet loaded. This silver 9-5 base came with a leather interior, sunroof, a 9 speaker Harman-Kradon stereo system, and heated seats for the front and rear. It was also a museum piece. No interior wear. No paint chips. The only thing worn on it was the Saab emblem in front… which is typical. 60+ dealers were in the lane that day. But most were looking at the usual finance fodder. I bought the Saab for $2250 (plus $115 fee) and weighed my options.
Sell: Who buys a Saab? Well that’s a question with many answers. When I put this vehicle up on Craigslist and Autotrader I spoke with quite a few folks who were looking for an Audi A4, Subaru Outback or Lexus IS. The Saab 9-5, in sedan form, doesn’t have the prestige or performance that makes it a worthy contender to the 3-Series. But it is a loaded European sport(y) sedan that has the halos of high-speed Jets and modern day Yuppiedom. I put a target price on this vehicle at $3900.
Lease: Finance fodder folk will rarely understand how to maintain this vehicle. Synthetic motor oil, buggy electronics, and parts prices halfway to the moon make the Saab a bad bet. But then again, this car was made for a decade. Plus I could always offer to provide oil changes to these customers at a much lower cost than most other places. I have a mechanic friend who charges $10 for an oil change if you simply bring the oil and filter, and he has a lift to boot which allows him to detect suspension problems in the early going. The Saab could be financed at $1000 down, $65 a week for 30 months. A far stronger profit but if I sold it to the wrong customer, I would be screwed.
Rent: Are you kidding? Cars like these attract white lightning to your lot. Folks who rag out the vehicles before paying up on the note. Ex-con’s who are trying to finagle their way into the best ride possible. I could have this go for a daily rate of $25. But it would take three months of rentals to break even on this type of unit and generally, rental customers tend to be harder on vehicles.
Keep: My wife chose and drove this car for a short while. Why? Well, It’s extremely safe. Gas mileage seems reasonable. Did I mention it’s silver? The features don’t hurt and like most non-enthusiasts, she cared more about the color and the interior than the ‘drive’. Saabs have a reputation for engine sludge. So I removed the valve cover gasket and oil pan to look for deposits. Both were perfect. Truth be told my wife would have been perfectly happy if for one fatal flaw. Her MPG’s came out at 19.5… and 90+% of her driving is in town. Compare this to the 42 mpg she gets with the 2003 Civic and it really is no contest.
I sold it. With 105k miles and an excellent prior owner it may have been the perfect finance vehicle. But when someone offers you a quick strong profit in this business, you take it. The Saab was ‘bought’ right so I could sell it without having to adjust my target that much. But I did. A decent fellow who was very well versed in Saabs came by and offered $3500. Sold…too cheap? Yep. Thankfully, my mentor taught me a valuable lesson back in the day. Never regret a profit. I never will.
You could have advertised it on a Saab forum and perhaps found a good home. I only mention it because Saabs are the sorts of rides that need an owner who understands and appreciates them.
When I put this vehicle up on Craigslist and Autotrader I spoke with quite a few folks who were looking for an Audi A4, Subaru Outback or Lexus IS.
If I might ask, what prompted people shopping for those vehicles to contact you regarding this one?
Upscale wagon/hatch fans. I know I look at those three, plus the Passat, when I was shopping.
Nice profit, too. Apparen tly you did the best in the case.
How many miles were on the car?
I’ve always had a thing for the Aero wagon. Maybe one day if and when I have time to put into a car.
Did you check it for sludge? I ask because even well-maintained B05s and 235s gum up. My 9-3 of similar vintage was varnishing despite a regular diet of synth. Oh, and it eats DI cassettes for breakfast, too. One nice thing is that this car does share some bits with the Saturn L-Series and it’s not quite the oddball the 900/9-3 was.
You do have to own one to understand and forgive it, and I couldn’t forgive two transmission rebuilds in three years, but the boost and the seats made it a hard, hard call. It’s a kind of bizzaro Panther.
Well, he said he opened up the valve cover and dropped the pan…no sludge. We have two 9-3s of the same vintage as what you had, and no tranny (manual) issues, and no sludge. Go figure. DI Cassettes are a weak point imo.
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs go broke.
Noooooo….Pigs get slaughtered.
The original that was corrupted/co-opted by the wall street boys goes:…”pigs get fat; hogs get slaughtered”…
I like the ample greenhouse, among other things
People who complain about the DI cassettes are usually people who don’t put di-electric grease on the spark plugs. Yes, that requires a certain amount of brand-awareness.
The terrible city mileage is always surprising. I just filled up and my SID is telling me 14.5 MPG (with regular fuel, not premium). Yes, I do a lot of ugly city driving — for 2 miles — but it is painful.
It’s not just people who don’t grease the plugs: the ECU programming took a lot of revisions (six? seven? more?) to get right and caused all sorts of problems, and some production runs of the cassette weren’t good.
Not just grease – folks who change their spark plugs only by virtue of buying a new car are good candidates too.
@psarhjinian – I do not recall to many issues with ECU, it was PCV that had 6 revisions and was often blamed for sludging (along with rather stupid routing of exhaust pipe).
had a 2002, similar spec (base engine, but fully loaded otherwise) on a lease deal. i was supposed to get an audi a6, but the salesperson at the audi dealer pulled some shady stuff during negotiations.
the harman kardon sound system was fantastic. great for highway driving – comfortable seats, smooth ride, great passing power, and 30-35mpg. had one of the coolest cupholders I have ever encountered.
the delivery was delayed by two weeks because Saab somehow lost the car after it was shipped to the US. Piss poor reliability (transmission went during the first MONTH of ownership), dealer’s service department was incompetent and awful to deal with (loaner? what’s a loaner?). as much as I like the styling, I can’t ever set foot in a Saab dealership ever again.
Probably sell well in the NE to pipe smoking, patched sweater wearer professor type.
I had a 2000 9-5 Aero, sans pipe and sweater, and put Nordic Stage lll good for over 335hp/trq. Great gas mileage and robust 5-speed transmission to handle the power bump.
Lots of competition for the 10 year old car these days.
“Well, It’s extremely safe.”
Safe, yes. Extremely, no. 4/5 stars in Euro NCAP.
Yep – ’02 + models are five stars.
Either way, you’ll have a hard time finding something -as- safe for three grand.
As far as mileage goes, I thrash the ever-loving sh*t out of my 05 Arc (much quicker than the base ’01) in 50/50 mixed and get 22.
01s supposedly have nicer/more leather. My 05 is a higher trim line but lacks real leather seat back pockets, rear heat, and vented front seats. But it also has rain sense, park assist, and 220hp.
I got my ’05, minty fresh and with 58k, from a dean of economics at nyu. 100k cpo bumper to bumper good ’till september of 11. I’ve put 30k on it in a year (!!!!!); lost an A/C compressor and the front speaker grille popped up. Solid as hell otherwise. Paid 9k.
BMWs, Mercs, Audis, you respect. Saabs, you love. I’ll drive mine 20 miles to get a soda just to be in it.
Sorry, car reviewers – power, materials, and fit-finish aren’t what make you love driving.
The Germans are trophy wives… Nice place to visit; wouldn’t wanna live there.
@PaulW
Staged crash tests is one thing, real life data from insurance company (try google “Folksam”) is something more valuable in my view.
Sounds like a lot of car for not a lot of money and you even found the right buyer. He got a good car at a fair price that allowed you to make a couple of dollars. This was a win for everyone involved.
From Saabnet.com
“Safest car tested by EuroNCAP in 2000
The result of such a high level of safety engineering was the first ever EuroNCAP four-star rating � the top level of crashworthiness. Following the tests last year, the EuroNCAP consortium stated that the Saab 9-5 was the safest car they had ever tested.
The EuroNCAP consortium is comprised of the Swedish Road Administration, the British and Dutch Ministries of Transport, the EU Commission, Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA), Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil- Club e V (ADAC), Alliance Internationale de Tourisme (AIT) and International Consumer Research and Testing (ICRT)..”
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/models/2002/pr5.html
I’ll be darned, you’re right. I guess there was a time when anything less than 5/5 stars was not considered a failure. I’ll meet you half way, “Well, it WAS extremely safe.”
I never understood Saabs — overpriced, four cylinder, FWD car. Get an Accord and save yourself a lot of money and trouble.
Yep, it is a lousy car for an A-to-B-er, but can be great for those who value being en route as much as arrival.
O/T: Was the radiator full of Kramer’s blood?
Who buys a Saab?
A question that Saab itself is still trying to answer…
I’m no businessman but US$ 1K seems fair enough to me. It’s roughly 50%.
Seemed like a nice car. I would like to own one Saab at some point. I’m more inclined toward 900/9-3 than 9-5.
$2,250. Base price in 2001 was $33,995. A good negotiator could have gotten it for that price with the options discounted out. That is 93% depreciation. Looking at it another way, how many cars manage to depreciate 30 cents a mile for almost a decade? No wonder the OC Saab dealer has to start negotiations at $10K off MSRP on the new ones.
I don’t know that you sold it too cheap. The reason my family fleet inclu two ’99’ 9-5s is that the trade-in value of an aged Saab is nil — $1500, was the offer as a trade on the missus’ Lexus. The old Saabs have better seats than the newish Lexus, run like bears in all weather conditions, and are very dependable as long as you maintain them, If you can’t/don’t want to maintain your car, don’t buy a Saab, simple as that. Took my ’99 out on the highway today — 4-cyl turbo, 5-speed, Saab perf exhaust, seat warmer on roast, Cream’s live version of “Crossroads” on the stereo — came off the entry ramp and accelerated briskly enough to keep me back in the seat right up to triple digits w/out so much as a slight hiccup and with every indication the Saab was ready for more. They’re highway cars, but around town my Saab’s mpg is no worse than my CR-V. But I feel silly playing Cream in a Honda.
You and your buyer got a great deal on a simply wonderful car. Saabs are great. Euro cars, in general, at this age are excellent bargains. Saabs particularly so. Yes, parts can be expensive to replace, but they are so consistent in their maintenance/repair needs, it’s a case of “better the devil you know” with Saabs. Carry a spare DIC in the trunk, get PCV 6 done, and you are gold. Otherwise it’s just a GM car. Not especially refined, but will run forever with care. Best seats in the business, a FWD Saab is a trooper in the snow and will keep up with any AWD Japanese thing.
Notice what types of OLD cars you see on the roads and for sale still….its mostly Euro cars that people WANT to take care of. The rest are just disposable. A cool second gen Legend coupe would be cool to have around, but where are they?
+1
Acura Legends have vanished from the roads in the Pacific Northwest (and we don’t even have much salt on the roads in the winter to kill ’em) but plenty of E36 and E34 BMWs – contemporaries of the Legend – are still running around.
This claim sounded ridiculous to me, so I looked at LA craigslist. There are currently 68 Acura Legends for sale in LA, none newer than 1995. There are 5 Saabs of all varieties older than 1999 in the biggest import market in the US.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=Acura+Legend&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=
You’re crazy and your generalizations are lame.
Lord knows I’m no “Silvy” America-firster wahoo, but to state that the only well-maintained, well-cared for old cars on the road (ca 2001) are European models is BS. For every Saab I see of that vintage, I see 100 of those god-awful-yet-still-truckin’ Chrysler minivans from the late 90’s. And I bet dollars to doughnuts that most of them have been abused to hell and back; alas, they’re still doing kid-hauling duty for the third or fourth family in their histories. And so what if it’s also their third or fourth tranny? A rebuilt Dodge transmission costs significantly less than a rebuilt Saab sludger engine…
Hell, my 100/1 ratio might be low; Saabs have always been for oddball types who couldn’t quite facilitate a 3er but still wanted people to think he’s got the goods (that’s why they’re fairly rare). 1000/1? That’ probably closer…and more indicative of reliability than anything you offered.
Now please step aside as I eat a hot dog, drink a crap beer and sing “I’m Proud To Be An American!” Oh wait, no.
Saabs are very popular in New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine. My parents had a 2001 9-5 SE that would likely still be driving around if I hadn’t tried hooning it on back roads. (oops! rolled it!)
If I found another one, I’d buy it in a second. Put Snow tires on it and it really could keep up with most awd cars.
But LA is not a SAAB market – no snow. Steve could have gotten $5K+ for that car here in Maine. There are literally more Saabs here than Chevy cars. There are entire dealerships here that make a living buying Saabs and Volvos in the South and bringing them up here for resale. Of the six houses immediately adjacent to mine, 4 of us own Saabs of various vintages, and I do not live in an upscale area. They are just everywhere.
As with most European cars, if you don’t see the value in them they are most obviously not the car for you. Drive a boring appliance if that makes you happy.
And I vehemently disagree with any remarks as to “sky high” parts prices. No worse than any other car on average. Every make has it’s “wallet melters”. The Internet is the great price leveler. Though as with any car, the new car dealer is the enemy of the pocketbook.
Replacing the DI cassette over the lifespan of the car is not significantly more expensive than plugwires and distributor caps for other upscale cars. And the latest revisions are lasting just fine, 100K miles or more. As to transmissions, it’s an Aisin-Warner, just like in a Toyota or Lexus. Made in Japan. Sludge is certainly an issue, but easily inspected for. And most of the sludged cars have died already. That issue was pretty well resolved by ’03.
Well, L.A. isn’t exactly Seattle. There are 407 used Saabs here for sale listed on Craigslist. 49 of them are Saab 900’s (1980ish – 1999) and 5 of them were Saab 9000’s (1986-1997). I guess the 900 holds up a lot better over the long run than the 9000.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=saab&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=
The comment about L.A. seems fair, and I guess I didn’t take into account certain populations. I could definitely see certain parts of CA being more into old Asian cars than 2nd tier Euro cars like Saab. Cultural differences matter in car-world, thats for sure.
I guess I mean to say…for all the “sky is falling” stuff about old (or new) Euro cars being unreliable…..it doesn’t seem to take away from the fact that they are preferred by many people over more mundane cars. And because they are nicer, people take the time to care for them.
I’ll change my mind when I see old Lexus ES250s on the road like I do old Saab 900’s or MB 240D’s. Again, I can’t see outside of my geographic area though (DC and NE). Maybe Legends and first gen Infiniti M and J30 and Lexus ES250/300 models are coveted in L.A.
I still don’t understand why people think Saabs compete with BMW, or that people that buy Saabs really want a BMW.
A Saab, for the last 20 years, is a General Motors car for better or worse. Just as American as any Daimler/Chrysler minivan. If you want a German car, you buy a German car. If you want a Saab, you buy a Saab. I’ve had both, and love both. But no one I know that is a Swedish car fan would EVER trade for a BMW. Again, whether we like it or not, there’s definitely an image thing going on.
I dunno.. I had a 9-5 and a 3 series in the garage at the same time for years. Bought them from the same dealer who sold only BMW and Saabs. Go figure.
The 9-5 was a good car, especially by 1999 standards. Can’t say it was reliable. Well maybe the word is “dependable”. And yes, I maintained it (and had the best indy Saab mechanic on speed dial). But there were many times when that funky DI and/or funky EGR and/or funky something or other (I recall several firmware upgrades for the ECU) made the car shut down in the middle of traffic with my baby girl in the back seat. Enough to make me get rid of it. Oddly I’ve spent a lot more maintaining the 3 series, but it never left me stranded. It’s not better on long freeway runs, where the saab really came into its own. Nor was the saab’s replacement, nor the replacement’s replacement. If I did a lot of long San Diego to San Francisco type driving still, I’d probably still have a Saab somewhere in the stable.
A couple of years ago I found an old Legend sedan at a dealer and took it out for a drive. Amazing how much better it was behind the wheel than any RL since, and yes that includes the current one. Electronics were pretty shot though. I imagine that Legend powertrains are very robust (very much unlike the V6/5AT combos that came later) and either the body or the electrics give up the ghost.
9-5’s built between ’99 and 2001 where problematic. Ones built from 2002 where a lot better and much more reliable. I own a ’04 Aero with 160k miles on it. Its been rock solid and dependable. It gets great fuel mileage(35-36 mpg in 60% highway/40% city driving). it’s super quick, it handles nicely in corners, the engine compartment is not cramped-you actually have plenty of room to work, the car is a tank in the deepest snow, has high safety ratings and the orthopaedic seats are incredible. This is an amazing long distance driving vehicle and roomy commuter(especially if you car pool). I’m on turbo #2, replaces at 100k miles per norm, and DI cassette #2. There was a recall on the DI cassette in 2007. The new one is a longer lasting part. Replacing a DI cassette is not a big deal. All you need is basic tools and 10 minutes. The other part that has been replaced is the coolant bypass valve, which takes a jack, screwdriver and 15 minutes. Its the only car that I’ve owned that comes with an owners manual that has step-by-step instructions to perform basic scheduled servicing such as oil changes and serpentine belt. If your not doing the work yourself, almost every major city in North America has one or more independent Saab specialist which will keep your car running cost effectively.
Y’all must be driving all downhill or have me just plain creamed on hypermiling, because my 9-5 (granted it was a wagon and not a sedan) would …on rare occasions… hit 30 MPG on long flat highway trips with the cruise control set and no traffic.. But the around town driving was good for 18 at best, often much lower.
35 or 36 seems, frankly, miraculous :)
The second generation 3.2L legends suffer from overheating and head gasket failures. The heads are supposed to be re-torqued regularly but most owners don’t bother.
Hondas are bullet proof after all!
“Thankfully, my mentor taught me a valuable lesson back in the day. Never regret a profit. I never will.”
—————
“Only a fool holds out for top dollar.”
— Joseph P. Kennedy
Ha! Sounds like some people I know too well who think they’re sooo financially savvy. Me, I’m usually very quick, in selling or buying apt/cars. Due my research first, figure out mins and maxs and just go for it. I once heard a guy say that your best offer would be buried along the first 10 ones. I agree with that. The rest is just mental masturbation and the realm of second guessers.
FWIW, take my cue, research then make your “kill” within reasonanble boundaries.
My rule of thumb selling a car is to take the first offer I get that meets my minimum needs. I don’t want to get slaughtered. Works every time and I don’t end up holding onto a used car for too long of a time.
I really need to start going to auctions… this car under 3000, wow.
It was a dealer’s auction, not public (a totally different thing in terms of offer).
saabs and volvos were very popular in the wealthy brooklyn neighborhoods (former park sloper myself). these are people that could easily afford german premium brands, but elected for the swedes instead.
i would have to say that subarus are the most common car, followed by the toyota matrix.
You lucky bastards! Selling a near new 9-5 for $ 3.000.
Where I live (Netherlands), the cheapest 9-5 goes for $ 7.800 (dealer asking price). It has 190 kmiles on it then and it is the cheapest version available (cloth, manual, 150 hp). A 2.3 Aero goes for nearly $ 12.000.