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Last year, Saab sold 31,696 vehicles in markets around the world. For some contrast, that’s less volume than the Mazda6, Ford Flex or Acura TSX sold in the US alone last year. But don’t worry folks, according to Saab-Spyker boss Victor Muller [via Automotive News [sub]], everything is going to be just fine. As it turns out, Saab has a very specific problem with an easy cure.
One of the largest challenges in 2010 was to restock our dealers around the world to normal levels again, especially in a market like the United States, where you need dealer stock in order to be able to sell cars. For instance, when we acquired the company, there were a mere 500 cars left on the ground in the United States. Normal inventory levels in this market should be at 6,000-7,000 units. In 2009, Saab Automobile sold 39,800 cars, but built only 21,000. As a result, inventory levels were depleted by almost 19,000 units. In 2010, we only filled the pipeline with less than 4,000 units. All in all, with all the accomplishments made so far, I am very confident that the foundations for delivering on our business plan are in place.
Except for the fact that, according to Wards Auto, Saab-Spyker ended November with 269 days of supply, the largest inventory in the business. In November of 2009, when Saabs were allegedly “depleted,” Saab’s US operations were rocking an industry-leading 156 days of supply. As recently as 2007, Saab matched its current global number in the US alone; last year, the brand sold 5,445 units, a 37.3% drop from 2009’s abysmal (but, given the firm’s turmoil, understandable) 8,680 unit performance. Next year, Saab wants to sell 80,000 units worldwide, and plans call for 120k units and profit in 2012. I’m not sure where Muller gets his optimism from, but I could sure use a hit of it about now.
Russian laundry is my guess, and not the socks-and-shirts kind.
Building a car manufacturer constrained by relatively high costs and limited pricing power is hard. Impossible at former volumes let alone 32,000 worldwide. Watch for an MG Rover kind of outcome.
The local dealer is chock full of new 9-5s. Saw one on the road…and it had manufacturer tags
Saab — are they still in business? Would anyone buy one if they were?
Well, I hope they’re around for at least 4 more years because that’s how long my new 9-3 SportCombi warranty is! The incentives are pretty juicy right now, so I took the gamble. This car is the epitome of a Jack of all trades. Yes, it’s mediocre in just about every way, but that somehow makes it special. It’s not particularly roomy, luxurious, powerful, or sporty. But it’s more roomy than an A3, more powerful than a Sportwagen, and more luxurious and sporty than a Forester. After incentives, it’s also a great value. If you’re looking for a sporty wagon with manual transmission, +200 HP, and +30 MPG highway, you really don’t have much to choose from either.
That’s how I feel about my 2010 2.0T sedan. For a commuter car, at the price, my other options were zilch if I wanted to stay away from ToyOndas or used cars. I ended up with an efficient yet zippy sedan with great seats and nice features that just happens to be on an old platform. I really dig the “eyebrows” too.
Thanks for trying Victor. Saab is one of the few not-lame car lines left in terms of identity and brand. But why oh why won’t Saab NA do any advertising on TV? Print ads are fine…..but I want to see Saab commercials on episodes of V and Family Guy and even some higher-end sitcoms. I know Super Bowl watchers aren’t your target market, but many people watch JUST for the commercials. Blow your advertising wad on a 30 second spot and watch your sales at least double (not hard considering the bar has been set so low).
>>>Next year, Saab wants to sell 80,000 units worldwide, and plans call for 120k units and profit in 2012.<<<
80K units of what, I’m wondering. The new 9-5 and the current gen 9-3 plus the ever-snazzy convertible?
I’m still not seeing new inventory here in the “Land of Saabs and Steeples.” (CT) And I’ve only seen one new 9-5 on the road, which I suspect was part of a local dealer’s holiday season promo. On last report, I read the new 93 won’t show until mid-’12 as a 2013, and it will be more of a refresh rather than a complete redo. And in the meantime, more mainstream cars are due to become more Saabish with turbos, hatchbacks and compact size. And the college prof bidness ain’t whut it used to be …
They’re going to sell the 9-4X pretty soon IIRC. It’s a Caddilac SRX with a Saab badge. There have also been some renderings/rumors of a MINI based 9-1, which to me seems like the best and perhaps only way for SAAB to gain some momentum (probably still not enough to survive), but I can’t really see why it would make sense for BMW to make that happen, so it probably won’t.
Being from the Netherlands, I primarily know of Mr Muller from the Spyker F1 episode. As I recall he left that adventure after it quickly became apparent that things weren’t going to work out, which must have been after about a day or two, even if you are the biggest optimist in the world.
The 3 other things I know about Victor is that he likes to throw in a lot of english terms even if he speaks Dutch, that he has a small collection of about 40 classic cars (but more like Lancias rather than 250GTOs) and made some cash in the 90s by buying failing companies and turning them around. This is talking 10s of millions rather than 100s or billions though, so not nearly enough (even leveraged to oblivion) to legitimately own an F1 team, much less SAAB.
Still, he gets a lot more credit (as in kudos, not the monetary kind) than would usually be the case for people who ‘stick their necks out’ in the Netherlands. Perhaps because with his small fortune Victor could lay on a warm beach for the rest of his life but instead chooses to spend his time in Scandinavia and Russia chasing what seems to almost everyone to be a pipe dream…
I guess in the very, very small likelihood that he actually pulls this off though it would provide quite the sense of accomplishment for him…Imagine the TTAC article when SAAB even sells something like 100.000 cars in 2012…
Saab is still around?
Also, why do I want to eat that car?
I’ve wanted a Saab 93 convertible for a long time, but couldn’t justify the price. What am I paying for? What’s so “premium” about these things? Their looks? Maybe. But, being a Chevy and (used to be – [sigh]) Plymouth guy at heart, I’ll have to pass. As far as the color of the Saab in the photo – no yellow car color can EVER be better than Goldwood Yellow on my avatar and old car!
Buy a year old one. CHEAP. I mean, in the $20k’s cheap. For that money there is not other four seat convertible unless you buy an Enterprise Mustang or Sebring special. The Saab, as old as it is, actually did quite well in the last C&D convertible comparison.
A friend of mine had a 2006 9-3 convertible that she garaged and kept in as new condition. She was just browsing at a Mercedes dealer while on vacation in Florida when a talented salesperson convinced her to make what she thought was an imposibly stingy offer on a new convertible. She wound up with a surplus Saab that she thought she could sell for $18,000 with about 35K miles. I kept my mouth shut and didn’t get involved, but it took her months to sell her Saab. I don’t know how far down her price came, but I have another friend who I kept having to talk down from buying similar cars that she found on craigslist for about $11,000.
Saw my first 9-5 in the wild…yesterday. I also saw about 5,763 BMWs yesterday.
And isn’t that depressing? What differentiates a BMW from a Lexus IS/ES or Accord/TSX/TL to those 5000+ people? At least a Saab is pretty to look at for us drivers that have to look at cars in our stop and go traffic.
@Spyked,
At least a Saab is pretty to look at for us drivers that have to look at cars in our stop and go traffic.
I used to date a lingerie model in NYC a few years back that could be described the same way you compare the Saab to a BMW. She was all show, and no go. Relied on her looks all her life, and never developed any skills. Why do you think you see 5000 BMW’s to each Saab? Maybe they know something others don’t? Just like that model, they are good for a quick ride, but just don’t have what it takes for the long haul. I have ridden in a Saab convertible, and it had as much rigidity as a wet noodle. Try driving an E46 vert sometime. From the outside you can’t understand it, from the inside, you can’t explain it.
BMWfan:
I drove a “classic” Saab 900 in high school. I thought it was a decent enough car until I rode in an E30 325iX coupe that a friend’s parents had bought for him.
Even at 8 years of age and 120k miles, the little BMW completely blew away my hand-me-down 900 in every possible performance and functionality measure. Hell, even the E30 had more leg room in the rear. Although a direct competitor when new, there was no comparison between the E30 and the classic 900. It was clear Saab didn’t have the resources to compete with BMW in the late 1980s, and they still lack said resources.
Saab wants you to “Move Your Mind”, but I have a feeling Mr. Muller is bending his.
@Edward Niedermeyer, Saab only sold 28,284 cars (retail). That is -29% compared to 2009.
In their pressrelease they primarily talk about “wholesale”. But it isn’t that difficult for Saab to stuff their importers and dealers with cars (they don’t want). Also Saab owns a lot of these importers, so they are only shifting car.
People are still not buying them.
My wild guess, BMW buys SAAB in several years to expand, compete with VW with a FWD platform and slot between the BMW and Mini brand. I believe they are already working something out to supply drive trains to SAAB.
but I want to see Saab commercials on episodes of V and Family Guy and even some higher-end sitcoms. I know Super Bowl watchers aren’t your target market, but many people watch JUST for the commercials. Blow your advertising wad on a 30 second spot and watch your sales at least double (not hard considering the bar has been set so low).
placing adv on TV are reserved for the big boyz. Selling 31,000 cars globally wouldnt have enuf mulla to finance it. SAAB now needs to build some real damn good cars to impress the users, plus do a real good job to service the existing customers, if anybody going to buy SAABs these folks will be the first in line, so treat them real well as if your first new born. SAAB can use the adv $$ to run better W programs, and it can turn around. Selling the sizzle is a good biz model but not for long run, need to sell the steak, so people felt they got the meat they had paid for. U can hire Cindy Crawford to serve u the steak but if u felt hungry 1 hr later ( the chinese food feeling ) , no amount of money will get u back to the same restaurant twice.
Saab existed at GM not because of the General’s management (ha), design (meh), or manufacturing (squeekiesqueekie).
No, Saab was able to hang on because of GM’s finance arm. Fully four of five Saabs which rolled over dealer curbs in last decade were lease specials. Ally, er, GMAC was the sole reason why Saab was able to appeal to…anybody. Properly lease priced, with a realistic residual (cough-terrible-cough), a Saab 9-3 would be hundreds more than a comperable car in its class (say a 328i or A4). But GMAC inflated the residuals in order to make Saabs price competitive. Of course, you (the bank) pay the piper upon turn-in.
Then, GM sold away the majority stake of their golden goose and lost control of the ability to use the bankers to help sell cars. That was the beginning of the end of Saab.
Today, GMAC, er, Ally is behind the APR offers and the lease advertised on the new 9-5. That was part of the agreement that dumped, er, sold Saab to Spyker, I’m sure (help with financing). However, without the churn-n-turn lease offers on the 9-3, there’s no way Saab can move enough metal to approach viability.
Maybe the Russian (mafia) will open a private Saab finance arm to keep this skit going for awhile. But on the face of it, as it stands, I really do not get it. Not from a retail point of view, anyway.
I think the Russians are in it because they will get access to bail out money from the Swedish treasury, sooner or later. They’ll loot the tax kitty and disappear in the middle of the night.
I, for one, really hope SAAB makes it, as more choice, more interesting cars and more diversity in the auto market is welcome by me…have had some friends with various SAABs over the years and always found them an interesting alternative to the traditional yuppie metal…
IMO, their marketing/advertising has sucked for many years…they should really double down as a ‘aggresively unique, no-nonsense sporty, exciting Euro-cool’ alternative to the mainstream luxury makes…embrace their performance and alternative history….but NONE of the “Born from Jets” crap or whatever “move your mind” drivel…using dynamic action shots, drifting shots, rally history shots and a GOOD tagline (which currently escapes me…unless they want to pay me).
BMW’s are already tagged as douchemobiles by many and is now advertising “Joy” (wtf?) instead of performance, M-B’s are usually far more expensive, Audi’s are too conservatively styled for some, Volvo is now a Chinese company, which doesn’t exactly scream prestige…there could be a real opportunity for SAAB to carve out a nice niche portion of the Euro-brand luxury market.
Here’s hoping…
Exactly. So why doesn’t Victor know this? With Volvo out of the way Saab should be selling like gangbusters, even if only to previous Swedish car buyers. I refuse to believe that people go from Saab to BMW. So where do they go? Audi is the only place I can think of. This is Victor’s to screw up.
They should also be really impressing upon people that Saab’s new Haldex AWD system is the shiz and finally gives Quattro a real competitor.
SAAB (or GM-the-parent) alienated their core buyers/fans with ever-increasing GM-ofication of the content, forcing them to stick with the old iron or turning over to other brands.
The new prospect customers, for whom all that past glory is nothing, are only seeing a product noticeably inferior on all fronts to established “prestige” brands, but with comparable sticker price.
Right now I do not see (nor very much interested in) SAAB surviving in a longer term.
When it looked like SAAB would die, the 9-3 2.0t could be had new for $19-22k
Tempting
You can still buy a brandnew 9-3 for $20k. The deals on new Saabs are crazy. And still they don’t sell…
http://www.saabsunited.com/2010/12/new-salem-saab-december-sale-stock-list.html
Or a 2010 9-5 Aero for <$40k
Went out to poke around the new 9-5 the other day. The dealership was still in early resurrection stage – no prices, no brochures, the sales guy even said they are not SAAB-Canada (which is not there yet), but rather SAAB-USA.
The car itself is had 0 saab familiarity in both cabin appearance and feel. And I owned or drove anything SAAB had on offer from 1980 99 to the current 9-3.
And “probably around 40 grand or so” for a 2-liter turbo car with (currently) zero cred?!
The last one I owned and could possibly consider buying again is a 04-05 9-5 Aero. And that is where SAAB ended for me.
Question: So rather than buy a used 2008 Saab 9-3 for around 17k, I can buy a brand new one for 20k?
For some strange reason I have grown quite fond of Saab’s (both classic and present models) recently. It’s probably because you don’t see them on every corner, their styling, and their determination to stay in production.
If you do your homework really well and choose carefully – you’ll get hooked. If you don’t – you’ll loathe the moment you bought one for the rest of your life.
Quality is erratic and very model/year/spec-dependent.
Character varies greatly as well, from sleepy and slow pre-1993 900OG with autobox to explosive 9000 2.3 Turbos or a 9-3Viggen.
Besides, the brand, despite all its recent troubles, has a great community of followers (saabnet.com and others).
My personal pick would be a 1993+ 9000 2.3T CSE/Aero with lowest possible mileage, non-TCS and 5-speed only.
Acubra: can you give more details about the quality being spec dependent?
I’ve had an odd yearning for an ’03 9-5 with the 3.0 turbo 6 engine, but have no idea how well they hold up. I’m aware of some of the common issues with the 2.3 four, but not the V6.
Spec-dependence applies to SAAB-9000 first and foremost. E.g. top bet – late 80s/earliest 90s 2.0L Turbo/NAs with manual everything. Worst bet would be a 3.0V6 and pre-93 2.3Turbos with TCS and AT due to soft cogs and weak timing chains, ATs not holding the torque and very temperamental TCS.
IMO the SAAB to go for are M2004-2005 9-5 with 2.3 and AT. I love MT, but manuals on 9-5 have less than perfect shift quality and because of the ECU settings & drive by wire are difficult to shift smoothly), although they are reliable. Aero looks great, but its ride is really rather stiff and 17 inch tires are expensive and make for somewhat nervous handling on grooved roads. Tire choice is critical with them as well. Standard Pirellis are pure crap with little rubber mixed in for color.
These 04-05 9-5s are cheap, still possible to find with low 5-digit mileage, and are the most reliable SAABs since prolly… early 90s, when all poverty-spec B202-engined 9000s were discontinued in EU.
By 04 they finally fixed the sludge problem, when sometime in late 2003 the 6th revision (that works well) of PCV arrived.
But if you really want V6 only… It is a mid/late 90s Opel (Euro GM) unit with timing belt (swap evey 60K) and a low pressure turbo fed from one bank.
Nice engine, quiet, lazy fat torque and quite reliable too, but I heard that due to rarity and to its Euro roots, parts are somewhat expensive.
Anyways, the best source for you to start with would be saabnet.com, the oldest online community in the US of A.
Check TrueDelta’s (http://www.truedelta.com/repair_histories.php) car repair history section for my ’02 9-5 wagon w/ the 3.0 V6. I’ve driven it 180,000+ miles, with no major engine issues (sludging) or surprises. Timing belt, idlers and water pump have been dutifully replaced at the 60K interval. The DI issues were expected, and I view repairs beyond 120K as my acceptance to drive into the realm of the unknown where repairs are concerned. Still less expensive than monthly payments for a similar replacement.
Caveat. . . I have an excellent SAAB indy mechanic in town.
Acubra’s take on the performance characteristics is right on. . .like the rest of the car, it excels at nothing, but is hardly disappointing, unless your focus is on cupholder utility.
Saab only sold 28,284 cars (retail). That is -29% compared to 2009.
In their pressrelease they primarily talk about “wholesale”. But it isn’t that difficult for Saab to stuff their importers and dealers with cars (they don’t want). Also Saab owns a lot of these importers, so they are only shifting car.
People are still not buying them.
Okay, everyone questioning whether or not to spring for one’a these close-out Saabs…
1. These things leave crater sized depreciation holes. Nothing depreciates faster or farther, not even C-tier Asian (Mitsi, Suzuki). This was true even before the GM BK, and it’s especially true now that Saab’s future is even more questionable.
2. As mentioned above, the quality of Saab is spotty. You run a 50-50 chance of getting a trouble free, dependable vehicle, or a headache of epic proportions. Electronics have been the bugaboo on these for the past two decades. Once you get a ghost in the wires, it’s almost impossible to to exorcise.
3. They’re not really Saabs any more. Oh, yes, the Saab fans will rush to point out some Saabishness, however these are at their core GM cars with substandard electronics, questionable fit and finish (9-3, I’m looking at you), and Cobalt-cheap plastics. For those who are considering the new Saab 9-5, remember it’s just another Epsilon II vehicle (ahem, Buick LaCrosse).
4. So ask yourselves, do you love the brand Saab more than you love your money? Because that $25k you plop down now for last year’s 9-3 is going to go up in ashes. Look at it this way…spend the same money on a Honda Accord, and in three or four years, you still have a dependable vehicle with a healthy trade-in or resale value. The Saab? Figure it will be worth less than half the Honda. Or less.
Please don’t pile on and call me a hater or anti-Saab biased. I’ve always loved the brand, and owned it myself. It’s already parted me from my money and my patience. And still, I’ve a soft spot for it. But in the end, one has to know when to let something go. And Saab’s time was several years ago. Long live Saab, Saab is dead.
So buying a used one might be a good deal then, assuming you can find a non-lemon?
Dom Herse – Tend to agree with you about the value of buying a Honda over a Saab. Have been toying with the idea of picking up a new 9-3 SportCombi or sedan w/. the 4 cyl and manual instead of a new Accord/CRV or Sonata if I could get a dealer to give one up at a firesale price. But then I think of the ridiculous depreciation hit and how difficult it would be to sell vs. a Honda.
That aside – would the reliability be lousy with that model in a 2010/2011?
Is the 9-3 just a rebadged Chevy Malibu (SportCombi = Chevy Maxx?)?
Is the turbo 4 a Saab engine or just a Saturn/GM engine?
Anything special about the 9-3 that differentiates it from the Chevy Malibu (same platform, right?).
Known engine/clutch/electrical problems with the current version of the 9-3?
Should I not even bother contacting any of these Saab dealers in the Northeast for pricing and just Pass Go and visit my Honda/Toyota/Hyundai dealer? Thanks.
@johnxyz
I would suggest you do your own digging – try wikipedia at least.
To your questions.
That aside – would the reliability be lousy with that model in a 2010/2011?
+++Anybody’s guess, but considering all the ons/offs, lay-offs, etc. – I would not hold my breath. Not in the longer run anyway.
Is the 9-3 just a rebadged Chevy Malibu (SportCombi = Chevy Maxx?)?
+++No.
Is the turbo 4 a Saab engine or just a Saturn/GM engine?
+++It was a SAAB engine in the 1997-2008 9-5, and it is a GM mill in the 2003+ 9-3.
Anything special about the 9-3 that differentiates it from the Chevy Malibu (same platform, right?).
+++They are totally and completely different.
Known engine/clutch/electrical problems with the current version of the 9-3?
+++You will be more or less safe with post 05 4-cylinder models and post 06 V6s. Search Saabnet.com, there are tons of wisdom there.
Partial ditto with Domestic Hearse.
My wife and I owned two 9-5’s between us, and while these had GM influence, were engineered before GM had assumed 100% of SAAB.
We loved the cars (my wife still has hers).
My 2000 9-5 was returned at lease end, and because the deals were so great I leased a 2003 9-3. By this time, GM was in full control, and it showed. Horrible quality — my 1970’s FIAT 128 even put it to shame — and beancounter penny-pinching that became more evident with each passing day, cheesy interior, a stereo that was so bad I finally just left it off and drove for two years without any sound system.
The current SAAB’s are just GM products, unfortunately, and I wouldn’t touch any GM product, much less pay Euro-preimium prices for a vehicle that is just pee-poor quality GM components (and product development decision making, i.e., beancounter corner-cutting) under the sheet metal.
I’d like to see SAAB survive and flourish, but I wouldn’t consider the brand again until they excise the GM influence and whether internally or from reputable sources of known quality.
I think Tommy Boy just answered all my questions. Can’t be much difference btwn a 2003 and a 2010 9-3….
Tommy Boy made the worst possible mistake – he bought the first model run of a European brand. NEVER do that. Always better wait for 1-2 years. And although I am not sure about 2010, but post 05-06 9-3s are not too bad at all.
There is still something about Saab. i may be optimistic (not quite as much as Victor Muller) but there is something different in driving a Saab versus driving a Malibu. Yes, there’s the Epsilon platform and Ecotec engine under the hood, heck even the radio used is from every other GM product, but what makes Saab, in its present form, so alluring that when TTAC post anything Saab related people come out asking about the possibilities of owning one with others arguing over GM influence and reliability issues.
There is no where near this much passion/angst/interest when the Hyundai Sonata is mentioned, which according to TTAC is the best four door sedan presently sold in the US for a reasonable value. Maybe it’s the appliance versus the automobile argument that keeps the Saab drivers coming back.
There is defiantly something Saab possesses that I can’t figure out, but i know it’s there (being a daily saab stalker on cars.com, myself).
The unique sum of its deficiencies made them appealing.
You learned to enjoy the turbo kick in the butt, the wonderful climate control/vent system and snow traction, to handle the torque steer, to educate yourself on maintenance and upkeep, to anticipate problems. The car would make you think and would reward in return. Even though it was a challenge at times.
Styling was dividing at best but hey, you would never loose it in the Costco parking lot. And could fill half of that Costco inventory in its trunk.
To me 9-5 was the last one of the breed.
Thanks for the spot-on reply.