This is the first year in nearly a decade that I haven’t owned an all-wheel-drive vehicle. I’ve been putting Blizzaks or Dunlop Winter Sports on them and enjoying the arrogant self-satisfaction that comes with always being the fastest traffic on bad roads.
When I had my Rovers, my brother and I would go out during the “Level 3 Emergencies” and pull people out of ditches. Sometimes we would do ten cars in three or four hours, using my off-road recovery equipment to unstick everybody from sweet coeds in Jettas to Somali immigrant families packed into corded-tire Isuzu Troopers.
With the arrival of my almighty Town Car, however, the prospect of rescuing others has faded, replaced by a determination to simply not require any rescue myself. The solution was simple, but I learned something surprising about cops and tires along the way.
There aren’t that many snow tires available for the 17″-wheeled Town Car. The tire size, 225/65R17, is neither modern-low-profile nor big-wheeled-SUV-status. And the tires which are available tend to be a bit off-brand. Cooper, Hankook… I know they both make decent racing tires but I’m not ready to take my chances with their discount snow-and-ice offerings.
The solution was to imitate the Ohio State Highway Patrol, which uses the Eagle Ultra Grip.
Ironically, the Rack doesn’t carry them in Town Car size, but the folks who sponsor my race car, B&B Tire in Columbus, Ohio, managed to scare up a set for an installed total of $680. I elected to use my polished-aluminum Signature Limited Wheels for mounting because I have some different plans for my summer “rimz”. Let’s just say that I am only a hundred miles from Dayton, Ohio, and leave it at that for now.
For a few busy days I read everything I could get my hands on about the Ultra Grip. Yes, it’s a decent snow tire, but what surprised me was the assertion, repeated in a dozen different places, that many police forces use the Ultra Grip year ’round. In summery conditions, they rarely last twelve thousand miles. Why would police departments waste money like that, when a decent set of all-season tires would be cheaper and last three or four times as long?
Nobody on the Internet seemed to know, and I’m too police-allergic to do something like, you know, actually call and ask somebody at a police department, but I suspect the answer is something like this: The Ultra Grip in my size is V-rated. It has very deep tread and seems to corner pretty well, even under dry conditions. For departments which could encounter high-speed usage in heavy rain, it might be the safest choice out there. Using the Ultra Grip on a consistent basis also assures that the cops are always ready for snow, although not even Ohio policemen could be stupid enough to think it’s going to snow in, say, August. Well, I take that back. There’s probably a deputy sheriff out there somewhere who is genuinely surprised when the sun comes up in the morning.
We’re already discussed the true nature of “special police training” here on TTAC a few times. Perhaps the safest thing to do is to choose a tire which has the absolute minimum difference between dry-pavement and bad-weather grip. This reduces the amount of thinking that cops need to do when choosing the speed at which they’ll be endangering other drivers to administer roadside taxation.
As for me, I’ve been enjoying the Ultra Grips ever since it began snowing. Panthers are frankly treacherous on cold roads, but the combination of the Goodyear traction and the surprisingly competent traction control fitted to these final few big Fords makes it possible to run at acceptable velocities on unplowed freeways and side streets. Every once in a while I will hear the engine snag a few hundred extra revs for no reason and that’s my cue to back it off a notch before something bad happens.
In fact, the Town Car has been so good then when I saw a Camry face-down, ass-up in the ditch down the street from my house today, I thought about running home to grab my hilariously-named “snatch strap”. Does this car even have a front tow hook location? I’m going to deliberately not find out.
I had a set of those tires on my Peugeot 505 SW8 and I will second Jack’s recommendation – there were excellent. The Pug was about the best RWD car in the snow ever – feather wieght all-aluminum 2.2L up front, 5spd, station wagon with heavy rear seat so the weight distibution was near 50/50, looooong wheelbase, superb steering and a factory limited-slip diff.. Total snowmobile.
Most FWD mass-market Toyotas are among the worst vehicles in their class in dealing with snow traction, in my experience. I’ve driven tons, too (5 yrs in rental cars). This is true for the Camry, Corolla, Avalon, and Yaris. The Prius (and Camry Hybrid) have their own set of major hang-ups in snow – namely traction/stability control with too little tolerance for slippage and too much control over coming back on after you’ve turned them off. The Mazda3 and Mazda5 are atrocious in snow, as well, although I think it has more to do with aggressive base tire choices.
I’d caution against using the chrome-plated alloys as winter wheels, unless you have absolutely no problem with them rusting/pitting/peeling/not holding air in two-three winters’ time. This has happened with many personal vehicles I’ve had experience with, though they’ve mostly been GMs (some Nissans), all with factory chromies.
Definitely. A Mazda3 with the stock Goodyear Eagle RS-As is completely useless in the snow. Anything more than two inches and you’ll be stuck. A dusting is a white knuckle affair. With a good set of snows you’ll be passing Subarus in no time.
Also, you can add Chrysler to that list of crummy chromies. Four years is normal for them.
@KalapanaBlack … interesting that you mention how poor Toyota’s are in the snow. I have a FWD Toyota Matrix (which I despise more and more as time goes by … but that’s another subject) and one of the things I notice is that this car seems to loose traction on the inside wheel in a turn all the time, in any weather. It’s actually kind of dangerous in the rain. I have learned to leave a LOT of extra space before trying to pull out of a side road. I just can’t count on any decent traction (my tires are very good too). Now I’ve owned many FWD cars, and none of them seemed to spin the tires as easily as this car, even with much more HP. I even took my wife’s Civic out to test this on a turn back to back with the Toyota. The Toyota feels like it’s a 1 wheel drive car ! There must be something wrong with the design of the transaxle, such that once a wheel starts to slip it gets 100% of the power.
You don’t really want tire slippage with traction control. I remember when I was minivan-shopping (in February, in eastern Ontario) and I sampled an XLE Sienna. The lack of tolerance of slip actually made it easier to get out of trouble. Yes, it kills power at inopportune moments, but you shouldn’t put power down in that situation in the first place.
The CE AWD that I wanted was even better, but I ended up with the base CE because AWD wouldn’t really help much in the other three seasons and sees me lose the spare tire. With snow tires it’s fine even without traction/stability control, and for the situations it doesn’t handle I just throw the floor mats under the tires.
My Fit, which is my work car and sees me take trips to the north, gets spoke spiders. The word “unstoppable” comes to mind.
Now, all this said, the Panther is one of the two default cabbie vehicles in most of Canada (the Impala is the other) and the most common police vehicle. You can do rear-drive in the snow fairly easily, as long as you’re not an idiot (and yes, a few officers and many cabbies fit that definition, at least until they’ve been called on the carpet for wrecking someone’s property) The nice thing about front drive is that most people’s default “Oh sh*t” reaction is exactly right for getting a front drive car under control.
“You don’t really want tire slippage with traction control.”
It’s a mixed bag. A car with a draconian traction control system almost doesn’t need stability control so long as it isn’t overdriven into turns. On the other hand, that same car will leave you totally stranded on a slippery uphill stretch where cutting engine power is exactly the wrong move. The crummy part is that you then need momentum to overcome most obstacles, and that puts you in the unenviable position of carrying excess speed in a car without yaw control.
If I had my preference I’d do almost entirely without traction control (although maybe automatic transmission cars should all have it, woops downshift!) but have a switchable stability control on every vehicle.
That’s a good point: in an automatic you definitely want it unless you can hold a particular gear and not up- or downshift, especially if you’re an inexperienced driver.
I have been using a set on my BMWs for 3 seasons. They are great dry/wet road tires. Quiet, excellent wet grip, great handling, comfortable and quiet. However, when it comes to driving on snow and ice, I like them far better on my AWD E91 than on my RWD E46. They just don’t have that much snow/ice traction to feel comfortable — the car will fishtail starting from an icy intersection and will struggle getting up steep hills. Now I use Michelin Primacy Alpin PA2 on my RWD E46 and they are MUCH better on slippery surfaces. They are also much louder and rougher riding. Michelin PA2s have excellent traction in snow/ice, letting me feel confident on steep hills.
I use up my winter tires every year – that way I get fresh ones in the Fall with all their glorious tread depth.
In the fall/spring – there’s been a few times when I’ve sworn that my winter tires saved me, especially when stopping on wet pavement.
As you know the aidave becomes slippery the softer suspension ill rule. Just watch Schumey when it rains mid race, he gets passed!
Had Dunlop M3 on base spring C5 for Ohio winters and it did better than my Eibach spring 05 CTS-V even considering the weight difference. Then I had to use Z-cable style snow chains on the C5 to get home one night. :)
Add some cables to that plush Vic and start towing.
You know I used Hankook iPikes for 3 really snowtastic seasons in Wyoming/Colorado and really never had a problem. Sure they weren’t perfect and their ice performance wasn’t great they kept me going around town in a lot of situations where I couldn’t in a RWD car.
I’ve been driving RWD BMWs for most of my 30 years here in Colorado. My 328i sedan has four Hankook iPikes (not studded) on extra rims for snowy days. They go on in less than 30 minutes in my garage, floor jack and electric impact wrench. Just driving them on snow they’ve lasted five years with no signs of wear. I’ve yet to get stuck in any snow or ice.
Fleet vehicles (police, fire, taxis, etc.) put new winter tires on every fall and run them all year until next fall. It’s cheaper considering vehicle down time, storing summer tires and labor.
Twotone
Like Twotone said the Ipikes are great in snow, the Coopers I had before them not so much.
I know the legal tint limits in Ohio aren’t all that dark but you need to tint that Townie NOW. If I saw that sucker sitting at the curb in an Ohio winter, all white, tinted windows, and that layer of snow… it would be positively sinister. Now with you behind the wheel I’m sure it looks as if a relative has just passed away and the car was all you were left in the will.
“This reduces the amount of thinking that cops need to do when choosing the speed at which they’ll be endangering other drivers to administer roadside taxation.” This statement is hardly fair?
BTW, I do the same with my car, run winter tires all year round… eliminates the 2x per tire changes, can’t be beat in the snow, and gives better protection against summer aquaplaning…
If you want really good traction, try getting speed class Q tires, like Michelin X-Ice XI2 or Nokian Hakkapeliitta R. They’re awful in the summer, but winter grip is much better than in H or V rated tires.
I had the X-Ice 2s and I wasn’t impressed. The noise was high, the grip was low. They were good on ice, but they sucked in snow and slush. (Compared to other snow tires, the creamed any All Season)
I wonder if we even have the same tires. I wasn’t very happy with the winter traction from my Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 tires, so I purchased a set of XIce Xi2’s. Night and day difference, as if I just added 500lb of passengers and trunk ballast to my car. The Xi2 are also the quietest tires I’ve ever purchased, not even a whisper. The Xi2 has smooth breakaway characteristics and it’s easy to drift like a pro, unlike the PA2’s with their abrupt on/off lateral traction and having to wait for the tires to catch. It even has a plush ride.
My Primacy Alpin PA3’s on the ES300 are close in traction in snow but doesn’t seem to do as well on ice, and makes an annoying hum like it’s a monster truck tire. The studded Hankook W401 Zovacs on my Camry have the same predictability as the Xi2 but less overall winter grip (but at least better than the PA2’s) and all the negative characteristics of old style studded winter tires (poor wet/dry grip, noisy, loose handling). In general, I don’t think I’d buy another “performance winter” tire again for the kind of roads I encounter.
The Colorado State Patrol used the ultra grip year round because it actually could snow any time of year in some places in Colorado.
Jack,
Great article as usual, but please refrain from using the word “pigs” when refering to cops. It’s so 60’s , and 99.9% of them deserve better than that. JMHO
Upon some reflection, I think you’re probably right. Edited to suit.
It’s so 60′s , and 99.9% of them deserve better than that. JMHO
Yes, it’s unfair to cast aspersions on swine.
ya these days cops are more revenue enforcement. They are the revenue arm of the law!
“99.9% of them deserve better than that.”
Here in Ohio, that number is more like 25%.
@Robert Schwartz; Having spent the first 22 of my 33 years of life in Ohio, that largely applies to State Highway Patrol and the cops of little piddly towns that have 2 miles of interstate through them but think they need to arbitrarily lower the limit to bag tickets.
@Ronnie: Were I you, I would really back off picking on the police. Not because some of them don’t deserve it—because they do, and I’m the one of the first to criticize—but because you’ve been pretty thin-skinned when your own pets are similarly, and immaturely, lampooned.
Every professional association has it’s rotten apples, but lowering the level of discourse doesn’t do your argument any favours.
Decent Cops are surely aware where the negative stereotype comes from.
Considering how Cops (alongside perhaps Fire guys and military personnel) are on of the few “groups” neither political “side” seem willing to lean on, anything to bring them down a few notches collectively, can’t be a bad thing. When any group of people can beat the crap out of Rodney King and get away with it, something is surely amiss. And the same thing goes for “asset forfeiture” robberies, utterly nonsensical speeding enforcement, pulling people over and searching them on the most ridiculous pretexts, and, honestly, most of what that once supposedly honorable profession is currently engaged in.
And pounding away at the institution of contemporary Cop’ery doesn’t mean berating Joe Officer who is just doing a decent job. But rather realizing that, just like in every other institution, the scum will rise to the top, and then use ever expanding authority to make the whole institution more scum friendly. Just like in Banking, Law, Government, Labor movements, and absolutely every other human organization. Which, of course, means the very simple solution for actually fixing whatever ails any of them, is simply making them dramatically smaller and less powerful.
I just graduated from OSU this quarter and I drive a Town Car too, except the auxiliary lighting module went out so the turn signals don’t work, and it has a dent on the side from spun out on the highway snow.
just wondering, is there an easy way other than calling up every junk yard to get a auxiliary lighting module for the blinkers on the cheap? the dealer quoted it for like $800…
Try Rock Auto dot com. Saved me more then 50% compared to the stealership.
I am quite surprised that 225/64R17 is hard to find, because it’s stock size on RAV4.3. Back in 2006 when those things just appeared, it was a huge issue, but over the years it became less of a problem. When I wore down my Yokos some time in 2009, I found a large selection at TireRack and got some other Yokos. Granted, not snow tires, but still, it should not be an issue anymore.
Thanks for the great article. I live in southern Wisconsin so got hit by the big storm this weekend, too. I’ve been putting off getting winter tires for my 2011 Mustang. I keep telling myself I can take my wife’s Escape to work on days that are really bad but this storm, and your article, remind me that I really need to do this. And soon.
I have the iPikes on my 240 wagon. I left them on this past summer after I got back from Germany; not too sure what to expect out of them them this winter. I will find out soon; northern Ohio is expecting some serious snow these next few days.
“Let’s just say that I am only a hundred miles from Dayton, Ohio, and leave it at that for now.”
Not unless you have mover recently. Its 80 mi from the Zoo to downtown Dayton.
He’s going to the Air Force Museum to ask if he can race the XB-70
Pretty sure that’s a reference to the only wheel company to call Dayton its home. 180 spoke gold plate baby!
But seriously Jack, reasonably sized Daytons could look quite good on that. Whenever I finish grad school I’m going to get a set of the 70 spoke direct bolt on for my 63 Studebaker GT Hawk – think 15″ italian GT style. Because Borrani doesn’t have Studebaker in the catalog…
“He’s going to the Air Force Museum to ask if he can race the XB-70”
You know you’re getting old when the plaque describing the SR-71 on display up there contains names of people you once knew and served with! I live 45 minutes from the USAF museum and my buddies and I go at least once a year.
As far as driving in snow goes, my ’04 Impala does rather well. I have no idea of what kind of tires I have. I think they’re Generals, but I do know they are black, round and have funny zig-zag grooves in them and they seem to work pretty good. This morning was fun getting to work, too!
@Zackman: Thank you for your service.
When I had my ’73 Galaxie, I bought an extra rim at the salvage yard and mounted studded tires on the extra rim and the spare tire. I swapped them out on the rear axle when the snowy season started in Montana. I had the front tires siped and drove according to the conditions. I never got stuck or had to get towed because the rear axle was a limited slip. I kept a few 25 pound bags of cat litter in the trunk for extra weight and emergency traction. Ironically, the one time I did get stuck was in my Tracker 4×4.
First major snowfall just arrived in my parts… it’s obvious everyone forgets their winter driving skills after a few months. Driving on the QEW, I just saw a Panther (a white TC by looks of it) in the ditch on the bend near the Oakville Ford Plant. The roads were wet, not necessarily slick, snow was flying but not accumulating on the pavement. I took the bend at 65 with snows on, no drama, so this guy must have been really pushing it… probably with 4 seasons.
Today we had the first major snowfall here in Detroit. My Nissan was fine with Blizzaks, while everybody else was sliding around with all seasons, I had no issues. I then ran into a guy with a Miata who blew by me. I was amazed at how good he was doing with a little RWD sports car. I wanted to ask him what tires he had on, but he turned off before I had a chance.
The weekend of a 20 year (for Minneapolis) snowstorm might not be the best time to make rational decisions, but I have decided it’s time to stop screwing around and pick up a M1009.
I had to remove a tire and wheel after the same storm you’re talking about. I had a huge block of ice that had frozen to the rotor. That was fun having to jimmy a floorjack under the car to lift it in a driveway largely covered in tons of snow. Oh and nothing wakes a person up like burning rubber (while doing the rock-it routine) in the morning.
“When I had my Rovers, my brother and I would go out during the “Level 3 Emergencies” and pull people out of ditches. Sometimes we would do ten cars in three or four hours, using my off-road recovery equipment to unstick everybody from sweet coeds in Jettas to Somali immigrant families packed into corded-tire Isuzu Troopers.”
Laughed so hard I almost pissed myself reading that.. Only because I’ve read so many times on this site and others that “nobody needs 4wd/AWD”, that may be true but some people do reap a hell of a benefit from it..
BTW.. I had to buy a Snatch Strap too.. The name alone was worth it!
Yeah I was sure grateful for the neighbor in his Z71 who pulled my 82 Celebrity out of a snowbank back when I was in high school. I didn’t NEED 4wd either, I was just driving like a jackass. But thank god for 4wd/AWD to save idiot kids.
Actually that little episode taught me what I needed to know about the limits of that car, winter and handling limits. Never got it stuck again.
I delivered pizza in the mid-90s in an 85 Grand Marquis. The cheap all-seasons had good tread on them, I’d throw 300lbs. of bagged pizza flour in the trunk and I’d keep on delivering long after most of the Excel/Metro/626 drivers called me for a ride back from their stuck vehicle or gave up and went home. The 626 fried his clutch trying to rock himself out of a hole at the bottom of a hill.
5 to 6 concrete blocks in the trunk of my 1987 Olds Cutlass did the same for me, although posi-trac didn’t hurt.
Never heard anything bad about Hankook’s snow tire offerings, FWIW.
I had a ’97 T-Bird V8 that I had to drive around in South Dakota winters. With snow tires and gentle driving I was truly surprised to see how well it could do in the snow.
I rock the Ultra grip ice on my Mazda 3 here in Ann Arbor. Nasty out today! The RS-As do suck, but with the Ultra grips I’ve never had an issue in the snow. I almost didn’t buy them because the RS-As suck so much, but I’m glad I did. I keep them on from Nov to the end of April and I’m going on the third winter and they’ve got plenty of life left.
if u have RWD dont forget to throw some weight in the trunk, sand bags, tool box, or what u have is heavy.
That’ll go a longer way.
The turbo diesel can be hell sometimes as when turbo kicks in about 1500 RPM the wheel just starts spinning and there goes your traction.
Wish I can defeat her during snowy days.
While I know this is probably a dumb question, is there any benefit to adding weight in the trunk of a FWD to keep more weight on the rear axle as well? I’ve thought that it might be useful, but don’t know.
@tankinbeans
Generally, lighter cars do better in the snow, but RWD cars can use the extra weight in the back to add traction to driven wheels. Adding weight to the rear end of a FWD car wouldn’t help, since the rear wheels aren’t driven and you’re adding more weight for the car to pull around. You still want your tires with better tread in the rear, since oversteer might be harder to control than understeer once you’re on your way.
Thank you for humoring me. This is sort of what I thought, but I was never sure if my suspicion was correct. I know having the engine, and thus the weight, over the front wheels in an FWD is why they are lauded as supreme in winter by many. I’m not sure, though, if my car would be considered overly light thought at ~3500 lbs, but I take your word for it.
That being said, during this last snowstorm in the Twin Cities, MN I got really good at switching traction off and starting in second (automatic) at stoplights (something which my brother said wasn’t good for the transmission even though it states it in the manual to start in second and limit wheelspin).
I know A/S tires are supposed to be useless at everything, but the Continental DWS tires are extremely impressive. They just destroy everything else in the category in the wet and snow, and are very decent if not necessarily the best in the dry.
For average drivers of front and AWD cars, I think they are tough to beat.
Agreed on the DWS. I just put a set on my Mini…not expecting a ton of snow in Charlotte, but there’s no such thing as competent road maintenance here when it does happen. I got them mostly for the wet traction and to get rid of run-flats. I’m looking forward to snow so I can try them out.
Also, one more guy giving props to Hankook winter tires. I had a set of Icebears on my AWD Element when I lived on Mt. Hood in Oregon and they were just fantastic. I could go almost anywhere studded tires would take me, and the ride quality was very good. I’d get another set if I lived somewhere with a real winter anymore.
I wanted some of those but they don’t make them with the required weight rating for my car. I got the Pirelli Pzero Nero All Seasons instead. VERY impressed. Where I live it snows, then melts, then snows, then melts. So far the PZero Neros are awesome in snow/ice (traction control has not engaged once since the snow started a month ago) and when roads are dry (which is almost half the winter season where I live) I don’t have to worry about the extra 25-40 feet winters need to stop on dry pavement.
Unless you’ve got some dinner plate sized binders on your grandpa car, then I see no reason why you wouldn’t grab another set of 16 inch wheels and open the door to many more options of tire sizes and brands, which would also give you a larger sidewall, which will be helpful in negotiating the land mines which will appear after things freeze and slush up a few times.
Extremely happy with the DWS on my E46 330i. They rock in the Seattle rain and perform nicely on the rare dry day.
Yes Police do get some pretty bad advice during their driving training, and the same applies to hand to hand fighting instruction. On the other hand, they drive and fight all the time, so I’d say in the end it balances out. Even with the shoddy technique they spend so much time in the environment that they work out the feel of things soon enough (I’d bet they are better than average at controlling weight transfer for instance).
Don’t know what the fuss is all about. Most Canadians over 50 drove RWD cars for decades. Some put snow tires, tires with big chunky blocks, square edges and wide grooves, on the rear wheels. Many didn’t.
I still prefer RWD’s intuitive predictable handling.
Having grown up in the era when all cars were RWD (and without things like traction control), I don’t understand people’s phobias of RWD cars in the snow. Obviously, you want snow tires. And then you need a bag of sand and a small shovel or spade in the trunk . . . and you’re good to go.
Notwithstanding “psar” Canadian residence, I have to disagree about traction control. My experience in deep snow, or powder situations is that traction control systems do not allow enough wellspin for the snow tire to dig its way through. (I have MIchelin X-ices on my Pilot) So, you can be better off with the traction control off. On any other slippery surface, including ice and hard packed snow, I agree with Psar. Of course, different traction control systems allow for different amounts of slippage, it seems.
To the guy with the Mustang . . . my advice would be to save your money on the snows and just figure on leaving the car in the garage when the white stuff is on the roads. Admittedly, a more rude and crude version of the current model, my ’87 GT was absolutely impossible even in a light snow and with cable chains on the rears. The rear diff would lock and, with both rear wheels spinning, the engine would torque the rear of the car to the right.
The biggest handicap for cars in the snow seems to be weight. Even my snow-tire equipped Pilot seems a little scary in the snow. By contrast, a snow tire equipped VW Beetle was nearly unstoppable in the snow; and I recall my FWD ’78 Accord being very good, even with just all-seasons. What the Accord and Beetle had in common was light weight. So, I’m not surprised to hear of the Miata’s effectiveness in the snow.
I’ve generally found that, if you dig down deep enough, you end up on ice anyway and you’ve potentially overheated your transmission. I suspect it’s a personal thing, but what I was always taught was “if the tires spin, get out, put the floor mats under them, get back in and gently start moving the car and don’t stop until you’re somewhere that you’ve got decent traction.” Spinning never seemed like a good idea.
Snow driving is all about being gentle and planning your moves. My old Saab was wonderful for this: slow steering, aggressive traction control and a ‘snow” button that numbed the whole experience down.
I definitely prefer FWD over RWD. Its so easy to corner with FWD: just floor it and have the weight transferred to the back wheels to prevent oversteer. I also would rather go up a hill being pulled than pushed. RWD power oversteer is fun as long as you have the right tires and don’t have passengers who object to hooning.
“I’m too police-allergic to do something like, you know, actually call and ask somebody at a police department”
Probably a good move. Getting tased over the phone sucks.
back in the early to mid-90s I worked private security for a neighborhood. We had a “police package” Taurus, which I think consisted of beefed up suspension and beefed up electricals. It also came equipped with if I remember right, General XP 2000 Grabbers. We didn’t have much in the way of winter, but those tires were amazing. They would let that Taurus slip through the traffic circle at 60 mph with not a bit of wiggle or complaint at 3AM. Those tires lasted about 12k miles, and were replaced with whatever cheap crap the local shop pawned off. There was not a good pass down that night, so things very nearly went bad for our $7.10/hr patrol officer as that taurus barely made it through its once regular traffic circle trip with much screeching, cursing and sliding.
We only had 1 resident complain about the noise, luckily, the rest remained asleep, and blissfully ignorant.
AWD is nice, but tires matter. My previous Subaru Tribeca, with a great AWD system, plenty of weight…was scary in the bends on its monstrous 255-55-18 Eagle RSAs. It was like driving on four pizza pans. If you want to gamble on A/S tires in snow, you’ll have better luck with narrower tires.
My Volvo S60 was quite good when I put the Nokian WR all season tires on it. Those are the answer for FWD cars in snowy climates without a changeover. Climbed my steep driveway like a billy goat and handled and stopped nicely.
Now I have a BMW 328xi, and I’m curious to see if I need snows. It has the run-flat ContiProContact SSR. Should do better than the Tribeca, but I’ll soon find out. They plow pretty well in Massachusetts so we’re seldom driving on snow.
I have always lived in northern and central Indiana. I have done just fine with all-season Michelins on my Panthers. If you start with a decently balanced rear driver, it will do just fine in the snow. People who are hinky about rear drive in snow have spent too much time in 60s Mustangs and 70s Cutlasses. For the record, those things were awful in slick weather.
But good old ‘Murcan full sized sedans were always just fine in snow. I never bothered with weight in the back, just keep the gas tank full and you will be fine. Full sized Fords, Mopar C bodies, even a 71 Scamp. Never a problem.
For the record, my best-ever snow car was a 5200 lb 63 Fleetwood with studded bias ply snow tires on the back. The second best was my 94 Club Wagon with abs and a limited slip diff with all-season Michelins. I will take a balanced rear driver any day over fwd.
My ’81 Olds Cuttlass with A/S Goodyear Tiempos went pretty much anywhere I needed it to in the winter. Once your in deep enough where your car is high-ended due to the compacted snow underneath it your not going anywhere regardless of the tire or whether you’ve got FWD or AWD. I got off the interstate last weekend and went by 4 vehicles all stuck with their wheels hanging in the air. They got into snow compacted by a snow plow. Whoops! My 3 1/2 ton GMC PU didn’t even slow down.
I spent most of my life living above a mile, in the snowiest place between Aspen and the Alps, and while you made a good choice, I never had any problem with the nice, cheap Cooper Weathermasters.
Cooper actually makes a decent tire for most people. They’re not very racy, but they last, they’re cheap and they’re actually pretty damn good in bad weather. The CS4 in particular is all the tire 95% of the driving public needs.
Completely off-topic and perhaps I missed this, but did you ever come up with your results about E85 versus “regular” gas?
Here you go: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/11/born-on-the-cob-680-miles-with-e85/
@Pete Zaitcev
“I am quite surprised that 225/65R17 is hard to find, because it’s stock size on RAV4.3. Back in 2006 when those things just appeared, it was a huge issue, but over the years it became less of a problem. When I wore down my Yokos some time in 2009, I found a large selection at TireRack and got some other Yokos. Granted, not snow tires, but still, it should not be an issue anymore.”
The new generation fancier Grand Vitaras also showed up with that size for 2006. At first, there was almost no selection. But I understand the Highlander used that size, and so by the time the oem’s wore enough that I needed to get snow tires there were at least a dozen different snow tires in that size. Blizzak DMZ-3’s on the GV provide amazing traction.