Nate writes:
Hello gentlemen, I need some help with an upcoming car purchase. You may have covered my situation in the past, but here it is:
My wife currently drives a 2005 Saab 9-3 with about 60k miles on it. We owe around $8500 on the car. I’m doing my best to talk her into selling or trading before we have to pony up the cash for (another) inevitable repair, which from experience is never cheap on a Saab. I know nothing in my price range will drive quite like a 9-3, but my wife would prefer something very similar, with these qualifications:
Automatic transmission
Four doors
Sporty looks
A perky or down right powerful engine
2008 or newer
Less than $25,000I know my wife would prefer something that’s of a similar size to the 9-3, but I don’t think she would be averse to a larger sedan like a TSX or an Infinity. I would prefer something still under warranty or at least less expensive to fix. I’m leaning towards a Mazda 3, but I’m not sure she’s sold on it just yet. Is there anything else that stacks up? Thanks in advance.
Steve answers:
If she likes the car, keep it. I am saying this as a guy who kept my wife in dozens of vehicles over the years until ‘that moment’ when she said…
“Why can’t I have MY car.”
Your problem right now is repairs… and a negative balance if you decide to sell it. A small one if you sell it privately (maybe $1500 to $2000). A big one if you trade it in ($4000+).
You can reduce your repair expenses by opting for…
1) An independent garage that has a few good write-up’s from Saab enthusiasts.
2) Buying a Haynes manual and learning the basics of auto maintenance. Just keeping track of fluids and sounds can make an enormous impact on her long-term happiness.
3) Staying tried and true to the online Saab enthusiast groups.
This generation 9-3 has pretty good ratings here, here, and here. I think these models can actually be a good fit for many long-term owners. But if the change must be made I would recommend…
Volvo S60 – must be low mileage and make sure the tranny fluid gets changed if it has more than 30k.
Audi A4 – the V6 models have more grunt than the 1.8L and has more luxurious options as well.
Honda Accord – Leather seats, 4-cylinder… I would consider a 2-door with leather but if you have kids… go with a four door.
Get it from an owner who has the records. Skip the warranty with the Accord (05-07 are great years, just give it premium tires and a suspension upgrade and you’ll save $$$$$) and strongly consider a warranty for the other two. The Audi may have to bought as a CPO since their warranties aren’t transferable. But the Volvo CPO warranty IS transferable which means you can buy one of these from a private owner with more assurance.
One more thing. Audi dealers ditched a lot of new A4’s into their used car fleet back in 09′ and 10′ because they simply couldn’t sell them. Don’t be surprised if you find several loaded low mileage versions in the 25k price range. Buy/keep what makes her happy and good luck.
Sajeev Answers:
The “time value of money” needed to self-sustain this car is less than advantageous. Plus, from a cursory look on Edmunds, you are upside-down on the loan: the trade-in will hurt, probably. I’d still cut and run, but maybe lower your budget too?
Steve’s advice is spot on, which makes my job harder. Answering the “downright powerful” comment is the absolutely insane Buick LaCrosse Super: less torque steer than its Impala SS brother in a very affordable package. Too crude? Maybe grab a fully loaded Saturn Aura with the top drawer V6.
Forget it! I’m choosing a perennial favorite of the Best and Brightest: the Pontiac G8. It’s tough to get the V8 under the price cap, but it can happen. And the V6 is no slouch either. Not only does the G8 fit the bill in every metric, it blows the doors off many a competitor. Except in terms of outlandish style, luxury or prestige. Which, ’round these parts, also panders (Panthers?) to our “base” quite well. Epic win all around!
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder. In a rush? Don’t be shy about asking to cut in line.
Exuse me, off topic. Saab was closed today Tuesday because one supplier did not deliver, hadn’t got paid! How long will the corpse be walking?
SEVERAL suppliers plus Saab’s marketing firm haven’t received any payment, the later claiming they haven’t got paid since December and is now refusing to do any more work for Saab. Is it FINALLY over?
It’s nighttime over there now, and some of the reports are clearly secondhand, but several suppliers? The one that’s actually mentioned is GM, and it’s supposedly because they raised their parts prices in violation of contract.
Another secondhand source said that the main assembly line was working as normal today.
I guess this will take some more hours to sort out. I’m sure Edward, Bertel et al. will follow it up if there’s anything substantial.
Been a few years since I drove a 9-3 , I don’t see a big size difference. TSX is not really larger than the Saab whilst the Mazda 3 is smaller.
Both seem to be good choices although I question the wisdom of trading in a car that you are upside down on. For your best deal you need to separate these transactions. Pay off the Saab independently and sell it privately or trade it in.
Doing it any other way is going to mean you are not going to get a good deal, and selling a car privately with an existing loan on it is more difficult as most people down want to deal with the paperwork.
Slightly used Lexus IS350. The new IS is more of a feminine car than the old IS300 was.
You could also think about the Volvo S40/V50, if she likes the Swedish cars.
My spouse loves hers.
That’s the best option I’ve seen. Luxurious, reliable, not a bad looking car plus it’s insanely fast.
“Just keeping track of fluids and sounds can make an enormous impact on her long-term happiness.”
I assume he’s referring to the Saab.
Depends, are we talking about a sealed unit, or do I have to use my dipstick?
Keep the car and pay it off. Keep on driving it and make sure you maintain it well and on or ahead of schedule. It should last quite a long time when treated well. With you own car you know how well it was treated rather than buying a car from however knows owned it and how well they treated it.
If you have to get another car…stay away from used German cars unless you are pretty mechanically inclined. It’s not that they are less reliable than a Honda or Toyota – but their parts cars significantly more and labor prices are typically higher due to more hours of work needed for similar jobs. As noted above…a 4 cylinder automatic Honda Accord will give you the sporty-like handling of a Saab with much lower ownership costs. Get the Toyota Camry 4 cylinder if you want something more like the older Buicks (comfy and quiet).
If you think a current-gen Honda Accord in any way drives like a Saab 9-3, you have obviously never driven a Saab 9-3. The current Accord is a slovenly barge by comparison, despite wieghing less than some of it’s competitors. I get stuck with the things on occasion as rentals, and own a 2008 9-3. The Honda engine may be in theory similar in hp to the Saab 2.0T, but the reality is it is a torqueless thing that you have to rev the heck out of to motivate the car. Turbo for the win, as usual.
9-3s are very reliable in the long term. I am on several Saab forums, and most of the complaining is about squeaks and rattles. Very, very few mechanical issues. The ’03s and ’04s were challenging to thier original owners, but most of that was worked out under warranty when they were relatively new.
Not the most recent generation. A 2005 or older Accord still has decent handling with the 4 cylinder. The BMWish looking Accord is too large to be nimble anymore.
Turbos = win every time? A car’s balance is more important than a big engine or adding forced induction. I don’t know of your credentials in judging how well a car handles but I’ve been racing for 5 years now and instructing high performance driving for even longer than that. I’ve gotten to drive quite an assortment of students’ and friends’ cars over the years at a track at speed.
You are also a little misinformed about the powerband on a Honda 4 cylinder. They have torque but its peak is designed to hit at higher rpms giving you actually a larger and broad powerband. Where a torquey 4 banger will run out of breadth the Honda motor comes into its own and revs much higher and is more pleasing to rev. Plus Honda has built some great 4 cylinder engines that can reliably do it without worry of grenading (aside from poor tuning by modifications).
jaje, your first response didn’t seem to specify which Accord generation, so Kevin might well have thought you were referring to the current one, not the previous.
As for engine response, it’s going to be (literally) different strokes. The higher revving Honda engine might be more appealing for some, but in everyday traffic it might also just seem aurally tiring, especially with a manual shifter and a burnable clutch lining.
That said, I wouldn’t mind learning some track tricks from you!
When we owned our 1999 Stratus, I let my wife choose what she wanted, as she would be the primary driver. I had my 1996 Ranger at the time and was very happy with it. We looked and looked – she wanted something she could let the dog ride in. She chose our 2002 CR-V. Go figure. personally, I wouldn’t touch anything European and anything Japanese, Korean, European or American that is over-priced, regardless of the “driving experience”. Why? I’m cheap!
I am with you there! Owing $8500 on a 6 year old car is…unfortunate?
Buy new and inexpensive. If you have good credit, finance at a low rate. If not, pay cash as much as you can. For the writers criteria, I would go with a base Altima.
This generation 9-3 has pretty good ratings here, here, and here. I think these models can actually be a good fit for many long-term owners. But if the change must be made I would recommend
The good side is that this is an Epsilon with an Ecotec four at heart, so there’s some leverage to be had. On the other hand, it’s so very different from every other Ep-1 car that there’s precious little you can share, especially when it comes to electronics, control, suspension and trim: all the little stuff that will break.
Selling it is going to suck, so I would minimize the suckage and go with Sajeev’s suggestion of the Aura XR V6. The Saturn name will take a few bucks off the price, but it shares everything with the current Malibu save it’s skin, it drives small, and the interior is pretty nice in XR trim.
Another option would be the prior-gen Ford Fusion: even more reliable, drives even smaller, and depreciation takes a bite off of them, too.
“here, here, and here” – links?
CPO Cadillac CTS – meets all of the qualifications.
I can’t believe I’m saying this since it’s not a car I particularly like (but do respect, in a certain sense) – at least look at the ’08 Camry V6. Can’t speak for Nate, but in my experience, what people fleeing the more characterful brands with somewhat dodgier reliability records and high repair costs really want is a car that they won’t have to think about that still delivers comfort and a scosh of driving pleasure. While it doesn’t have much cachet in the way a near luxury or pure luxury brand might offer, the Camry otherwise fits the bill. And it moves pretty well with that V6.
Only in the SE trim, since we are talking about a SAAB replacement.
Ahem, Consumer Reports rates the ’08 V6 Camry below average for quality. Yes, we can point to Consumer Reports very flawed system for evaluating cars in the first place (e.g. not having statistically valid samples) but the ’08 Camry I’m willing to bet does not fall into that category.
The below average rating does not apply to the 2.4 4-banger model.
Toyota <> last forever quality with a rubber stamp. Now compared to an ’05 Saab, that’s a different story…
Sajeev – Agreed. I should have specified the SE trim. The SE is much more entertaining car to drive than one might expect of a Camry. It’s not an M3 or a Mustang GT by any strech of the imagination. But pretty decent nonetheless.
The only thing entertaining about the SE version is the wheels, and I think those sweet BBS rims (that happen to look a lot like Saab wheels) are optional anyway. Cmon, the SE looks ok but it doesnt have the feel of a Euro car.
If you want a car that you “dont have to think about”, then you dont need to waste time asking opinions here at all. Thats why they sell the Camry.
This has to be the least saab hating post in a while. I guess my goons got to Bertel.
I really don’t know why people say SAABs are expensive tor repair. Yes, my radiator cost $150. And that alternator, when it goes after 16 years, is going to be another few hundred. But that is the difference between driving a car into the ground — and just doing the necessary upkeep. And for what it’s worth, my radiator hoses are mostly original — and seem to be fine.
What matters with SAAB is finding a good independent.
The truly horrible city mileage (15 MPG in DC) is my only real complaint.
Price some of the electrics for reasons why SAABs are widely hated. Like a new stereo amp (pre 2007 models, Pioneer) with that fiber optic element in it, even the rebuilds are almost $200.
The NG900’s are reasonably reliable with good maintenance, but they really did cheap out on parts that wear out. I’m fairly handy with a wrench, so didn’t end up paying a lot for labor on my convertible. But parts were still very expensive to get/replace. And working on it really wasn’t a pleasant experience.
I fixed the tonneau cover motor assembly at home and saved $1000 in labor, but the part still cost me $800. The replacement HVAC fan switch wasn’t too bad, but shouldn’t have had to be replaced twice. Same goes for the thing that looks like a toilet paper roll that connects the heat adjustment knob to the car. I fixed a lot of electrical gremlins, but gave up trying to replace fog light bulbs after a couple of 3-hour attempts. Brakes were weird, the IAC valve was weird, the distributor was extremely vulnerable to damage, and there were so many other things that were built in a bafflingly odd way that I wondered what the engineers were smoking.
In the end, the car had a problem that cost far more to fix than it was worth. It wasn’t until I started shopping around for a replacement that I found other comparable cars were just as fun to drive and had better material quality. GM really did Saab a disservice in that regard. Yes, they’re interesting cars and have a personality unlike others. But you’ve got to be a committed Saab owner to put up with a lot of what the car brings to the ownership experience.
As a replacement that has a bit of character and meets the other requirements, I’d look for a used Mazda6 in good shape, a Legacy GT, G35, or some form of Acura. The German cars are high-maintenance, although CPO is an option if you want to go that route.
good luck!
According to the 2011 Consumer Reports, the 05 9-3 has “worse than average” reliability including “mucj worse than average on suspension, body inteigrity, and power equipment, and “worse than average” reliability on body hardware, brakes, climate system, and drive system. It’s also in CR’s list of “used cars to avoid.”
But I’m thinking the longer you hang onto it, the less depreciation per year you will have. I’d advise checking truedelta.com, for details on the reliability (you can get some idea of what problems it’s likely to have, when), or saab enthusiast websites. 60k isn’t much, and maybe you can get a few relatively trouble free years.
Steve makes a good suggestion with the Volvo S60. I have one as my daily driver, now with 120K miles on the clock and zero issues. It fits all the criteria that you listed: It’s still very perky with the 2.5T engine and automatic transmission, it’s a four door with interesting styling, and it’s been produced forever so any bugs will have been well worked out by the ’08 model year. 30 MPG or more on the highway, low-pressure turbo so there’s no lag or torque steer. It has supremely comfortable seats and has authentic Swedish heritage, which given that your wife drives the Saab, might appeal to her.
I changed my tranny fluid at 118K miles, but ideally it should be changed out at 75K or so. Use synthetic oil, and you’ll be in very good shape. And I would change the tires if you find one still on the OEM Contis; I’m running Michelin Primacy MVX4s on mine and the change in ride and handling is very apparent. Fantastic tires.
I want to love the Mazda3, but it’s just too much of a ruster. I’m constantly amazed by the amount of corrosion I see on the last-gen vehicles. Combine that with the predecessor Protege’s rotting wheel arches, and I just don’t trust these things if you live somewhere where snow/salt is present.
Unless the Saab is a real money pit in terms of repairs, I have trouble seeing the justification in trading in for another car when you haven’t even paid this one off. If you’ve got a 6-7 year old car that you still owe more than $8k on, it might be time to re-evaluate your car buying priorities – “a down right powerful engine” should probably be pretty far down on your list of criteria at this point, and spending $25k on a 3-4 year-old car might not be the smartest move, especially given the fact that a car that still costs 25k at that age probably won’t be that cheap to maintain, either.
Subaru Legacy GT fits all of your requirements perfectly.
Other than catastrophic turbocharger failure. The Legacy GT forums are littered with stories of turbo failure due to oil starvation. Dealer fix is ~$2800. Doing it yourself, which isn’t terribly difficult, still takes $1000 in parts assuming you can source a used turbo.
MPG in Subaru is below average (all that weight and transfer loss from AWD). Expect mid to low 20’s if you take it easy.
Quentin, then take the 3.6 H6.
jaje, the difference is easily taken care of by saving on maintenance cost (as compared to a European car).
I second the Legacy *but* I will say that if you want just pure reliability a turbo motored car is always going to be more of a dice roll since you have more mechanical components waiting to fail. While you can read a lot of complaints on the forum it doesn’t mean that all the motors are going to have problems-I read about complaints about pretty much every car out there but the vast majority of cars are fine. Subaru has supposedly made the newer turbo motors somewhat more reliable, though again, not really the best pick if you want rock solidness.
So I would actually recommend the regular Legacy in the nice Premium or Limited trims-it’s not quite as sporty as the GT but the 6-cylinder is almost as powerful and the Legacy actually offers really good mileage compared to the other Subaru models because it’s available with a CVT in the H4 trim. The Legacy 2.5 in Premium only runs $20995 and it gets 23/31 for fuel economy which is pretty damned good considering that you’re getting AWD. Too bad it drops to 18/25 on the 6 cylinder.
The only thing I would be a little bit worried about with the Legacy is the actually common issue of shudder at highway speeds, so I’d make sure that you test the car at higher highway speed before purchasing it. There are complaints that it can still happen even after a clean test drive but at least Subaru has been trying to address it.
Personally though if you’re still upside down by $8500 on a car you bought 6 years ago you shouldn’t be buying a new car. Get your finances in order and learn to drive a cheap and reliable car. Just being honest here…you really shouldn’t ever still be owing money 6 years into a car purchase. I’d probably just drive a used newer model year Camry SE or something similar-they’re cheap and damned reliable.
“Other than catastrophic turbocharger failure. The Legacy GT forums are littered with stories of turbo failure due to oil starvation. Dealer fix is ~$2800. Doing it yourself, which isn’t terribly difficult, still takes $1000 in parts assuming you can source a used turbo.”
I wouldn’t say “littered”. Most LGT turbo failures are due to infrequent oil changes. Just find a well maintained one with records of regular oil changes. They are also finicky about certain synthetics (e.g. they devour Mobil 1 for some reason), so a little research on these cars goes a long way.
Well I figured he was going from one turbocharged car to another so I figured he could accept the risk. I am a regular over at LegacyGT.com and many of the turbo failures are attributed to the old banjo bolt screen on the oil supply for the turbo. Many owners have removed this screen to prevent oil starvation and Subaru eliminated it on later versions of the car. But yes, I own a 2.5i and it is not plagued with as many issues as the forced induction cars are. There are many more risks with owning a turbocharged engine.
I gotta say I’m actually quite surprised that Steve is recommending an Audi. For all the BMW bashing, I wasn’t expecting the Audi plug.
Either way it’s nice to see a change up! :o)
But if you do get an Audi, a 1.8T with the ECU upgrade (from APR or similar) will easily be peppier than the V6.
Just avoid the early 2.0T models. Carbon buildup on intake ports and high pressure fuel pump cam follower failure are very real issues with the early 2.0T A4 models.
Also, if you’re looking at a Mazda3, how about the ’09 Mazda6 V6? Granted, it’s gotten a bit big, but no more so than an Accord. I had an ’03 Mazda6 with the V6 and the 5 speed manual. That was a great car. I haven’t really had any experience with the current model, but know others who have them and are very happy with the cars.
I’ve got an 04 Mazda6s with the V6 that I bought new in Decemebr 04 for much less than $25k (70% of $25k actually), and I still love it today. Sure I’ve had to lay out some money for wear items and there have been a couple of loose trim pieces that I had to reattach ($12 for solvent and glue), but no oulays for major repairs, and it is still a blast to drive. Can’t speak to the fun factor with the 2nd gen Mazda6, but my first gen Mazda6 is easily the most enjoyable car I have owned. By the way, I have tracked mileage since the first fill-up the day after I bougth it, and I have gotten 22 mpg combined drivign with high 20’s to low 30’s on long trips. So, it seems there wasn’t much of a penalty for getting the V6 instead of the 4 cylinder engine.
The Mazda 3 drives a *LOT* better than the 6. To be plainly honest I didn’t find the 6 any better to drive than a Camry-in the corners it was just as floaty to me and the transmission and motor work together a lot better in the Camry and Accord (though I was driving the 4 cylinder 6-I assume the V6 is less underpowered). The 3 is wonderful to drive though-wish that the base motor was less anemic but the suspension is fantastic.
I think the 6 is a nice car but I really don’t think it really deserves it’s reputation as a sporty car-to me it seemed just as cushy and floaty as anything else out there.
For $25k, if one is diligent enough he/she can find a brand new midsize sedan that meets all these requirements, though you may have to stick to the 4-cylinder version.
Otherwise, the Aura XR is a great suggestion on the value end.
Well heck if the OP is ok with dropping down a little in size you could get a nicely equipped 2012 Ford Focus hatchback for less than $25,000.
Dan I am not even sure the new Focus is really smaller inside that the Saab, they were never all that big to start with. I am also pretty sure he can find a Fusion V6 for that price as well, although I am quoting from car ads in the paper, which may not be reliable. Either way, $25k is a good budget, tons of choices new or used out there.
Because of the (as Jack Baruth described it) Audi-esqe interior I may end up comparing the Focus (in a year or so when I’m shopping) to cars that are technically one size class above it to see how much space advantage there really is. That and the Focus is actually available as a hatch (which I love, a true wagon would be even better.)
You are upside down on the loan. Which means you’re gonna have to pay to make this car go away. Not financially the wisest move.
The dealer will probably end up rolling your negative equity into your new loan, or you’re going to have to come up with cash if he can’t get a lender to go over 100% of the next car’s loan value.
I have the same generation Saab. It broke last week (again). Tremendous clunking and clanging noises going over any uneven pavement or bumps…Ahhh! Broken coil spring.
At least Saab knows about the problem and they’re having a “quiet recall” said our dealership — ours has to be fixed. But even if your 9-3 isn’t broken, you can request the free re-install.
The 9-3 has been – by far – the least dependable, most frustrating new car I’ve ever owned. It has a few redeeming qualities: great ice and snow handling, for instance. But overall, I could never recommend the car to anyone.
Our situation is better: it’s paid for – zero payments. And as long as we don’t have a major out-of-pocket malfunction, it’s cheap to drive (good mileage, I’ll give it that). We’re hanging on, crossing our fingers, looking covetously at the CTS coupe, biding our time.
The answer is of course to keep the car.
At 60 kmiles is is just past the running-in mode.
From the experiences over here, this car is better than average.
My own experience: 71.000 mi driven so far; only repairs until now is the washer pump. Normal wear are 8 tyres and a complete set of brake pads.
Work hard to pay off the Saab, and then drive it for another 60K. Enjoy the freedom of not having a car payment…it’s addicting. The long-term repair bills that you may incur will never equal a new car payment on a monthly basis.
Sajeev, did you not pay ANY attention to what the guy asked for? He said she MIGHT go for something a little larger “like a TSX” but wanted it to be the size of a 9-3, or close.
Lacrosse? G8? Neither are remotely in the same size class.
Thought: Volvo S40, V50?
EChid: Why yes, I did pay “ANY” attention that they “MIGHT” go for something a little larger!
Since Steve already covered that, and I’m not here to be Steve’s yes-man, I focused on the comment “down right powerful engine”, and everything mentioned here do not cut the mustard. Why settle for less?
They could very well want a G8.
Oh, and judging by Nate’s comment below (Jeep Grand Cherokee), it appears that I was closer to their “Truth” than any of us expected.
2008 Pontiac G8 GT, or if you want “perky” base G8 with the luxury package.
Automatic transmission – check
Four doors – check
Sporty looks – check
A perky or down right powerful engine – check
2008 or newer – check
Less than $25,000 – check
’nuff said.
Mazda 6, Acura TSX or Volvo S40… these are the vehicles I test drove alongside the Saab a few years back. Wife loved the handling, feel and power of the Saab but couldn’t stand the buttons-gone-wild dash layout. With the Mazda you might need the Speed 6 AWD version and an S60 in the Volvo camp to get the power you desire. On the Acura side stepping up to the TL gives you the power boost, but its a bigger car. As someone else mentioned the Hondas are high reving and generally torque-less in 4 cylinder form. If you can afford it the Infiniti G35/37 have all the power you need and then some, look for an off lease model and you’ll be thrilled I bet. I current drive the VW version of the A4 (aka Passat) and it has not been a joy to own, so I’m not going to recommend it, but with a ECU chip it outruns the V6 version while getting 30 mpg. However since your upside down it you should really hold onto the Saab and repair as needed till your rightside up on the loan, then sell. Even a $2000 repair bill beats the payments on a new ride, especially since (currently) you’ve got nothing to put down on the next vehicle.
….I current drive the VW version of the A4 (aka Passat)………..
About the only thing the current Passat and A4 have in common is the basic displacement of the engine. After that, even the other engine specs are different. The A4 engine has 25% more torque.
The Passat ride and handling is getting softer every year to appeal to Camry buyers. The A4 is athletic, even more so with the sports package.
$25k will put you in a brand new VW GTI that is very Saab-like in driving feel. Get the 5-door, stay away from the pricey options, and get the extended warranty if you are so concerned.
I forgot to mention though that my first answer is to just keep the Saab, esp if his wife likes it anyway. He will be worlds ahead even if a couple things break. People are so afraid of repairs, they need to learn more about thier cars instead of just running to the stealership every time they have a problem.
Excellent choice!
As a former owner of a MKV GTI, a 4 door GTI is an excellent option. FWIW though, a GTI’s ride will be a bit starchier than the Saab’s.
True… the only Saab I ever rode in was a Viggin and an Aero wagon. Maybe a GLI, or a regular Jetta with the 2.0T would be better if ride is a concern.
I was gonna say G8 too!
More realistically, could you keep the Saab one more year and double up payments on it? If you could spare $600-800 total a month you’d have it free and clear in a year or less. I doubt in that time you’d run into too many repairs. If you do, shop the repairs around. We had a problem with the wife’s Camry a couple of years ago and got a quote of more than $2500 from the dealer. She and I both got on Yelp.com and found about a dozen highly rated independent shops in the area, then made some calls. We ended up getting it done for about half that amount AND came away with a trusted mechanic for future work.
Then get the G8.
No way! According to people on this site, a Camry will never need a $2500 repair!! LOL
No way! According to people on this site, a Camry will never need a $2500 repair!! LOL
Who here said that? Any manufacturer can make a car here and there that is unreliable or expensive to maintain. But it’s an odds game. Heck, I even bought a ’10 Mustang, a car that’s “supposed” to be reliable. The thing was a nightmare and was ultimately bought back by Ford under the lemon law. As a result, I personally am unlikely to buy another FoMoCo product. (It’s possible I could be talked into buying a used Ranger or Panther as a beater/winter car, but I digress.) But does my experience mean that it’s a myth that Ford now has a better than average reliability record? Of course not.
Oh I’m sorry… maybe I need to explain sarcasm?? Or irony??
I am well aware that ANY car can have problems. I just found it ironic when so many people wrote it to recommend a Camry for the reliability and that post about shopping around for a mechanic mentioned a Camry repair. :) Lighten up.
Oh, and BTW, Ford as a whole doesnt have a stellar rep for reliability either, just a stellar rep for cheap parts and labor. I still want a Mustang GT badly!
I, too, vote for keeping the damned thing and paying it off, despite the potential headaches. Maybe then, next time, she’ll see the wisdom of plain ol’ Honda Accord which may not be sexy, fast or loaded with toys, but it WILL last nearly forever and be cheap to maintain….
A 2008 Acura TSX should do nicely. My 2006 has been trouble free except for one failed relay which the dealer diagnosed and fixed rapidly for $150 (mostly labor). I’ve put over 73,000 miles on it so far and still enjoy driving it. Saabs do not age gracefully like this car is doing for me.
What was the relay? Passenger side power lock servo is the only thing to have gone wrong on our 2004 TSX after similar miles. After a few weeks, it started working again. Great car.
I second the 2012 Focus. Probably similar in size to the old 9/3, and fully optioned will still feel like a step up.
Although in my experience woman care more about the badge than men even do, so getting her into a Ford from a Saab might be hard. She might miss the whole “I drive a european car” shtick.
You didn’t mention if you’re presently having problems with the car and from what I gather you’re not. If that’s the case and you’re worried about future repair costs take a grand or two of that 25k and replace wear items… ya know… to hedge your bets.
If your decision to drop the Saab is set in stone you can get a lot for 25k. Off the top of my head, an Infiniti G sedan, Acura TL, Mazdaspeed 6 or Pontiac G8.
You could even get a new V.W. GTI and possibly, if you can wait a few months the all new Focus ST.
Where ARE all these undependable Saab 93s?? I have two ’03s, the diesel with over a 135K on it and theyve NEVER been on a hook. OK, the diesel had to be towed once to a warm garage cuz the dumass owner had 100% bioD in it and it got unexpectedly near freezing.
Maybe its just too much “goin to the dealer”. Ive been fixin these things since the ’70s. These latest ones havent even had crank sensor or fuel pump issues yet. The engines have been bullet-proof with 5K Mobil1 oil changes. Transmissions have been great. A lot of problems relate from accidental electric soakings or losing the last key. Brakes here and there. But NOTHING like the torment I see in other brands after 80-100K. Especially with everbodies V6s ultimately.
Hey guys,
Great advice as always. However, it’s been about a month since I sent this in, and we’ve resolved our dilemma in the mean time. As it turns out, there was a very simple solution: spend more money. My wife ended up doing a 180, and decided she wanted an SUV. After shopping around the dismal used selection, we opted to buy new. We went with a new Grand Cherokee Laredo, with leather, nav, heated seats and pretty much everything else save a sun roof. We managed to find a dealer who would get us close enough to payoff on the Saab and bought the Jeep for around $33k.
The new Pentastar V6 has plenty of power, the ride and handling are excellent and the interior is as luxurious as anything we’d find in an Infiniti or Acura. All in all, we’re extremely satisfied with the Jeep. It was more than I wanted to spend, but we plan on paying this one off. Thanks again for your advice, we didn’t even come close to following it, but hey, we’re happy!
Nate
Congrats on the new ride! It’s a great looking car, and from the reviews, it sounds like it rides pretty smooth over the urban jungle. I got to check it out at an auto show and the interior was better than I expected. Hopefully, it proves to be more reliable than the Saab, especially since you went over your original $25k budget.
I like the new GC, they look really good, nice proportions.
@Jolly — $7k over budget is nothing if it makes the wife happy. :)
@mnm – you are completely right about the budget. The wife’s happy, we have a nice ride, we can manage the payments, everyone wins!
@jolly – I can’t stress how impressed I am with the new JGC. I used to work at a Jeep dealer as a cleanup guy. I drove countless Grands, and the 2011 is in an entirely different class than even the 2010 models. The interior is the biggest surprise save for the new engine. I can’t imagine why Jeep waited this long to put a V6 like the Pentastar in the Cherokees. If only we can get it in the Wranglers next. Oh, and as an aside, we’re averaging 20mpg. I know that’s nothing compared to some sedans or hybrids, but for a 5000+ lb SUV w/ 290 hp that ain’t bad.
Nicely done, Nate.
Hi Nate, congrats on the new car. I did not see your reply earlier. I still would have kept the car you had and paid it off first. I am married more than ten years now, I know what you mean. That said there have been some times both my wife and I have had to say to each other, we might be able to afford that, but it’s not a good idea. I’ve known guys give in to their wives, get in bad financial shape, then get divorced, and then be in really spectacularly bad financial shape. Please don’t take that in the wrong way. So recommend you keep this car until it is paid off and then some. My wife likes new (to us) cars pretty often, but we’ve always paid them off first before selling. I also am lucky to live close to work, I usually ride a bicycle. In fact twice in our marriage we only had one car for us and our kids. I now have a second car from ’67 more as a luxury/hobby. Anyway, good luck, does not seem you got a bad deal on the new car either, just break the cycle with this one. Do better preventative maintenance and at least sell it after it’s paid for if your wife really wants a new one sooner than financially makes sense.
I’ve known guys give in to their wives, get in bad financial shape, then get divorced, and then be in really spectacularly bad financial shape. Please don’t take that in the wrong way.
I can testify to that happening, but in my case I did prove she was the problem by life immediately getting better (including finances.) Divorce is when you decided you’d be happier without her and minus half your possessions.
Family sedans are just not fun. I don’t care if it’s an Accord, Camry “SE”, Mazda6, whatever. They are all equally boring.
A4s and BMW 328s are great fun.. but you’re trading a reliability risk for a reliability risk. There’s just no way around it. Unless you can afford to sell the Audi or BMW when the CPO warranty is out, I would suggest heading to the Infiniti dealer. The G is fast and fun, and it will run circles around any “sport” Camry. G35/37s also seem to last longer with less effort than anything else in the class, including the less fun and rather cramped IS350.
You may want to take a look at an Infiniti forum and take a look at G35 oil consumption issues. Anything with the VQ35HR from 2005+ can have massive oil consumption around 60-80k miles. Infiniti has been replacing the engines (quietly) with this issue that happen under the extended warranty, but owners who run into this problem out of warranty are SOL.
This crossed the G35 off my list when I was looking for a sport sedan. I ended up with an E46 330i with a 6MT which is a car that has the potential to have many small irritating things go wrong, but whose engine and manual gearbox are very durable with proper (and preventative) maintenance.
Bottom line is the TSX and IS are the best sport sedans for someone looking for no-fuss reliability. Infiniti isn’t much better than the Germans overall in terms of reliability, if at all.
The Acura TSX Sport Wagon was on my shopping list until I realized that the nearest dealer was over 100 miles away. Honda dealers will service Acuras but won’t touch them for warranty related work.
2011 Sonata SE 2.0 turbo? Ticks in $95 above $25K though, but brand new with a 10/100K warranty.
Either that or the mentioned CPO TSX or G35/37. A CPO TL slots there too if you want to gamble the largely-resolved trans problems.
I second the new Sonata. Or maybe a Suzuki Kizashi if you’re enjoying the “Can’t find a dealer to save my life” moment. Fusion SE? Lots of great sedans for under $25k….
Nate has a problem. He owes $8K+ on a 6-7 year old car. That was a mistake to get into a loan like that. He clearly bought more car than he could afford. Now with the car only having 60K miles he wants to sell it and get a car for $25K. Do you see what the problem is? It’s not the car. His new car will really be about $30K car considering he is upside down on the loan. That’s a lot of repair bills. He’s about to get himself right back into the same cycle. So he really should keep the car and start caring for it for about another 30K miles.
Your sage advice comes too late. He’s already purchased a new Grand Cherokee… the cycle continues.
I feel used. How the hell does GC fall within the criteria listed above?
How about – I can’t pay off my Swedish meatball and I really want to buy something, anything, to get me deeper into debt, preferrably at unreasonable fuel consumption levels?
This comes under the heading of “keep Mama happy”. The Saab was the wife’s car, wife decided she wanted a Jeep. Husband buys wife a Jeep. Harmony reigns.
I don’t get where the extreme fear of having to spend money to repair a car comes from, you could replace the entire drivetrain in a Saab 9-3 for the first years depreciation on a thirsty SUV. If you are bored with the car or your needs change that is one thing, but spending more money to “save” money makes no sense at all.
Hey guys, like I stated above, the lady changed her mind. Anyone who’s married knows that happens multiple times every hour. As for the concerns about my finances, I appreciate the advice but we actually came out in decent shape. We broke even with the Saab on trade in, and got a vehicle we absolutely love for $2k less than the sticker price. As far as MPGs go, we’re averaging 20, and the wife drives 3 miles to work. Round trip. Not an issue.